The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Chooky 13292]

Declassify and reveal sourcing agents and field tactics for the entire federal intelligence apparatus so I can use it against MY political opponents.  Conceal MY tax history under the guise of Executive Privilege and National Security. 

The gymnastics required to support this bloated slob on his singularly idiotic endeavors takes the perfect combination of contortion and gullibility.  And over 90% of the currently elected GOP is square with all of that.  That's hilarious.  Truly amusing.  They're traitorous to their own instinct and ideology.  It's funny because it took the most mentally diseased halfwit bereft of any historical knowledge to expose them.  A spray tanned doofus with a hair weave is the individual they chose to follow out of cowardice in order to just boldly admit that they never really stood for any of the core values that once defined their entire party. 

Smart and dignified conservatives like George Will can just stand and watch, knowing the tidal mass of mongoloids are too many and too stupid to stop it.  It's an avalanche in slow motion and the funniest era in American history.           

[jimmyjazz 45513]

1 hour ago, TtomTerrific said:

I wanted Jim Webb to be President, and posted about it often.. but the Jimmy Jazzes assured that he had no shot, got this ignoramus reality show star elected, and are doing it again. 

You have a very tenuous connection to reality.  For one thing, I had nothing to do with Donald Trump being selected as the Republican candidate.  That's all on you and yours, my drunk little friend.

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, Chooky said:

Declassify and reveal sourcing agents and field tactics for the entire federal intelligence apparatus so I can use it against MY political opponents.  Conceal MY tax history under the guise of Executive Privilege and National Security. 

The gymnastics required to support this bloated slob on his singularly idiotic endeavors takes the perfect combination of contortion and gullibility.  And over 90% of the currently elected GOP is square with all of that.  That's hilarious.  Truly amusing.  They're traitorous to their own instinct and ideology.  It's funny because it took the most mentally diseased halfwit bereft of any historical knowledge to expose them.  A spray tanned doofus with a hair weave is the individual they chose to follow out of cowardice in order to just boldly admit that they never really stood for any of the core values that once defined their entire party. 

Smart and dignified conservatives like George Will can just stand and watch, knowing the tidal mass of mongoloids are too many and too stupid to stop it.  It's an avalanche in slow motion and the funniest era in American history.           

See that’s the thing. The last remaining holdout trump supporter trolls on this thread and board can rant and rave and chant “release the memo” and “investigate the investigators” and “no collusion and no obstruction” to the hearts content and none of it matters. 

It’s over trolls. The only ones listening to your bullshit are the mouth breathers and brainwashed who somehow can’t pierce through their bubble and see the truth that their orange idiot god is a complete fraud. In other words, you’re not converting anyone. 

Everyones mind is already made up. It can only get worse for trump if the economy goes down, it can’t get better. And unless the dems totally fuck up, the orange shitstain will be out of the office soon.

And the republicans will have been shown to be total frauds who nobody should ever listen to again. 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

15 hours ago, Chooky said:

The gymnastics required to support this bloated slob on his singularly idiotic endeavors takes the perfect combination of contortion and gullibility. 

True but not surprising. Exhibit A: Aggy has quite a following.

[wildcat09 29187]

16 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

You have a very tenuous connection to reality.  For one thing, I had nothing to do with Donald Trump being selected as the Republican candidate.  That's all on you and yours, my drunk little friend.

No, no, it's your fault.  You MADE TTom pull that lever for Trump when you didn't advocate that Obama install machine gun nests on the border.  How DARE you pretend that you didn't!?

[Zavala 1384]

Glad Nadler is o.k. 

Mueller?

Mueller?

Mueller?

https://theweek.com/articles/843798/robert-muellers-silence-become-problem

Edited May 28, 2019 by Zavala

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Amash thread from today.

[tantric superman 4667]

Is Amash just now getting around to reading the Mueller report?

[Pescado_Rojo 19327]

On his podcast last week, Preet Bharara said he thinks Amish is setting himself up to run for president as an indy/Libertarian. 

