The Robert Mueller Investigation

[0xdeadbeef 1626]

Both Impeachment and Immigration are losing positions for the Dems in 2020.  While there is something to be said to pandering to your base for raising large sums of money, ultimately,  impeachment will lead to nothing. There is no more chance they will be able to remove Trump via impeachment than with the 25th amendment.  (Remember when that talk was all the rage; it didn't really work out did it.).    If anyone thinks that just an impeachment itself coming from this Hyperpartisan House would change anyone mind they are  crazy.   The only chance this had to work was if Mueller's report came back with a smoking gun.   It didn't.

 

[Biff Tannen 45495]

Drew seems pretty sure of himself.  We should all trust him.  2020 in the bag for the Ds!

[washparkhorn 9935]

One should never underestimate the incompetence of leaders running the Democratic Party. 

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

5 minutes ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

Immigration are losing positions for the Dems in 2020. 

That’s what conservative media said in the lead up before 2018 when immigration was the centerpiece of issues- then a record number of people voted Dem...

[triplehorn 2664]

Bam!  3 come right out of the woodwork. 

wah wah.

This is why Dems need to get Trump's financials. 

 

[Dahobbs 17447]

8 minutes ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

Both Impeachment and Immigration are losing positions for the Dems in 2020.  While there is something to be said to pandering to your base for raising large sums of money, ultimately,  impeachment will lead to nothing. There is no more chance they will be able to remove Trump via impeachment than with the 25th amendment.  (Remember when that talk was all the rage; it didn't really work out did it.).    If anyone thinks that just an impeachment itself coming from this Hyperpartisan House would change anyone mind they are  crazy.   The only chance this had to work was if Mueller's report came back with a smoking gun.   It didn't.

 

What? The report that laid out factually that the President committed obstruction of justice? The immigration issue that resulted in the Democrats taking over the House? And seriously, calling the House hyperpartisan as if it wasn't the Republicans that created and fanned the flames hyperpartisanship over the last 10 years?

[retread 2951]

You just have to laugh at the Ds dancing around calling it an inquiry. Regardless, good for them for going on offense. Hope they keep it up.

[GW Hayduke 1952]

I agree immigration currently is not a winning issue for Dems. This is sad but very true. Immigration is red meat to Trump/Bannon's version of identity politics.  The emotional fear  and tribalism triggered by immigration is a powerful issue.  Look at what is has done across Europe.

I don't know yet if impeachment is a winning or losing issue for the Dems.  I'm hoping more crimes pop-up, hopefully from trump's finances, and impeachment can become a winning issue.

[Horn Dog 9672]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'd say we got the gal to agree to a date, but dinner and drinks are gonna have to go really well if we expect to close the deal.

Yea, but Squi is our wingman and we don’t need consent. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Horn Dog

[GW Hayduke 1952]

6 minutes ago, retread said:

You just have to laugh at the Ds dancing around calling it an inquiry. Regardless, good for them for going on offense. Hope they keep it up.

No one should be laughing and this isn't some big offensive step. They are simply doing what they need to in order to get information from the administration and DOJ

[David Dennison 18657]

7 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

I agree immigration currently is not a winning issue for Dems. This is sad but very true. Immigration is red meat to Trump/Bannon's version of identity politics.  The emotional fear  and tribalism triggered by immigration is a powerful issue.  Look at what is has done across Europe.

I don't know yet if impeachment is a winning or losing issue for the Dems.  I'm hoping more crimes pop-up, hopefully from trump's finances, and impeachment can become a winning issue.

One thing is certain, non-removal by the Senate will be portrayed by the White House, the Trump campaign, the GOP, and the media as a political victory for Donald Trump. That will happen.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

9 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

One thing is certain, non-removal by the Senate will be portrayed by the White House, the Trump campaign, the GOP, and the media as a political victory for Donald Trump. That will happen.

Not as big of a political win as non-impeachment by a Democratic House. 

[henrygandorf 29177]

21 minutes ago, retread said:

You just have to laugh at the Ds dancing around calling it an inquiry. Regardless, good for them for going on offense. Hope they keep it up.

my understanding was that it was always going to start with an inquiry. 

[Biff Tannen 45495]

10 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

One thing is certain, non-removal by the Senate will be portrayed by the White House, the Trump campaign, the GOP, and the media as a political victory for Donald Trump. That will happen.

This is going to happen either way.  I want these fucks all on record.

[henrygandorf 29177]

11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

One thing is certain, non-removal by the Senate will be portrayed by the White House, the Trump campaign, the GOP, and the media as a political victory for Donald Trump. That will happen.

he claims victory about everything regardless. 

[retread 2951]

2 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

my understanding was that it was always going to start with an inquiry. 

Yes. I guess that's basically where we are now, but for some reason the Ds don't want to call it that.

