The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Pods 7637]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This is why polarization is the biggest threat to America 

It's really unfortunate that the easiest buttons to push also happen to be the most effective. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just now, Lurch said:

 

And the Russians.

 

The Russians just exploited our already shitty population.  If our citizens were better educated and capable of critical thinking, the Russian influence would have little effect.  Again, it’s on us.

The smarter European countries like Norway/Finland have done a much better job of keeping their citizens informed on what the Russians are doing.

[jimmyjazz 47221]

6 minutes ago, Pods said:

<to David Dennison> No, you don't share my frustration. You've been pretty open about looking forward to as extreme as possible of a progressive backlash on a variety of issues. As much as you don't like the results of these procedures Trump is creating, you look forward to using the tools Trump is creating for your own side. 

Moderates like me are going to be fucked twice when that happens. 

Talk and expose it and don't normalize the behavior. Make sure your friends and family know it's a national security election and make sure they vote. 

What is your concern about what might happen with a slight Dem majority in the House and Senate as well as a Dem POTUS?  SCOTUS will still be conservative.  What "backlash" are you anticipating?

[David Dennison 19553]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The Russians just exploited our already shitty population.  If our citizens were better educated and capable of critical thinking, the Russian influence would have little effect.  Again, it’s on us.

The smarter European countries like Norway/Finland have done a much better job of keeping their citizens informed on what the Russians are doing.

Yeah, well some of us are doing everything we can electorally to make the United States more like Norway and Finland. There is resistance from the right leaning quarters of the population.

[Lurch 5950]

What is your concern about what might happen with a slight Dem majority in the House and Senate as well as a Dem POTUS?  SCOTUS will still be conservative.  What "backlash" are you anticipating?

Lots of really gay cakes

[Anastasis 23723]

1 minute ago, Lurch said:

 

And the Russians.

 

The Russians only exploited via amplification the fractures and political dysfunction that we created. If you want to fix the problem, we need to look in the mirror and fix ourselves. That's not going to happen. We are in reality only going to make things worse. 

[Brisketexan 106919]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

The Russians only exploited via amplification the fractures and political dysfunction that we created. If you want to fix the problem, we need to look in the mirror and fix ourselves. That's not going to happen. We are in reality only going to make things worse. 

Sorry, dude.  I'm the board Eeyore.  You're the "both sides" guy.  Stay in your fucking lane.

[Pods 7637]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

What is your concern about what might happen with a slight Dem majority in the House and Senate as well as a Dem POTUS?  SCOTUS will still be conservative.  What "backlash" are you anticipating?

I don't want to derail the thread, but you're likely to also see major overhauls at the statehouse level which will lead to completely redrawn districts after the 2020 Census. I'm not talking immediate, short-term.

[atomheartbevo 90653]

41 minutes ago, Pods said:

This is not politics, it's Banana Republic bullshit. Don't attempt to normalize what is happening. This is not normal. 

Republicans would be losing their absolute shit if this had happened under Obama, complete with shutting out Republicans out of one meeting while having Obama's attorney hanging around.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Part of me thinks going hard left might do us some good.  Our population is overworked and underpaid on the whole.  

The current elites that capitalized on the “American Dream” have since pulled up the ladder and made it increasingly difficult for people to work their way to true socioeconomic prosperity.

The insane rising costs of healthcare and education has crippled our population.

We need a reckoning to fix these problems.

[Pods 7637]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Republicans would be losing their absolute shit if this had happened under Obama, complete with shutting out Republicans out of one meeting while having Obama's attorney hanging around.

There's going to be a metric shit-ton of PhD dissertations written about Trump and his supporters. 

[jimmyjazz 47221]

8 minutes ago, Pods said:

I don't want to derail the thread, but you're likely to also see major overhauls at the statehouse level which will lead to completely redrawn districts after the 2020 Census. I'm not talking immediate, short-term.

Well, a lot of districts need to be redrawn.  If they're gerrymandered just as bad the other way . . . that's not right, either.

[Pods 7637]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, a lot of districts need to be redrawn.  If they're gerrymandered just as bad the other way . . . that's not right, either.