[henrygandorf 29174]

2 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

On his podcast last week, Preet Bharara said he thinks Amish is setting himself up to run for president as an indy/Libertarian. 

any monkey wrench he can throw at the right is good.  not sure this is it, though.

i figured he would just run for congress as a democrat.  he's already platforming himself perfectly, considering we're way past the days of left/right actually defining belief on policies and issues.

[Anastasis 23375]

15 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

any monkey wrench he can throw at the right is good.  not sure this is it, though.

i figured he would just run for congress as a democrat.  he's already platforming himself perfectly, considering we're way past the days of left/right actually defining belief on policies and issues.

Are you familiar with Amash's political perspective? He's one of the most libertarian members of the GOP.  I can't see a situation that he would go D. 

 

If he runs he should do so as a Republican rather than in the big L party.  He doesn't have a chance either way, but if he could force a debate or two it would be a better platform than another Libertarian party circus show debate.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Do libertarians normally vote with Trump 90% of the time? 

[henrygandorf 29174]

10 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Are you familiar with Amash's political perspective? He's one of the most libertarian members of the GOP.  I can't see a situation that he would go D. 

running as a d and being a d (or supporting beliefs and issues important to the left) are two different things, especially in today's political landscape.  right now it's trump or no-trump.  that is the core issue.

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

If he runs he should do so as a Republican rather than in the big L party.  He doesn't have a chance either way, but if he could force a debate or two it would be a better platform than another Libertarian party circus show debate.  

agreed.

[Anastasis 23375]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Do libertarians normally vote with Trump 90% of the time? 

Does Hugo Stiglitz fill this site with disinformation and propaganda?

He has the second lowest agreement rate among GOP house reps @ 62.0%, and even that is inflated based on shared opposition to a series of funding bills during the current congress.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/justin-amash/

If you want to understand his rationale for the votes it makes, he provides a rationale for most of them on social media. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

I never made a false claim.  I was just asking questions.

[Anastasis 23375]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I never made a false claim.  I was just asking questions.

 

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Does Hugo Stiglitz fill this site with disinformation and propaganda?

 

You could have just answered the question "yes".

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Joe Biden

[Anastasis 23375]

26 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Joe Biden

Your next president ladies and gentlemen, dealing a fatal blow to the people who think that our political system is in a tightening death spiral. 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Anastasis

[LonghornJudas 1090]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/justin-amash/

If you want to understand his rationale for the votes it makes, he provides a rationale for most of them on social media. 

 

He also holds the current day congressional record for most consecutive votes not missed at 4,289 over six-plus years.

He probably would still be going, but he missed a vote when he was talking to reporters about the Republicans' Obamacare replacement bill, which he absolutely hated btw.

I urge people to follow him on Twitter or Facebook because, as you said, he reads every bill and posts his reasoning for his vote.

Amash is a good dude.

[F250 28659]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

If he runs he should do so as a Republican rather than in the big L party.  He doesn't have a chance either way, but if he could force a debate or two it would be a better platform than another Libertarian party circus show debate.   

If he runs as a R in the primary he have a bigger platform than if he ran as an LP. However, any libertarian ideology he would try to promote would likely be drowned out by Trump making fart noises and doing a jerk off hand gesture.

As an LP candidate he at least has the potential to deny Trump a significant amount of votes in Michigan. It would suck seeing Amash go kamikaze with his political career for someone like Sleepy Joe.

Personally, I hope he just stays put in Congress and figures out a way to make a Senate run.

[Anastasis 23375]

10 minutes ago, F250 said:

Personally, I hope he just stays put in Congress and figures out a way to make a Senate run.

