The Robert Mueller Investigation

[GW Hayduke 1957]

3 minutes ago, kevwun said:

If Trump was obstructing to hide the financial crimes of Trump Inc., the argument of no underlying crimes is completely invalid.

What if he was hiding campaign finance crimes where he conspired with his attorney to pay off a porn star and a model to hide his affairs during the campaign?

[kevwun 16442]

He was doing that too.  It's why that argument is ridiculous.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

15 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

Your mistress is falsely accused of embezzlement.  You have been transferring cash from your bank account to hers to pay for hotel rooms.  During the police investigation you give misleading statements, hide financial records and order subordinates to lie for you cause you don’t want your wife to find out. Your mistress is ultimately not charged. Although there was no underlying original crime can you be accused of obstructing a police investigation?

Is there an (R) or (D) in front of the name?

[American Swindle 102]

Fair enough.  But your questions has been answered.  You now understand that someone can obstruct justice even in the absence of an underlying crime, right?  

Yeah, sounds pretty clear to me.

[American Swindle 102]

No kidding.  Questions that have been answered here and elsewhere hundreds of times.  You're getting your info from the most hopelessly biased sources imaginable, and you're not thinking for yourself.
If you impede an investigation into a possible crime, you are obstructing justice.  It doesn't matter what the final conclusion is regarding that possible crime.

So we want to nail a US president found to not be colluding with Russia for impeding an investigation that ultimately led to a 440 page conclusion he did collude?

Seems like most folks are interested in nailing Trump’s ass for more political reasons. If we used the same standard for past administrations and future administrations, I assume everyone is okay with digging into them with the same amount of zeal and scrutiny as the Trump then right?

[DDD Dad 14656]

So we want to nail a US president found to not be colluding with Russia for impeding an investigation that ultimately led to a 440 page conclusion he did collude?

Seems like most folks are interested in nailing Trump’s ass for more political reasons. If we used the same standard for past administrations and future administrations, I assume everyone is okay with digging into them with the same amount of zeal and scrutiny as the Trump then right?

Only if it involves blowjobs.

[Dolemite 143]

49 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

 

Ahh, the ole’ surly “you’re stupid” and a “troll” because you are asking questions bit.

I was actually asking the questions in what I thought was a civil manner directly to a poster on the question obstruction if there was no crime to obstruct.

I guess it’s the surly way to be omniscient and and act like we know everything on here right?

Y’all got me really moving to your side
 

 

Hanson does a good putting Trump in perspective; Starts around 24:20.

 

https://youtu.be/gn9q7JEscqY?t=1474

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Davis_Hanson

[David Dennison 19560]

24 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

So we want to nail a US president found to not be colluding with Russia for impeding an investigation that ultimately led to a 440 page conclusion he did collude?

Seems like most folks are interested in nailing Trump’s ass for more political reasons. If we used the same standard for past administrations and future administrations, I assume everyone is okay with digging into them with the same amount of zeal and scrutiny as the Trump then right?

 

 

The report does not say that there is no evidence of collusion with Russia. In fact, it says just the opposite. Moreover, it establishes quite clearly that the president tried to cover it up by interfering with the investigation. That's illegal.

[GW Hayduke 1957]

[Anastasis 23723]

53 minutes ago, maninblack said:

Are the looneys getting crazier? 

Hugo's daily post count has fallen off a cliff, so we got that going for us. 

 

[HenryJames 67417]

15 minutes ago, Dolemite said:

Hanson does a good putting Trump in perspective; Starts around 24:20.

 

https://youtu.be/gn9q7JEscqY?t=1474

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Davis_Hanson

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-classicist-who-sees-donald-trump-as-a-tragic-hero

[EuroHorn 3295]

[David Dennison 19560]

Just now, EuroHorn said:

Oh, sweetie. It's not anywhere close to being over. It's never going to be over.

[EuroHorn 3295]

[SDG 3336]

1 hour ago, maninblack said:

Are the looneys getting crazier? 

The Dems would be wise to start focusing on actual policy but they won’t so we’ll get 4 more years of Trump.  

[David Dennison 19560]

Just now, SDG said:

The Dems would be wise to start focusing on actual policy but they won’t so we’ll get 4 more years of Trump.  

