The Robert Mueller Investigation

[henrygandorf 29189]

2 minutes ago, Zavala said:

got an estimate on when the secrit plan will begin? 

Trump is for sure finished this time right?

absolutely, in 2020.

the timeline has not changed once.

[zork 629]

Are you ready for President Pence?  

I'm ok with President Pence.

[David Dennison 18856]

3 minutes ago, zork said:

Are you ready for President Pence?  

I'm ok with President Pence.

He is going to get so much ass.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

30 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Add to it whatever comes from Trump tax returns, Trump/Mazars accounting records, Trump/Deutsche Bank dealings via Congressional subpoenas, and god knows what else.  

 

recall the "high crimes and misdemeanors" requirement.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Another good day for Matt Whitaker.

[wildcat09 29352]

32 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

I get the feeling Pelosi knows exactly what's up and more importantly what else is in store straight ahead.

The greater than 10 cases of serial obstruction of justice by Trump detailed in the Mueller report will probably only be one part of articles impeachment.  Add to it whatever comes from Trump tax returns, Trump/Mazars accounting records, Trump/Deutsche Bank dealings via Congressional subpoenas, and god knows what else.  

I could be misreading it, but it sure feels like Pelosi also wants GOP Senate to know what real pain is, and she's going to take it there.

Pelosi isn't a master strategist just waiting for the moment to strike. She counts votes and she's afraid she doesn't have the votes to impeach right now, because some of the more moderate Democrats in purple districts are stupid idiots who think voting for impeachment after a month-long televised public inquiry into Trump's corruption would hurt their reelection chances. She's hoping that some more Republicans will pull an Amash and convince the more moderate Dems to support impeachment. She wants Amash to do her job.  

[SubliminalHorn 6786]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Pelosi isn't a master strategist just waiting for the moment to strike. She counts votes and she's afraid she doesn't have the votes to impeach right now, because some of the more moderate Democrats in purple districts are stupid idiots who think voting for impeachment after a month-long televised public inquiry into Trump's corruption would hurt their reelection chances. She's hoping that some more Republicans will pull an Amash and convince the more moderate Dems to support impeachment. She wants Amash to do her job.  

No way that she doesn’t have the votes in the House already

[henrygandorf 29189]

if the r's wanted pence to be president, all it would take is 20 senators and a call to pelosi's office.  

the fact that zero senators will budge is not quite a ringing endorsement for a pence presidency.

if somehow trump won in 2020, and pence ran in 2024, i bet trump wouldn't even tweet a word of support.

[wildcat09 29352]

1 minute ago, SubliminalHorn said:

No way that she doesn’t have the votes in the House already

If she had the votes she'd be pushing to impeach. There's no way a majority of the caucus is pushing her to do so and she's telling them to fuck off.

[wildcat09 29352]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

if the r's wanted pence to be president, all it would take is 20 senators and a call to pelosi's office.  

the fact that zero senators will budge is not quite a ringing endorsement for a pence presidency.

if somehow trump won in 2020, and pence ran in 2024, i bet trump wouldn't even tweet a word of support.

Pence was despised in heavily-Republican Indiana. They all know he's a fucking loser.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Broken link...will post when it works

Edited May 29, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[SubliminalHorn 6786]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

If she had the votes she'd be pushing to impeach. There's no way a majority of the caucus is pushing her to do so and she's telling them to fuck off.

Yeah I don’t buy it. She knows the votes aren’t there in the Senats, not the House. 

[David Dennison 18856]

I wonder what the whip count really is.

[Anastasis 23469]

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Another good day for Matt Whitaker.

That's the big dick toilet guy, right?

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

4 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

if the r's wanted pence to be president, all it would take is 20 senators and a call to pelosi's office.  

the fact that zero senators will budge is not quite a ringing endorsement for a pence presidency.

if somehow trump won in 2020, and pence ran in 2024, i bet trump wouldn't even tweet a word of support.

*all* it would take is 20 senators all agreeing that their re-election chances are not hurt by publicly going against a president that has as fanatical a following as david koresh.  

[wildcat09 29352]

1 minute ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Yeah I don’t buy it. She knows the votes aren’t there in the Senats, not the House. 

