The Robert Mueller Investigation

[retread 2951]

^ It's interesting to think about. Like elguapo says, part of the reason is probably Putin's ego. He doesn't want to be sassed, even if it's fake.

Feels kind of disturbing to try to enter DOTUS' mind tho.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

“Volume 2: Obstruction of Justice” is brutal and I’m only halfway through. 

[TexArcher 37508]

23 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i'm just saying for the sake of his narrative + political theater, it seems to make sense that he should act angry, but never has (at russia). 

This is true.  I can only assume it's a feature of his narcissism.  On some level, he feels like he doesn't have to even try to hide his wrongdoings from the little people.  Hell, he wants us to know that he's a piece of shit and we can't touch him for it.

It actually makes me feel sorry for his supporters.  I've never seen people prouder of being a bunch of rubes in the hands of a con man who isn't even that good at being a con man.

Edited April 18, 2019 by TexArcher

[bolverk 29399]

31 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

So let’s say there wasn’t people getting in the way of Trump obstructing justice, so then what? We just live with tyranny and deal with it?  

Seems like a horrible legal defense. 

Here's something fun to think about: Those people, BEST PEOPLE!!! actually were his A team. Most of them are gone now and have been replaced by C and D team level turds. Who's there now to rein in his worst impulses?

Also, I'd like to hear more about the MISSING EMAILS!!! and other communications that were deleted in an effort to impede the investigation (aka obstructing justice).

Finally, I'd like to point out that we now know that (according to a reporter on NPR - I haven't read the report) 14 separate investigations have been spun out to separate jurisdictions and the topics of 12 of them were redacted. It sounds like this is far from over. It looks like Trump may die a death of a thousand cuts rather than one fell swoop.

[UpperWestside 6136]

50 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

 

 

26 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

eh, maybe he will and i'll be happy to have some closure on the idiocy.

There will be no closure and that's exactly what Dotard wants. It's a neverending shitshow that is a reality-style presidency. 

This is how he has acted his entire adult life. Everything is chaos with him. It is weird to rational and sane human beings, but to him it is just another day at the office. I would not be shocked if his last day on earth is spent on the shitter tweeting out hatred towards Hillary, McCain and everyone else on his bizarro-world, Game of Thrones inspired, Arya-style list of people he went after. He will never stop with his craziness. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by UpperWestside
Wasn't trying to quote Icono.

[henrygandorf 29174]

2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Here's something fun to think about: Those people, BEST PEOPLE!!! actually were his A team. Most of them are gone now and have been replaced by C and D team level turds. Who's there now to rein in his worst impulses?

Also, I'd like to hear more about the MISSING EMAILS!!! and other communications that were deleted in an effort to impede the investigation (aka obstructing justice).

Finally, I'd like to point out that we now know that (according to a reporter on NPR - I haven't read the report) 14 separate investigations have been spun out to separate jurisdictions and the topics of 12 of them were redacted. It sounds like this is far from over. It looks like Trump may die a death of a thousand cuts rather than one fell swoop.

yeah, cnn was discussing the 12 open cases just now.  possible (but unlikely imo) that one of those would be don, jr or some family.  but still could be close ties to trump.  1/2 unredacted cases was michael cohen.

[Biff Tannen 45492]

When listening to Barr's press conference, did anyone else hear Principal Anderson in Billy Madison when he was admitting to the public he was the Revolting Blob?  Seriously, go listen.  It's uncanny.

[troph 24562]

17 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

“Volume 2: Obstruction of Justice” is brutal and I’m only halfway through. 

yeah vol 1 is go team trump, Russian had a systematic war on the USA and despite lots of smoke the special prosecutor cannot conclude a conspiracy.  but it's clearly right on the line.

haven't gotten to vol 2 but that's where most of the quotes are coming from.  that's we knew he was a crook second chapter.

and what's also interesting is exactly how limited this investigation was - Trump wasn't exactly even a target - it was Russia interference and the folks who were indicted/plead guilty plus Session.  those named individuals were obviously tied to the campaign but this was not a Trump witch hunt it was an investigation into an act of war.

I'm still on vol 1...

[GRHorn 105]

2 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

ok so here's my new question.

near the beginning of the report, it's established as fact that the russian govt attacked our election.

and since our president keeps claiming "no collusion", that means the russians acted alone.

so why aren't we at fucking war right now?

i mean, i know this isn't nam, but am i wrong?  there are rules here.