His chances at re-election are getting worse, not better, and they were pretty low to begin with.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

How is this “weird?”   

i think with what we know now, the Obama administration absolutely underestimated or didn’t understand Russian intentions.

Fast Forward 4 years and  it is abundantly clear what Russia has done and continues to do,..  So what does the current President do?  He goes to Helsinki and jacks off Putin and lets him finish on his face.  

As opposed to Mr. Obama taking it in the ass for much of his 8 years in office ??  

Or maybe they didn't want to say shit 'cause they knew Hillary was gonna win, and the Russians fucking in the election wasn't going to be an issue for team DNC....  But hey who knows .......

Mr. Obamas record with Russia was not great. So is it under estimated or just completely fucked up ?  Was the intel community saying the same thing ? Russia was no issue ?

Edited April 20, 2019 by Onboard 2.0

[David Dennison 19560]

4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

As opposed to Mr. Obama taking it in the ass for much of his 8 years in office ??  

Or maybe they didn't want to say shit 'cause they knew Hillary was gonna win, and the Russians fucking in the election wasn't going to be an issue for team DNC....  But hey who knows .......

Mr. Obamas record with Russia was not great. So is it under estimated or just completely fucked up ?  Was the intel community saying the same thing ? Russia was no issue ?

No. They told him what was happening and then they briefed both campaigns. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by David Dennison

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

No. They told him what was happening and then they briefed both campaigns. 

"You cannot hack a presidential election" 

B. Obama

 

[David Dennison 19560]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

"You cannot hack a presidential election" 

B. Obama

He's right. You hack computers. Mueller does not say the Russians hacked the presidential election.

Did you read the report?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, David Dennison said:

He's right. You hack computers. Mueller does not say the Russians hacked the presidential election.

Did you read the report?

(rolling) Yeah... that's exactly what he meant to say......  (eyes)

[Mapache 1117]

 

"Republicans need to look no further than the nearest mirror if they’re looking for who to blame for Russian’s attack on the United States. Mitch McConnell refused to do the right thing for his country when the Russians attacked us. Instead, he did what he always does; when asked by President Obama to take a unified stand against Russia, McConnell threatened President Obama.

Now that the Muller indictment of the 13 Russians and 3 Russian businesses makes the fact that the Russians attacked the United States in the lead up to the 2016 election unimpeachable, Republicans are doing what they do — blaming President Obama."

They wrote that by mid-September, the Obama White House was looking to take action on Russia and asked, in a secret meeting with the Gang of 12 – a bipartisan group of House and Senate leaders – for a show of “show of solidarity and bipartisan unity” against Russian meddling in the election.

Guess what Obama got.

A big fat no, led by Mitch McConnell. A kick in the gut to democracy and patriotism by the Republican Senator.

“McConnell raised doubts about the underlying intelligence and made clear to the administration that he would consider any effort by the White House to challenge the Russians publicly an act of partisan politics.”

https://www.politicususa.com/2018/02/17/earth-to-conservatives-mitch-mcconnell-threatened-president-obama-against-publicizing-the-russian-meddling.html

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Mapache

[David Dennison 19560]

1 minute ago, Mapache said:

"Republicans need to look no further than the nearest mirror if they’re looking for who to blame for Russian’s attack on the United States. Mitch McConnell refused to do the right thing for his country when the Russians attacked us. Instead, he did what he always does; when asked by President Obama to take a unified stand against Russia, McConnell threatened President Obama.

Now that the Muller indictment of the 13 Russians and 3 Russian businesses makes the fact that the Russians attacked the United States in the lead up to the 2016 election unimpeachable, Republicans are doing what they do — blaming President Obama."

Republicans are anti-American.

[Dolemite 143]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

He's right. You hack computers. Mueller does not say the Russians hacked the presidential election.

Did you read the report?

 

[JimmyJames 12271]

The turtle is one of the most evil actors here. He is a bigger traitor than trump. 

[TornACL 7792]

1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

Fair enough.  But your questions has been answered.  You now understand that someone can obstruct justice even in the absence of an underlying crime, right?  

Everyone knows that you can get popped for obstruction of what is ultimately a non-crime.

But what American Swindle presupposes is, maybe you can't? 

