The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

5 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

There is absolutely no way that Trump ever takes a resignation deal.  He will fight it all the way to the end.  Hell, he may not even leave voluntarily if he loses 2020.

Nah, he’d buckle like a bitch.  He needs to control the narrative on his exit strategy.  Better to resign, take a blanket pardon, and blame the democrats than get convicted and immediately prosecuted. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Look at Hugo thinking trump would honor any deal.

Still have to get the FEC and the states to agree to put him on the ballot.  That would be a tough sell. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Nah, he’d buckle like a bitch.  He needs to control the narrative on his exit strategy.  Better to resign, take a blanket pardon, and blame the democrats than get convicted and immediately prosecuted. 

Convicted by this Senate?  What he will do is play brinksmanship, dare the Senate to remove him, and tell them to fuck off with their deal. And he will do that because he will expect them to buckle because they always do. The only way they can prove to him they mean business is to actually vote him out, and once they do that, there will be no deal on the table. 

That being said, this Senate is as shitty as him. They won't remove him no matter what he has done. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by FondrenRoad

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

Convicted by this Senate?  What he will do is play brinksmanship, dare the Senate to remove him, and tell them to fuck off with their deal. And he will do that because he will expect them to buckle because they always do. The only way they can prove to him they mean business is to actually vote him out, and once they do that, there will be no deal on the table. 

Yep. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Well yeah, we’re way into fantasy land thinking the Senate would grow a spine.  But if they did, Trump would cave like he always does.  

[henrygandorf 29226]

he's not resigning.

i can't believe i have to keep repeating this.

he's also not dropping out of the race for any reason.  i would assume he has already told people to keep him on the ballot even if he's unconscious or dead.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Don’t worry, I’m the only one that thinks he resigns in the end.  

[TornACL 7792]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

he's not resigning.

i can't believe i have to keep repeating this.

he's also not dropping out of the race for any reason.  i would assume he has already told people to keep him on the ballot even if he's unconscious or dead.

 

There's a lot of fantasy projection going on here. I agree, there is no way in hell he would ever resign. When has he ever admitted defeat about anything whatsoever, even the most trivial of facts or issues?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[henrygandorf 29226]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Don’t worry, I’m the only one that thinks he resigns in the end.  

you're right about a lot.  but not about this.

you're trying to imagine that he thinks like a normal human person.

[Js1 87186]

5 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

he's not resigning.

i can't believe i have to keep repeating this.

he's also not dropping out of the race for any reason.  i would assume he has already told people to keep him on the ballot even if he's unconscious or dead.

 

The presidency is not a business you can just declare bankruptcy and walk away.

The presidency is not a wife you can just leave for a better looking one.

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

1 minute ago, TornACL said:

There's a lot of fantasy projection going on here. I agree, there is no way in hell he would ever resign. When has he ever admitted defeat about anything whatsoever, even the most trivial of facts or issues?

Exactly, he lies or spins the news.

Sorry but that isn't possible when you quit as the POTUS.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, TornACL said:

There's a lot of fantasy projection going on here. I agree, there is no way in hell he would ever resign. When has he ever admitted defeat about anything whatsoever, even the most trivial of facts or issues?

Did you forget how the government shutdown ended?  How about the businesses he bankrupted? What about his marriages?  He fought for Trump University until he settled.  Trump vodka? Trump steaks? 

He’s a fraud and a coward.  He will throw in the towel when he’s cornered.  This isn’t going to have a Scarface ending.

JMO

[suddenly shaggy 929]

31 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Well this is about as terrifying as it gets when it comes to national security. 

Worst case scenario:  someone discovered Trump and his entire family are spies for multiple foreign governments and the investigation was squashed the moment Comey was fired.  

Even if the above has any truth to it, there’s no way Trump’s people could get the appropriate security clearances to compromise our entire intelligence services. 

Best case scenario:  I don’t know but it’s still really bad. 

Not hard to figure that one out. Nunes is on the Gang of 8 along with McConnell. Any Gang of 8 briefing would be sent to Trump immediately.

[henrygandorf 29226]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Did you forget how the government shutdown ended?  How about the businesses he bankrupted? What about his marriages?  He fought for Trump University until he settled.  Trump vodka? Trump steaks? 

He’s a fraud and a coward.  He will throw in the towel when he’s cornered.  This isn’t going to have a Scarface ending.

JMO

he still claims victory in pretty much all of those examples.

there's no possible spin of victory by resigning.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

 

there's no possible spin of victory by resigning.

Trump would find a way.  It’s the only talent he has.

[TornACL 7792]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Did you forget how the government shutdown ended?  How about the businesses he bankrupted? What about his marriages?  He fought for Trump University until he settled.  Trump vodka? Trump steaks? 