I refuse to believe she's too stupid to see the opportunity that would present for the Democrats in an election season.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

She just needs to open an impeachment inquiry and let the process play out. 

[Chooky 13307]

28 minutes ago, Zavala said:

secrit

Seriously? My God. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21195]

23 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

*all* it would take is 20 senators all agreeing that their re-election chances are not hurt by publicly going against a president that has as fanatical a following as david koresh.  

Yeah, God forbid they actually put the country above their personal ambitions.  That would be, like, doing their fucking duty. 

[hobbes2702 13032]

46 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Pelosi isn't a master strategist just waiting for the moment to strike. She counts votes and she's afraid she doesn't have the votes to impeach right now, because some of the more moderate Democrats in purple districts are stupid idiots who think voting for impeachment after a month-long televised public inquiry into Trump's corruption would hurt their reelection chances. She's hoping that some more Republicans will pull an Amash and convince the more moderate Dems to support impeachment. She wants Amash to do her job.  

Thank you. She isn’t Machiavelli. There isn’t some grand scheme. She is making a political calculation (incorrectly imo) about the likelihood of impeachment success and how that will effect 2020. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The thing is Pelosi can pull the impeachment trigger at any moment and be applauded for it.  As long as she eventually calls for impeachment there are few consequences for her stalling, except the optics of the day. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

29 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Yeah, God forbid they actually put the country above their personal ambitions.  That would be, like, doing their fucking duty. 

 

Welcome to DC the moose out front should have told ya.............

[Dbeasy 15047]

In my opinion, most people who tend towards a libertarian perspective are fucking wingnuts.  You included.

Example A - Ross Ulbricht from Austin Westlake, founder of the Silk Road.

[ChiTownDoc 21152]

3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Pelosi chimes in.  No impeachment today fellas. 

https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/52919/

Pelosi Statement on Special Counsel Mueller’s Press Statement Reiterating the President’s Obstruction

MAY 29, 2019

San Francisco – Speaker Nancy Pelosi issued this statement after Special Counsel Mueller made a press statement reiterating the extent of Russian efforts to disrupt our elections and that President Trump was not exonerated of obstructing the Trump-Russia investigation:

“It is with the greatest respect for Special Counsel Robert Mueller and the deepest disappointment in the Department of Justice holding the President above the law, that I thank Special Counsel Mueller for the work he and his team did to provide a record for future action both in the Congress and in the courts regarding the Trump Administration involvement in Russian interference and obstruction of the investigation.

“Special Counsel Mueller made clear that he did not exonerate the President when he stated, ‘If we had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.’  He stated that the decision not to indict stemmed directly from the Department of Justice’s policy that a sitting President cannot be indicted.  Despite Department of Justice policy to the contrary, no one is above the law – not even the President.

“The Special Counsel’s report revealed that the President’s campaign welcomed Russian interference in the election, and laid out eleven instances of the President’s obstruction of the investigation.  The Congress holds sacred its constitutional responsibility to investigate and hold the President accountable for his abuse of power.

“The Congress will continue to investigate and legislate to protect our elections and secure our democracy.  The American people must have the truth.  We call upon the Senate to pass H.R. 1, the For The People Act, to protect our election systems.

“We salute Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his team for his patriotic duty to seek the truth.”

Still too early.  If you're at the 5 yard line down 2, other team no timeouts, 1:20 left and it's first down... and have Adam V on the sidelines, you wait and run that fucker down before kicking.  Nancy needs to time this well, and that's exactly what she's doing.  I don't necessarily agree with it all but it's much better than not impeaching at all...I don't see that happening. 

[Michael Knight 12977]

Nothing is fucked here dude

Edited May 29, 2019 by Michael Knight

[Anastasis 23469]

12 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Still too early.  If you're at the 5 yard line down 2, other team no timeouts, 1:20 left and it's first down... and have Adam V on the sidelines, you wait and run that fucker down before kicking.  Nancy needs to time this well, and that's exactly what she's doing.  I don't necessarily agree with it all but it's much better than not impeaching at all...I don't see that happening. 