Edited April 20, 2019 by TornACL

[TexArcher 39074]

1 hour ago, American Swindle said:

So we want to nail a US president found to not be colluding with Russia for impeding an investigation that ultimately led to a 440 page conclusion he did collude?

 

 

Um, yes.  Impeding a federal investigation is a serious crime.  

 

[David Dennison 19560]

18 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Um, yes.  Impeding a federal investigation is a serious crime.  

Also, with regard to criminal conspiracy, this wonderful sentence from the Mueller Report cannot be repeated enough: "A statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean there was no evidence of those facts."

[GHOSTUSER 361]

15 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

Answering facts with racebaiting nonsense is about the most toxic and hateful thing you can do.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-513388/Minister-Muslim-inbreeding-Britain-causing-massive-surge-birth-defects.html

To borrow a phrase from noted archconservative Sam Harris, Islam is the motherload of bad ideas.

Multicultural, diversity supporters like to silence those of us concerned about Muslim immigration by calling us bigots. The sickness in societies infected by Islam stem from many sources, one of them is the rampant inbreeding. Other despicable acts sanctioned by their prophet are subjugation of non-Muslims and women, lying in order to make us all dhimmis, conversion at the point of the sword, a culture of death that exalts martyrdom over life and peace, etc. Islam has destroyed every country it has touched turning great civilizations like Egypt, Byzantium and Persia into a shell of their former selves. It’s on the march in Europe and it is causing Jews to flee from places like France. We’re bigots for not wanting that garbage here in the US.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

15 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

https://pjmedia.com/blog/the-problem-of-inbreeding-in-islam/

It sound more like you're angry because the world doesn't resemble the way you would prefer it to be and your response is to run around calling people names.

One area of Pakistan you say? Want to wager on whether you have your facts right this time? 

 

Inbreeding is definitely an Islamic practice. The first article that you cited was trying not to state the truth in order not to offend Muslims. My grandfather, who was the only member of my family that was a practicing Muslim, would tell me as a kid that he wanted me to marry my 1st cousin. My Mom, Dad, Aunt and me all thought it was disgusting, but that’s Islam.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Iconoclast Texan

[GHOSTUSER 361]

15 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Is this the Muslim investigation thread?

Hold my beer. I have arrived.

[Chooky 13340]

7 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Inbreeding is definitely an Islamic practice. The first article that you cited was trying not to state the truth in order not to offend Muslims. My grandfather, who was the only member of my family that was a practicing Muslim, would tell me as a kid that he wanted me to marry my 1st cousin. My Mom, Dad, Aunt and me all thought it was disgusting, but that’s Islam.

It seems like every time you share something about your personal life it makes me want to take a shower.

[Js1 87207]

22 minutes ago, Chooky said:

It seems like every time you share something about your personal life it makes me want to take a shower.

So the Roosevelts and most of the historical white royal families are Muslim too?

[troph 25238]

As opposed to Mr. Obama taking it in the ass for much of his 8 years in office ??  
Or maybe they didn't want to say shit 'cause they knew Hillary was gonna win, and the Russians fucking in the election wasn't going to be an issue for team DNC....  But hey who knows .......
Mr. Obamas record with Russia was not great. So is it under estimated or just completely fucked up ?  Was the intel community saying the same thing ? Russia was no issue ?

It was a fuck ton better than trump

[troph 25238]

Multicultural, diversity supporters like to silence those of us concerned about Muslim immigration by calling us bigots. The sickness in societies infected by Islam stem from many sources, one of them is the rampant inbreeding. Other despicable acts sanctioned by their prophet are subjugation of non-Muslims and women, lying in order to make us all dhimmis, conversion at the point of the sword, a culture of death that exalts martyrdom over life and peace, etc. Islam has destroyed every country it has touched turning great civilizations like Egypt, Byzantium and Persia into a shell of their former selves. It’s on the march in Europe and it is causing Jews to flee from places like France. We’re bigots for not wanting that garbage here in the US.

I view religious extremism with equal severity. Radical Islam is an existential threat to humanity. Radical Christianity is an existential threat to me and my people. Guess how many of each are in this country.

The people who scare the crap out of me on a daily basis are white, fundamentalist, conservative Christians.

Can we deal with both with the same sweeping generalities?