I think the level of influence it had was negligible and this kind of shit happens all the time in international intrigue circles. It’s just our first time to experience it. 

[TwiceHorn 31269]

54 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

I'm pretty sure I understand why Trump isn't furious at Russia.  Putin's meddling helped Trump win the White House; even if no one from Trump's camp was involved, they probably knew and definitely benefitted.  And Trump admires Putin and is dumb enough to think it's mutual.  He's not pissed at Putin because in his mind that's his buddy and his business partner.  Part of why Trump won't release his tax returns is because they'll show gains from hedge funds that are most certainly profitting in Russia.  And Trump has probably laundered money for Russian oligarchs who are loyal to Putin.  Etc.  He's not mad at Putin because he can't be and he doesn't want to be anyway. 

As for why isn't the average Republican pissed off at Russia?  Because Fox News hasn't told them to be.

A lotta truth.  But the simpler, core fact is, Trump has depended on Russian money (and their lack of investment diligence because it's more laundering than investment anyway), for 20-25 years.  He loves him some Russians, and probably has no idea that he's their money laundering apparatchik, just like he has little idea that he's their political stooge. 

He thinks they're great because he thinks they think he's great.  He's pretty much wrong all around.  He's a useful idiot.

[TexEx15 17467]

1 hour ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Because we have weeded out the RINOs save for a few that are remaining. Unfortunately, their ranks were added by Romney but they’re nearly extinct. I’d rather have a Democrat that we can attack than a RINO. Republicans punch back and no longer apologize for everything like RINOs did. That’s why has the highest approval rating amongst Republicans in recent memory.

That’s cute that you think Trump is a republican.  That mother fucker is whatever the hell advances his cause and the republican voters made an easy mark in 2016.  If you support Trump then by all means but don’t claim that RINO bullshit.

[BrickHorn 18189]

4 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

That’s cute that you think Trump is a republican.  That mother fucker is whatever the hell advances his cause and the republican voters made an easy mark in 2016.  If you support Trump then by all means but don’t claim that RINO bullshit.

Mojo nailed it.  Trump is not a Republican.  He’s a Bananarepublican. 

[TornACL 7675]

The real RINOs are the old guard Republicans who are now mostly long gone, either through death or through their systematic replacement by pot banging idiots. 

The party has changed, it's not that they weeded out the fakes. The fakes took over. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by TornACL

[troph 24562]

59 minutes ago, retread said:

And these long delays aren't helping the House Ds get the truth out there. Mueller should be testifying next week (week after at the latest).

agreed, time to move up the pace.  Mueller didn't pursue a face to face with Trump because of the delays, I think the Congress should move swiftly and as thoroughly as possible but not drag it out.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

agreed, time to move up the pace.  Mueller didn't pursue a face to face with Trump because of the delays, I think the Congress should move swiftly and as thoroughly as possible but not drag it out.

They're going to drag it out. He's not getting impeached, so the next best thing to do is extend it to as close to the election as possible. Our governmental checks and balances have failed, so they've got to play the game within the rules that have been set. It's purely political theater. I hope they play dirty, but they're terrible at it relative to the GOP.

Edited April 19, 2019 by BradInATX

[Gil Bang 25897]

8 hours ago, Jhawk said:

That is correct.  I can't believe it.  You break a law you break a law. There is no intent aspect to it.  If trump broke a law he broke a law, regardless of intent.  Same with lying under oath.  If you do it you committed perjury.  That is against the law.  Let's apply the penalties of law.  Our whole legal and judicial system is built on precedent.  We are ignoring precedent for some and not for others.  That is what they call..... a bad precedent to set.

You're a fucking idiot.  
 

You kill a man, it could be Murder in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd degree, or not murder at all, depending on intent.  

[retread 2951]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

agreed, time to move up the pace.  Mueller didn't pursue a face to face with Trump because of the delays, I think the Congress should move swiftly and as thoroughly as possible but not drag it out.

After 2 years of exhaustive investigation, there's probably not going to be a Butterfield-Watergate moment where a big surprise is revealed, but let's get everything out there crystal clear.

[TexEx15 17467]

It’s so ironic that the party of “law and order” are draping themselves in the excuse that you can’t be indicted for a crime if you didn’t know it was illegal.