[David Dennison 18657]

2 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

he claims victory about everything regardless. 

He wouldn't if he were removed.

[Biff Tannen 45495]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

He wouldn't if he were removed.

Sure he would.  He'll be claiming victory on his way to the gallows.

[DixonHur 11217]

27 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

One thing is certain, non-removal by the Senate will be portrayed by the White House, the Trump campaign, the GOP, and the media as a political victory for Donald Trump. That will happen.

Let them try.  Nothing is going to move the needle for Trumpkins anyway.  Those cultists would still vote for him if he went door to door calling them all stupid to their faces.. 

The truth is that probably 90+% of the country hasn't read the Mueller report so bringing it out into the light of day will shock a lot of folks into voting if they were blah before.

Edited July 26, 2019 by DixonHur

[EuroHorn 3204]

[David Dennison 18657]

Just now, EuroHorn said:

Yep.

Labor Day. Mark your calendar.

[henrygandorf 29177]

11 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Let them try.  Nothing is going to move the needle for Trumpkins anyway.  Those cultists would still vote for him if he went door to door calling them all stupid to their faces.. 

The truth is that probably 90+% of the country hasn't read the Mueller report so bringing it out into the light of day will shock a lot of folks into voting if they were blah before.

at this point it’s not even about persuading them, it’s about shaming them. 

this is of course only applicable to those who possess the ability to feel shame. we already know trump cannot. 

[retread 2951]

An impeachment inquiry will hopefully be much more effective in consolidating all of the evidence and the crimes into one coherent message. Having investigations going on in separate committees makes it more difficult for voters to follow.

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

45 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

One thing is certain, non-removal by the Senate will be portrayed by the White House, the Trump campaign, the GOP, and the media as a political victory for Donald Trump. That will happen.

That's why they need to be very clear with the American people that they know removal is impossible because of McConnell and the complicit senate Republicans, but Trump's criminal activities are forcing their hand to do their Constitutional duty. It will be up to the electorate to remove the criminal president from office in November 2020. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by WhatTheBuck

[David Dennison 18657]

Another thing to remember about the budget bill is that it cleared the deck for most legislative business for the next year and a half.

That's a whole lot of time to fill with other things.

Like impeachment.

[deech 2251]

3 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

You are asking the right questions. How does impeachment in the house influence the 2020 election? How does impeachment timing affect it? What about impeachment that includes financial crimes? Where, in the calculus of all of those variables, can me maximize the potential to win the game and remove potus?

Fuck Politics.  A foreign government actively interfered in our elections.  I want every future candidate tot know that even if they win they will get an impeachment inquiry if they or their minions do the same in the future and then lie about it repeatedly and obstruct the investigation.

[David Dennison 18657]

2 minutes ago, deech said:

Fuck Politics.  A foreign government actively interfered in our elections.  I want every future candidate tot know that even if they win they will get an impeachment inquiry if they or their minions do the same in the future and then lie about it repeatedly and obstruct the investigation.

Moscow Mitch is making a puzzling political calculation by standing in the way of election legislation. That seems like an easy lay up.

Unless, of course, you know your party has benefited greatly from foreign interference.

[henrygandorf 29177]

9 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

That's why they need to be very clear with the American people that they know removal is impossible because of McConnell and the complicit senate Republicans, but Trump's criminal activities are forcing their hand to do their Constitutional duty. It will be up to the electorate to remove the criminal president from office in November 2020. 

shit, they should just drag it out and never even have it come to a vote.  why the hell not?

there was something posted a couple months ago about some process where they make some official recommendation but it never gets to the senate.  maybe somebody else can dig that up, but it sounded like a good approach when you know you don't have the votes.

[henrygandorf 29177]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Moscow Mitch is making a puzzling political calculation by standing in the way of election legislation. That seems like an easy lay up.

Unless, of course, you know your party has benefited greatly from foreign interference.

yeah, the dnc should be running a series of tv spots focusing on "corruption" and this should just be another thing they throw on the top of the pile.

[deech 2251]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Moscow Mitch is making a puzzling political calculation by standing in the way of election legislation. That seems like an easy lay up.

Unless, of course, you know your party has benefited greatly from foreign interference.

I don't care.  Burn down both parties.  Or we have no system of government worth protecting anymore or defending.  At a minimum, have every person in the House and Senate put an up or down vote as to whether they are OK with what Trump did as outlined in Part 2 of the Mueller report.  I think an impeachment inquiry would also put pressure on Moscow Mitch to allow people to vote on legislation that will protect elections in the future.

[David Dennison 18657]

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

shit, they should just drag it out and never even have it come to a vote.  why the hell not?

there was something posted a couple months ago about some process where they make some official recommendation but it never gets to the senate.  maybe somebody else can dig that up, but it sounded like a good approach when you know you don't have the votes.