I agree with the first part and I'm hoping the second doesn't happen. 

[atomheartbevo 90653]

1 minute ago, Pods said:

There's going to be a metric shit-ton of PhD dissertations written about Trump and his supporters. 

The fact that Trump is doing this, and his attorney is in on it, must mean things are incredibly serious.  This is a last ditch attempt to get Congress to bail him out somehow.  Kelly and Trump's attorney know exactly how this looks to the rest of the world, and they don't give a fuck.

[Anastasis 23723]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Part of me thinks going hard left might do us some good.  Our population is overworked and underpaid on the whole.  

 The current elites that capitalized on the “American Dream” have since pulled up the ladder and made it increasingly difficult for people to work their way to true socioeconomic prosperity.

The insane rising costs of healthcare and education has crippled our population.

We need a reckoning to fix these problems.

The elites aren't going to take the hit of the coming leftward jolt.  The middle class, and in particular the upper middle class, will be the ones eating the shit. 

[kevwun 16441]

They tried to arrange a separate briefing just for Nunes also.  Schiff got to crash it at the last minute.  They give not one fuck about optics anymore.  If this doesn't end soon, Trump is going to end up trying to order Sessions to arrest Mueller.

Edited May 24, 2018 by kevwun

[Pods 7637]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/05/fifteen-unanswered-criminal-law-questions-about-trump/561080/

Fifteen Unanswered Criminal-Law Questions About Trump

A short—and by no means exhaustive—list of the open questions swirling around the president, his campaign, his company, and his family.

1. Trump campaign aides and associates met with Russian agents in advance of the Russian hacks and releases of Democratic internal communications. Did these meetings lead to any form of coordination between the Trump campaign, the Trump family, or Trump supporters on the one hand and Russian intelligence and its proxy, WikiLeaks, on the other?
2. Russia engaged in large-scale and illegal expenditures on social media to help elect Trump. Did the Trump campaign, the Trump family, or Trump supporters coordinate or assist in any way with these violations of U.S. law?
3. Trump campaign aides reportedly met with representatives of Persian Gulf governments who offered to violate U.S. law to help elect Trump. What came of those meetings?
4. How much Russian money has flowed into the Trump family and the Trump Organization since Trump suddenly and mysteriously became cash-rich in 2006?
5. Did all the foreign funds flowing into the Trump family and Trump Organization comply with applicable U.S. laws on taxation and money laundering?
6. Did the Trump family and Trump Organization themselves comply with all U.S. laws on taxation and money laundering?
7. To what extent was Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort beholden to foreign entities? What services, if any, did he provide them?
8. To what extent was Trump’s first national-security adviser, Michael Flynn, beholden to foreign entities? What services did he provide them?
9. The same question applies to Sam Clovis, George Papadopoulos, and other figures on Trump’s campaign and foreign-policy teams.
10. The family business then run by Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser, Jared Kushner, was in desperate need of funds in late 2016. The record shows he approached entities in China, Russia, and Qatar for aid. What is the exact list of foreign entities solicited by Kushner? What pitch did he offer them in exchange for their prospective investments? Did his pursuit of these investments ever tilt the administration’s foreign policy?
11. After the election, Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen obtained millions of dollars from foreign and domestic businesses in return for his promise to consult with them. Did Cohen share any of those payments in any way with the president, his family, or his businesses?
12. Since the election, Trump’s companies have received millions of dollars in licensing fees from entities in Turkey, the Philippines, India, Indonesia, the United Arab Emirates, and other foreign countries. How much have the president’s businesses been paid by foreign persons and what portion of his total income originates in foreign payments?
13. Is it true that Stormy Daniels’s daughter was threatened in order to coerce Daniels to sign a nondisclosure agreement with Trump? If so, who ordered and delivered that threat? Did any other women sign such agreements? Were any of them threatened?
14. Was Trump in any way connected to the payment of $1.6 million to former Playboy model Shera Bechard, an agreement facilitated by Cohen—Trump’s personal lawyer—and using the same aliases and structure as the agreement Cohen struck with Stormy Daniels on Trump’s behalf?
15. Elliott Broidy, the former deputy finance chair of the Republican National Committee, told The Wall Street Journal that he had an affair with Bechard, and that she subsequently decided to terminate her pregnancy. He made the first installment of that payment on November 30; he had a private meeting with Trump on December 2, at which he pushed for a crackdown on Qatar, lobbying for which he expected to be rewarded by the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia. How did Broidy land that meeting—and why did Trump prove willing to follow his advice?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The elites aren't going to take the hit of the coming leftward jolt.  The middle class, and in particular the upper middle class, will be the ones eating the shit. 