[Eskimohorn 5613]

Anyone who claims that the report doesn’t find that trump obstructed justice either (1) hasn’t read it, (2) is a trumpkin who can’t read so good, or (3) is a lying troll. 
Weve got a straight up criminal in the White House boys! Yeah we already knew that but now there’s irrefutable proof.

Yeah, its pretty obvious that the Dudley Do-Rights under Trump refused to do illegal activities, then testified to that to cover their asses. The others who did commit illegal acts, lied about it, destroyed evidence and/or continue to lie about it.

We’ll learn more about the latter in the unredacted version and in future indictments. The report will be the gift that keeps on giving. It has exceeded my expectations on the level of corruption and incompetence. The details are staggeringly bad for Trump.

What Trump has is an emerging authoritarian apparatus, state-run media for the 30% (40% of likely voters), a stable Obama economy, emerging left-wing dumbfuckery, GOP voter suppression, and Russia.

[henrygandorf 29174]

did anyone else just watch hogan gidley on anderson cooper?  that was great tv.

also in his open (40 min ago) he was reading through sections of the report, and got to the conversation trump had with don mcgahn (the "why are you taking notes" part), and the back and forth was so funny that you could hear jeffrey toobin cracking up off camera.  i bet it's been quite the long day over there.

[Biff Tannen 45492]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

did anyone else just watch hogan gidley on anderson cooper?  that was great tv.

also in his open (40 min ago) he was reading through sections of the report, and got to the conversation trump had with don mcgahn (the "why are you taking notes" part), and the back and forth was so funny that you could hear jeffrey toobin cracking up off camera.  i bet it's been quite the long day over there.

Yep.  Gloves are starting to come off, which is nice.  Cooper basically told him to STFU.

[David Dennison 18655]

4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

did anyone else just watch hogan gidley on anderson cooper?  that was great tv.

also in his open (40 min ago) he was reading through sections of the report, and got to the conversation trump had with don mcgahn (the "why are you taking notes" part), and the back and forth was so funny that you could hear jeffrey toobin cracking up off camera.  i bet it's been quite the long day over there.

Yep. The White House is not handling this well. They know how bad today was.

[Celery Man 20884]

6 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

did anyone else just watch hogan gidley on anderson cooper?  that was great tv.

also in his open (40 min ago) he was reading through sections of the report, and got to the conversation trump had with don mcgahn (the "why are you taking notes" part), and the back and forth was so funny that you could hear jeffrey toobin cracking up off camera.  i bet it's been quite the long day over there.

i watched that while sifting through this thread and it's all just one big stupid thing isn't it.

[henrygandorf 29174]

i'm sorry, i'm lazy, but if someone can find the mcgahn interview part about taking notes, it was hilarious.

[David Dennison 18655]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

i'm sorry, i'm lazy, but if someone can find the mcgahn interview part about taking notes, it was hilarious.

“What-about these notes?” Trump asked McGahn, per McGahn’s recollection. “Why do you take notes? Lawyers don’t take notes. I never had a lawyer who took notes.”

McGahn said he did so because he is a “real lawyer” and that it’s his legal responsibility to keep an accurate record of events.

“I’ve had a lot of great lawyers, like Roy Cohn,” Trump replied, per McGahn. “He did not take notes.”

[henrygandorf 29174]

perfect, thanks.  it was the "real lawyer" that sent toobin over the edge.  then cooper cracked as well.  i'm sure video will be up on the whole thing soon.

[elguapo 4583]

So I thought DOTUS was going to hold a victory lap PC today. Did that happen or did they have to scrap it because not even Fox News bought Barr's joke PC?

[troph 24562]

to be fair, the associate takes the notes and they might not be real lawyers.  I think trump might be right on that one actually.  jk

[TwiceHorn 31269]

36 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

 

Yeah, its pretty obvious that the Dudley Do-Rights under Trump refused to do illegal activities, then testified to that to cover their asses. The others who did commit illegal acts, lied about it, destroyed evidence and/or continue to lie about it.

We’ll learn more about the latter in the unredacted version and in future indictments. The report will be the gift that keeps on giving. It has exceeded my expectations on the level of corruption and incompetence. The details are staggeringly bad for Trump.

What Trump has is an emerging authoritarian apparatus, state-run media for the 30% (40% of likely voters), a stable Obama economy, emerging left-wing dumbfuckery, GOP voter suppression, and Russia.

 

Where, exactly, do you think removing redactions is going to provide some goldmine of new information about your second sentence?