[DDD Dad 14656]

Multicultural, diversity supporters like to silence those of us concerned about Muslim immigration by calling us bigots. We’re bigots.

Tl/dr

[GHOSTUSER 361]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

 

I view religious extremism with equal severity. Radical Islam is an existential threat to humanity. Radical Christianity is an existential threat to me and my people. Guess how many of each are in this country.

The people who scare the crap out of me on a daily basis are white, fundamentalist, conservative Christians.

Can we deal with both with the same sweeping generalities?

 

I dislike all religious fundamentalists. We agree on that. I am a member of a Christian denomination that is considered part of the Christian “left”. I don’t like social conservatives and am very supportive of the LGBTQ community, which you know. There are more issues with the basic tenets of Islam in its effect on society than other religions. I finished God in the Q’uran by Jack Miles recently. I recommend it. It gave me a better understanding of how the Islamic mindset came about.

[DDD Dad 14656]

I dislike all religious fundamentalists. We agree on that. I am a member of a Christian denomination that is considered part of the Christian “left”. I don’t like social conservatives and am very supportive of the LGBTQ community, which you know. There are more issues with the basic tenets of Islam in its effect on society than other religions. I finished God in the Q’uran by Jack Miles recently. I recommend it. It gave me a better understanding of how the Islamic mindset came about.

Kindly take your religious discussion to a relevant thread. Kthanxbye

[workswithseed 2204]

23 minutes ago, troph said:

 

I view religious extremism with equal severity. Radical Islam is an existential threat to humanity. Radical Christianity is an existential threat to me and my people. Guess how many of each are in this country.

The people who scare the crap out of me on a daily basis are white, fundamentalist, conservative Christians.

Can we deal with both with the same sweeping generalities?

 

Look at all those white Christians grouping around her.

[David Dennison 19560]

18 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

I dislike all religious fundamentalists. We agree on that. I am a member of a Christian denomination that is considered part of the Christian “left”. I don’t like social conservatives and am very supportive of the LGBTQ community, which you know. There are more issues with the basic tenets of Islam in its effect on society than other religions. I finished God in the Q’uran by Jack Miles recently. I recommend it. It gave me a better understanding of how the Islamic mindset came about.

Have you read the Koran?

[David Dennison 19560]

1 hour ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Inbreeding is definitely an Islamic practice. The first article that you cited was trying not to state the truth in order not to offend Muslims. My grandfather, who was the only member of my family that was a practicing Muslim, would tell me as a kid that he wanted me to marry my 1st cousin. My Mom, Dad, Aunt and me all thought it was disgusting, but that’s Islam.

You can find just as many disgusting things about Christianity as you can about Islam.

But you already know that.

[troph 25238]

33 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

I dislike all religious fundamentalists. We agree on that. I am a member of a Christian denomination that is considered part of the Christian “left”. I don’t like social conservatives and am very supportive of the LGBTQ community, which you know. There are more issues with the basic tenets of Islam in its effect on society than other religions. I finished God in the Q’uran by Jack Miles recently. I recommend it. It gave me a better understanding of how the Islamic mindset came about.

you're talking out both sides of your mouth.  Trump is the most vile administration on LGBTQ issues in my lifetime.  He is a charlatan not a Christian but he's brand panders to the fundamentalists and now we have a major backlash against LGBTQ folk.  The Christian Left is shocked and appalled by Trump.  You claim to be a progressive Christian yet you are actively in agreement with an administration that supports legal positions that are the Christian version of Sharia law.  you can't just say this shit and get away with it.  you aren't a progressive Christian, despite what you think.

[troph 25238]

23 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Look at all those white Christians grouping around her.

what part of "I view religious extremism regardless of its form with equal severity" did you not get?

that's france.  you know who does the same bullshit in this country?  white Christian fundamentalists.

which is a greater threat to trans people in this country white fundamentalist Christians or radical Islamists?  I'll give you a hint, Dan Patrick and Mike Pence are white.

[workswithseed 2204]

7 minutes ago, troph said:

what part of "I view religious extremism regardless of its form with equal severity" did you not get?

that's france.  you know who does the same bullshit in this country?  white Christian fundamentalists.

which is a greater threat to trans people in this country white fundamentalist Christians or radical Islamists?  I'll give you a hint, Dan Patrick and Mike Pence are white.