This is the classic talking point of the elites.  Fear mongering the middle class so they keep voting in people that rob us blind.

People in the United States shouldn’t go bankrupt because they get cancer. They also shouldn’t have to pay off student loans their entire adult life.  We’re taxed enough but the money goes to wrong places.  We don’t need to spend a trillion dollars a year on the military when the Russians can Facebook subvert everything the military is supposed to protect with ease. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[David Dennison 19553]

10 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The elites aren't going to take the hit of the coming leftward jolt.  The middle class, and in particular the upper middle class, will be the ones eating the shit. 

The middle class will do better with a leftward jolt. Most of the upper middle class will, too.

[Anastasis 23723]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This is the classic talking point of the elites.  Fear mongering the middle class so they keep voting in people that rob us blind.

 People in the United States shouldn’t go bankrupt because they get cancer. They also shouldn’t have to pay off student loans their entire adult life.  We’re taxed enough but the money goes to wrong places.  We don’t need to spend a trillion dollars a year on the military when the Russians can Facebook subvert everything the military is supposed to protect with ease. 

Government injecting itself into both education and medicine is one of the key factors driving the run away inflation in these  sectors over the last 40 years, but yeah, maybe the solution is more government involvement.  I do agree on military spending. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Anastasis

[jimmyjazz 47221]

13 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The middle class will do better with a leftward jolt. Most of the upper middle class will, too.

The very fact that the rightward jolt is fucking the middle and upper middle class in the ass tells us this.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Government injecting itself into both education and medicine is one of the key factors driving the run away inflation in these  sectors over the last 40 years, but yeah, maybe the solution is more government involvement.  I do agree on military spending. 

The “free market conservatives” just had their best chance to address these issues and they failed catastrophically to reduce costs in these sectors.  In fact, it’s almost like they deliberately exacerbated the problems.

Their time is up. 

 

[Anastasis 23723]

Well, other than thinking that republicans are either free market or conservatives you are correct. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Your boy is in deep shit

 

 

[Ted Lange 16417]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Your boy is in deep shit

 

 

Oooops 

[Ted Lange 16417]

This should make 20 indictments for Mueller.  Still ZERO Benghazi or emails scandal..... in 1/3 the time.  Which Hunt.  LOL.

 

 

[NameAlreadyInUse 5169]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Government injecting itself into both education and medicine is one of the key factors driving the run away inflation in these  sectors over the last 40 years, but yeah, maybe the solution is more government involvement.  I do agree on military spending. 

State government was full on in charge when I went to UT.  I paid around $20/hour the last semester I was there.  Then the state government reduced funding and started relying on federally backed loans to pay for public higher education.  What made the price go up was giving the banks a vested interest in raising the cost of higher education.  So they set about making that shit happen.  I don't even think today's college student at UT would have a frame of reference for what a $20/hour semester bill would look like, and that wasn't that long ago. When you give a financial interest to private entities for public goods, you put yourself in a terrible position.  Private interests are going to figure out how to maximize profit and minimize risk, and when they can buy off the politicians making the laws, not only can they minimize risk, they can fucking socialize it with fed backed loans.  I think we've seen the effects of that in education very clearly.  

[27-25 2085]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Government injecting itself into both education and medicine is one of the key factors driving the run away inflation in these  sectors over the last 40 years, but yeah, maybe the solution is more government involvement.  I do agree on military spending. 

