The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Woland 755]

Well, if Josh Hawley is crowing about it, it must be true!

If only something had been done when the Republicans held the the White House and both houses of Congress.

[TwiceHorn 31987]

What all this nonsense appears to be about is Durham filed a motion concerning Sussman's representation by Latham & Watkins.  https://legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/USA-v.-Michael-Sussman-Durham-Motion-re-Conflict-of-Interest-2-11-2022.pdf

It contains a number of recitals, for which there is probably at least some evidence, but nothing in it is proven in any sense.

And, apparently, the allegation of "infiltration of servers," is the mining of DNS data to establish that various Trump entities were inordinately hitting up Russian-origin IPs.   Supposedly, the White House had private DNS servers, but the other entities did not.

I'm not sure it's in any way unlawful to mine the output of DNS servers (which I believe necessarily is public) to see where on the internet someone is "going."  It's not hacking into document, data, or email servers.

Load of bullshit whipped into a frenzy by right wing media.  As usual, thousands of hits from the usual suspects and hardly anything linking to source documents or doing anything but speculating.  H/t to legalinsurrection for at least providing the source doc.

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Probably because Mueller had no idea where he was half the time. 

He didn't do his reputation any favors. The 2 things, in order-

1)  Mueller- the "Company Man"- stating his preference to not testify before Congress because he didn't want to get pulled into the politics of it all. 

???

Your "company" decided this was going to be a political rather than criminal process. That wasn't a law mandated by Congress. That was a recently decided DOJ policy enacted by your "company" that announced it was re-opening an investigation into one candidate 11 days before the election while remaining mum regarding the investigation into the other candidate. You gotta be dragged to publicly state your findings at the 11th hour while the country's waiting with bated breath?

wtf

2) Stating that a) despite his investigation had turned a profit (!!!) b) his investigation took a fraction of the time of the Benghazi investigationS- 

he felt the need to wrap up his investigation due to public pressure, all but announcing to Trump and his minions of titty babies that perpetual public tantrums amputated from a single standard applied to all 

work.

Reap the wind.

What a wonderful world is rolling down the mountain. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26773]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Probably because Mueller had no idea where he was half the time. 

There there

[Satchel 6982]

• The five-year deadline is closing in to charge Donald Trump with crimes detailed by Robert Mueller.
• Trump benefited in office from a DOJ policy against prosecuting a sitting president.
• House Democrats are pushing to prevent future presidents from running out the clock for prosecution
• https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-prosecution-indictment-statute-of-limitations-mueller-obstruction-charges-doj-2022-1

[Anastasis 23699]

Schiff even said that his testimony was painful, that afterwards he understood why Mueller was being put in a bubble, why he team was trying to prevent testimony, and that he regretted the whole thing.  

Mueller was just the figure head. Nothing more. He was being manipulted while people were putting capes on him and lighting votive candles cause they needed that white knight.  And when the white knight fails...

 

[Anastasis 23699]

8 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

There there

I guess I unlike you watched his testimony. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Schiff even said that his testimony was painful, that afterwards he understood why Mueller was being put in a bubble, why he team was trying to prevent testimony, and that he regretted the whole thing.  

Mueller was just the figure head. Nothing more. He was being manipulted while people were putting capes on him and lighting votive candles cause they needed that white knight.  And when the white knight fails...

 

Will Schiff and Angry Democrats stop at nothing?!?!? 

[Anastasis 23699]

Just now, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Will Schiff and Angry Democrats stop at nothing?!?!? 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

Most testimony is playful and full of whimsy. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

Average Joes like me understand why Mueller was put in a bubble. Just didn't expect Mueller to publicly confirm it. Seems almost the opposite of poker faced and lawyerly. 

[Anastasis 23699]

A lot of people historically posting on this thread need to watch the Gabor Mate video. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

A lot of people historically posting on this thread need to watch the Gabor Mate video. 

Will do, eventually sometime this week, but rocking to some bopping tunes right now. Eitherhoo, gimme the set-up. Who's the guy on the left and who's the guy on the right? 

[Anastasis 23699]

1 minute ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Will do, eventually sometime this week, but rocking to some bopping tunes right now.

