The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Ted Lange 15991]

Its hysterical to,see the anti black lives matter do a 180....because Trump. Fuckimg phonies. 

[notre dame joe 172]

Victims of the Obama-Biden 'Justice' Dept must not only be heard; they must be believed. 

[wildcat09 29187]

On 5/2/2020 at 12:06 AM, TwiceHorn said:

One can find the FBI's tactics offensive without approving of the defendant against which they are deployed.

I find much of what the FBI does on a daily basis offensive. There’s nothing wrong with how they treated Flynn.

[Lagunamadre 1975]

On 5/1/2020 at 10:12 PM, notre dame joe said:

4 quotes in one afternoon, the cult is riled.

 

I said they would never get a conviction, especially if that evidence had been given to the defense.  All Flynn needed to do was explain as an intelligence official he speaks to people on a need to know basis and these agents from a different department did not need to know.  They pressured Flynn into pleading by threatening to go after his son and bleeding him dry paying his lawyers.  Federal defense Lawyers aren't cheap.   

 

They did not say why they thought they could never get a conviction on McCabe.  I think it is because the jury pool would be Washington DC where 90% think he's a bloody hero.

That would be a good defense. Guessing the prosecutors would probably point out that Flynn was a private citizen (not an "intelligence official") on December 29, 2016 when he spoke to the Russian ambassadors about sanctions. What would be your next defense after the courtroom got finished laughing at your first one? 

[notre dame joe 172]

14 hours ago, Lagunamadre said:

That would be a good defense. Guessing the prosecutors would probably point out that Flynn was a private citizen (not an "intelligence official") on December 29, 2016 when he spoke to the Russian ambassadors about sanctions. What would be your next defense after the courtroom got finished laughing at your first one? 

hmm why would Trump's declared national security advisor be talking to other advisors?  You probably think it's proof of guilt.

[Captainant 27311]

5 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

hmm why would Trump's declared national security advisor be talking to other advisors?  You probably think it's proof of guilt.

Well, it's more that he lied about talking to those other advisors, which is what he was prosecuted and judged guilty of. 

[Lagunamadre 1975]

7 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

hmm why would Trump's declared national security advisor be talking to other advisors?  You probably think it's proof of guilt.

No, talking to Kyslyak was not proof of guilt. Lying to the FBI about what they talked about. Then admitting that he lied while under oath to a judge is what is proof of guilt. If he didn't lie to the FBI, then he lied to a Judge about his guilty plea. 

Also, lies aside, keep in mind Flynn was telling the Russian ambassador, who had just been a part  of  an orchestrated attack on our democracy,  that they would ease the sanctions once they took over in January. A year before Flynn telling the Russians not to worry about what they did, he was being paid by RT (AKA Putin) to give a speech in Moscow and literally sat next to Putin at a dinner, none of which he disclosed to the US Gov. Go ahead and defend this law breaking Russian traitor while disparaging American law enforcement. It's a good look comrade. 

[hayden_horn 11360]

i had to chuckle at the redeployment of "perjury trap." you know happens when you tell the truth? you don't get caught perjuring yourself. don't lie to the feds. it's fairly cut and dried.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[notre dame joe 172]

14 hours ago, Lagunamadre said:

No, talking to Kyslyak was not proof of guilt. Lying to the FBI about what they talked about. Then admitting that he lied while under oath to a judge is what is proof of guilt. If he didn't lie to the FBI, then he lied to a Judge about his guilty plea. 

Also, lies aside, keep in mind Flynn was telling the Russian ambassador, who had just been a part  of  an orchestrated attack on our democracy,  that they would ease the sanctions once they took over in January. A year before Flynn telling the Russians not to worry about what they did, he was being paid by RT (AKA Putin) to give a speech in Moscow and literally sat next to Putin at a dinner, none of which he disclosed to the US Gov. Go ahead and defend this law breaking Russian traitor while disparaging American law enforcement. It's a good look comrade. 

Jill Stein was at the dinner too.  If I thought like you and Lisa Page then I'd say we have suspicious behavior, finally.

Edited May 6, 2020 by notre dame joe
dinner = 150 person banquet

[Paul Wesley 3277]

Yes, that’s what was so treasonous of Flynn - the borscht.  
 