That might be the plan. There's not much else for them to do for the next 15 months.

[henrygandorf 29177]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

That might be the plan. There's not much else for them to do for the next 15 months.

also, it would make for a great talking point:

gop - why are they dragging this out, are they afraid of the senate vote?

dems - no, we just didn't realize how much fucking corruption there was, and it's taking us forever to navigate through it all.

the fucking oj trial took a year for god's sake.

[retread 2951]

I would love to see that happen.

Could the Ds hold up under the PR pressure from the Rs who would raise hell?

[David Dennison 18657]

6 minutes ago, retread said:

I would love to see that happen.

Could the Ds hold up under the PR pressure from the Rs who would raise hell?

Jerry Nadler is facing a primary. I think he's all in, and that matters a lot.

[0xdeadbeef 1626]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

What? The report that laid out factually that the President committed obstruction of justice? The immigration issue that resulted in the Democrats taking over the House? And seriously, calling the House hyperpartisan as if it wasn't the Republicans that created and fanned the flames hyperpartisanship over the last 10 years?

obstruction of justice...That's what you're hanging you hat on.   Good luck running that.    So Trump didn't play nice with Mueller's deck of partisan lawyers.  Boo Woo.   You know that comes across as?   "We got nothing".   As I said before, That's a F-ing losing hand.

Pssst - if you think the immigration issue was why the Democrats took over the House?  You're in for a painful surprise. Dude, It was a F-ing mid-term election. 

In the years since the election, are you cool with what's happening on our Southern border?   Are you of  the opinion that Nothing is really happening at all there and it's a made up crisis?  I know many in the Main Stream (FakeNews) Media are trying to push that narrative....  Good luck running on that as well.     When push comes to shove during the 2020 election, you either need to express a believable desire to stop the unchecked immagration or you are going to be labeled as for "Open Borders" .  Nobody is getting elected to as President who is for Open Borders. Unless the Democrats reverse course on a number of fronts, Trump WILL be re-elected in 2020.

 
 

  

[David Dennison 18657]

1 minute ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

obstruction of justice...That's what you're hanging you hat on.   Good luck running that.    So Trump didn't play nice with Mueller's deck of partisan lawyers.  Boo Woo.   You know that comes across as?   "We got nothing".   As I said before, That's a F-ing losing hand.

Pssst - if you think the immigration issue was why the Democrats took over the House?  You're in for a painful surprise. Dude, It was a F-ing mid-term election. 

In the years since the election, are you cool with what's happening on our Southern border?   Are you of  the opinion that Nothing is really happening at all there and it's a made up crisis?  I know many in the Main Stream (FakeNews) Media are trying to push that narrative....  Good luck running on that as well.     When push comes to shove during the 2020 election, you either need to express a believable desire to stop the unchecked immagration or you are going to be labeled as for "Open Borders" .  Nobody is getting elected to as President who is for Open Borders. Unless the Democrats reverse course on a number of fronts, Trump WILL be re-elected in 2020.  

Donald Trump is a felon. He's probably going to be indicted when he's no longer president.

[suddenly shaggy 929]

Trump has committed many impeachable offenses, some aren't crimes, but are impeachable none-the-less. An impeachment inquiry should not solely focus on the Mueller report, including his obstruction, or his perjury. Trump is an unindicted co-conspirator who committed felony campaign finance violations. He has committed insurance and tax fraud. He's been bribed repeatedly by foreign governments paying inflated rates for his hotels. Trump was trying to build Trump Tower Moscow with 2 different sets of Russians, while attacking US foreign policy and NATO countries. He repeatedly lied about all of it. 

Those are just scratching the surface. Dems should hit him with a new topic every few weeks until the election and not let the Senate vote on whether to remove him until after the election. Make it a referendum on the GOP supporting a shitheel felon at any cost.  

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

also, it would make for a great talking point:

gop - why are they dragging this out, are they afraid of the senate vote?

dems - no, we just didn't realize how much fucking corruption there was, and it's taking us forever to navigate through it all.

the fucking oj trial took a year for god's sake.

I think you’re seriously overestimating the attention span of the general public, and maybe even inviting backlash from folks tired of the same incessant talking point which will likely come across as annoying white noise. 

I personally think that’s a losing hand moving into the next presidential election. Maybe best to take that course of action, semi low profile it and let it be a talking point/zinger for the democratic nominee.

That 30-40% of the country that suffers from a malaise of conviction with regard to political belief will likely never be interested enough in any of this to dig into it let alone willingly tolerate listening to it for the next year and a half. It sucks that that is where the deciding portion of the electorate is at, but I feel the D’s have largely shot their wad on the issue, and that Trump can claim the PR victory innocent or not. Who and how he can be beaten would be my strategy moving forward. 