It's a ten minute video man. Just muster the attention span.  You might find it interesting. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

Also, I can never say "Times Square" not in this voice. 

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

Just now, Anastasis said:

It's a ten minute video man. Just muster the attention span.  You might find it interesting. 

Can't stop the rock, Ma!!!! Who are these kitty kats?

[TwiceHorn 31987]

50 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

He didn't do his reputation any favors. The 2 things, in order-

1)  Mueller- the "Company Man"- stating his preference to not testify before Congress because he didn't want to get pulled into the politics of it all. 

???

Your "company" decided this was going to be a political rather than criminal process. That wasn't a law mandated by Congress. That was a recently decided DOJ policy enacted by your "company" that announced it was re-opening an investigation into one candidate 11 days before the election while remaining mum regarding the investigation into the other candidate. You gotta be dragged to publicly state your findings at the 11th hour while the country's waiting with bated breath?

wtf

2) Stating that a) despite his investigation had turned a profit (!!!) b) his investigation took a fraction of the time of the Benghazi investigationS- 

he felt the need to wrap up his investigation due to public pressure, all but announcing to Trump and his minions of titty babies that perpetual public tantrums amputated from a single standard applied to all 

work.

Reap the wind.

What a wonderful world is rolling down the mountain. 

It wasn't recently enacted.  It went back to Nixon and was reaffirmed by the Clinton DOJ. 

It shouldn't have been as political  as it was.

He was never going to charge the sitting POTUS, that was total foolish wishcasting.

Nor, apparently, was he going to push very hard on getting full disclosure under oath from the sitting POTUS.  That is a bit more worthy of controversy, although the question is, to what end, if the President cannot be charged?

And, it shouldn't surprise anyone that he didn't want to testify to Congress.  Special Counsel don't answer to Congress, at least under the current rules.  Prosecutors don't generally testify to Congress about specific cases or investigations.  They're executive/judicial, not legislative.

And, Mueller was rightly conscious of criticisms of past Special Counsel:  takes too long, costs too much, wanders around too much.

People around here seem to have a problem when prosecutors don't follow their personal agenda.

Edited February 13, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31987]

53 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Schiff even said that his testimony was painful, that afterwards he understood why Mueller was being put in a bubble, why he team was trying to prevent testimony, and that he regretted the whole thing.  

Mueller was just the figure head. Nothing more. He was being manipulted while people were putting capes on him and lighting votive candles cause they needed that white knight.  And when the white knight fails...

 

I don't think Mueller was manipulated, except to a limited extent in redacting his report (I think he was encouraged by Barr and others to err on the side of redaction for political purposes).  I do think he was a "victim" of outlandish expectations of the type that permeate this thread and the entire board constantly:  now, sooner, why not done, death penalty, Mueller/Garland are pussies, Preet Bharara is an editorial badass (psst, he's a gaping pussy), etc.

Ironically, the dogshit reporting of the Durham thing above is virtually identical to the dogshit reporting and fantastical speculation that happened right here on this thread.

Edited February 13, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Anastasis 23699]

18 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Who are these kitty kats?

The one on the left is a physician specialized in child and adolescent psychology, addiction, and trauma. Which is a pretty good clinical foundation for unpacking this thread and the connections to the ones that preceded it on the other board. 

[Anastasis 23699]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't think Mueller was manipulated

He was the figure head Twice. He was not the individual deciding which threads got pulled. But he was the guy that got to sit in front of the binder and after recess Schiff figured out that he did not have command of the material. 

Compare the Horowitz testimony to the Mueller testimony. 

Night and day. One commands the information at hand.  The other fumbles and is clearly past his prime. 

This was obvious to even teh posters here. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

12 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It wasn't recently enacted.  It went back to Nixon and was reaffirmed by the Clinton DOJ. 

It shouldn't have been as political  as it was.

He was never going to charge the sitting POTUS, that was total foolish wishcasting.

The "recently" doesn't negate my point. 

Futhermore, no one (at least to my knowledge) was "wishcasting" and even if they were has nothing to do with my point, explicitly-

IF

the Powers That Be have determined that the Mueller Investigation is not a criminal investigation but rather a political investigation

THEN

don't declare at the conclusion of what you have deemed a political process, that you don't wanna get pulled into the politics of testifying publicly.

