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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105248

Posted
Posted
Hey [mention=593]Brisketexan[/mention] can you help jimmy2 with the distinction between the predicate for the investigation and the probable cause for the FISA warrant before he stroke out?

Why? You seem perfectly capable of remaining focused on your pointless mental masturbation, so I won’t “give you a hand with that.”

The distinction doesn’t matter. Completely warrantless investigations of political opponents for political purposes are totally legal, totally cool, so discussing the nuances of unnecessary warrants is just silly.
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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9939

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Queensberry rules

Meaningless rules - for you who is privileged enough to not need those rules. 

Again - the ACLU:

"When the Justice Department’s Inspector General finds significant concerns regarding flawed surveillance applications concerning the president's campaign advisors, it is clear that this regime lacks basic safeguards and is in need of serious reform. While the report found that there wasn't an improper purpose or initiation of the investigation, it also found significant problems that are alarming from a civil liberties perspective. For instance, the litany of problems with the Carter Page surveillance applications demonstrates how the secrecy shrouding the government’s one-sided FISA approval process breeds abuse. The concerns the Inspector General identifies apply to intrusive investigations of others, including especially Muslims, and far better safeguards against abuse are necessary.

"The system requires fundamental reforms, and Congress can start by providing defendants subjected to FISA surveillance the opportunity to review the government’s secret submissions. The FBI must also adopt higher standards for investigations involving constitutionally protected sensitive activities, such as political campaigns."

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-comment-doj-inspector-general-report-examining-fbi-investigation-trump-campaign

Real lives hang in the balance, but please - back to your meaningless food fight.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105248

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Posted
Meaningless rules - for you who is privileged enough to not need those rules. 

Again - the ACLU:

"When the Justice Department’s Inspector General finds significant concerns regarding flawed surveillance applications concerning the president's campaign advisors, it is clear that this regime lacks basic safeguards and is in need of serious reform. While the report found that there wasn't an improper purpose or initiation of the investigation, it also found significant problems that are alarming from a civil liberties perspective. For instance, the litany of problems with the Carter Page surveillance applications demonstrates how the secrecy shrouding the government’s one-sided FISA approval process breeds abuse. The concerns the Inspector General identifies apply to intrusive investigations of others, including especially Muslims, and far better safeguards against abuse are necessary.

"The system requires fundamental reforms, and Congress can start by providing defendants subjected to FISA surveillance the opportunity to review the government’s secret submissions. The FBI must also adopt higher standards for investigations involving constitutionally protected sensitive activities, such as political campaigns."

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-comment-doj-inspector-general-report-examining-fbi-investigation-trump-campaign

Real lives hang in the balance, but please - back to your meaningless food fight.

Rules. Are. Over.

 

If the Barr DOJ wants to spy on you or me, and they think they can’t get a warrant, do you really think that will stop them? Even slow them down?

 

Do you think the GOP senate will pass ANY reform that might stand in the administration’s way?

 

We’re ALL fucked. That’s the fucking point.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23481

Posted
Posted
Just now, Brisketexan said:


Why? You seem perfectly capable of remaining focused on your pointless mental masturbation, so I won’t “give you a hand with that.”

The distinction doesn’t matter. Completely warrantless investigations of political opponents for political purposes are totally legal, totally cool, so discussing the nuances of unnecessary warrants is just silly.

Distinction between investigation opening predicate and FISA warrant probable cause doesn’t matter. Ok. Maybe another lawyer could help out here. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18944

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Meaningless rules - for you who is privileged enough to not need those rules. 

Again - the ACLU:

"When the Justice Department’s Inspector General finds significant concerns regarding flawed surveillance applications concerning the president's campaign advisors, it is clear that this regime lacks basic safeguards and is in need of serious reform. While the report found that there wasn't an improper purpose or initiation of the investigation, it also found significant problems that are alarming from a civil liberties perspective. For instance, the litany of problems with the Carter Page surveillance applications demonstrates how the secrecy shrouding the government’s one-sided FISA approval process breeds abuse. The concerns the Inspector General identifies apply to intrusive investigations of others, including especially Muslims, and far better safeguards against abuse are necessary.

"The system requires fundamental reforms, and Congress can start by providing defendants subjected to FISA surveillance the opportunity to review the government’s secret submissions. The FBI must also adopt higher standards for investigations involving constitutionally protected sensitive activities, such as political campaigns."

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-comment-doj-inspector-general-report-examining-fbi-investigation-trump-campaign

Real lives hang in the balance, but please - back to your meaningless food fight.

