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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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David Dennison

David Dennison 18854

Posted
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3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I wish I could believe this.  We all know the Ds are way to big of pussies to admit this is how the game is played now.  They will go back to the status quo and fucking lose again and we are doomed to repeat this simulation forever.

Revisit this in one year.

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Goredho
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Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

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liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

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I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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Goredho

Goredho 17399

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I wish I could believe this.  We all know the Ds are way to big of pussies to admit this is how the game is played now.  They will go back to the status quo and fucking lose again and we are doomed to repeat this simulation forever.

It may be a false hope, but its a hope I have nonetheless.  If these are the new rules...

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Strategically, it would be best for Mueller to first testify in an impeachment proceeding and it would be important for him to be allowed to speak freely. 

That’s the best potential play the democrats have, politically speaking. 

They need to be working to make that a reality. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28776

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I wish I could believe this.  We all know the Ds are way to big of pussies to admit this is how the game is played now.  They will go back to the status quo and fucking lose again and we are doomed to repeat this simulation forever.

If you sink to their level then you're no better than them and we all lose. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105096

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If you sink to their level then you're no better than them and we all lose. 

We’ve all already lost.

If we don’t sink to their level, they will continue to win and we all lose.

If we do sink to their level, then that’s our level and we all lose.

Enjoy your Hobson’s choice.
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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45675

Posted
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7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


We’ve all already lost.

If we don’t sink to their level, they will continue to win and we all lose.

If we do sink to their level, then that’s our level and we all lose.

Enjoy your Hobson’s choice.

This is where I'm at.  And you don't have to sink to their level in terms of just blatantly making things up.  We can just bludgeon them with the truth and call them fucking liars when they are fucking lying and throw the proof in the face of the public and blast it from every got damn mountain top.  The problem is the Rs fucking lie all the time and the Ds go, "well, that isn't very nice.  that's some sort of mistruth they are saying, or maybe just misguided and troublesome and blah blah blah..."

Enough with that bullshit.  Decorum has been thrown out the window.  When they fucking lie, call them fucking liars on national tv and in the chambers of congress.  They'll get all indignant and ruffled and the proper response should be "don't start no shit, won't be no shit".

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Goredho

Goredho 17399

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9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


We’ve all already lost.

If we don’t sink to their level, they will continue to win and we all lose.

If we do sink to their level, then that’s our level and we all lose.

Enjoy your Hobson’s choice.

This right here.  There has  been zero accountability for:

* A presidential candidate soliciting a foreign power's aid in damaging a presidential opponent
* That foreign power acting on that to harm the presidential opponent
* That presidential candidate being elected and using his presidential power to obstruct the inquiry into the above

If our choice is for Donald Trump to be President by those means, or Biden, Harris, Beto, Warren or someone else having to use similar tactics to keep Trump out of office, then I chose the latter.  In a fucking heartbeat.

If between now and 2020 our "leadership" nuts-up and brings some accountability to bear on Trump and those that have helped him with these methods, then I will amend my opinion.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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This is where we are.

Telling the truth and discussing the factual findings of an investigation are now seen as political by 40% of the country because they cannot handle hearing the ugly truth about their orange overlord.

So therefore everyone is afraid to stand up and discuss facts and truth for fear of making those people angry.

It’s such utter horseshit.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45675

Posted
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Just now, Chuckie Finster said:

I'd argue that refusing to testify publicly is a far greater political gesture than just showing up and answering questions.

Yep.  Mueller needs to get over himself.  Do your fucking job and be the patriot we all thought you were.

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Longhornfan1024

Longhornfan1024 1707

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17 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Yeah, fuck this guy.

 

That's some bullshit.  It's not political to testify in response to a Congressional subpoena.  That's just following the law.

And he's already been framed as political from the beginning by those who would do so as a result of his testimony.  It's like saying "I don't want to walk out from under this waterfall because I might get rained on."

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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46 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Yeah, fuck this guy.