It's literally the root of the word. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

14 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The one on the left is a physician specialized in child and adolescent psychology, addiction, and trauma. Which is a pretty good clinical foundation for unpacking this thread and the connections to the ones that preceded it on the other board. 

That's way easier than typing his name

[TwiceHorn 31987]

13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

He was the figure head Twice. He was not the individual deciding which threads got pulled. But he was the guy that got to sit in front of the binder and after recess Schiff figured out that he did not have command of the material. 

Compare the Horowitz testimony to the Mueller testimony. 

Night and day. One commands the information at hand.  The other fumbles and is clearly past his prime. 

This was obvious to even teh posters here. 

I will accept that he was "at the mercy" of his lieutenants.  I do not believe he would have allowed himself to be manipulated by his superiors.

[Anastasis 23699]

2 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

That's way easier than typing his name

It's in the title of the linked video a few posts up, dumbass.  Smoke more weed turtle*. 

*or at least puff puff pass over here dipshit. 

[Anastasis 23699]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I will accept that he was "at the mercy" of his lieutenants.  

Tells us everything about which threads got pulled and which did not. 

[TwiceHorn 31987]

16 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

The "recently" doesn't negate my point. 

Futhermore, no one (at least to my knowledge) was "wishcasting" and even if they were has nothing to do with my point, explicitly-

IF

the Powers That Be have determined that the Mueller Investigation is not a criminal investigation but rather a political investigation

THEN

don't declare at the conclusion of what you have deemed a political process, that you don't wanna get pulled into the politics of testifying publicly.

It's literally the root of the word. 

Which powers that be.  Mueller was appointed as a special counsel to conduct a criminal investigation in which the broader Department of Justice had a conflict of interest.

From Mueller's perspective, and the way he handled it, it was a criminal investigation.  Largely without regard to the politics surrounding it, as explained in my post.  The big possible exception being not pursuing every detail of the criminal liability of the one person he could not indict and not provoking a "constitutional crisis."  While that decision was somewhat inherently political (if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice), it also explicitly  avoided further entanglement with the politics of the thing.

Mueller eschewed the politics of the thing at every opportunity.  Hence, he did not want to get further involved in the political spectacle of testifying before Congress.  Nothing inconsistent about that at all.

And you're dead wrong about wishcasting.  Dozens of posters and posts on this very thread fervently wished that Trump would be indicted by Mueller and expressed great disappointment that he was not.  And possibly greater disappointment that the report didn't serve as a virtual indictment for Trump for purposes of impeachment, which is a somewhat more realistic wish.

I remember, because I tried to inject a bit of sanity about what was likely to come of this investigation and what was not.

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Anastasis 23699]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Mueller was appointed as a special counsel to conduct a criminal investigation in which the broader Department of Justice had a conflict of interest.

His appointment had nothing to do with the COI issues at play. His selection very well provided the mechanism to sweep those under. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Which powers that be.  Mueller was appointed as a special counsel to conduct a criminal investigation in which the broader Department of Justice had a conflict of interest.

...in which the POTUS was never in criminal jeopardy per DOJ policy, hence no "wish-casting". 

[TwiceHorn 31987]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

His appointment had nothing to do with the COI issues at play. His selection very well provided the mechanism to sweep those under. 

The conflict of interest is that the DOJ is nominally headed by the President, and actually headed by his appointee.  A Special Counsel avoids that conflict by not being directly supervised by the DOJ.  The current system is flawed in that the appointment is still made by the AG or DAG and can be revoked or terminated by same. Prior Special Counsel statutes did not have that flaw.

A special counsel is called for almost any time the executive or an executive agency is broadly the target of an investigation.

[Anastasis 23699]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The conflict of interest is that the DOJ is nominally headed by the President, and actually headed by his appointee. 