He’s a fraud and a coward.  He will throw in the towel when he’s cornered.  This isn’t going to have a Scarface ending.

JMO

Bankruptcies and settlements and closed businesses happen out of the public view, for the most part.  Equating those actions to stepping down voluntarily from the highest office in the land is absurd.

I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that Trump, HE HIMSELF, is involved in all that shit. Trump didn't fight for Trump University. Like the steaks, like the airline, he's a grifter that just slaps his name on something and then lets some other crony run the business. And so when it craters or otherwise is a complete piece of shit, he has plausible deniability. I put someone on that project, he was a complete disaster, I had to fire him.

Will he make public statements defending his bullshit con jobs? Of course, when he's asked about it. But only because his primary mission in life at every single point is to defend and uplift TRUMP. The brand, the man, the con. You must always keep up the con. He isn't going to have some moment of enlightenment, like a bad guy at the end of a shitty movie, and suddenly realize he's a piece of shit who's always been a piece of shit, and he should resign. That is just fantasy talk.

 

[henrygandorf 29226]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trump would find a way.  It’s the only talent he has.

the day after he leaves the white house, twitter needs to ban him.

seriously, his head would explode.

[henrygandorf 29226]

3 minutes ago, TornACL said:

Will he make public statements defending his bullshit con jobs? Of course, when he's asked about it. But only because his primary mission in life at every single point is to defend and uplift TRUMP. The brand, the man, the con. You must always keep up the con. He isn't going to have some moment of enlightenment, like a bad guy at the end of a shitty movie, and suddenly realize he's a piece of shit who's always been a piece of shit, and he should resign. That is just fantasy talk.

 

yep, he called me an icon.  i wouldn't have said it, but people are saying icon.

sir, he said con, not icon.

oh, well i heard icon.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, TornACL said:

Bankruptcies and settlements and closed businesses happen out of the public view, for the most part.  Equating those actions to stepping down voluntarily from the highest office in the land is absurd.

I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that Trump, HE HIMSELF, is involved in all that shit. Trump didn't fight for Trump University. Like the steaks, like the airline, he's a grifter that just slaps his name on something and then lets some other crony run the business. And so when it craters or otherwise is a complete piece of shit, he has plausible deniability. I put someone on that project, he was a complete disaster, I had to fire him.

Will he make public statements defending his bullshit con jobs? Of course, when he's asked about it. But only because his primary mission in life at every single point is to defend and uplift TRUMP. The brand, the man, the con. You must always keep up the con. He isn't going to have some moment of enlightenment, like a bad guy at the end of a shitty movie, and suddenly realize he's a piece of shit who's always been a piece of shit, and he should resign. That is just fantasy talk.

 

I think he resigns to protect his brand and keep whatever he has left of the con going.  Trump still sees Nixon as a good president that got screwed, and so do several Americans.   

The only question is how humiliating will the alternative to resigning be? 

[henrygandorf 29226]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I think he resigns to protect his brand and keep whatever he has left of the con going.  Trump still sees Nixon as a good president that got screwed, and so do several Americans.   

The only question is how humiliating will the alternative to resigning be? 

the alternative will be getting voted out - something he can, and will, blame on others/foul play/whatever he thinks of.  resigning is something he can't blame away.  it would be an admission that he's not fully in charge of everything around him - something he's never going to do.

once he loses the election, he will have lawsuits in every state, demand recounts, it will be fucking ugly from nov to january.  count on that.

he will die telling everyone that the count was wrong and he really won, but the media/angry democrats screwed him out of anger/pettiness/jealousy.

[Jiggy-Z 3509]

2 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

the alternative will be getting voted out - something he can, and will, blame on others/foul play/whatever he thinks of.  resigning is something he can't blame away.  it would be an admission that he's not fully in charge of everything around him - something he's never going to do.

once he loses the election, he will have lawsuits in every state, demand recounts, it will be fucking ugly from nov to january.  count on that.

he will die telling everyone that the count was wrong and he really won, but the media/angry democrats screwed him out of anger/pettiness/jealousy.

That is how this is going to go...and don't forget 30% of this country will be right there with him.

[TornACL 7792]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

the alternative will be getting voted out - something he can, and will, blame on others/foul play/whatever he thinks of.  resigning is something he can't blame away.  it would be an admission that he's not fully in charge of everything around him - something he's never going to do.

once he loses the election, he will have lawsuits in every state, demand recounts, it will be fucking ugly from nov to january.  count on that.

he will die telling everyone that the count was wrong and he really won, but the media/angry democrats screwed him out of anger/pettiness/jealousy.

The thing about being outraged all the time is that you never have to have any personal accountability. It's also the same reason why the deplorables love to love him.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

My prediction is he resigns after losing re-election...for the pardon.  