Why? So that he can be a handful of minority libertarian leaning voices in a minority caucus with no power in the House for the foreseeable future? Meh. We need those voices no doubt, but I say push in now if you want to make a move on the Senate in a few years. No better way to do that than the elevate a presidential run in this environment. Could he win reelection in 2020 to his house seat after a run at Trump?  I don't know, but I think that he might have a better chance after staking a position in opposition within the GOP in run up to 2020.  Surely no worse than staking a hopeless L race. Next Senate race would be 2024 during next presidential cycle. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

It is tempting for normal people to ignore our president when he starts ranting about treason and corruption at the FBI. I understand the temptation. I’m the object of many of his rants, and even I try to ignore him.

But we shouldn’t, because millions of good people believe what a president of the United States says. In normal times, that’s healthy. But not now, when the president is a liar who doesn’t care what damage he does to vital institutions. We must call out his lies that the FBI was corrupt and committed treason, that we spied on the Trump campaign and tried to defeat Donald Trump. We must constantly return to the stubborn facts.

Russia engaged in a massive effort to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. Near as I can tell, there is only one U.S. leader who still denies that fact. The FBI saw the attack starting in mid-June 2016, with the first dumping of stolen emails. In late July, when we were hard at work trying to understand the scope of the effort, we learned that one of Trump’s foreign policy advisers knew about the Russian effort seven weeks before we did.

In April 2016, that adviser talked to a Russian agent in London, learned that the Russians had obtained “dirt” on Hillary Clinton in the form of thousands of emails and that the Russians could assist the Trump campaign through the anonymous release of information damaging to Clinton. Of course, nobody from the Trump campaign told us this (or about later Russian approaches); we had to learn it, months after the fact, from an allied ambassador.

But when we finally learned of it in late July, what should the FBI have done? Let it go? Go tell the Trump campaign? Tell the press? No. Investigate, to see what the facts were. We didn’t know what was true. Maybe there was nothing to it, or maybe Americans were actively conspiring with the Russians. To find out, the FBI would live up to its name and investigate.

As director, I was determined that the work would be done carefully, professionally and discreetly. We were just starting. If there was nothing to it, we didn’t want to smear Americans. If there was something to it, we didn’t want to let corrupt Americans know we were onto them. So, we kept it secret. That’s how the FBI approaches all counterintelligence cases.

And there’s the first problem with Trump’s whole “treason” narrative. If we were “deep state” Clinton loyalists bent on stopping him, why would we keep it secret? Why wouldn’t the much-maligned FBI supervisor Peter Strzok — the alleged kingpin of the “treasonous” plot to stop Trump — tell anyone? He was one of the very few people who knew what we were investigating.

We investigated. We didn’t gather information about the campaign’s strategy. We didn’t “spy” on anyone’s campaign. We investigated to see whether it was true that Americans associated with the campaign had taken the Russians up on any offer of help. By late October, the investigators thought they had probable cause to get a federal court order to conduct electronic surveillance of a former Trump campaign adviser named Carter Page. Page was no longer with the campaign, but there was reason to believe he was acting as an agent of the Russian government. We asked a federal judge for permission to surveil him and then we did it, all without revealing our work, despite the fact that it was late October and a leak would have been very harmful to candidate Trump. Worst deep-state conspiracy ever.

But wait, the conspiracy idea gets dumber. On Oct. 28, after agonizing deliberation over two terrible options, I concluded I had no choice but to inform Congress that we had reopened the Clinton email investigation. I judged that hiding that fact — after having told Congress repeatedly and under oath that the case was finished — would be worse than telling Congress the truth. It was a decision William Barr praised and Hillary Clinton blamed for her loss 11 days later. Strzok, alleged architect of the treasonous plot to stop Trump, drafted the letter I sent Congress.

And there’s still more to the dumbness of the conspiracy allegation. At the center of the alleged FBI “corruption” we hear so much about was the conclusion that Deputy Director Andrew McCabe lied to internal investigators about a disclosure to the press in late October 2016. McCabe was fired over it. And what was that disclosure? Some stop-Trump election-eve screed? No. McCabe authorized a disclosure that revealed the FBI was actively investigating the Clinton Foundation, a disclosure that was harmful to Clinton.

