The Robert Mueller Investigation

[David Dennison 18856]

4 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'm sorry, say wut ?  Mr. Obama said more times than you can count I inherited the bad (fill in the blank) from the last administration, President Bush , the Bush admin.  Were you asleep the first 4 years of his presidency ??  His first four years was the blame game.

Barack Obama is going to go down in history as one of the country's better presidents, bookended by two of the worst.

[GRHorn 105]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

That is not true and every lawyer on this board will tell you the same.

Ok, I’m not a lawyer. Let’s see if I can restate in a way that makes sense. 

There was insufficient evidence to establish “that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government”.

Does that work for you?

[Tyler Durden 132]

I’m okay with, in order to fix a global economic collapse and do something with the blundering Iraq War, you’d have to discuss what the Bush administration did.

Amazing this hard to understand.

[David Dennison 18856]

2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Ok, I’m not a lawyer. Let’s see if I can restate in a way that makes sense. 

There was insufficient evidence to establish “that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government”.

Does that work for you?

Again, that does not mean there was no evidence that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government. Mueller went out of his way to make that point very clear.

[WhatTheBuck 28777]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Barack Obama is going to go down in history as one of the country's better presidents, bookended by two of the worst.

Best president of the 21st century so far and it's not remotely close. 

[GRHorn 105]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Again, that does not mean there was no evidence that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government. Mueller went out of his way to make that point very clear.

I know it doesn’t mean there was no evidence, it means there was an insufficient amount of it. 

[David Dennison 18856]

2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

I know it doesn’t mean there was no evidence, it means there was an insufficient amount of it. 

That's an extraordinary thing to say about the president of the United States.

[GRHorn 105]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

That's an extraordinary thing to say about the president of the United States.

Technically, it’s not about the President, but his campaign.

At any rate, Mueller has his findings.  The top line conclusion re: collusion is there for everyone to see. Dems harping on collusion only help Trump. You look like Benghazi truthers and POTUS will get to point you out and laugh. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by GRHorn

[Jhawkmvp 1489]

On 4/20/2019 at 12:21 PM, suddenly shaggy said:

It's hard to take your posts seriously without a shitty meme or complaint about Twitter. 

I'll post your favorite for you to get us back on track. 

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing Jesus he wanted Hillary Clinton to win the presidency.

[NWBuck 8552]

Just checking in... 

Given Rudy's comments on the Russian involvement today, we're at the 'even if it did happen, it's not wrong' phase, right? 

[Hornius Emeritus 12460]

19 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Best president of the 21st century so far and it's not remotely close. 

 

I am reading Lawrence Wright's book recent book about Texas. He talks quite a bit about George W. Bush, whom he has known ---- and liked ----- for many years.  He says, and I believe, that Bush is a decent, kind man.  He also says that his friend was in way over his head. 

[David Dennison 18856]

9 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Technically, it’s not about the President, but his campaign.

At any rate, Mueller has his findings.  The top line conclusion re: collusion is there for everyone to see. Dems harping on collusion only help Trump. You look like Benghazi truthers and POTUS will get to point you out and laugh. 

That's why they're going to focus on the overwhelming evidence of obstruction of justice.

[Red Five 40855]

7 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

 

I am reading Lawrence Wright's book recent book about Texas. He talks quite a bit about George W. Bush, whom he has known ---- and liked ----- for many years.  He says, and I believe, that Bush is a decent, kind man.  He also says that his friend was in way over his head. 

He's a hard guy to dislike. As opposed to... well, you know. 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20396]

Can somebody list some of these times when Obama blamed Bush?  I keep reading things like "Mr. Obama said more times than you can count I inherited the bad (fill in the blank) from the last administration, President Bush , the Bush admin.  Were you asleep the first 4 years of his presidency ??  His first four years was the blame game."

Please list some of these. I just googled it and couldn't find very much, other than conservative dog-and-pony sites in which the claim is made that Obama blamed Bush every day of his administration.  

Please, Onboard et al ... let's see these countless times that Obama blamed Bush. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26449]

Technically, it’s not about the President, but his campaign.
At any rate, Mueller has his findings.  The top line conclusion re: collusion is there for everyone to see. Dems harping on collusion only help Trump. You look like Benghazi truthers and POTUS will get to point you out and laugh. 

I just finished reading the report and what you say is false. The concept of “collusion” is not considered in the investigation. Rather, the evidence is evaluated within the framework of conspiracy law.

You don’t get to condescend when you start off with a false statement.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5793]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

It's probably worth a reminder that all the living former presidents get along with each other and none of them have any respect for Trump. That was true when the elder Bush was alive too. 

 

It's amazing to me that the GOP aren't the ones racing towards impeachment. You have to figure it would be ridiculously easy for Pubs to distance themselves from Donald if he was impeached, and they obviously hate his ass. If it wasnt for the "party over everything" mantra that they are hammering, they could ditch his ass, and put up a legit Republican candidate. 

[WhatTheBuck 28777]

28 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

Just checking in... 