Bingo. Lobby your reps.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23481

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Posted

Hugo don’t give a shit about the report  DD didn’t read the full report. Jimmy doesn’t have access to the internet at work. Jimmy2 is a lawyer who doesn’t understand the distinction between two basic concepts and clearly also did not read the report. Brisket talking about planes flying into mountains and can’t lend a hand to correct his professional brethren who finished lower in the class ranking.  
 

timeisaflatcircle.gif

 

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18944

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Hugo don’t give a shit about the report  DD didn’t read the full report. Jimmy doesn’t have access to the internet at work. Jimmy2 is a lawyer who doesn’t understand the distinction between two basic concepts and clearly also did not read the report. Brisket talking about planes flying into mountains and can’t lend a hand to correct his professional brethren who finished lower in the class ranking.  
 

timeisaflatcircle.gif

I guess you can't cite any part of the report that says a FISA court has to issue a warrant based on the application.

Cool.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105248

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Posted
Hugo don’t give a shit about the report  DD didn’t read the full report. Jimmy doesn’t have access to the internet at work. Jimmy2 is a lawyer who doesn’t understand the distinction between two basic concepts and clearly also did not read the report. Brisket talking about planes flying into mountains and can’t lend a hand to correct his professional brethren who finished lower in the class ranking.  
 
timeisaflatcircle.gif
 
 

How about this: what’s a more serious problem, a legal process that isn’t sufficiently rigorous to protect people, or the complete absence of a process to protect people?

And which one gets all of your attention?

Again, you look foolish here. Like Trump and Barr give a fuck about “FISA Courts.” They are subject to no law, no process, and no consequences. And that attitude is rapidly permeating their entire party. All the way down to GOP judges on the local level. The rule of law doesn’t matter.
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23481

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


You know the difference, you explain it. I’m not gonna pointlessly stroke your limp dick for you.

He will not accept any explanation from me. He has brain worms. I thought maybe he would accept one from one of his professional compatriots. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23481

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Look just admit it. We’re all wrong, Anastasis is right, and he hasn’t even posted a gif yet to prove it. 

Appeal to comradery when none of your comrades will gently help you stop showing your ass. 
 

letsseehowitworksoutforhim.gif

Edited by Anastasis
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23481

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Posted
Just now, wildcat09 said:

I’m impressed by Anastasis’ ability to continually revive this chicken just so he can fuck it to death yet again.

You care to weigh in on any evolution in your thinking regarding the veracity of the dossier or the sufficiency of the probable cause in the FISA application?

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

You care to weigh in on any evolution in your thinking regarding the veracity of the dossier or the sufficiency of the probable cause in the FISA application?

Sure I will. The dossier was mostly correct and they clearly had probable cause for the warrant to be issued. Which anyone who knew anything about this subject would easily recognize. 

Oh and by the way, it’s not really important, but the president of the United States is in fact a criminal mobster and a foreign asset compromised by the Russian federation.

But that’s not really important, let’s all focus on The FISA Warrent Of One Carter Page. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23481

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Explain this.  Try English.  You suck at it, but give it a try.

JimmyJames doesn’t understand the different standards involved regarding a predicate to open an investigation versus the probable cause standard required for FISA surveillance. 
 

I typoed the jimmy1/2 thing. So I understand if this is the root of your confusion. I tried to lay cover for the typo by suggesting that jimmyjames has overtaken you in my jimmy dip shit rating seeds.  

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23481

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Posted
9 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Sure I will. The dossier was mostly correct and they clearly had probable cause for the warrant to be issued. Which anyone who knew anything about this subject would easily recognize. 

Anybody not named Anastasis want to help our friend JimmyJames out here?

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23481

Posted
Posted
Just now, David Dennison said:

Why don't you tell us why those different standards matter when it comes to evidence.

Oh god. You are a lawyer too, right?

Seriously.  Please. Can one of the many lawyers on this board explain the distinction for their brothers who seem to really be struggling?  
 

I would be embarrassed for my own profession to see this string out. 

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bernorange

bernorange 8363

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Rules. Are. Over.

 

spacer.png

This shit still vexes me:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/01/19/james-clappers-perjury-dc-made-men-dont-get-charged-lying-congress-jonathan-turley-column/1045991001/

Brisket, surely you know that Presidents have been getting away with shit since forever.  Sure, once in a while a scandal surfaces and some measure of accountability is had, but only a fool would think Iran-Contra, Watergate, Filegate, etc. were the only malfeasance going on during their respective administrations.  I'm not saying malfeasance in the past excuses malfeasance in the present.  I'm saying that your hysteria is farcical given a historical perspective.  My default assumption is that they are all abusing power.  It's one reason I've been such a loud voice decrying the tools and apparatus of the surveillance state for years.  If they can, they will.  Best to ensure they can't than hope they won't.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105248

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Posted
am-i-the-only-one-around-here.gif
This shit still vexes me:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/01/19/james-clappers-perjury-dc-made-men-dont-get-charged-lying-congress-jonathan-turley-column/1045991001/
Brisket, surely you know that Presidents have been getting away with shit since forever.  Sure, once in a while a scandal surfaces and some measure of accountability is had, but only a fool would think Iran-Contra, Watergate, Filegate, etc. were the only malfeasance going on during their respective administrations.  I'm not saying malfeasance in the past excuses malfeasance in the present.  I'm saying that your hysteria is farcical given a historical perspective.  My default assumption is that they are all abusing power.  It's one reason I've been such a loud voice decrying the tools and apparatus of the surveillance state for years.  If they can, they will.  Best to ensure they can't than hope they won't.