There are gangs of religious people going around beating up trans people. Id feel like there would be news on that.

[Gatorubet 30744]

6 hours ago, American Swindle said:

Why have I been constantly hearing the idea that if their isn’t a crime, then their can be no obstruction?
Fox News and the fat cow lying Press Secretary and Rudy Gulianni
Is this a bunch of baloney?
Yes.  Ask Martha Stuart how it works when you lie about things in which you did not criminally participate
Also, is it insane to think that if you were being accused of a crime you didn’t commit and had the long schlong of the IC and every MsM outlet propagandizing the world that you did this crime, then would it be reasonable to think that you may act a little vindictive toward the forces trying to smear you?
Not if I was constantly lying about my Russian ties and Russian contacts and my campaign's meeting with Russian intel connected peeps - while my National Security Advisor was lying about foreign contacts while my AG was lying about his.  No, I would not think that
 

 

 

See bold

Edited April 20, 2019 by Gatorubet

[Anastasis 23723]

Can we come back to the Russian disinformation angle for a minute...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/19/us/politics/steele-dossier-mueller-report.html

By January 2017, F.B.I. agents had tracked down and interviewed one of Mr. Steele’s main sources, a Russian speaker from a former Soviet republic who had spent time in the West, according to a Justice Department document and three people familiar with the events, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. After questioning him about where he’d gotten his information, they suspected he might have added his own interpretations to reports passed on by his sources, one of the people said. For the F.B.I., that made it harder to decide what to trust.

 

By January 2017, the FBI had developed serious doubts about one of the main sources for Steele's work.

Also January 2017: Known Not Wittingly Dissembler James Clapper was pushing the dossier to journalists and was coordinating cover for public release with James Comey.

Nobody has a problem with any of this? "But Trump"?

Jesus Fucking Christ people.  I am going to go plant some peppers. 

[American Swindle 102]

6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Can we come back to the Russian disinformation angle for a minute...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/19/us/politics/steele-dossier-mueller-report.html

By January 2017, F.B.I. agents had tracked down and interviewed one of Mr. Steele’s main sources, a Russian speaker from a former Soviet republic who had spent time in the West, according to a Justice Department document and three people familiar with the events, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. After questioning him about where he’d gotten his information, they suspected he might have added his own interpretations to reports passed on by his sources, one of the people said. For the F.B.I., that made it harder to decide what to trust.

 

By January 2017, the FBI had developed serious doubts about one of the main sources for Steele's work.

Also January 2017: Known Not Wittingly Dissembler James Clapper was pushing the dossier to journalists and was coordinating cover for public release with James Comey.

Nobody has a problem with any of this? "But Trump"?

Jesus Fucking Christ people.  I am going to go plant some peppers. 

Clap on. Clap off.  The Clapper!

 

Does anyone think that it's a case of collusion or conspiracy given the fact that Clapper actively pushed the dossier to journalists while knowing about the FBI's doubts about Steele's credibility?

[Chrispy 132]

Wow, the deep state is real. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11860]

45 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Can we come back to the Russian disinformation angle for a minute...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/19/us/politics/steele-dossier-mueller-report.html

By January 2017, F.B.I. agents had tracked down and interviewed one of Mr. Steele’s main sources, a Russian speaker from a former Soviet republic who had spent time in the West, according to a Justice Department document and three people familiar with the events, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. After questioning him about where he’d gotten his information, they suspected he might have added his own interpretations to reports passed on by his sources, one of the people said. For the F.B.I., that made it harder to decide what to trust.

 

By January 2017, the FBI had developed serious doubts about one of the main sources for Steele's work.

Also January 2017: Known Not Wittingly Dissembler James Clapper was pushing the dossier to journalists and was coordinating cover for public release with James Comey.

Nobody has a problem with any of this? "But Trump"?

Jesus Fucking Christ people.  I am going to go plant some peppers. 

If you’re concerned about the FISA warrant as it relates to the dossier, please read this factual article, and see if you can say in good faith that the FBI didn’t have reason to monitor Carter Page without the dossier.   They would have been negligent not to investigate, in my opinion.

https://www.justsecurity.org/46786/timeline-carter-pages-contacts-russia/

 

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Judge Roybeanbag