Given Rudy's comments on the Russian involvement today, we're at the 'even if it did happen, it's not wrong' phase, right? 

That and it was all a frame up by the Democrats. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

1 hour ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Too bad Pelosi just wants to play politics.

I sent her a tweetie saying she should get off her wrinkled old butt and do her fucking job.  I'm pretty sure she will take my advice under advisement.

[jimmyjazz 45909]

16 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

 

It's amazing to me that the GOP aren't the ones racing towards impeachment. You have to figure it would be ridiculously easy for Pubs to distance themselves from Donald if he was impeached, and they obviously hate his ass. If it wasnt for the "party over everything" mantra that they are hammering, they could ditch his ass, and put up a legit Republican candidate. 

It's a combination of being in on the conspiracy (Russia --> NRA -- $$$) as well as trying to outlast RBG and get the SCOTUS locked down for good.  That's all it is.  Straight up criminal anti-American behavior.

This will not end in a peaceful manner, I'm pretty much convinced.

[NWBuck 8552]

7 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

That and it was all a frame up by the Democrats. 

"There's no way I did that thing the Democrats made me do. Plus, it wasn't illegal anyways." 

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

57 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Best president of the 21st century so far and it's not remotely close. 

Bill Clinton says hi.

[WhatTheBuck 28777]

1 minute ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Bill Clinton says hi.

The 20th century says hi back. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

2 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

The 20th century says hi back. 

Jan 20, 2001 is the 21st century.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5793]

1 minute ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Jan 20, 2001 is the 21st century.

Bruh, come on, Slick Willy was obviously 95% 20th century.... 

[WhatTheBuck 28777]

44 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

 

I am reading Lawrence Wright's book recent book about Texas. He talks quite a bit about George W. Bush, whom he has known ---- and liked ----- for many years.  He says, and I believe, that Bush is a decent, kind man.  He also says that his friend was in way over his head. 

Dubya was a useful idiot. It's one more example of the many ways his presidency foreshadowed Trump's. Trump just turned everything up to 11. But Dubya isn't innocent. He's a war criminal. Yeah, he was in over his head. In other words he was completely unqualified for the job. Trump is even less qualified. But one's incompetence shouldn't excuse one from the consequences of their misdeeds. 

[WhatTheBuck 28777]

14 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Jan 20, 2001 is the 21st century.

Lol...that's so weak. What did Bill accomplish in the last less-than-three-weeks of his presidency?

Too bad he couldn't convince his successor that radical Islamic terrorism really was the greatest threat to America. At least he tried. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by WhatTheBuck

[GHOSTUSER 361]

3 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

It's probably worth a reminder that all the living former presidents get along with each other and none of them have any respect for Trump. That was true when the elder Bush was alive too. 

You mean the 2 war criminal Bushes and Clinton who embody the DC swamp creatures that Trump vowed to eradicate which the base wholeheartedly supports. I think that’s a fair trade off in his eyes. Trump should be thanked for sparing us from a low energy Jeb! Presidency.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Barack Obama is going to go down in history as one of the country's better presidents, bookended by two of the worst.

Obamacare cost the middle class thousands of dollars more in premiums, deductibles and co-pays to cover lower class people’s health care. A direct subsidy to the poors  would’ve been better for the middle class, whose interests should be primary in crafting legislation and not the poors. Fuck John McCain for sabotaging Obamacare repeal.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Iconoclast Texan

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

6 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Lol...that's so weak. What did Bill accomplish in the last less-than-three-weeks of his presidency?

Too bad he couldn't convince his successor that radical Islamic terrorism really was the greatest threat to America. At least he tried. 

Then you should have said best president elected in the 21st century instead of just "best president of the 21st century". 

[WhatTheBuck 28777]

11 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Then you should have said best president elected in the 21st century instead of just "best president of the 21st century". 

I stand by what I said. You're just being silly. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

6 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I stand by what I said. You're just being silly. 

Yes, I am being silly.  But I am right and you are wrong.  Sorry.

Was Bill Clinton president in the 21st century?  Yes
Was Bill Clinton better than GWB, Obama and Trump?  Yes
Ergo Bill Clinton was the best president in the 21st century.

QED.

[WhatTheBuck 28777]

7 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Yes, I am being silly.  But I am right and you are wrong.  Sorry.

Was Bill Clinton president in the 21st century?  Yes
Was Bill Clinton better than GWB, Obama and Trump?  Yes
Ergo Bill Clinton was the best president in the 21st century.

QED.

You're nitpicking over an irrelevant technicality. What legislation did Bill pass during those final days in office?

You're aware that the 21st century started on January 1, 2001, right?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Obama was a better president than Clinton. 

[CowboyFred 1151]

8 hours ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

You mean the 2 war criminal Bushes and Clinton who embody the DC swamp creatures that Trump vowed to eradicate which the base wholeheartedly supports. I think that’s a fair trade off in his eyes. Trump should be thanked for sparing us from a low energy Jeb! Presidency.

This draining of the swamp you speak of, when is it supposed to happen?  I’d consider adding someone like DeVos to a cabinet position, who has no business running the Dept. or Education, as making the water a little murkier. 