There is a reason the non-fringe media doesn’t spend much time on this “treason” and “corruption” business. The conspiracy theory makes no sense. The FBI wasn’t out to get Donald Trump. It also wasn’t out to get Hillary Clinton. It was out to do its best to investigate serious matters while walking through a vicious political minefield.

But go ahead, investigate the investigators, if you must. When those investigations are over, you will find the work was done appropriately and focused only on discerning the truth of very serious allegations. There was no corruption. There was no treason. There was no attempted coup. Those are lies, and dumb lies at that. There were just good people trying to figure out what was true, under unprecedented circumstances.

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[Anastasis 23375]

14 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Jim should be breathing a sigh of relief that Trump set the goal posts for him at treason and coup. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

14 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Jim should be breathing a sigh of relief that Trump set the goal posts for him at treason and coup. 

I’m not a huge Comey fan, but do you take issue with any of the facts and reasoning he put forth there?

[Anastasis 23375]

1 minute ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I’m not a huge Comey fan, but do you take issue with any of the facts and reasoning he put forth there?

I think that Comey is right in the sense that Trump overplays his hand impulsively. I think that Comey has been spinning his moralizing and self-serving narrative through opinion pieces in NYT and Wapo to distract from the pivotal role that the FBI under his leadership played in the outcome of the 2016 election, and in effort to get out ahead of audit findings that will show that a number of standard operating procedures and processes were short circuited during Operation Crossfire Hurricane.  I think that Comey was influenced by Russian disinformation in his handling of the Clinton presser, and likely also in his handling of the investigation of Trump campaign contacts with Russian. I think the latter coalesces into deviation from SOPs related to the use of sources and the FISA process. I think that Comey is fortunate that Trump set the goal posts on the most extreme end of the spectrum, just like many of the wingnuts here set the collusion goals posts for Trump as the ludicrous end of the spectrum, with virtually zero chance of fulfillment. A smarter play from Trump in my opinion would have been to build a case around abuses of the surveillance apparatus, and the 4th amendment protections of US citizens.  Trump however deals in narcissism and marketing, TREASON! COUP!. The reality will always be closer to a grey center, and he doesn't really give a shit about the 4th amendment unless it relates to him anyways.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Oh, that sucks for Stone.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

10 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I think that Comey is right in the sense that Trump overplays his hand impulsively. I think that Comey has been spinning his moralizing and self-serving narrative through opinion pieces in NYT and Wapo to distract from the pivotal role that the FBI under his leadership played in the outcome of the 2016 election, and in effort to get out ahead of audit findings that will show that a number of standard operating procedures and processes were short circuited during Operation Crossfire Hurricane.  I think that Comey was influenced by Russian disinformation in his handling of the Clinton presser, and likely also in his handling of the investigation of Trump campaign contacts with Russian. I think the latter coalesces into deviation from SOPs related to the use of sources and the FISA process. I think that Comey is fortunate that Trump set the goal posts on the most extreme end of the spectrum, just like many of the wingnuts here set the collusion goals posts for Trump as the ludicrous end of the spectrum, with virtually zero chance of fulfillment. A smarter play from Trump in my opinion would have been to build a case around abuses of the surveillance apparatus, and the 4th amendment protections of US citizens.  Trump however deals in narcissism and marketing, TREASON! COUP!. The reality will always be closer to a grey center, and he doesn't really give a shit about the 4th amendment unless it relates to him anyways.

Way to not answer the question and go all Devin Nunes again 

[Anastasis 23375]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Way to not answer the question and go all Devin Nunes again 

There is not really much in the way of the detailed factual analysis in that opinion piece. It's a self serving puff piece by your man staring at trees, Hugo.  

[Anastasis 23375]

Oh, and speaking of wingnuts Hugo.

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

like many of the wingnuts here set the collusion goals posts for Trump as the ludicrous end of the spectrum, with virtually zero chance of fulfillment.