LOL. Watch the Democrats be like...

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Anastasis
f the nfl

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Impeachment is unavoidable at this point IMO.  The role the Senate is going to play in the process is up for speculation.  This is going to be contingent on the timing of the House. 

I know we’re supposed to believe the Senate will never convict but it appears the strategy is to make the Senate Republicans as uncomfortable as possible.  Stalling on impeachment kind of boils the frog. 

[Anastasis 23469]

Senate is not going to remove from office.  You needed definitive evidence of conspiring with Russia to get the GOP Senate to flip.  You need the brokerage, Trump funding Romanian hackers, Cohen coordinating with Prague shit for that.  But the House should still impeach. There is political value to getting GOP Senators on the record that wide spread obstruction of justice is acceptable. Doesn't matter the context of that obstruction. At this point, 2020 Senate races are in play.  That is the political calculus. What is the most damaging position that you can put Republican incumbents in. The most damaging political position is to make them deliberate removal from office and fail to act. 

[Foosters 17853]

 

It all makes sense now. Zavala is Louisiana's AG.

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Foosters

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

In theory, the Senate should never vote to convict a sitting president.  

If you knew the Senate was going to convict, why go through that process when the Senate can make a deal with the President and force resignation?

A Senate conviction should never happen under any circumstances for any president.

There are alternatives to the Senate not convicting.  

They could decide not to have a trial or hold a vote.  

 

[hayden_horn 11362]

4 minutes ago, Foosters said:

 

It all makes sense now. Zavala is Louisiana's AG.

 

jesus washington christ.

that flies in the face of any sort of legal precedent. he's just flat out disingenuously and cynically lying to whip up the frothy mouthbreathers. 

[Mdhorn 5949]

2 hours ago, triplehorn said:

I get the feeling Pelosi knows exactly what's up and more importantly what else is in store straight ahead.

The greater than 10 cases of serial obstruction of justice by Trump detailed in the Mueller report will probably only be one part of articles impeachment.  Add to it whatever comes from Trump tax returns, Trump/Mazars accounting records, Trump/Deutsche Bank dealings via Congressional subpoenas, and god knows what else.  

I could be misreading it, but it sure feels like Pelosi also wants GOP Senate to know what real pain is, and she's going to take it there.

Real pain would be taking it there and keeping her shoe on their throats in every press conference. She has the experience. Answer every question from here out with how does the president and Congress get away with obstruction and enabling Russian interference. Answer with this every single time until the press has to ask or answer these questions. Repeat it so it doesn't get forgotten or swept away before the election cycle.   Make them sign to dismissing impeachment so that when they exonerate him, future generations will know exactly who did it, allowed for it and why.  There's a Ken Burns series.  And if they don't, there will be a place in history for those Democrats as enablers.  

The whole riling of their base is what Republican talking points do perpetually.  The base is always going to show up. They're reliable. It didn't matter during the midterms. And fight the goddamn gerrymandering and voter suppression.  Fight them in the courts.  

[Mdhorn 5949]

19 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Impeachment is unavoidable at this point IMO.  The role the Senate is going to play in the process is up for speculation.  This is going to be contingent on the timing of the House. 

I know we’re supposed to believe the Senate will never convict but it appears the strategy is to make the Senate Republicans as uncomfortable as possible.  Stalling on impeachment kind of boils the frog. 

I hope this is right but it also relies on intelligence and memory. That's a lot of trust you're placing on voters.  

[David Dennison 18856]

Best.

Summer.

Ever.

[Dbeasy 15047]

Wow pretty powerful speech from Mueller.

[JimmyJames 12271]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

He is going to get so much ass.

We’re talking so much ass, its gonna be sick. I’m talking like crazy boy band ass. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

There really is no way to spin it. Today was not a good day for team trump. 

The truth always comes out eventually. 

[henrygandorf 29189]

27 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Impeachment is unavoidable at this point IMO.  The role the Senate is going to play in the process is up for speculation.  This is going to be contingent on the timing of the House. 

