The Robert Mueller Investigation

[HenryJames 65884]

2 minutes ago, Alvin89 said:

On April 17, 2012, PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA  nominated Flynn to be the 18th director of the Defense Intelligence Agency.^[33][34] Flynn took command of the DIA in July 2012.^[35] He simultaneously became commander of the Joint Functional Component Command for Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance, and chair of the Military Intelligence Board.

2012.

[Alvin89 108]

1 minute ago, HenryJames said:

2012.

I'm sure he was wildly different then.

[David Dennison 18646]

5 minutes ago, otisdog said:

My take is Flynn was doing the White Houses' bidding, but when he got busted for talking to Kislyak, he concocted the "lying" part to cover trump and pence's asses...

He was doing Obama's bidding during the time between the election and the inauguration?

[TwiceHorn 31240]

6 minutes ago, Alvin89 said:

I'm sure he was wildly different then.

For one thing, he was still on active duty in the Army.  He was supposedly permitted to retire a year early from the Army and his post at DIA in 2014.  Permitted to retire a year early pretty much means fired with some dignity.

Obama warned the Trump administration that he was a bad apple.

The problem seems to be that Flynn rose effectively to the top of the military, also got a taste of civilian politics, and decided that he would become a greedy grifter for hire.  Which of course suited him perfectly for a position in the Trump administration.

Edited May 14, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Biff Tannen 45491]

lulz

[Eskimohorn 5610]

They investigated him without telling him first, and without already having enough evidence to convict him of a crime. If you watch CSI:Miami like Trump and Anastasis do, then you would know that the FBI is not allowed to investigate anything prior to already having 100% of all the proof they need to convict.  And you'd also know that they have to tell people that they are under investigation before investigating them.
Its also why Anastasis asks hookers if they are a cop before he offers them money for sex. Cops have to say they are cops, you know.  

The only way to know if it’s cocaine is to dip your fingers in it and taste it.

[otisdog 365]

10 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

He was doing Obama's bidding during the time between the election and the inauguration?

Point taken....bad timeline on my part.  Point still stands, just change "White House" with trump tower...

[jimmyjazz 45538]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

lulz

But Obama!

[HenryJames 65884]

14 minutes ago, Alvin89 said:

I'm sure he was wildly different then.

He was .

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/09/us/politics/michael-flynn.html

 

[Foosters 17725]

18 minutes ago, Alvin89 said:

I'm sure he was wildly different then.

He was. There have been numerous articles written in the last couple of years about how something totally switched inside him. Quotes from long-time friends and colleagues. If you are going to try and contribute, at least have basic understanding of what it is you're talking about.

[jimmyjazz 45538]

1 hour ago, Foosters said:

If you are going to try and contribute, at least have basic understanding of what it is you're talking about.

This is surly.

[Biff Tannen 45491]

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

This is surly.

And he’s a troll. Perhaps of the Russian persuasion. 

[TheStoicPaisano 9904]

1 hour ago, Eskimohorn said:

The only way to know if it’s cocaine is to dip your fingers in it and taste it.

[notre dame joe 172]

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

The Hunter Biden trope is so idiotic, particularly coming from Trump or his supporters.

I have no doubt there is and was serious corruption in Ukraine.  Biden's hiring might have been a tiny, infinitesimal glimpse of that corruption (in terms of why did Burisma want a politically connected American on their board more than anything the Bidens did wrong), but if your goal is to investigate and eliminate Ukrainian corruption, Hunter Biden is about 999/1000 on your priority list.  Unless, of course, you're running against his Dad for President.

Further, if your goal is to investigate Ukrainian corruption, why investigate Hunter Biden?  Investigate Burisma and Ukrainians, not Americans and not Biden.  Biden might be some type of collateral damage, but the focus should be on Burisma.

Finally, the notion of Donald J. Trump questioning the bona fides of a hire is laughable in view of his own nepotism.