Damn.  Must have missed that.  I thought that the conflict of interest was the fact that the FBI knew that Crossfire Hurricane was a total shit show that intertwined failure of FBI SOPs with political overtones and that they needed a good company man to look into things, but not look too hard. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Anastasis

[TwiceHorn 31987]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Damn.  Must have missed that.  I thought that the conflict of interest was the fact that the FBI knew that Crossfire Hurricane was a total shit show that intertwined failure of FBI SOPs with political overtones and that they needed a good company man to look into things, but not look too hard. 

§ 600.1 Grounds for appointing a Special Counsel.

The Attorney General, or in cases in which the Attorney General is recused, the Acting Attorney General, will appoint a Special Counsel when he or she determines that criminal investigation of a person or matter is warranted and -

(a) That investigation or prosecution of that person or matter by a United States Attorney's Office or litigating Division of the Department of Justice would present a conflict of interest for the Department or other extraordinary circumstances; and

(b) That under the circumstances, it would be in the public interest to appoint an outside Special Counsel to assume responsibility for the matter.

[workswithseed 2201]

31 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

It's in the title of the linked video a few posts up, dumbass.  Smoke more weed turtle*. 

*or at least puff puff pass over here dipshit. 

Is he a weed turtle? 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Damn.  Must have missed that.  I thought that the conflict of interest was the fact that the FBI knew that Crossfire Hurricane was a total shit show that intertwined failure of FBI SOPs with political overtones and that they needed a good company man to look into things, but not look too hard. 

FBI- Top Heavy on the Authoritarianism

[TwiceHorn 31987]

The other somewhat political aspect of the Mueller investigation was the indictment of the Russians.

While I have near-zero doubt that a crime was committed and that Muellerco would have secured convictions, they had to know that indicting Russians was going legally nowhere and that it was just "political theater."  Or maybe just justifying his existence.

[Anastasis 23699]

10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

§ 600.1 Grounds for appointing a Special Counsel.

The Attorney General, or in cases in which the Attorney General is recused, the Acting Attorney General, will appoint a Special Counsel when he or she determines that criminal investigation of a person or matter is warranted and -

(a) That investigation or prosecution of that person or matter by a United States Attorney's Office or litigating Division of the Department of Justice would present a conflict of interest for the Department or other extraordinary circumstances; and

(b) That under the circumstances, it would be in the public interest to appoint an outside Special Counsel to assume responsibility for the matter.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

49 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

From Mueller's perspective, and the way he handled it, it was a criminal investigation. 

Re-reading this thread, amongst the "wish casting" refs

 

56 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

 Hence, he did not want to get further involved in the political spectacle of testifying before Congress.  Nothing inconsistent about that at all.

 

 

Edited 33 minutes ago by TwiceHorn

If there is an absolute, hermetically sealed, steel trap firewall to criminal liability,

As determined by your "company"

then fuck you if you don't wanna go wading into the last resort deep end of political spectacle.

I like and respect you, but you're virtually diagraming the swamp. 

[Biff Tannen 46061]

34 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The other somewhat political aspect of the Mueller investigation was the indictment of the Russians.

While I have near-zero doubt that a crime was committed and that Muellerco would have secured convictions, they had to know that indicting Russians was going legally nowhere and that it was just "political theater."  Or maybe just justifying his existence.

Yeah this was weird.  Yay, you are essentially scolding our enemies who are on the other side of the world now and we'll never see them again.  Good work?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

Just put it out there

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Schiff even said that his testimony was painful, that afterwards he understood why Mueller was being put in a bubble, why he team was trying to prevent testimony, and that he regretted the whole thing.  

Mueller was just the figure head. Nothing more. He was being manipulted while people were putting capes on him and lighting votive candles cause they needed that white knight.  And when the white knight fails...

 

Ok. I got 16 seconds in and already the conversation is the Mueller Investigation was a total waste as opposed to the reality it exposed a multitude of crimes. 

Are we operating on the same facts here, amigo? If not, note them for me and we'll go from there.

 

[Anastasis 23699]

1 minute ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Ok. I got 16 seconds in

Longer than anyone actually expected. 

[Anastasis 23699]

If you can muster the attention span, the full video. Try to bridge the parts that make you uncomfortable or you disagree with to find the parts that might provide a little perspective. 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Anastasis

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

Longer than anyone actually expected. 