“Mueller’s Team” is the most important part of this...Who the fuck is Mueller’s team?  

We need answers from Mueller and he needs to step up without looking complicit but I can see how him appearing would give the Republicans the opportunity to grandstand with bullshit conspiracy theories to cast doubt on his investigation.  

The Mueller report as a document will be speaking for itself until Mueller speaks out. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28776

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37 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


We’ve all already lost.

If we don’t sink to their level, they will continue to win and we all lose.

If we do sink to their level, then that’s our level and we all lose.

Enjoy your Hobson’s choice.

Coming up with just the right insult, the right name to call Trump, isn't the way to beat Trump. He has the advantage down in the muck. That's where he lives. You defeat a liar with truth, not more lies. What use are values if you're willing to betray them for the sake of political expediency?

I understand the sentiment. But if we sink to their level then we can't say we're bothered by their behavior. We're not saying it's beneath us. We're just saying we didn't think of it first. 

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22694

Posted
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5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We need answers from Mueller and he needs to step up without looking complicit but I can see how him appearing would give the Republicans the opportunity to grandstand with bullshit conspiracy theories to cast doubt on his investigation.  

Yeah, can you imagine?!

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Goredho

Goredho 17399

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Coming up with just the right insult, the right name to call Trump, isn't the way to beat Trump. He has the advantage down in the muck. That's where he lives. You defeat a liar with truth, not more lies. What use are values if you're willing to betray them for the sake of political expediency?

I understand the sentiment. But if we sink to their level then we can't say we're bothered by their behavior. We're not saying it's beneath us. We're just saying we didn't think of it first. 

Yes, and like that, the surly liberal cabal have become what the conservitards have been for some time -- win at any cost, no matter the means.

But what's the alternative?  We are in a street fight to the death against a dark form of governance.  The other side has paid off the referees and thrown the rules out the window.  We can sit here and cry "foul!", take the high road and be right about it, but it won't fucking matter one bit.

I'm as centrist as they come.  I hate the idea of aligning myself at a pole when I often see those that traditionally sit there are wrong.  I don't want to be in this situation, but its being pretty much forced on me.  When you see a presidential candidate calling on Russia to affect the election, when you see him obstructing inquiry into that, when you see us turning towards plutocracy and the likes of Putin and Kim, when you see us alienating the great democracies of the world, when you see kids in cages and when you see nothing being done to deter these things, then you have to choose:  What will America be?  The playground of rich, white, male Christians who define the rights, roles and opportunities of everyone else within it?  A sham of a democracy to preserve that order?  It is clear that if you choose to back Trump and/or the current GOP that enables him, you are choosing that America.  And if you aren't willing to defeat that by any means necessary, then you are allowing it to happen.

As someone who values equality, freedom and human rights as core ideals on which all other political concerns rest, I cannot make that choice.  Even if I probably wouldn't agree with a coastal liberal about a whole lot.  Even if it means bending the rules to re-level the playing field.  If Trump loses, there is a chance to restore those ideals to their rightful place at the forefront of our society.  If he does not, then they are assuredly lost.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29905

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3 hours ago, retread said:

Jackie Speier said on CNN this morning that one current line of D thinking is that they would hold the inquiry up to the impeachment vote, and then not vote. I'm not sure I agree with that, but that may be their new line of attack.

That sounds like the brilliant way they handled the issue of allowing W to invade Iraq. They look at like like a legal case. "We'll slip this codicil in here that we don't really mean it, and we're covered!"

They should have voted against the invasion and taken the consequences.

They should pursue the inquiry, vote for impeachment if they think it's justified, and take the consequences. Make the GOPs vote and face those consequences.

Or just tamely protect your seats with a shameful half measure. 

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GW Hayduke

GW Hayduke 1953

Posted
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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:


We’ve all already lost.

If we don’t sink to their level, they will continue to win and we all lose.

If we do sink to their level, then that’s our level and we all lose.