And you would be throwing a fit if Trump's FBI surveilled the Bidens  while saying they just happened to get 'swept up' in a counter-intelligence investigation.  It would not be hard to find people to say that = 'other high crimes and misdemeanors.' But so far even the surly harpies haven't accused Trump of using the intelligence services to interfere in the election.

[David Dennison 18646]

18 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

And you would be throwing a fit if Trump's FBI surveilled the Bidens  while saying they just happened to get 'swept up' in a counter-intelligence investigation.  It would not be hard to find people to say that = 'other high crimes and misdemeanors.' But so far even the surly harpies haven't accused Trump of using the intelligence services to interfere in the election.

But he didn't. He asked a foreign government to do it. In exchange for military aid.

He was rightly impeached.

[TwiceHorn 31240]

16 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

And you would be throwing a fit if Trump's FBI surveilled the Bidens  while saying they just happened to get 'swept up' in a counter-intelligence investigation.  It would not be hard to find people to say that = 'other high crimes and misdemeanors.' But so far even the surly harpies haven't accused Trump of using the intelligence services to interfere in the election.

So the Obama administration surveilled the Trumps?  First I have heard of it.

The FBI broke some rules surveilling Carter Page.  It may have acted a little shitty dealing with Flynn.  Standard.  Operating. Procedure.  Fart Barf and Itch suck as far as I am concerned.  And they do so across administrations.

Comey also struck a blow for Trump with his Clinton announcement.  I loathe Hillary and thought that was wrong.  But I didn't ascribe it to some grand conspiracy.

[TornACL 7674]

1 hour ago, notre dame joe said:

And you would be throwing a fit if Trump's FBI surveilled the Bidens  while saying they just happened to get 'swept up' in a counter-intelligence investigation.  It would not be hard to find people to say that = 'other high crimes and misdemeanors.' But so far even the surly harpies haven't accused Trump of using the intelligence services to interfere in the election.

It would help if you understood how government works. 

In the sane, non internet fantasy dork world, national intelligence and the FBI do not serve the acting president's interests 

They serve the country's interests.

And when a highly unprecedented and potentially threatening action takes place such as... I don't know, planned members of an incoming admin's cabinet breaking laws and repeatedly failing to disclose or actively hiding conflicts of interest, you're God damn right the Feds should investigate. 

So basically what this utterly ridiculous attempt at unmasking a conspiracy does, is remind us all that Trump signed up a bunch of corrupt pieces of shit in 2016. And most of them are now gone. Because even the head piece of shit couldn't handle the heat that brought. 

Those are utterly brilliant things to remind swing voters about, six months before an election. 

So good job, good effort. If the FBI and/or intelligence folks brought up an investigation on the Biden's, I would be *highly concerned*. Why? Because Trump has roundly rejected and ridiculed those teams at every turn. So I would feel quite confident they weren't acting beholden to him. 

The big question is, why would a sitting president ostracize his own intelligence arm? The only two possible answers are that he's the dumbest person alive, or that they don't act in his personal interest. And it makes him angry. 

Which of those two concerns you the most? 

Edited May 15, 2020 by TornACL

[jimmyjazz 45538]

6 minutes ago, TornACL said:

It would help if you understood how government works. 

In the sane, non internet fantasy dork world, national intelligence and the FBI do not serve the acting president's interests 

They serve the country's interests.

And when a highly unprecedented and potentially threatening action takes place such as... I don't know, planned members of an incoming admin's cabinet breaking laws and repeatedly failing to disclose or actively hiding conflicts of interest, you're God damn right the Feds should investigate. 

So basically what this utterly ridiculous attempt at unmasking a conspiracy does, is remind us all that Trump signed up a bunch of corrupt pieces of shit in 2016. And most of them are now gone. Because even the head piece of shit couldn't handle the heat that brought. 

Those are utterly brilliant things to remind swing voters about, six months before an election. 

So good job, good effort. If the FBI and/or intelligence folks brought up an investigation on the Biden's, I would be *highly concerned*. Why? Because Trump has roundly rejected and ridiculed those teams at every turn. So I would feel quite confident they weren't acting beholden to him. 