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

Well thanks for the answer.  I don’t agree with all of it but as self serving as Comey may be at least he is on the right side of the law.

What I learned is new in that piece was what McCabe was actually fired for.  Shitty, but humorous all things considered.

[triplehorn 2664]

23 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I think that Comey is right in the sense that Trump overplays his hand impulsively.

Fucking lol.  Comey said that ? No, he didn’t.

Comey calls him a liar.  Repeatedly.  

. “But not now, when the president is a liar who doesn’t care what damage he does to vital institutions. We must call out his lies that the FBI was corrupt and committed treason, that we spied on the Trump campaign and tried to defeat Donald Trump. We must constantly return to the stubborn facts.”

Trump is a lying criminal.

[Anastasis 23375]

Head wingnut checking in. 

[triplehorn 2664]

Some things you say are too ridiculous to let slide.  Or too easy to simply turn upside down.

You can’t call Trump the obvious liar that he is, then you fabricate something to avoid it.

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by triplehorn

[Anastasis 23375]

Trump is a narcissistic pathological liar. And you are a wingnut. 

[Captainant 27309]

19 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Trump is a narcissistic pathological liar. And you are a wingnut. 

Both sides in all things. Nice. 

[Anastasis 23375]

44 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

What I learned is new in that piece was what McCabe was actually fired for.  Shitty, but humorous all things considered.

Perfect example of Comey's self aggrandizing moralizations...

And there’s still more to the dumbness of the conspiracy allegation. At the center of the alleged FBI “corruption” we hear so much about was the conclusion that Deputy Director Andrew McCabe lied to internal investigators about a disclosure to the press in late October 2016. McCabe was fired over it. And what was that disclosure? Some stop-Trump election-eve screed? No. McCabe authorized a disclosure that revealed the FBI was actively investigating the Clinton Foundation, a disclosure that was harmful to Clinton.

From the OIG report.  McCabe's duplicity was lying to the OIG about the disclosure, and one of the pivotal aspects of the OIG's findings was the self serving purpose of that disclosure.  Comey can probably relate.

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2018-04-13 DOJ OIG to CEG - McCabe with ROI.pdf

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Anastasis

[Anastasis 23375]

14 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Both sides in all things. Nice. 

All the wingnuts come out like its a bat signal. Got to the bottom of that server conspiracy, or have you acknowledged that it is predicated on nonsense yet?

Edited May 29, 2019 by Anastasis

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

It’s remarkable there is now overwhelming evidence Russia attacked the United States but you can’t stop talking about Comey and the evil FBI.   You might as well be George Papadopolous or his dumbass wife. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

Personally I’ve never really gotten the whole “wingnut” thing. Just not specific enough really. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by JimmyJames

[Anastasis 23375]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s remarkable there is now overwhelming evidence Russia attacked the United States but you can’t stop talking about Comey and the evil FBI.   You might as well be George Papadopolous or his dumbass wife. 

 

Quite simply, the unconstitutional surveillance state is a greater threat to the liberty of US citizens and America's founding principles than Russian masturbation memes on social media are*. 

 

 

*Note: I am willing to consider that this assessment is wrong. But if it is indeed wrong, and absurd masturbation memes are able to bring the Republic and our democracy to its knees, nothing really matters. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Anastasis

[Anastasis 23375]

54 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Some things you say are too ridiculous to let slide.

Oh, and this is some of that prime grade lack of self awareness shit that keeps this thread fun. 

[bolverk 29359]

You'll get no argument from me nor the vast majority of liberals/progressives regarding the broader concerns about the surveillance state. What confounds me, however, is the way in which libertarians tend to side with conservatives and against liberals in the voting booth. Yeah, they'll pay lip service to civil liberties when it suits them but when it comes down to the brass tacks of choosing a Democrat or a Republican with no other choice in the voting booth, they inevitably default to Republican.