State crimes yada yada yada but he’s still going to want out of all those federal crimes.  This would be the ultimate Trump move.  He leaves feeling like he played and beat the system on the way out.  That makes him smart, like not paying taxes. 

[David Dennison 19542]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

My prediction is he resigns after losing re-election...for the pardon.  

State crimes yada yada yada but he’s still going to want out of all those federal crimes.  This would be the ultimate Trump move.  He leaves feeling like he played and beat the system on the way out.  That makes him smart, like not paying taxes. 

You think Mike Pence is down with torching his political career for Donald Trump?

[henrygandorf 29226]

i'm not sure what crimes fall under which jurisdictions, but i don't know if his federal crimes are worse than his state crimes.

i think there's pretty strong evidence that he broke tax/insurance laws way before he was president.

the make-believe pardon would probably clear the campaign finance laws.

sdny is what he needs to worry about.

[Js1 87186]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You think Mike Pence is down with torching his political career for Donald Trump?

What is 61 year old Mike Pence going to do after 2020? Run for president as a 65 year old in 2024 against an incumbent Democrat who just kicked Trump's ass in the previous election?  The current Indiana governor is in his early 50s.  Todd Young is 46.  Mike Braun just got elected 8 months ago- unless he's only serving one term.  Pence is done after 2020 if Trump loses.

The only political future Mike Pence has is running the State of Gilead from his nursing home. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Js1

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You think Mike Pence is down with torching his political career for Donald Trump?

You think he would be punished by Republicans for pardoning god emperor Trump?   Lol no, Pence will be a GOP legend, at least in the short term. 

[David Dennison 19542]

Just now, Js1 said:

What is 61 year old Mike Pence going to do after 2020? Run for president as a 65 year old in 2024 against an incumbent Democrat who just kicked Trump's ass in the previous election?  The current Indiana governor is in his early 50s.  Todd Young is 46.  Mike Braun just got elected 8 months ago- unless he's only serving one term.  Pence is done after 2020 if Trump loses.

Absolutely.

[Js1 87186]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Absolutely.

He'll have to fight Ted Cruz, Nikki Haley and Tom Cotton for that.  All of whom will be much younger. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Js1

[David Dennison 19542]

Just now, Js1 said:

He'll have to fight Ted Cruz, Nikki Haley and Tom Cotton for that.  All of whom will be much younger. 

Yes.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Another angle to Mueller not charging Trump with a dozen counts of obstruction of justice into the Russia investigation is Trump can’t pardon himself, because no crime was charged.

I’m not sure if Mueller factored this in but say he did indict Trump only to have Trump pardon himself, which would likely go to the Supreme Court and...  

You’re my boy Kavanaugh! 

[David Dennison 19542]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Another angle to Mueller not charging Trump with a dozen counts of obstruction of justice into the Russia investigation is Trump can’t pardon himself, because no crime was charged.

I’m not sure if Mueller factored this in but say he did indict Trump only to have Trump pardon himself, which would likely go to the Supreme Court and...  

You’re my boy Kavanaugh! 

Who has standing to challenge a presidential pardon?

[NWBuck 8629]

16 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You think Mike Pence is down with torching his political career for Donald Trump?

He was governor of Indiana. That makes him in charge of a tire fire... torching might just be in his DNA.

[Horndog 2300]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Another angle to Mueller not charging Trump with a dozen counts of obstruction of justice into the Russia investigation is Trump can’t pardon himself, because no crime was charged.

I’m not sure if Mueller factored this in but say he did indict Trump only to have Trump pardon himself, which would likely go to the Supreme Court and...  

You’re my boy Kavanaugh! 

Formal charges are not a prerequisite for a pardon.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13629]

33 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i think there's pretty strong evidence that he broke tax/insurance laws way before he was president.

 

It's funny this can be stated about the president and there still be a need to narrow down what's being referenced. Yup, he's been found guilty twice for tax fraud, but it's almost certain he's committed more.

[triplehorn 2664]

4 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

 

It's funny this can be stated about the president and there still be a need to narrow down what's being referenced. Yup, he's been found guilty twice for tax fraud, but it's almost certain he's committed more.

Individual 1.  His obedient former personal attorney is already warming an aluminum donut for him at Rikers.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The best people

[triplehorn 2664]

First thing this morning House Intel announced it has subpoenaed former Trump Campaign Deputy Campaign Rick Gates and former White House National Security Advisor Michael Flynn for documents and testimony.

I wonder if this helps explain Trump’s stance yesterday of “Sure, I’d collude again!”

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

All these subpoenas are irrelevant unless we get some public testimony from these witnesses. 

I hate passing judgment early but I can’t help but argue how the democrats are handling this is borderline political malpractice.   

Trump has ONE glaring and easily exploitable weakness but the democrats are CHOOSING to protect Trump from what he fears most:  Public Humiliation.  