I mean, I was told on this thread that all the good stuff would be redacted, but not once in reading it did I say "oh shit, a redaction, this was getting good."

Edited April 19, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Enchubben 5509]

So what do we do about Russians interfering with our elections? I don’t see a reason why they wouldn’t ramp up that type of activity in the next election. At a minimum look at the social disruption it’s caused.

IMO that’s the bigger issue that needs to be addressed at this point.

[Gil Bang 25897]

Kellyanne's getting it up the ass tonight

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-conway-trump-is-a-cancer-on-the-presidency-congress-should-remove-him/2019/04/18/e75a13d8-6220-11e9-bfad-36a7eb36cb60_story.html

[GRHorn 105]

2 hours ago, elguapo said:

#FakeNews the Mueller report very clearly establishes collusion. Be happy your guy was able to wriggle his way out of another jam, no need to lie about it.

 

2 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

Just to name a few.  The report establishes both collusion and obstruction, just not criminality based on the collusion.  Dems should move to impeach quickly, but won't because they are pussies. 

So I guess you internet sleuths are better and more experienced at investigative work than Robert Mueller et al?

”the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

 

[elguapo 4583]

Just now, GRHorn said:

 

So I guess you internet sleuths are better and more experienced at investigative work than Robert Mueller et al?

”the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

 

Funny I don't see the word collusion in your quote. Learn to read.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, GRHorn said:

 

So I guess you internet sleuths are better and more experienced at investigative work than Robert Mueller et al?

”the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

 

No, we just understand the difference between "collusion" and the words in that quote.  Mueller pointed it out as well. 

[TexEx15 17467]

3 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

 

So I guess you internet sleuths are better and more experienced at investigative work than Robert Mueller et al?

”the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

 

 Kind of the same way OJ was voted not guilty.  I’m sure you were all on board with that verdict.

[BradInATX 9208]

5 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

 

So I guess you internet sleuths are better and more experienced at investigative work than Robert Mueller et al?

”the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

 

"Establishing" to a standard where human beings with common sense know that there's a "there there" is different than establishing to a legal standard for conviction. But you know that already and are just being a twat.

Edited April 19, 2019 by BradInATX

[Blotto 23432]

2 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

but he should be, right? 

even if literally everyone knows it's political theater (some won't figure it out for a while).  it helps his bullshit story if he acts pissed off and it plays to his base.  if he redirected some (fake) anger at russia (instead of at the left) it would play amazingly.  for that reason alone, i hope he doesn't do it.

Well he did the next best thing

Such. A. Fucking. Brain. Dead. Shitstain. 

Rather than call out Russia for their brazen attack on our democratic process, he called out US intelligence instead  and offered to partner with his sugar daddy. Look I get why Trump wants to bury all this shit in the weeds, becuase anybody with a brain knows that he lost the popular election by 3 million votes and likely won because of targeted Russian social media influence in the states that he HAD to win. Its the GOP retards showing no concern that the Russians ran a train on their brains that is truly disappointing. Ole Ronnie Reagan wouldn't lay down for Russia, but Icono cant unbutton his pants and grab his ankles fast enough. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Blotto

[American Swindle 102]

Am I the only one that thinks the below sums up 65+% of the CR right now?

[\URL]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

TL:DR version of Mueller Report

Volume 1: “We couldn’t establish a criminal conspiracy because most of the key witnesses lied to us, encrypted/deleted all their Russia related communications, and/or were too stupid to know they were committing a crime.”

Volume 2: “We really wanted to exonerate the President but holy shit look at all this evidence proving the President repeatedly obstructed justice.”

Edited April 19, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[elguapo 4583]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

TL:DR version of Mueller Report

Volume 1: “We couldn’t establish a criminal conspiracy because most of the key witnesses lied to us, encrypted/deleted all their Russia related communications, and/or were too stupid to know they were committing a crime.”

Volume 2: “We really wanted to exonerate the President but holy shit look at all this evidence proving the President repeatedly obstructed justice.”

Trumpkins: The Russian Collusion Delusion is the biggest hoax in political history!!!!