Both sides!

[Lagunamadre 1975]

10 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

Jill Stein was at the dinner too.  If I thought like you and Lisa Page then I'd say we have suspicious behavior, finally.

Funny, the Republican Senator's just came out with a report noting that the Russian troll farms promoted Jill Stein as well. I'm sure you've read it. 

But, being a useful idiot like Stein is not illegal. Lying to the FBI about what you and the Kremlin are talking about is, hence why Flynn has been charged and will be found guilty if this goes to trial. 

No matter how loud you and your MAGA buddies yell BUT PETER STROZK. 

[notre dame joe 172]

7 hours ago, Lagunamadre said:

Funny, the Republican Senator's just came out with a report noting that the Russian troll farms promoted Jill Stein as well. I'm sure you've read it. 

But, being a useful idiot like Stein is not illegal. Lying to the FBI about what you and the Kremlin are talking about is, hence why Flynn has been charged and will be found guilty if this goes to trial. 

No matter how loud you and your MAGA buddies yell BUT PETER STROZK. 

Except it's never going to sniff a trial and Flynn won't serve one minute.  "We tricked him into withholding information material to a fictitious crime we trumped up ourselves" is not a loss that any prosecutor wants on his resume. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13537]

12 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

Except it's never going to sniff a trial and Flynn won't serve one minute.

Why would being a "useful idiot" deserve a trial as opposed to lying to law enforcement?

[Lagunamadre 1975]

16 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

Except it's never going to sniff a trial and Flynn won't serve one minute.  "We tricked him into withholding information material to a fictitious crime we trumped up ourselves" is not a loss that any prosecutor wants on his resume.  Because Trump is going to pardon him. 

fify 

[The Royal We 3059]

The gaslighting on Flynn is really quite amazing.  Wasn't he fired by Trump?  What for?

He's a POS on a number of different things.  On the take from Turkey/lying about it and cozy with Russia while also lying about that.  This isn't that hard unless you are a Qtard.  The judge who has been able to read a lot more about the details of Flynn's actions was certainly troubled by what he saw, but I'm sure he's a deep state bad guy. 

Do you put on a helmet before you leave the house Joe?

[Anastasis 23375]

22 minutes ago, The Royal We said:

The gaslighting on Flynn is really quite amazing.  Wasn't he fired by Trump?  What for?

He's a POS on a number of different things.  On the take from Turkey/lying about it and cozy with Russia while also lying about that.  This isn't that hard unless you are a Qtard.  The judge who has been able to read a lot more about the details of Flynn's actions was certainly troubled by what he saw, but I'm sure he's a deep state bad guy. 

Do you put on a helmet before you leave the house Joe?

He and his son were profiteering off American foreign policy dip shittery. That doesn't really excuse the way the FBI treated him, but he can go fuck him generally.  

[The Royal We 3059]

Did the FBI treat Flynn badly in particular or were their behaviors toward Flynn more SOP for them?  From what I've read, yes, they may have treated him harshly, but it was not anything different than what the FBI does in 95% of the same situations.

He's a POS who sold out his country, he can EABOD and DIAF for all I care. 

[Anastasis 23375]

7 minutes ago, The Royal We said:

Did the FBI treat Flynn badly in particular or were their behaviors toward Flynn more SOP for them?  From what I've read, yes, they may have treated him harshly, but it was not anything different than what the FBI does in 95% of the same situations.

He's a POS who sold out his country, he can EABOD and DIAF for all I care. 

As far as I have tracked, they were closing his file, and then decided to pivot to a logan act violation which hasn't been prosecuted in like 100+ years or something. The way the interview was set up and conducted was shady, Comey seems to have acknowledged that.  They likely never would have got a conviction on a LA violation, so they had to spin down to the lying charge. That one was probably tenuous as well, but they leveraged him in to pleading guilty by bleeding him on legal bills and agreeing to lay off his son (also POS who can fuck right off) for a FARA violation.  This gave them a big scalp to hang on the wall, with the happy side effect of spinning up the conspiracy fever among certain folks. 

Is that sort of thing SOP for the FBI? Probably. Final analysis, if you take the deal, you take the deal.  Don't come whining about it on the back end. 