The big question is, why would a sitting president ostracize his own intelligence arm? The only two possible answers are that he's the dumbest person alive, or that they don't act in his personal interest. And it makes him angry. 

Which of those two concerns you the most? 

^^^ THIS.

[TwiceHorn 31240]

16 minutes ago, TornACL said:

It would help if you understood how government works. 

In the sane, non internet fantasy dork world, national intelligence and the FBI do not serve the acting president's interests 

They serve the country's interests.

And when a highly unprecedented and potentially threatening action takes place such as... I don't know, planned members of an incoming admin's cabinet breaking laws and repeatedly failing to disclose or actively hiding conflicts of interest, you're God damn right the Feds should investigate. 

So basically what this utterly ridiculous attempt at unmasking a conspiracy does, is remind us all that Trump signed up a bunch of corrupt pieces of shit in 2016. And most of them are now gone. Because even the head piece of shit couldn't handle the heat that brought. 

Those are utterly brilliant things to remind swing voters about, six months before an election. 

So good job, good effort. If the FBI and/or intelligence folks brought up an investigation on the Biden's, I would be *highly concerned*. Why? Because Trump has roundly rejected and ridiculed those teams at every turn. So I would feel quite confident they weren't acting beholden to him. 

The big question is, why would a sitting president ostracize his own intelligence arm? The only two possible answers are that he's the dumbest person alive, or that they don't act in his personal interest. And it makes him angry. 

Which of those two concerns you the most? 

Great post.  Also, on the last, why not both?

[Upgrayedd 5804]

36 minutes ago, TornACL said:

It would help if you understood how government works. 

In the sane, non internet fantasy dork world, national intelligence and the FBI do not serve the acting president's interests 

They serve the country's interests.

And when a highly unprecedented and potentially threatening action takes place such as... I don't know, planned members of an incoming admin's cabinet breaking laws and repeatedly failing to disclose or actively hiding conflicts of interest, you're God damn right the Feds should investigate. 

So basically what this utterly ridiculous attempt at unmasking a conspiracy does, is remind us all that Trump signed up a bunch of corrupt pieces of shit in 2016. And most of them are now gone. Because even the head piece of shit couldn't handle the heat that brought. 

Those are utterly brilliant things to remind swing voters about, six months before an election. 

So good job, good effort. If the FBI and/or intelligence folks brought up an investigation on the Biden's, I would be *highly concerned*. Why? Because Trump has roundly rejected and ridiculed those teams at every turn. So I would feel quite confident they weren't acting beholden to him. 

The big question is, why would a sitting president ostracize his own intelligence arm? The only two possible answers are that he's the dumbest person alive, or that they don't act in his personal interest. And it makes him angry. 

Which of those two concerns you the most? 

I'm stealing this.  Just to let you know.  Thanks.

[notre dame joe 172]

7 hours ago, TornACL said:

It would help if you understood how government works. 

In the sane, non internet fantasy dork world, national intelligence and the FBI do not serve the acting president's interests 

They serve the country's interests.

And when a highly unprecedented and potentially threatening action takes place such as... I don't know, planned members of an incoming admin's cabinet breaking laws and repeatedly failing to disclose or actively hiding conflicts of interest, you're God damn right the Feds should investigate. 

So basically what this utterly ridiculous attempt at unmasking a conspiracy does, is remind us all that Trump signed up a bunch of corrupt pieces of shit in 2016. And most of them are now gone. Because even the head piece of shit couldn't handle the heat that brought. 

Those are utterly brilliant things to remind swing voters about, six months before an election. 

So good job, good effort. If the FBI and/or intelligence folks brought up an investigation on the Biden's, I would be *highly concerned*. Why? Because Trump has roundly rejected and ridiculed those teams at every turn. So I would feel quite confident they weren't acting beholden to him. 