The felon gum beating and mental masturbation is counter productive to the end goal. Which is to take back control of the WH. At the end of the day, and at the end of his presidency he’s going to walk away scott free. 

And no, that doesn’t mean I think he’s remotely innocent on all the accusations. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Bobby_Batronic

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Lulz.   The last impeachment was literally for obstruction of justice.  

[retread 2951]

The one before that too (among other high crimes). Nixon wasn't impeached, but articles included it. ^

Edited July 26, 2019 by retread

[jimmyjazz 45558]

19 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Lulz.   The last impeachment was literally for obstruction of justice.  

It's amazing how little Trumpkins know about history.  Trump has equaled and exceeded every action that Clinton was impeached for -- not just perjury, but obstructing justice by coercing Monica Lewinsky to lie on his behalf.  Sound familiar?

[0xdeadbeef 1626]

43 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Donald Trump is a felon. He's probably going to be indicted when he's no longer president.

Do you really believe that?  Really?   No, it's not going to go down like that.  Why?  Because the Democrats aren't that stupid.   What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If they go after Trump when they get the Executive Branch, they themselves will go to jail when the administration changes.   When Trump leaves Office in 2024 the Dems will move one. Anything less invites open warfare against every elected official.  Do you really thing Nancy Pelosi wants deep scrutiny into her and her husbands real estate dealings? What are the odds that the Justice department could find some prosecute-able offense against former speaker Harry Reid? 100%? 99%  Yeah, I'm thinking career politicians don't really want that. 

 

[hobbes2702 12834]

3 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

Impeachment is purely political, "evidence" is not necessary.  Exhibit A the past two years Ds don't even pretend to care what the evidence showed. 

Well it seems that the evidence shows the president broke the law...

[notre dame joe 172]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's amazing how little Trumpkins know about history.  Trump has equaled and exceeded every action that Clinton was impeached for -- not just perjury, but obstructing justice by coercing Monica Lewinsky to lie on his behalf.  Sound familiar?

Trump testified under oath and denied an affair that everyone knew happened?

[jimmyjazz 45558]

1 minute ago, notre dame joe said:

Trump testified under oath and denied an affair that everyone knew happened?

Oh for fuck's sake.  Let's start at the top -- one need not be under oath to commit a crime of lying to an official.

Edited July 27, 2019 by jimmyjazz

[notre dame joe 172]

12 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Oh for fuck's sake.  Let's start at the top -- one need not be under oath to commit a crime of lying to an official.

Yeah but that's quite a stretch to hop from perjury to lying to 'an official' and  call it high crime or misdemeanor.  You cannot name one President who never lied to someone in Washington.  

 

BTW what statement are you talking about?

[jimmyjazz 45558]

Come on.  Mueller himself accused Trump of actual perjury 2 days ago.  Do your own homework.

[bolverk 29399]

1 hour ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

obstruction of justice...That's what you're hanging you hat on.   Good luck running that.    So Trump didn't play nice with Mueller's deck of partisan lawyers.  Boo Woo.   You know that comes across as?   "We got nothing".   As I said before, That's a F-ing losing hand.

Pssst - if you think the immigration issue was why the Democrats took over the House?  You're in for a painful surprise. Dude, It was a F-ing mid-term election. 

In the years since the election, are you cool with what's happening on our Southern border?   Are you of  the opinion that Nothing is really happening at all there and it's a made up crisis?  I know many in the Main Stream (FakeNews) Media are trying to push that narrative....  Good luck running on that as well.     When push comes to shove during the 2020 election, you either need to express a believable desire to stop the unchecked immagration or you are going to be labeled as for "Open Borders" .  Nobody is getting elected to as President who is for Open Borders. Unless the Democrats reverse course on a number of fronts, Trump WILL be re-elected in 2020.

I see you drink from the Donald J. Trump piss fountain.

18 minutes ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

Do you really believe that?  Really?   No, it's not going to go down like that.  Why?  Because the Democrats aren't that stupid.   What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If they go after Trump when they get the Executive Branch, they themselves will go to jail when the administration changes.   When Trump leaves Office in 2024 the Dems will move one. Anything less invites open warfare against every elected official.  Do you really thing Nancy Pelosi wants deep scrutiny into her and her husbands real estate dealings? What are the odds that the Justice department could find some prosecute-able offense against former speaker Harry Reid? 100%? 99%  Yeah, I'm thinking career politicians don't really want that. 

 

Trump is already a gotdammed unindicted co-conspirator to felony campaign violations. Beyond all the other corruption and Russia shit, that fact, ALONE, would be sufficient to impeach ANY president and, yet, somehow that charge is applicable to only ONE other president in our nation's history and he resigned rather than suffer that ignomy.

[Anastasis 23395]

[bolverk 29399]