[Captainant 27311]

15 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Final analysis, if you take the deal, you take the deal.  Don't come whining about it on the back end. 

Don't let that stop you from making Flynn out to be a martyr though. 

[Paul Wesley 3277]

Here's a reading of the courtroom transcript from Flynn's sentencing hearing.  It's beyond shocking, and it's worth the watch.  

Importantly, this federal judge had far more information about Flynn's actions than any of us commenting on this thread, and the judge was using words like "treason" and "disgust."

The issue of a "perjury trap" (I don't think those words appear directly in the transcript) are directly addressed by the judge starting at 14:45.  Paraphrased, "Did you actually need the FBI to explain to you that lying to the FBI is a crime?"  

Even in December of 2018, Flynn has rightwing media (and the White House PRESS SECRETARY!!!!!!!) claiming some deep-state mistreatment of this traitor.  But when facing the judge who is sentencing him, he has to completely disavow any hint that he was treated unfairly... because it's complete fucking bullshit, and everyone in the courtroom knows it's bullshit.

If it wasn't complete bullshit, then Flynn would have taken the entire case to trial (and subsequently died in prison) instead of doing what he did.

And I fully expect an attack on Maddow.  Yes, she editorializes with her own outrage.  but most of this video is a verbatim READING OF THE COURT TRANSCRIPT.  If any of you want to post a video of a conservative pundit reading the transcript from a Flynn sentencing hearing, then by all means, do so.  I won't hold my breath.  

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Paul Wesley

[Anastasis 23375]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Don't let that stop you from making Flynn out to be a martyr though. 

I don't think that I have ever done that, but don't let that stop you from creating your own reality. 

I think the closest that I have come to doing anything of the sort is suggesting that the FBI should be consistent with the approach they use prosecuting lying to the FBI, especially when it involves actual FBI officials doing the lying. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[Anastasis 23375]

https://intelligence.house.gov/russiainvestigation/

Acting DNI appears to have forced Schiff's hand. 

[babysdaddy 2711]

Anything in there worth reading?

[Anastasis 23375]

4 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Anything in there worth reading?

I ain’t reading all that shit. I’ll wait for the tweets. 

[notre dame joe 172]

On 5/4/2020 at 9:22 AM, Lagunamadre said:

That would be a good defense. Guessing the prosecutors would probably point out that Flynn was a private citizen (not an "intelligence official") on December 29, 2016 when he spoke to the Russian ambassadors about sanctions. What would be your next defense after the courtroom got finished laughing at your first one? 

[DDD Dad 14167]

Anything in there worth reading?

Y’all open yet or is the grass still all dead?

[Longhorn_Fan68 33825]

 

[notre dame joe 172]

20 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

Was meme mod-killed or just a post fail?

[GW Hayduke 1950]

I often ask the Supreme Court to block the release of documents when I have nothing to hide.

[Jive Turkey 12562]

 

[washparkhorn 9931]

4 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

 

The Obamagate narrative going mainstream. It's not new. Trump has been talking about it since he won the election. There is going to be a lot of trolling for librul tears. Ignore it and focus on the economy - which is a shitshow waiting to explode. Worse than 2008. On pace for recession and then depression for main street (few will be immune) - and focus on the horrible COVID response - the real neglect of this Administration. 

[jimmyjazz 45513]

On 5/7/2020 at 10:23 PM, Anastasis said:

I ain’t reading all that shit. 

Yeah, right.

[Anastasis 23375]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Yeah, right.

Got to prioritize.  Started with Clapper.  Mr "I never saw any direct empirical evidence that the Trump campaign or someone in it was plotting conspiring with the Russians to meddle with the election."  Of course, didn't stop him from speculating as a paid talking head.  Nor did it stop many congressmen from stoking that shit after the hearings. Basically same play that Mr. "I don’t know whether the current President of the United States was with prostitutes peeing on each other in Moscow in 2013" Comey ran after the FBI's investigation had in fact undermined the Steele reporting prior to Comey's departure.   

[babysdaddy 2711]

1 hour ago, washparkhorn said:

The Obamagate narrative going mainstream. It's not new. Trump has been talking about it since he won the election. There is going to be a lot of trolling for librul tears. Ignore it and focus on the economy - which is a shitshow waiting to explode. Worse than 2008. On pace for recession and then depression for main street (few will be immune) - and focus on the horrible COVID response - the real neglect of this Administration. 