The big question is, why would a sitting president ostracize his own intelligence arm? The only two possible answers are that he's the dumbest person alive, or that they don't act in his personal interest. And it makes him angry. 

Which of those two concerns you the most? 

It would help if you read up on what Comey's FBI actually did. 

[notre dame joe 172]

8 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

So the Obama administration surveilled the Trumps?  First I have heard of it.

The FBI broke some rules surveilling Carter Page.  It may have acted a little shitty dealing with Flynn.  Standard.  Operating. Procedure.  Fart Barf and Itch suck as far as I am concerned.  And they do so across administrations.

Comey also struck a blow for Trump with his Clinton announcement.  I loathe Hillary and thought that was wrong.  But I didn't ascribe it to some grand conspiracy.

Are you saying SOME PEOPLE DID SOMETHING?

[Hookah Horns 3072]

12 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

This is surly.

[Anastasis 23390]

12 hours ago, TornACL said:

In the sane, non internet fantasy dork world, national intelligence and the FBI do not serve the acting president's interests 

In a sane, normal world, they also don't chase fantastical server conspiracies and use political opposition research/russian disinformation paid for by a political campaign as pivotal basis for probably cause for the most intrusive types of surveillance on an American citizen.

 

[TornACL 7674]

6 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

It would help if you read up on what Comey's FBI actually did. 

You guys always drop lines like this but then you always seem to struggle with a coherent explanation, when asked. So let's try again. 

And when you explain, make sure you fit in the part where Comey publicly announced an investigation into the Democratic candidate a week before the election. 

Because I struggle to understand how that is a coherent part of this vast anti Trump conspiracy led by Obama. 

But it sounds like you have a good handle on what really happened, so maybe you can explain it to me. 

[TwiceHorn 31240]

6 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

Are you saying SOME PEOPLE DID SOMETHING?

Yes, I am.  I am stating that the FBI fucked up and ignored procedures designed to protect civil rights.  Like they have since the beginning.  Without regard to who sits in the oval office.

As TornACL wisely and validly notes, although the President is the nominal commander in chief of the DOJ and its various constituent agencies, it is normally** unwise to believe that those agencies do the President's bidding.  There are at least two layers of command authority, the Director and the Attorney General, and dozens of layers of civil servant (ostensibly non-political) authority between individual FBI actors and the President.

It should probably also be noted that Comey is/was a lifelong Republican.  I should add that I think Comey's motivations in all of the machinations toward the end of his tenure were more in support of the ongoing political career of James Comey than one party or the other.

**Normally meaning when the President isn't a malignant narcissist who believes every federal agency should act in his personal interest without regard to the interest of the nation.

Edited May 15, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31240]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

In a sane, normal world, they also don't chase fantastical server conspiracies and use political opposition research/russian disinformation paid for by a political campaign as pivotal basis for probably cause for the most intrusive types of surveillance on an American citizen.

 

Actually, yeah, they probably do.  I can't cite sources due to the nature of it, but I'm reasonably sure the FBI will use any damn thing it comes across to support a warrant application and will be less than candid about its credibility.

Edited May 15, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Anastasis 23390]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Actually, yeah, they probably do.

Well, we know that that is what happens in this world.  This iteration of the simulation is far from sane and normal though. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Anastasis

[David Dennison 18646]

6 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

It would help if you read up on what Comey's FBI actually did. 

It would help if you understood what Mike Flynn did.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

The FBI failed to protect the population from an international criminal conspiracy to subvert the 2016 presidential election and America then turned into a fascist hell on earth once power was consolidated.  

But the real crime here is that the FBI attempted to prevent it from happening, what the fuck were they thinking?!?!

Looking forward to more of these "the FBI is the real enemy" conversations in the gulag. 

[GW Hayduke 1952]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

In a sane, normal world, they also don't chase fantastical server conspiracies and use political opposition research/russian disinformation paid for by a political campaign as pivotal basis for probably cause for the most intrusive types of surveillance on an American citizen.