[GW Hayduke 1953]

1 minute ago, CowboyFred said:

This draining of the swamp you speak of, when is it supposed to happen?  I’d consider adding someone like DeVos to a cabinet position, who has no business running the Dept. or Education, as making the water a little murkier. 

Why stop at Devos? Rick Perry. Wilbur Ross. Ben Carson. Mulvaney. Herman Cain. Stephen Moore. Javanka. Anyone who thought a real estate developer/tv personality would drain the swamp is an idiot. Anyone who still thinks trump is draining the swamp watches Fox News

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, GW Hayduke said:

Why stop at Devos? Rick Perry. Wilbur Ross. Ben Carson. Mulvaney. Herman Cain. Stephen Moore. Javanka. Anyone who thought a real estate developer/tv personality would drain the swamp is an idiot. Anyone who still thinks trump is draining the swamp watches Fox News

Correct, the swamp people are rooted firmly. The huge gov't bureaucracy is the real swamp.

[GW Hayduke 1953]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Correct, the swamp people are rooted firmly. The huge gov't bureaucracy is the real swamp.

It’s like opening all your windows so the mosquitos get in your house. Then closing the windows and sleeping outside

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, GW Hayduke said:

It’s like opening all your windows so the mosquitos get in your house. Then closing the windows and sleeping outside

Having spent lots of time in mosquito country,  that's a good analogy.

[GRHorn 105]

11 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I just finished reading the report and what you say is false. The concept of “collusion” is not considered in the investigation. Rather, the evidence is evaluated within the framework of conspiracy law.

You don’t get to condescend when you start off with a false statement.

I understand that. I called it “collusion” because that’s what it’s been called for two years. There is no crime of collusion. So they looked at conspiracy and coordination. Could not establish that. The conclusion is the same on those counts. Next. 

[Anastasis 23469]

Can our rankings include international body count and government civil liberties abuses? Bush clearly "wins" when those attributes are included in the mix, but it might help draw distinctions between Obama and Clinton in the ratings. 

[DDD Dad 14336]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

I understand that. I called it “collusion” because that’s what it’s been called for two years. There is no crime of collusion. So they looked at conspiracy and coordination. Could not establish that. The conclusion is the same on those counts. Next. 

You called it "collusion" because that's the terminology Trump and the GOP used to shape the narrative.  

[wildcat09 29352]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Correct, the swamp people are rooted firmly. The huge gov't bureaucracy is the real swamp.

This is just so dumb. How are people at the Social Security Administration trying to make sure the checks get out on time or people at the EPA trying to make sure the air isn't poison the real problem?

[GRHorn 105]

9 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

You called it "collusion" because that's the terminology Trump and the GOP used to shape the narrative.  

What?  That’s the term people on all sides have been using for 2 years. 

Would you feel better if they said “no conspiracy”?  Because Mueller didn’t establish that either. 

[DDD Dad 14336]

2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

What?  That’s the term people on all sides have been using for 2 years. 

Would you feel better if they said “no conspiracy”?  Because Mueller didn’t establish that either. 

I was referring to this op-ed piece.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/19/opinion/mueller-report-barr-trump-russian-disinformation.html

[Zavala 1384]

500+ pages

Did I miss the impeachment?

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

The more I think about the opening to Vol II, the more I wonder why that section was written at all.  It starts with saying a sitting president can't be indicted, then says that even sealed indictments for use afterward are too far because they'd inevitably leak.  Importantly, he then says even a prosecutor's internal report that isn't a formal public accusation of a crime, the possibility of public disclosure says you shouldn't do it.  All this in service to separation of powers and recognition that the president has a job to do that could be hindered by the 'stigma and opprobrium' of having an accusation of a crime hanging over him.

The distinction between that and what he has written in Vol II, which is 'these are all the facts that show a pattern of obstruction, but i'm not going to actually say obstruction, but also, if there was any evidence that this wasn't obstruction, i'd let you know' seems vanishingly small.  It's like a magic words scenario, where so long as Mueller doesn't use the phrase "I think DJT committed this crime" he can say whatever he wants.

[notre dame joe 187]

5 hours ago, GRHorn said:

I understand that. I called it “collusion” because that’s what it’s been called for two years. There is no crime of collusion. So they looked at conspiracy and coordination. Could not establish that. The conclusion is the same on those counts. Next. 

"Collusion" may not be a crime but if a private political candidate was actually colluding with a foreign government then they would have to commit all sorts of white collar crimes ala Al Capone to pull it off. 

[David Dennison 18856]

18 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

"Collusion" may not be a crime but if a private political candidate was actually colluding with a foreign government then they would have to commit all sorts of white collar crimes ala Al Capone to pull it off. 

The SDNY is busy. 

 

[David Dennison 18856]

4 hours ago, GRHorn said:

What?  That’s the term people on all sides have been using for 2 years. 

Would you feel better if they said “no conspiracy”?  Because Mueller didn’t establish that either. 

But he did find evidence of it. It's in the report. You should read it.