Yeah, it's not new and Trump has been talking about it. Now that the entire story is falling apart not because of Trump but because of sworn testimony by those involved and your comment is to 'ignore it and focus on the economy'? 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33825]

1 hour ago, Jive Turkey said:

 

gaslighting so bright the moontowers are jealous

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13537]

2 hours ago, Jive Turkey said:

 

It wasn't Mueller's job to find or not find weather Trump obstructed justice. That was Congress'. Mueller found Trump untruthful under oath in his incomplete responses to the take-home questions from Mueller he chose to answer. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13537]

1 hour ago, babysdaddy said:

Yeah, it's not new and Trump has been talking about it. Now that the entire story is falling apart not because of Trump but because of sworn testimony by those involved and your comment is to 'ignore it and focus on the economy'? 

What is your definition of the "entire story"?

[Anastasis 23375]

11 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

It wasn't Mueller's job to find or not find weather Trump obstructed justice.

Don't you find it kinda curious that, given Mueller's primary charge of detailing Russian attempts to influence American political actions and any possible intersection with domestic political interests, he was totally silent on the actions of the DNC and the FBI as they relate to multiple thread of russian disinformation intended to influence American politics?  Company man and all. 

[Anastasis 23375]

You know what, I don't really think that I fault Mueller.  He was clearly just a figure head.  A professor emeritus type figure.  The name out front.  But clearly didn't possess the facilities at this point in his career and didn't command a particularly intricate grasp of the details.  That was clear when he got dragged into his testimony, especially when contrasted against someone like Horowitz and his command of the subject matter. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Anastasis

[washparkhorn 9931]

1 hour ago, babysdaddy said:

Yeah, it's not new and Trump has been talking about it. Now that the entire story is falling apart not because of Trump but because of sworn testimony by those involved and your comment is to 'ignore it and focus on the economy'? 

The economy is in a free fall and the coronavirus is killing over a thousand Americans a day. 

2016 is over.

[washparkhorn 9931]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Don't you find it kinda curious that, given Mueller's primary charge of detailing Russian attempts to influence American political actions and any possible intersection with domestic political interests, he was totally silent on the actions of the DNC and the FBI as they relate to multiple thread of russian disinformation intended to influence American politics?  Company man and all. 

Not "material" to his investigation. What works for Flynn works for Mueller.

[TwiceHorn 31184]

On 5/7/2020 at 12:54 PM, Paul Wesley said:

Here's a reading of the courtroom transcript from Flynn's sentencing hearing.  It's beyond shocking, and it's worth the watch.  

Importantly, this federal judge had far more information about Flynn's actions than any of us commenting on this thread, and the judge was using words like "treason" and "disgust."

The issue of a "perjury trap" (I don't think those words appear directly in the transcript) are directly addressed by the judge starting at 14:45.  Paraphrased, "Did you actually need the FBI to explain to you that lying to the FBI is a crime?"  

Even in December of 2018, Flynn has rightwing media (and the White House PRESS SECRETARY!!!!!!!) claiming some deep-state mistreatment of this traitor.  But when facing the judge who is sentencing him, he has to completely disavow any hint that he was treated unfairly... because it's complete fucking bullshit, and everyone in the courtroom knows it's bullshit.

If it wasn't complete bullshit, then Flynn would have taken the entire case to trial (and subsequently died in prison) instead of doing what he did.

And I fully expect an attack on Maddow.  Yes, she editorializes with her own outrage.  but most of this video is a verbatim READING OF THE COURT TRANSCRIPT.  If any of you want to post a video of a conservative pundit reading the transcript from a Flynn sentencing hearing, then by all means, do so.  I won't hold my breath.  

 

The judge did not, in fact, have more information than anyone else.

The very essence of a plea bargain is that the judge relies on the "statement of facts" or the "factual resume," which is an affidavit signed by the defendant attesting to the facts that support conviction of the offense.  In some cases, that statement of facts is heavily negotiated, in others it is dictated by the prosecution, e.g. "you want to plead, sign this."