I know we’re supposed to believe the Senate will never convict but it appears the strategy is to make the Senate Republicans as uncomfortable as possible.  Stalling on impeachment kind of boils the frog. 

dude, stop.  it's not happening.  never ever ever ever.

will they get heat from the press?  will they be "uncomfortable"?  will people think less of them?  all likely yes.  will it matter?  definitely no.

voting along party lines ensures political cover.  they'll still have support from the right - the same support that got them elected.  the only way to jeopardize future election results is to go out on a limb by yourself.

i think pelosi should force the senate to vote, but they'll never vote to remove.  never.

[Patrick Bateman 3912]

Let's face it, all of this could have been avoided if Mueller and his team would have either given clear recommendations about future courses of action or gave more clarity if they wanted to pursue bringing charges but were told explicitly by the OLC (and not operating under their previous guidance) they couldn't.  Mueller's lack of clarity and vagueness are part of the issues and allows every side to infer, interpret, manipulate, etc his work.  In some ways, he's hiding behind the report for fear of politicizing his work, but for some reason he's letting everyone else define his report and his work.

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

dude, stop.  it's not happening.  never ever ever ever.

will they get heat from the press?  will they be "uncomfortable"?  will people think less of them?  all likely yes.  will it matter?  definitely no.

voting along party lines ensures political cover.  they'll still have support from the right - the same support that got them elected.  the only way to jeopardize future election results is to go out on a limb by yourself.

i think pelosi should force the senate to vote, but they'll never vote to remove.  never.

True. But the middle is gonna punish them for it. That’s the endgame here. 

[RPM 26318]

24 minutes ago, Foosters said:

 

It all makes sense now. Zavala is Louisiana's AG.

 

I agree with him. We need to get Donald Trump into a courtroom under oath. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

7 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Let's face it, all of this could have been avoided if Mueller and his team would have either given clear recommendations about future courses of action or gave more clarity if they wanted to pursue bringing charges but were told explicitly by the OLC (and not operating under their previous guidance) they couldn't.  Mueller's lack of clarity and vagueness are part of the issues and allows every side to infer, interpret, manipulate, etc his work.  In some ways, he's hiding behind the report for fear of politicizing his work, but for some reason he's letting everyone else define his report and his work.

He did the only thing he could do.  He cannot even appear to accuse the president of a crime.  Any appearance of breaking policy, protocol or appearing political gives Republicans actual reasons to discount the whole thing and sweep it under the rug.  Fair or not.  He did all he could do, and laid out a case for those who have the ability to make it.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Judge Roybeanbag

[henrygandorf 29189]

13 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Let's face it, all of this could have been avoided if Mueller and his team would have either given clear recommendations about future courses of action or gave more clarity if they wanted to pursue bringing charges but were told explicitly by the OLC (and not operating under their previous guidance) they couldn't.  Mueller's lack of clarity and vagueness are part of the issues and allows every side to infer, interpret, manipulate, etc his work.  In some ways, he's hiding behind the report for fear of politicizing his work, but for some reason he's letting everyone else define his report and his work.

he did what he was supposed to do.  he's a by-the-book kinda guy.  in a normal situation, it would've been fine.

barr + trump = not a normal situation.

[henrygandorf 29189]

12 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

True. But the middle is gonna punish them for it. That’s the endgame here. 

from your mouth to god's ears.

[triplehorn 2664]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

In theory, the Senate should never vote to convict a sitting president.  

If you knew the Senate was going to convict, why go through that process when the Senate can make a deal with the President and force resignation?

A Senate conviction should never happen under any circumstances for any president.

There are alternatives to the Senate not convicting.  

They could decide not to have a trial or hold a vote.  

 

The absolute last thing the Senate wants to do is face an impeached Trump who refuses to resign, and become the ones publicly saddled with enabling criminality and mass corruption.  The Amash town hall is a warning about which side the public is on in this matter. 

The House investigations currently running through the courts are de facto impeachment related processes without naming them that.  Let it build through the summer and get a little closer to the Roger Stone/Russian-linked criminal trial this Fall and the kickoff to the 2020 campaign in earnest, and then see what Mitch "grim reaper" McConnell can hew.  Hell, one or more of those 14 farmed out Mueller investigations could also start making waves in the next 6-9 months before the real campaign fun starts.