States cut funding for education over the years and tuition skyrockets.

The US has perhaps the most "free market" healthcare system in the developed western world and yet we have by far the highest healthcare costs based on GDP.

I agree that gov't can really waste money.  In the private sector they don't call it waste, they call it profit.  Regardless of the term, it's money out of peoples' pockets.

[Anastasis 23723]

We have nothing resembling a free market healthcare system in the United States.

I agree with everything in NAIU's post.  Add in some administrative bloat.  

[Brisketexan 106919]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

We have nothing resembling a free market healthcare system in the United States.

I agree with everything in NAIU's post.  Add in some administrative bloat.  

So, we have a choice (let's use education as an example):

1 -- largely a public/publicly-funded creature, with the expected gov't bureaucracy and inefficiency.

2 -- largely a privately-financed endeavor, still with some large-entity bureaucracy, driven by a profit motive.

 

Which one costs more?  I think that those of us who have been around, say, the UT system over the last 30 years, can say with confidence that the move from publicly-financed to private-debt-financed education has seen costs skyrocket.

We don't get to pick "perfect."  There IS no perfect option.  1 and 2 above are our choices.  We can perhaps see that the results (that is, the quality of the education received) is better under one scenario or the other (I don't know if we can, but presume that we could pinpoint some qualitative difference).  The question would remain, is that qualitative difference worth the price differential?

Maybe publicly-funded education is a Chevy Malibu, at a Malibu price.  And private-debt-funded education is a Toyota Camry.  But at a Mercedes E-class price.

We can do the same exercise with healthcare (although in that case, I think we can compare our system to publicly-funded systems and see that we're getting a used Chevy Nova outcome at a Porsche price).

The free market is only as good at producing results as it needs to be in order to extract the maximum profit.  I'm not saying that's an inherently bad thing; profit motive is a driver of a dynamic and successful economy.  But when the mission is "provide something as cheap as possible for the producer, charging as much as possible to the consumer," that mission really hoses us when applied to things like education and healthcare.

Which, to bring it back home to this administration....we're literally dealing with a man who sold shitty steaks at a USDA Prime price.  They want to suck as much money as possible from we the people while expending as little effort/expenditure as possible.  And they'll do whatever it takes to keep the grift going.

[Francisco 2.0 32600]

23 minutes ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

State government was full on in charge when I went to UT.  I paid around $20/hour the last semester I was there.  Then the state government reduced funding and started relying on federally backed loans to pay for public higher education.  What made the price go up was giving the banks a vested interest in raising the cost of higher education.  So they set about making that shit happen.  I don't even think today's college student at UT would have a frame of reference for what a $20/hour semester bill would look like, and that wasn't that long ago. When you give a financial interest to private entities for public goods, you put yourself in a terrible position.  Private interests are going to figure out how to maximize profit and minimize risk, and when they can buy off the politicians making the laws, not only can they minimize risk, they can fucking socialize it with fed backed loans.  I think we've seen the effects of that in education very clearly.  

 

Yeah, it's OU, so  but earlier this year President Boren stated that the university received around half of it's budget each year from the State of Oklahoma when he was named president.  Now, it's down to 18% or something like that; which led him to comment (paraphrasing) at some point, when does the university become private, or strictly federally funded?  At what point is it no longer a state university?

 

 

[Pods 7637]

Guys, we're way the fuck off the reservation on this thread and there's important shit breaking today. 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Pods

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

RUDY’s public statements are more worthless than Trump’s.

[Pods 7637]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

RUDY’s public statements are more worthless than Trump’s.

Trump's lawyer confirming that he is expecting leaks is not worthless. It's idiotic, but it's not worthless. 

[sheeeit 129]

46 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Your boy is in deep shit

 

 

I do not really know anything about Stone and if he is corrupt then fuck him.  But what did he do here that would be illegal?  Why would he be indicted?  I actually read the article.  Both people involved say they never received any info direct from Assange and there is no record of any info.  In fact, the go beteween said he never even requested the info from Assange.

I honestly do not know the answer but is it illegal to ask if someone has hacked emails?  If they do is it illegal to receive them?