Trump has no internal shame but what he does care about most is how others perceive him.   Sustained and illuminating public hearings with fact witnesses is a tool in Pelosi’s toolbox and she is DECIDING not to wield this weapon because...???  WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?  Are you really afraid to poke the dotard?    

The only thing that will slow Trump down from his onslaught on American democracy is to have fact witnesses publicly testify before Congress on national television, as much as possible. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[David Dennison 19542]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

All these subpoenas are irrelevant unless we get some public testimony from these witnesses. 

I hate passing judgment early but I can’t help but argue how the democrats are handling this is borderline political malpractice.   

Trump has ONE glaring and easily exploitable weakness but the democrats are CHOOSING to protect Trump from what he fears most:  Public Humiliation.  

Trump has no internal shame but what he does care about most is how others perceive him.   Sustained and illuminating public hearings with fact witnesses is a tool in Pelosi’s toolbox and she is DECIDING not to wield this weapon because...???  WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?  Are you really afraid to poke the dotard?    

The only thing that will slow Trump down from his onslaught on American democracy is to have  fact witnesses publicly testify before Congress on national television, as much as possible. 

The fact witnesses are refusing to show up. That means they have to be subpoenaed. That puts it in the courts. 

It will take a while.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

15 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The fact witnesses are refusing to show up. That means they have to be subpoenaed. That puts it in the courts. 

It will take a while.

Lulz, whatever.  They can call 1000 federal prosecutors while they wait on the following:  

Rod Rosenstein, Andrew Weissman, David Pecker, Felix Sater, Jared Kushner, James Mattis, Rex Tillerson, Jeff Sessions, Corey Lewandowski, Rob Porter, H.R. McMaster, Robert Mueller, David Weitzlberg, Sean Spicer, John Down, Ty Cobb, Stormie Daniels, Hillary Clinton, Clint Watts, Rinat Akmenshin, Bill Browder, Glenn Simpson, and a hundred others involved in this scandal.  

They aren’t even attempting.  It’s “let’s subpoena Don McGahn and Bill Barr let that fail and then wait a few weeks to subpoena Hope Hicks” to answer questions behind closed doors as if whatever she has to say isn’t already in Mueller’s files somewhere.  This is even more disturbing when you consider the gravity of this situation.  

The Republicans approached the bullshit Benghazi hearings with a stronger sense of urgency and purpose.  The democrats can’t even pretend to fight for the protection of American democracy when the attack is coming from inside the White House. 

Sad!

[retread 2951]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The only thing that will slow Trump down from his onslaught on American democracy is to have fact witnesses publicly testify before Congress on national television, as much as possible. 

imo an impeachment inquiry is the only way to focus the investigation and boost public awareness/interest. All of these separate committees being jilted by witnesses is just noise to the average American. And then, is there any guarantee that they'll fully cooperate w their testimony? IIRC, several witnesses were not fully cooperative in their testimony before the HPSCI.

[4th&Five 42005]

Wrong thread 

Edited June 13, 2019 by 4th&Five

[NWBuck 8629]

10 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The breast people

FIFM (hopefully)

Edited June 13, 2019 by NWBuck

[David Dennison 19542]

3 hours ago, retread said:

imo an impeachment inquiry is the only way to focus the investigation and boost public awareness/interest. All of these separate committees being jilted by witnesses is just noise to the average American. And then, is there any guarantee that they'll fully cooperate w their testimony? IIRC, several witnesses were not fully cooperative in their testimony before the HPSCI.

An impeachment inquiry won't make any of this go any faster. All of these folks will still have to be subpoenaed, they'd still refuse, and we'd still wind up with months or years of court cases.

[henrygandorf 29226]

3 hours ago, retread said:

imo an impeachment inquiry is the only way to focus the investigation and boost public awareness/interest. All of these separate committees being jilted by witnesses is just noise to the average American. And then, is there any guarantee that they'll fully cooperate w their testimony? IIRC, several witnesses were not fully cooperative in their testimony before the HPSCI.

heh.  it's not like post-muller report trump is just kicking ass as president.  with every day comes a new embarrassing fuckup. 

yeah, it would be great if the nation was more informed, but even if they're not, trump will get destroyed in 2020.  the hearings will slowly happen, and most won't be public (although news that the hope hicks transcript will be released to the public is encouraging).  it'll continue on through 2020, and likely never make it to an actual "impeachment" hearing level, but it won't matter.

[TexEx15 17952]

13 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The best people

How in the hell did she do a damn thing to keep this country on the “right course”.  It amazes me that Trumpkins fall for this bullshit.

[Blotto 24022]

11 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

How in the hell did she do a damn thing to keep this country on the “right course”.  It amazes me that Trumpkins fall for this bullshit.

The GOP works in mysterious ways