It's important to understand that the judge is not in control of a plea bargain.  The prosecution is.  The defense has one trump card and that is a jury trial and the burden of proof.  And oftentimes, it is too expensive or too chancy for the defendant to successfully employ it.  Moreover, judges do tend to penalize defendants who insist on a jury trial after declining a plea.

Edited May 12, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13537]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Don't you find it kinda curious that, given Mueller's primary charge of detailing Russian attempts to influence American political actions and any possible intersection with domestic political interests, he was totally silent on the actions of the DNC and the FBI as they relate to multiple thread of russian disinformation intended to influence American politics?  Company man and all. 

Not nearly as much as-

1) The current president- you know, the current most powerful man in world- lying under oath in an investigation into foreign authoritarian intervention in our elections.

2) The suggestion that the same law enforcement agency you reference ostensibly acting on behalf of the Democratic Party publicly announced weeks before the election it was re-opening an investigation into that party's presidential candidate based on what it characterized as newly discovered e-mails (that they possessed in September and were copies of e-mails they already had- insert Roseanna Anna Danna "never mind!" here) while keeping the public in the dark on the investigation into Trump, was actually, in some weird double-reverse, statue-of-liberty, fumblerooskie trying to throw the election to Hillary.

[TwiceHorn 31184]

3 hours ago, Jive Turkey said:

 

That fucker needs to retire.  Or just die.

[Anastasis 23375]

8 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

2) The suggestion that the same law enforcement agency you reference ostensibly acting on behalf of the Democratic Party publicly announced weeks before the election it was re-opening an investigation into that party's presidential candidate based on what it characterized as newly discovered e-mails (that they possessed in September and were copies of e-mails they already had- insert Roseanna Anna Danna "never mind!" here) while keeping the public in the dark on the investigation into Trump, was actually, in some weird double-reverse, statue-of-liberty, fumblerooskie trying to throw the election to Hillary.

Right.  And the fact that that decision was influenced by Russian disinformation, and the fact that that was not discussed at all by Mueller, nor even probed during his testimony is precisely my point.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13537]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Right.  And the fact that that decision was influenced by Russian disinformation, and the fact that that was not discussed at all by Mueller, nor even probed during his testimony is precisely my point.

Then I guessed I missed it.

Your point is Russian disinformation was pivotal in leading the FBI to sit on copies of e-mails they already possessed for three weeks and announce in late October they were re-starting CPR on the dead horse investigation of emails which was the still born offspring of the really dead horse Benghazi?

[Anastasis 23375]

3 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Then I guessed I missed it.

Your point is Russian disinformation was pivotal in leading the FBI to sit on copies of e-mails they already possessed for three weeks and announce in late October they were re-starting CPR on the dead horse investigation of emails which was the still born offspring of the really dead horse Benghazi?

Russian disinformation influenced Comey's handling of the Midyear Examination investigation. Setting off a chain of events that resulted in what is likely the single most influential action, outside of the decisions of the campaigns themselves, on the outcome of the 2016 election.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/how-a-dubious-russian-document-influenced-the-fbis-handling-of-the-clinton-probe/2017/05/24/f375c07c-3a95-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html

 

Current and former officials have said that Comey relied on the document in making his July decision to announce on his own, without Justice Department involvement, that the investigation was over. That public announcement — in which he criticized Clinton and made extensive comments about the evidence — set in motion a chain of other FBI moves that Democrats now say helped Trump win the presidential election.

But according to the FBI’s own assessment, the document was bad intelligence — and according to people familiar with its contents, possibly even a fake sent to confuse the bureau. The Americans mentioned in the Russian document insist they do not know each other, do not speak to each other and never had any conversations remotely like the ones described in the document. Investigators have long doubted its veracity, and by August the FBI had concluded it was unreliable.

 

[GW Hayduke 1950]

Imagine dismissing and minimizing the 10 instances potus obstructed DOJ’s investigation in Russian election interference, the sharing of internal survey data with Russian cutouts, the negotiating with Russians at trump tower to get dirt on Clinton, the working through stone and Wikileaks to get Russia to release damage on Clinton, the Russian troll farms, and the russian hacking of Dems, all because there was this thing called a Dossier, which everyone knew at the time was raw unfiltered intelligence. Imagine how furiously blinded by chicken lust one would need to be