 

Guys, I’m most TRIGGERED by the idea that raw intelligence was considered in the investigation of Russian election interference and that those invested in protecting our elections from election interference looked into a theory that a server was used somehow. Can you BELIEVE the feds looked into a SERVER!!!?  That is the REAL story!!

So if we all simultaneously screech our triggered concerns then hopefully we can somehow forget about the Russian troll farms, the Russian hacking of Dems, the trump tower meeting where trump campaign attempted to get Clinton dirt from Russians, trump campaign sending internal polling data to Russian cutouts, the dozen times trump attempted to obstruct the Russian investigation, trump’s campaign manager sent to jail, trump’s advisor sent to jail, and trump's attorney sent to jail.  None of that is the REAL story. We should focus our triggered concern on this server theory and raw intelligence that everyone knew was raw intelligence.

[wildcat09 29213]

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The FBI failed to protect the population from an international criminal conspiracy to subvert the 2016 presidential election and America then turned into a fascist hell on earth once power was consolidated.  

But the real crime here is that the FBI attempted to prevent it from happening, what the fuck were they thinking?!?!

Looking forward to more of these "the FBI is the real enemy" conversations in the gulag. 

But don't you see, Trump can only do fascist things because the FBI was bad before Trump, because fascists are notoriously respectful of institutional norms and practices and would never act like fascists if they couldn't find some sort of precedential conduct to justify their behavior.

[Anastasis 23390]

It wasn't raw intelligence.  It was totally unvetted horseshit intertwined with Russian disinformation that was used to tip a surveillance application, denied previously, over the edge for establishing probable cause.  The server conspiracy was a product of lawyers at Perkins Coie (or at most one degree of separation), who seeded the conspiracy either directly or through intermediaries at the FBI, the State Department, and in friendly journalist circles.  The purpose of both course being to stoke up Russia Russia Russia.

Nobody is asking you to forget troll farms posting pictures of Jack-off Jesus arm wresting Satan. Nobody is asking you to forget the Russians pulling the curtain back on the internal communications of the democratic party, and their machinations to tip the scales for HRC. Nobody is asking you to forget obstruction of justice.  But I do understand if you are incapable of simultaneously holding all of these things in your mind for consideration.

[GW Hayduke 1952]

21 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 The server conspiracy was a product of lawyers at Perkins Coie (or at most one degree of separation), who seeded the conspiracy either directly or through intermediaries at the FBI, the State Department, and in friendly journalist circles.

Holes Shite!!!?! Can you believe that!!?! mindexploding.gif That is one god damn triggered injustice! You are a damn patriot for keeping focused on the REAL story! 

Investigate the investigators!!!!

Trump and his campaign and Russia have been treated so unfairly!!! 

Edited May 15, 2020 by GW Hayduke

[wildcat09 29213]

31 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

It wasn't raw intelligence.  It was totally unvetted horseshit intertwined with Russian disinformation that was used to tip a surveillance application, denied previously, over the edge for establishing probable cause.  The server conspiracy was a product of lawyers at Perkins Coie (or at most one degree of separation), who seeded the conspiracy either directly or through intermediaries at the FBI, the State Department, and in friendly journalist circles.  The purpose of both course being to stoke up Russia Russia Russia.

Nobody is asking you to forget troll farms posting pictures of Jack-off Jesus arm wresting Satan. Nobody is asking you to forget the Russians pulling the curtain back on the internal communications of the democratic party, and their machinations to tip the scales for HRC. Nobody is asking you to forget obstruction of justice.  But I do understand if you are incapable of simultaneously holding all of these things in your mind for consideration.

You’re staring at that tree like you can bore a hole right through it if you just try hard enough.

[Anastasis 23390]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

You’re staring at that tree like you can bore a hole right through it if you just try hard enough.

GW Haydukes head is dense, but not sure that I would call it a tree. 

[hayden_horn 11360]

[GW Hayduke 1952]

18 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

GW Haydukes head is dense, but not sure that I would call it a tree. 