Its almost like the projection is compulsive even when I'm trying to be nice. 😄

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

Do ya do ya wanna know what a false premise is? 

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13619]

 

[Captainant 28387]

6 hours ago, Anastasis said:

If you can muster the attention span, the full video. Try to bridge the parts that make you uncomfortable or you disagree with to find the parts that might provide a little perspective. 

 

 

Always interesting to look up the media y'all choose to base your reality around. Is this an outlet you've been following for some time or just one that made the point you were looking for?

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-grayzone/

Quote

Founded in 2015 by Max Blumenthal, The Gray Zone is a far-left news and opinion website that produces long-form journalism. Max Blumenthal is a writing fellow of the Nation Institute. He also is a journalist, author, and filmmaker who is a regular contributor to the Questionable Russian news sites, RT and Sputnik. According to their about page, “The Grayzone is an independent news website dedicated to original investigative journalism and analysis on politics and empire.”

...

Finally, The Grayzone promotes conspiracy theories involving George Soros funding regime changes, and the editor Max Blumenthal claims that Bill Gates ran a Covid simulation before it occurred. This is false. In general, The Grayzone promotes a socialist left perspective that promotes conspiracy theories and pro-Russian/Chinese propaganda.

...

Overall, we rate The Grayzone Far-Left Biased and Questionable based on the promotion of propaganda, conspiracy theories, and consistent one-sided reporting. (D. Van Zandt 9/25/2021)

Because I'm not really into taking the word of an RT and Sputnik frequent contributor. But you have consistently been in the "Russia does nothing wrong"/"there is no there there" camp, so points for consistency I guess.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Captainant

[Anastasis 23699]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Always interesting to look up the media y'all choose to base your reality around. Is this an outlet you've been following for some time or just one that made the point you were looking for?

I picked up on the interview with Gabor when it was posted here, about three years ago (see below).  Figured that you might be familiar with it since you were engaged in the thread at that time. A few pages later you are telling everyone that will listen about DNS server logs being "strong evidence" of malfeasance.  

  

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Anastasis

[Anastasis 23699]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

But you have consistently been in the "Russia does nothing wrong"/"there is no there there" camp, so points for consistency I guess.

I know that your brain damage does not allow you even a brief moment of honesty or self-reflection.  There was a moment after the Horowitz report was released, when your self-owns were apparent to even you, that I thought you were getting really close to being able to find some depth with the latter, but it ended up being fleeting.  

Anyways, about six months before the timeframe when that video was posted here, and when you were still trying to figure out how much DNS log you could take before the gag reflex kicked in, I posted my camp.  I think that it held together pretty well 3.5 years later.

And as far as owning what I believe, here you go.  I believe that the Russian influence campaign, although technically sophisticated in the sense that they integrated multiple streams of data for deployment broadly across multiple platforms, was not particularly sophisticated in terms of content or the psychology involved. It was based on phishing a campaign staffer to expose the embarrassing internal communications of the HRC campaign and the DNC, and photoshopping pictures of jesus arm wrestling satan and posting them on facebook.  Real James Bond shit. To the extent that their efforts were successful, they were not because of some essential colluding counterpart (Note: I would do a 180 on this point if coordination along the lines of what I outlined up post, in terms of coordinated content development and targeting was demonstrated). They were successful because we are a fundamentally broken society, with dysfunctional political parties, a corrupted political system, and an electorate with an attention span that is measured in three digit character count. The Russians exploited the weaknesses that originated from our toxic  political environment, and yep, the responsibility for that is broad. Until we address the fundamental flaws that cut across almost every institution of our culture and society, until we make broad reforms in our political system including preferably a major realignment of our political parties, we're going to keep marching right into the turns of our political death spiral. We can and should flush out who exactly was coordinating with foreigners to influence American institutions and the election process. We can and should hang traitors.  We can and should knee cap Russia. But none of that is going to change the ultimate trajectory of the American empire. It will end as most do, the result of internal decay.  

[wildcat09 29556]

Ana, man, you have got to find something better to do with your Saturday nights.

[Anastasis 23699]

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Ana, man, you have got to find something better to do with your Saturday nights.

Can't get much worse that watching pre-season MLS. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Anastasis