[Gil Bang 26244]

Jesus Christ

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11860]

39 minutes ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

State government was full on in charge when I went to UT.  I paid around $20/hour the last semester I was there.  Then the state government reduced funding and started relying on federally backed loans to pay for public higher education.  What made the price go up was giving the banks a vested interest in raising the cost of higher education.  So they set about making that shit happen.  I don't even think today's college student at UT would have a frame of reference for what a $20/hour semester bill would look like, and that wasn't that long ago. When you give a financial interest to private entities for public goods, you put yourself in a terrible position.  Private interests are going to figure out how to maximize profit and minimize risk, and when they can buy off the politicians making the laws, not only can they minimize risk, they can fucking socialize it with fed backed loans.  I think we've seen the effects of that in education very clearly.  

Same concept applies with SNAP.  Cash cow for private business.  

[Anastasis 23723]

21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

So, we have a choice (let's use education as an example):

1 -- largely a public/publicly-funded creature, with the expected gov't bureaucracy and inefficiency.

2 -- largely a privately-financed endeavor, still with some large-entity bureaucracy, driven by a profit motive.

 

Which one costs more?  I think that those of us who have been around, say, the UT system over the last 30 years, can say with confidence that the move from publicly-financed to private-debt-financed education has seen costs skyrocket.

 We don't get to pick "perfect."  There IS no perfect option.  1 and 2 above are our choices.  We can perhaps see that the results (that is, the quality of the education received) is better under one scenario or the other (I don't know if we can, but presume that we could pinpoint some qualitative difference).  The question would remain, is that qualitative difference worth the price differential?

 Maybe publicly-funded education is a Chevy Malibu, at a Malibu price.  And private-debt-funded education is a Toyota Camry.  But at a Mercedes E-class price.

We can do the same exercise with healthcare (although in that case, I think we can compare our system to publicly-funded systems and see that we're getting a used Chevy Nova outcome at a Porsche price).

The free market is only as good at producing results as it needs to be in order to extract the maximum profit.  I'm not saying that's an inherently bad thing; profit motive is a driver of a dynamic and successful economy.  But when the mission is "provide something as cheap as possible for the producer, charging as much as possible to the consumer," that mission really hoses us when applied to things like education and healthcare.

 Which, to bring it back home to this administration....we're literally dealing with a man who sold shitty steaks at a USDA Prime price.  They want to suck as much money as possible from we the people while expending as little effort/expenditure as possible.  And they'll do whatever it takes to keep the grift going.

I think you lost track of the conversation on this page. The topic was the coming hard left lurch. If you think that the hard left Bernie Sanders lunge at "free college for everyone" is going to elevate the quality of academics at an institution like the University of Texas, I'd like to introduce you to a few deans at our school so they can bring that delusion right back to reality. Government back stopping risk, in healthcare, education, housing, finance, etc. yields moral hazard yields the fucked up situations we have dealt with on all those fronts in the last 20 years.  I got not problem with publicly funded education. I would strongly support certain aspects of publicly funded healthcare when it makes sense in system that allows for a true free market dynamic while protecting the vulnerable in society, and have outlined those thoughts a number of times on the previous board.  But you and I know damn well that's not where this story is headed. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Anastasis

[Pods 7637]

I'm honestly pretty surprised Emmett Flood did this. He seemed to be a straight shooter coming in, but I guess no actually ethical lawyer is going to get involved with the rest of these cretins at this stage. 

 

 

[HenryJames 67393]

19 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

I do not really know anything about Stone and if he is corrupt then fuck him.  But what did he do here that would be illegal?  Why would he be indicted?  I actually read the article.  Both people involved say they never received any info direct from Assange and there is no record of any info.  In fact, the go beteween said he never even requested the info from Assange.

I honestly do not know the answer but is it illegal to ask if someone has hacked emails?  If they do is it illegal to receive them?

Just asking questions.

[atomheartbevo 90653]

24 minutes ago, Pods said:

I'm honestly pretty surprised Emmett Flood did this. He seemed to be a straight shooter coming in, but I guess no actually ethical lawyer is going to get involved with the rest of these cretins at this stage. 