Enjoy your Hobson’s choice.

Who won the 2018 midterms?

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28776

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29 minutes ago, Goredho said:

If Trump loses, there is a chance to restore those ideals to their rightful place at the forefront of our society.  If he does not, then they are assuredly lost.

If we sacrifice those ideals in order to defeat Trump then I fear they're unlikely ever to be restored. If we sacrifice them and still lose then all hope is lost.

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suddenly shaggy

suddenly shaggy 929

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22 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I'm starting to think we may have been deceived. 

Democratic leadership, especially in the House, fucked up royally by putting all their eggs in one basket and not doing any real investigation while waiting for Mueller. If they'd been doing their jobs properly, Mueller would be coming in for confirmation of what the House investigations had already concluded. They need to stop waiting for someone else to do their jobs for them and start impeachment hearings on Barr and Trump. 

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suddenly shaggy

suddenly shaggy 929

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9 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

If we sacrifice those ideals in order to defeat Trump then I fear they're unlikely ever to be restored. If we sacrifice them and still lose then all hope is lost.

Republicans already let Pandora out of her box. Unless this results in real jail time for a bunch of people, she's not going back in. 

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retread

retread 2951

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Posted

There seems to be an inherent expectation of comity and etiquette in DC, even if it's just superficial. You see in in politicians and journalists. I don't want to be that guy/gal to step over the line b/c I want to keep my job.

I think the Ds can call Trump out for what he and his administration are, and I think they can do it in a civil and forceful manner. A message of this is not who we are.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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4 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

Democratic leadership, especially in the House, fucked up royally by putting all their eggs in one basket and not doing any real investigation while waiting for Mueller. If they'd been doing their jobs properly, Mueller would be coming in for confirmation of what the House investigations had already concluded. They need to stop waiting for someone else to do their jobs for them and start impeachment hearings on Barr and Trump. 

Pretty much why I thought they should have started impeachment proceedings before the Mueller Report and let the Mueller Report be the haymaker that seals the deal during impeachment.

If Mueller was a dud, the Dems could go about talking about shit to die in McConnell’s graveyard. 

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13032

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10 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

Democratic leadership, especially in the House, fucked up royally by putting all their eggs in one basket and not doing any real investigation while waiting for Mueller. If they'd been doing their jobs properly, Mueller would be coming in for confirmation of what the House investigations had already concluded. They need to stop waiting for someone else to do their jobs for them and start impeachment hearings on Barr and Trump. 

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29349

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The Democratic leadership is petrified of the thought that it might have to actually wield political power. It’s completely shocking, and yet not the least bit surprising given what we’ve seen from this party over the past ~30 years, to see a political party so terrified of being perceived as acting politically.

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30213

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THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OUT IF THIS WILL HAPPEN.
If you never TRY to remove Trump, he will never be removed.  
If you try and fail, nothing changes the situation. 
No president wants to get impeached.
 

I assume that Nancy has polled this to death and is following real politik strategy


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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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20 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The Democratic leadership is petrified of the thought that it might have to actually wield political power. It’s completely shocking, and yet not the least bit surprising given what we’ve seen from this party over the past ~30 years, to see a political party so terrified of being perceived as acting politically.

They might also have to make contingencies in anticipation of Trump torching the place and attempting to spark a foreign war when they make their move.  Trump gives zero fucks if we all go down with him.  And foreign actors who he thinks have his back would be more than happy to light his match.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45675

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52 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

Democratic leadership, especially in the House, fucked up royally by putting all their eggs in one basket and not doing any real investigation while waiting for Mueller. If they'd been doing their jobs properly, Mueller would be coming in for confirmation of what the House investigations had already concluded. They need to stop waiting for someone else to do their jobs for them and start impeachment hearings on Barr and Trump. 

The Ds didn't have the House until Jan 2019.  Mueller report came down in April.  I guess you could argue that the Dems on the HIC had plenty of info, even when the Rs were running the show.

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