[Anastasis 23469]

I think that the timeline should focus on Easter 2020. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

44 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

dude, stop.  it's not happening.  never ever ever ever.

will they get heat from the press?  will they be "uncomfortable"?  will people think less of them?  all likely yes.  will it matter?  definitely no.

voting along party lines ensures political cover.  they'll still have support from the right - the same support that got them elected.  the only way to jeopardize future election results is to go out on a limb by yourself.

i think pelosi should force the senate to vote, but they'll never vote to remove.  never.

You misinterpreted what I was saying. The Senate will never vote to convict, ever.  That doesn’t mean starting the impeachment process is a win for Trump or the Republicans.  In fact, it’s possible it removes Trump via election loss or resignation without the Senate ever taking a vote.  It depends on how good the democrats make the case.  They don’t even have to vote to impeach in the House, they could create an unbearable environment for republicans where Trump resigning is the best option for the GOP or get annihilated in the 2020 election.  

They have the tools to try to make this happen but I’m counting on them to fuck it up. 

Of course, the right thing to do is to begin the impeachment process now because the facts demand it. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[triplehorn 2664]

ha ha, we got a squeal out of Dersh today:

Dershowitz: Shame on Robert Mueller for exceeding his role

"Until today, I have defended Mueller against the accusations that he is a partisan. I did not believe that he personally favored either the Democrats or the Republicans, or had a point of view on whether President Trump should be impeached. But I have now changed my mind. By putting his thumb, indeed his elbow, on the scale of justice in favor of impeachment based on obstruction of justice, Mueller has revealed his partisan bias. He also has distorted the critical role of a prosecutor in our justice system.

[..]

No prosecutor should ever say or do anything for the purpose of helping one party or the other. I cannot imagine a plausible reason why Mueller went beyond his report and gratuitously suggested that President Trump might be guilty, except to help Democrats in Congress and to encourage impeachment talk and action. Shame on Mueller for abusing his position of trust and for allowing himself to be used for such partisan advantage."

 

Go have a little cry in AG Barr's arms.  I'm sure his feelings are a little tender too.  Having your false fabricated conclusion flatly contradicted by the Special Counsel in person and all.

[tantric superman 4667]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Senate is not going to remove from office.  You needed definitive evidence of conspiring with Russia to get the GOP Senate to flip.  You need the brokerage, Trump funding Romanian hackers, Cohen coordinating with Prague shit for that.  But the House should still impeach. There is political value to getting GOP Senators on the record that wide spread obstruction of justice is acceptable. Doesn't matter the context of that obstruction. At this point, 2020 Senate races are in play.  That is the political calculus. What is the most damaging position that you can put Republican incumbents in. The most damaging political position is to make them deliberate removal from office and fail to act. 

You just need some evidence of obstruction.  It's in the report.

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

ha ha, we got a squeal out of Dersh today:

Dershowitz: Shame on Robert Mueller for exceeding his role

"Until today, I have defended Mueller against the accusations that he is a partisan. I did not believe that he personally favored either the Democrats or the Republicans, or had a point of view on whether President Trump should be impeached. But I have now changed my mind. By putting his thumb, indeed his elbow, on the scale of justice in favor of impeachment based on obstruction of justice, Mueller has revealed his partisan bias. He also has distorted the critical role of a prosecutor in our justice system.

[..]

No prosecutor should ever say or do anything for the purpose of helping one party or the other. I cannot imagine a plausible reason why Mueller went beyond his report and gratuitously suggested that President Trump might be guilty, except to help Democrats in Congress and to encourage impeachment talk and action. Shame on Mueller for abusing his position of trust and for allowing himself to be used for such partisan advantage."

 

Go have a little cry in AG Barr's arms.  I'm sure his feelings are a little tender too.  Having your false fabricated conclusion flatly contradicted by the Special Counsel in person and all.

This clinches it. Team trump is worried about what Mueller said today and is worried about impeachment.

Dershowitz is worried about going to prison for fucking 16 year olds (allegedly). Will be easier to avoid that if Trump is in office.