[henrygandorf 29174]

35 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

did anyone else just watch hogan gidley on anderson cooper?  that was great tv.

also in his open (40 min ago) he was reading through sections of the report, and got to the conversation trump had with don mcgahn (the "why are you taking notes" part), and the back and forth was so funny that you could hear jeffrey toobin cracking up off camera.  i bet it's been quite the long day over there.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/04/19/hogan-gidley-mueller-report-anderson-cooper-full-interview-ac360-vpx.cnn

with full video ^^

[bolverk 29399]

11 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

So what do we do about Russians interfering with our elections? I don’t see a reason why they wouldn’t ramp up that type of activity in the next election. At a minimum look at the social disruption it’s caused.

 IMO that’s the bigger issue that needs to be addressed at this point.

I think it's a valid question and it appears not much is being done. In fact, the president and folks on this board continue to refer to it as a "hoax" while maybe, secretly, they're happy that it happened because their guy won. Look, this point has been made repeatedly on both this site and the old one that, if it doesn't get addressed, we may never again have electoral results that we can trust in (i.e. "rigged") which is precisely what Putin wanted to begin with: erode faith in Western democracies so he can tell his own people at home that our system doesn't work, so they should continue to put up with his kleptocratic form.

It's a really big fucking problem.

[jimmyjazz 45554]

It's a topic for another thread, but step 1 is federal law mandating universal backup ballots that can't be manipulated.

[GRHorn 105]

19 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

No, we just understand the difference between "collusion" and the words in that quote.  Mueller pointed it out as well. 

Where? I wanna see. 

[American Swindle 102]

So what do we do about Russians interfering with our elections? I don’t see a reason why they wouldn’t ramp up that type of activity in the next election. At a minimum look at the social disruption it’s caused.
IMO that’s the bigger issue that needs to be addressed at this point.

Tulsi has a recommendation: paper ballots.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mojo Hand 4580]

4 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Where? I wanna see. 

Page 2, third full paragraph. 

[Horn Dog 9671]

2 hours ago, elguapo said:

Because it's better for Putin if everyone knows he's Trump's daddy.

 

26 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

So what do we do about Russians interfering with our elections? I don’t see a reason why they wouldn’t ramp up that type of activity in the next election. At a minimum look at the social disruption it’s caused.

IMO that’s the bigger issue that needs to be addressed at this point.

At this point Putin should just run as the Repub candidate.  He will get at least 40% of the vote without any effort which may be enough to win.  

[bolverk 29399]

7 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Where? I wanna see. 

Page 2, Vol. 1.

The report describes actions and events that the Special Counsel's Office found to be supported by the evidence collected in our investigation. In some instances, the report points out the absence of evidence or conflicts in the evidence about a particular fact or event. In other instances, when substantial, credible evidence enabled the Office to reach a conclusion with confidence, the report states that the investigation established that certain actions or events occurred. A statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean there was no evidence of those facts.

In evaluating whether evidence about collective action of multiple individuals constituted a crime, we applied the framework of conspiracy law, not the concept of "collusion.” In so doing, the Office recognized that the word "collud[e]" was used in communications with the Acting Attorney General confirming certain aspects of the investigation's scope and that the term has frequently been invoked in public reporting about the investigation. But collusion is not a specific offense or theory of liability found in the United States Code, nor is it a term of art in federal criminal law. For those reasons, the Office's focus in analyzing questions of joint criminal liability was on conspiracy as defined in federal law. In connection with that analysis, we addressed the factual question whether members of the Trump Campaign “coordinat[ed]” — a term that appears in the appointment order — with Russian election interference activities. Like collusion, “coordination” does not have a settled definition in federal criminal law. We understood coordination to require an agreement — tacit or express — between the Trump Campaign and the Russian government on election interference. That requires more than the two parties taking actions that were informed by or responsive to the other's actions or interests. We applied the term coordination in that sense when stating in the report that the investigation did not establish that the Trump Campaign coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

Edited April 19, 2019 by bolverk
what mojo said

[GRHorn 105]

18 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

 Kind of the same way OJ was voted not guilty.  I’m sure you were all on board with that verdict.

Not exactly. 

 

19 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

"Establishing" to a standard where human beings with common sense know that there's a "there there" is different than establishing to a legal standard for conviction. But you know that already and are just being a twat.

I’m not a lawyer. I’m not an expert on legal standards, but they’re there for a reason. You’re welcome to comment and speculate all you want about what you think happened, but the findings and conclusions are what counts.  

 

[Anastasis 23394]

21 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Am I the only one that thinks the below sums up 65+% of the CR right now?

[\URL]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

In other words, focus on real shit people. [/trumpkin thoughts]