Sure, Democrats were exposed as unbelievably spineless in a one-time vote over the Patriot Act/FISA courts out of fear of being labeled "anti-American" by bloodthirsty conservatives who were eager to label any of us opposed to the war, but the surveillance state was the end result of a decades' long assault on civil liberties by the conservatives in this country.

Do they align themselves more with conservatives because they're more concerned with owning shit that liberals might take away (money and guns) than they are about the civil liberties that liberals have traditionally fought to preserve (privacy and freedom of speech)?

It should be no surprise that the traditionally conservative federal law enforcement (FBI) and foreign surveillance (CIA) agencies may have cut corners (still unproven at this point), but the gall of placing the blame of those sins on anti-Trump liberals, who are now trying to right the ship of state with rules created by the conservatives, is especially ironic considering those same libertarians have consistently supported at the ballot box the Republican Party that is primarily to blame for tearing down the protections of the 4th amendment and other civil protections whose losses they are now trying to lay blame on liberals and Never-Trumpers in the fight against this imbecilic orange cancer.

[triplehorn 2664]

35 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

All the wingnuts come out like its a bat signal. Got to the bottom of that server conspiracy, or have you acknowledged that it is predicated on nonsense yet?

 

You couldn't have picked a more lame brained example.  Manafort shared campaign polling data with the Russians about election battle ground states.  Whether the transfer of data for Russian use was via server email comms, physical transfer of thumb drives, or stacks of ditto paper is irrelevant.  Trump's campaign manager colluded with Russians on the election. 

Every fucking aspect of this entire investigation to date has forced Trump into a box of endless lies and gaslighting.

There was no coup.  There was no fabricated evidence or illegal acts perpetrated by the FBI or our IC.  

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

 

Quite simply, the unconstitutional surveillance state is a greater threat to the liberty of US citizens and America's founding principles than Russian masturbation memes on social media are*. 

 

 

*Note: I am willing to consider that this assessment is wrong. But if it is indeed wrong, and absurd masturbation memes are able to bring the Republic and our democracy to its knees, nothing really matters. 

I think the idea that elections may not be trustworthy due to external forces makes this a bigger threat to democracy than the surveillance state. Both problems. One far more the current priority. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

“Yeah, we might be in gulags for speaking out against the dear leader that Russia installed but at least there was no unconstitutional surveillance in the process of installing him.”

/Anastasis-FChorn

[David Dennison 18603]

 

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

 

Quite simply, the unconstitutional surveillance state is a greater threat to the liberty of US citizens and America's founding principles than Russian masturbation memes on social media are*. 

*Note: I am willing to consider that this assessment is wrong. But if it is indeed wrong, and absurd masturbation memes are able to bring the Republic and our democracy to its knees, nothing really matters. 

Is it?

[JimmyJames 12271]

Personally I think we should all recognize that when it comes to the net and many many other forms of modern communication, there really is no privacy, and therefore unless specific laws are passed to try to keep some semblance of privacy, there is also really no “surveillance state” on the net, or on many other current modern day mediums of communication.  The government is just doing what google has done since it was formed. 

China is currently showing the path of what can happen if the government doesn’t go unchecked. But until we all recognize the fact that nothing you really do or say anymore is private, then its hard to pass laws advocating privacy until the problem is universal acknowledged.

One issue though is that the millenials don’t really seem to have a problem with it. I don’t agree with that stance but my disagreement may be futile. 

[David Dennison 18603]

9 minutes ago, Ptown said:

If Russia buys some facebook likes, it means Donald Trump is traitor, and needs to be impeached. Members of the FBI, CIA, and DOJ Collude to undermined an election, and an elected president, nothing to see here. Lol

This thread is the number one reason why Trump will win again. You folk are fucking dumb and silly. Keep it up.

Those indictments should be coming any day now.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Head wingnut checking in. 

You know what's funny? Nancy Pelosi and I have exactly the same position on impeachment.