When there are rules, they at least act like people who know that breaking them is bad, which acts as SOME sort of governor on their behavior. That level of constraint is important. As an example we can all understand, it’s why I drive only 75 in a 65.

The complete fealty of an entire party, and the only body that provide any consequences (the senate) makes today really fucking different.

When there are no rules, there are no constraints. That’s how you get people driving 120, and people die.

Y’all are arguing about the best way to enforce speed limits on a road that no longer has any.
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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46075

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

JimmyJames doesn’t understand the different standards involved regarding a predicate to open an investigation versus the probable cause standard required for FISA surveillance. 
 

I typoed the jimmy1/2 thing. So I understand if this is the root of your confusion. I tried to lay cover for the typo by suggesting that jimmyjames has overtaken you in my jimmy dip shit rating seeds.  

Jesus, try to be less clever and just write like a normal (brained) human being.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46075

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Posted
8 minutes ago, bernorange said:

Brisket, surely you know that Presidents have been getting away with shit since forever.  Sure, once in a while a scandal surfaces and some measure of accountability is had, but only a fool would think Iran-Contra, Watergate, Filegate, etc. were the only malfeasance going on during their respective administrations.  I'm not saying malfeasance in the past excuses malfeasance in the present.  I'm saying that your hysteria is farcical given a historical perspective.  My default assumption is that they are all abusing power.  It's one reason I've been such a loud voice decrying the tools and apparatus of the surveillance state for years.  If they can, they will.  Best to ensure they can't than hope they won't.

Richard Nixon resigned because he knew there were more than enough Republican senators willing to convict.

Do you honestly think we're at the same place now?

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bernorange

bernorange 8363

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Posted
Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Richard Nixon resigned because he knew there were more than enough Republican senators willing to convict.

Do you honestly think we're at the same place now?

No.  I didn't say that.  I said that malfeasance has always been happening.  Rules didn't stop Nixon from engaging in malfeasance just like laws don't stop criminals.

I think Reagan marked the end of an era.  The rise of partisanship really took off during the Clinton years and seems to really have spiralled into clown show theater these days. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46075

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Posted
3 minutes ago, bernorange said:

I think Reagan marked the end of an era.  The rise of partisanship really took off during the Clinton years

L. M. F. A. O.

Yeah, it happened under Clinton.  Jesus Christ, I need to find a new hobby.  You people are an enormous beating.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Posted
33 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

JimmyJames doesn’t understand the different standards involved regarding a predicate to open an investigation versus the probable cause standard required for FISA surveillance. 
 

I typoed the jimmy1/2 thing. So I understand if this is the root of your confusion. I tried to lay cover for the typo by suggesting that jimmyjames has overtaken you in my jimmy dip shit rating seeds.  

Well then, why don’t you explain those different standards to us?

Or just post another Gif.

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bernorange

bernorange 8363

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Posted
Just now, wildcat09 said:

Damnit Bern, you were the one libertarian I liked.

I'm still the same.  I just react to Brisket at times because he's one of the few peeps around here who generally engages in conversations honestly and I find his current hysteria a bit puzzling given the years of (less emotionally driven) conversations we have had.  I don't like seeing him out on that ledge.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105248

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Posted
Did you sleep through Bill Clinton's administrations?

Nope. And his reckless and narcissistic disregard for the rule of law royally pissed me off. He had party support. Which pissed me off.

But he never said “fuck it, let’s double down. No rules.” Not like this. You and I both know this is a whole nother level. There are no limits, and there is no firewall.
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David Dennison

David Dennison 18944

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Posted
41 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Oh god. You are a lawyer too, right?

Seriously.  Please. Can one of the many lawyers on this board explain the distinction for their brothers who seem to really be struggling?  
 

I would be embarrassed for my own profession to see this string out. 

One can lead to a suppression of evidence in a criminal trial. The other one probably cannot.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105248

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Posted
I'm still the same.  I just react to Brisket at times because he's one of the few peeps around here who generally engages in conversations honestly and I find his current hysteria a bit puzzling given the years of (less emotionally driven) conversations we have had.  I don't like seeing him out on that ledge.

You shouldn’t like it.

Shit’s bad. Real bad. And there’s no viable path out of it.
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