 

 

I really do think Trump and his team are a lot more desperate than what we’ve seen.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[hayden_horn 11402]

2 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Just asking questions.

it's fucking amazing. he posts from a template. "hey, guys, i don't know anything about any of this, but let me list a litany of questions that favor only one side of the matter."

Edited May 25, 2018 by hayden_horn

[triplehorn 2664]

Mueller court filing last evening offers a good summary of the complexity and overlap of the investigation:

Mueller Filing: Probe Is Ongoing With ‘Multiple Lines Of Non-Public Inquiry’

 

"Special Counsel Robert Mueller stressed that his investigation into Russian election meddling was ongoing and consisted of “multiple lines of non-public inquiry,” in a court filing Wednesday evening in a lawsuit brought by media companies seeking the release of certain records related to the probe.

“Many aspects of the investigation are factually and legally interconnected: they involve overlapping courses of conduct, relationships, and events, and they rely on similar sources, methods, and techniques,” the special counsel said. “The investigation is not complete and its details remain non-public.”

The Associated Press, CNN, New York Times, Washington Post and Politico are suing for the unsealing of various types of warrants used in the special counsel’s investigation, as well as sealed court documents specific to the case of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, who was indicted last fall.

“The fact that certain charges have been brought does not imply that the Special Counsel’s investigation into the assigned matters is closed,” Mueller said, arguing against the release of the records. “Nor does it imply that the search warrant materials could be unsealed at this time without creating a serious risk of jeopardizing the ongoing and interconnected aspects of the investigation.”

 

^^^ this x ∞

[David Dennison 19553]

2 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Mueller court filing last evening offers a good summary of the complexity and overlap of the investigation:

Mueller Filing: Probe Is Ongoing With ‘Multiple Lines Of Non-Public Inquiry’

 

"Special Counsel Robert Mueller stressed that his investigation into Russian election meddling was ongoing and consisted of “multiple lines of non-public inquiry,” in a court filing Wednesday evening in a lawsuit brought by media companies seeking the release of certain records related to the probe.

“Many aspects of the investigation are factually and legally interconnected: they involve overlapping courses of conduct, relationships, and events, and they rely on similar sources, methods, and techniques,” the special counsel said. “The investigation is not complete and its details remain non-public.”

The Associated Press, CNN, New York Times, Washington Post and Politico are suing for the unsealing of various types of warrants used in the special counsel’s investigation, as well as sealed court documents specific to the case of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, who was indicted last fall.

“The fact that certain charges have been brought does not imply that the Special Counsel’s investigation into the assigned matters is closed,” Mueller said, arguing against the release of the records. “Nor does it imply that the search warrant materials could be unsealed at this time without creating a serious risk of jeopardizing the ongoing and interconnected aspects of the investigation.”

 

^^^ this x ∞

The amount of criminality that he is going to unveil will be staggering.

[JimmyJames 12271]

A. That Mueller filing tells me trump is straight up fucked

B. Trumps letter today is probably the most embarrassing thing America ever burped out

C. Trumpkins can throw themselves off the cliff for all I care, I’ll do my best to stop my Dad and will probably convince him, but all your other dads can just go over the cliff for all I care

D. Someday this too shall pass. 

Night. 

[RayDog 682]

15 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The amount of criminality that he is going to unveil will be staggering.

And the SDNY AG may have him beat when they are done.

[TwiceHorn 32083]

3 hours ago, Pods said:

I'm honestly pretty surprised Emmett Flood did this. He seemed to be a straight shooter coming in, but I guess no actually ethical lawyer is going to get involved with the rest of these cretins at this stage. 

 

 

A fair number of aggressive lawyers, particularly those with aggressive clients, will take every opportunity to be heard, no matter how inappropriate.  Some will consider silence a valor that is the better part of courage, others not so much.  It isn't a style I particularly admire, but sometimes it can be effective.  This is, of course, speaking to the normal course of affairs, which this really isn't.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]