[workswithseed 2033]

3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

In a sane, normal world, they also don't chase fantastical server conspiracies and use political opposition research/russian disinformation paid for by a political campaign as pivotal basis for probably cause for the most intrusive types of surveillance on an American citizen.

 

It's not like the FBI ruined people's lives cause of politics.

[Anastasis 23390]

5 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

It's not like the FBI ruined people's lives cause of politics.

Nope. Never.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

4 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

It's not like the FBI ruined people's lives cause of politics.

[Anastasis 23390]

Comey not your homey anymore?

[Chooky 13296]

I'm tired of the word "gate" being slapped on the end of any issue and instantly making it a seemingly worthy scandal.  I now hope that a gate manufacturer funnels laundered money into PAC so we can have Gategate.   

[David Dennison 18646]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

It wasn't raw intelligence.  It was totally unvetted horseshit intertwined with Russian disinformation that was used to tip a surveillance application, denied previously, over the edge for establishing probable cause.  The server conspiracy was a product of lawyers at Perkins Coie (or at most one degree of separation), who seeded the conspiracy either directly or through intermediaries at the FBI, the State Department, and in friendly journalist circles.  The purpose of both course being to stoke up Russia Russia Russia.

Nobody is asking you to forget troll farms posting pictures of Jack-off Jesus arm wresting Satan. Nobody is asking you to forget the Russians pulling the curtain back on the internal communications of the democratic party, and their machinations to tip the scales for HRC. Nobody is asking you to forget obstruction of justice.  But I do understand if you are incapable of simultaneously holding all of these things in your mind for consideration.

Why was Mike Flynn talking to the Russians without notifying the White House?

[Anastasis 23390]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Why was Mike Flynn talking to the Russians without notifying the White House?

You go first. 

[David Dennison 18646]

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

You go first. 

I don't know. That's why I asked. But the fact that he was doing it at all warrants an investigation. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[Hookah Horns 3072]

4 hours ago, TornACL said:

You guys always drop lines like this but then you always seem to struggle with a coherent explanation, when asked. So let's try again. 

And when you explain, make sure you fit in the part where Comey publicly announced an investigation into the Democratic candidate a week before the election. 

Because I struggle to understand how that is a coherent part of this vast anti Trump conspiracy led by Obama. 

But it sounds like you have a good handle on what really happened, so maybe you can explain it to me. 

Obama was obviously trying to take out Hillary AND Trump, in a desperate ploy with hopes of being granted a third term out of necessity. 

Bam! Obamagate. You know what he did™

Edited May 15, 2020 by Hookah Horns

[Chooky 13296]

Did Richard Burr just fart in a crowded elevator before jumping out on the second floor? 

[notre dame joe 172]

On 4/16/2020 at 2:00 PM, David Dennison said:

I'm pretty sure everyone involved in this whole affair knows that Russian intelligence operations are aimed at influencing American politics. It's not really a secret.

They got those 30,000 for Facebook ads for sure.  Which state do you think the Russians tipped?

7 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yes, I am.  I am stating that the FBI fucked up and ignored procedures designed to protect civil rights.  Like they have since the beginning.  Without regard to who sits in the oval office.

As TornACL wisely and validly notes, although the President is the nominal commander in chief of the DOJ and its various constituent agencies, it is normally** unwise to believe that those agencies do the President's bidding.  There are at least two layers of command authority, the Director and the Attorney General, and dozens of layers of civil servant (ostensibly non-political) authority between individual FBI actors and the President.

It should probably also be noted that Comey is/was a lifelong Republican.  I should add that I think Comey's motivations in all of the machinations toward the end of his tenure were more in support of the ongoing political career of James Comey than one party or the other.

**Normally meaning when the President isn't a malignant narcissist who believes every federal agency should act in his personal interest without regard to the interest of the nation.

That's why Comey is a slimeball.  As are the other senior officials from the Obama-Biden regime.