The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

17 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Everyone really should the whole damn article.  

I read the whole article.  

If the IC knew Trump was a Kremlin asset early on, why didn’t they expose him before he became fucking POTUS?!?

Where was the Deep State when we needed them?!?

Edited May 28, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I read the whole article.  

If the IC knew Trump was a Kremlin asset early on, why didn’t they expose him before he became fucking POTUS?!?

Where was the Deep State when we needed them?!?

Oh wait, Hillary told everyone during the debate...

JFC ^This video is such a savage takedown in retrospect.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[El Diablo 4,232]

1 hour ago, R2D2 said:

What's next is the end of democracy, truth & law & order in all respects other than in the form of marshall law despotism. Which means America is done.

 

It was alarming the first time I saw this sentiment back in '92 and it was being applied to Bill Clinton and the Dems. Flat circle.

[Pods 7,522]

1 hour ago, triplehorn said:

Going back a year, I'll grant that I was off by a mile in the timing of any indictments.  But the only real thing I am convinced of and consistently posted about happens to  be a glaring omission on your part -- that Trump knowingly and willingly coordinated with Putin and the Russian intelligence apparatus to help throw the election to Trump using cash, manpower, data, and engineered psy-ops.  

And I'm even more convinced of it today. 

VVV Everyone should read this start to finish VVV

Meanwhile we are being subjected to a massive disinformation and lying campaign by Trump who is currently in a full panic and flailing wildly.

I know what his claimed background is, but I don't find Schindler credible and I've noticed the twitter national security folks I do find credible are also skeptical of him. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

 

[triplehorn 2,664]

7 minutes ago, Pods said:

I know what his claimed background is, but I don't find Schindler credible and I've noticed the twitter national security folks I do find credible are also skeptical of him. 

I'm open to considering critics of Schindler, but what about his reporting do you not find credible?  Do you think he's making stuff up?  

The article linked above contains a lot factual assertions about the proliferation of SIGINT related to Russian actors interacting with Trump and his kids, with what, half a dozen or more foreign Intel agencies allied with the US sharing the fruits of their own spying well before Papadopolous' boozy chat.

Trump and his kids are caught dead to rights on signals intelligence.  It was just 3 nights ago that news broke that Spain is handing over tapes of DonJr with Torshin and that Jr better brace for what it reveals.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Schindler doesn’t break any news.  He just says what many already know but hasn’t been put on blast in the MSM.  There wasn’t one thing in his article I haven’t heard before and none of it was earth shattering.  Trump was a Kremlin asset? No shit?  Other countries were snooping on corrupt Russian mafia guys that were talking to Trump people? You don’t say? 

Schindler seems like more of an opportunist than benign citizen journalist.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

I mean, even when the whole country hated them, even Nixon could find love in Yorba Linda and Carter in Plains.

I know NYC is completely different animal from all other cities and towns but they still usually love a hometown boy who's done good.

Oh, and word on the Twitter streets is that Melania has GTFO and moved back to NYC.

I hope the paps are camped outside Trump Tower to get confirmation.

[triplehorn 2,664]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Schindler doesn’t break any news.  He just says what many already know but hasn’t been put on blast in the MSM.  There wasn’t one thing in his article I haven’t heard before and none of it was earth shattering.  Trump was a Kremlin asset? No shit?  Other countries were snooping on corrupt Russian mafia guys that were talking to Trump people? You don’t say? 

Schindler seems like more of an opportunist than benign citizen journalist.

Where else have you heard what Schindler wrote about regarding pre-crossfire hurricane SIGINT on Trump and his kids?  That's great if there's corroboration.

Realize also most posters here don't think or don't suspect that Mueller is sitting on a whole lotta tapes that were obtained perfectly legally and in a manner that is procedurally routine in all counterintelligence investigations -- tapes that will land them all in prison.

[hobbes2702 12,771]

1 hour ago, JukeJointJunkie said:

Lol. Lighten up Francis.

Don’t be a troll. Pretty simple

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

11 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Where else have you heard what Schindler wrote about regarding pre-crossfire hurricane SIGINT on Trump and his kids?  That's great if there's corroboration.

Let me put it this way... I would be SHOCKED if there wasn’t plenty of SIGINT and intercepts from multiple countries on Trump, his kids, and Russian gangsters.  I would also be shocked if Michael Flynn wasn’t under close international  surveillance since 2013.

Schindler doesn’t give any details of what exactly is on SIGINT or the parties involved so he’s got nothing of substance that can be confirmed or denied.  It’s awfully convenient.

[triplehorn 2,664]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I read the whole article.  

If the IC knew Trump was a Kremlin asset early on, why didn’t they expose him before he became fucking POTUS?!?

Where was the Deep State when we needed them?!?

I can't speak for the IC, but the way they are playing this suggests that something a lot bigger than Donald Trump is in the balance.  There's a difference between going after an invasive weed by quickly pruning back the leaves versus more patiently pulling out the whole damn thing by the roots.  I'm guessing Putin, international mob and money laundering are in the crosshairs.  In this sense Trump is an unwitting Trojan horse of sorts for allied western IC's.  

[achooloco 1,065]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Yankees fans love Rudy.

 

Awesome

[triplehorn 2,664]

49 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Let me put it this way... I would be SHOCKED if there wasn’t plenty of SIGINT and intercepts from multiple countries on Trump, his kids, and Russian gangsters.  I would also be shocked if Michael Flynn wasn’t under close international  surveillance since 2013.

Schindler doesn’t give any details of what exactly is on SIGINT or the parties involved so he’s got nothing of substance that can be confirmed or denied.  It’s awfully convenient.

Ok, considering that's not an example of it being reported by another source, seems like you're knocking Schindler down a peg without a solid reason. 

Schindler had a career at NSA both as a civilian analyst and as a military officer, and was technical director of NSA’s biggest operational division.  He's got connections and behind the scenes experience wrt how these things go.  Just like reporters don't publish everything they know, it's a fair assumption Schindler isn't broadcasting everything he knows, understandably, so he's not really being all that opportunistic.  He loathes Hillary and is plainly critical of Obama's mishandling of Putin's boundary pushing, but he hates traitors in the WH more.

Again, this has always been a signals intelligence based counterintelligence investigation from its inception.  All those lies Trump, his brood, and his toadies have been telling about Russian involvement (and more), all those "I don't recall" responses, will blow up in their faces when the acid-fast records of their crimes are produced.  Hence the massive disinformation "Spygate" campaign and his blistering assault on people doing their jobs in accordance with the rule of law.  This ain't no fucking perjury trap.

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by triplehorn

[TwiceHorn 31,184]

1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

I mean, even when the whole country hated them, even Nixon could find love in Yorba Linda and Carter in Plains.

I know NYC is completely different animal from all other cities and towns but they still usually love a hometown boy who's done good.

Oh, and word on the Twitter streets is that Melania has GTFO and moved back to NYC.

I hope the paps are camped outside Trump Tower to get confirmation.

Eh, NYC has always disregarded Trump.  That's why he's Trump.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

 

[EuroHorn 3,204]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Yea, that article is from Jan 2018. Where’s the confirmation?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Lol like you give a fuck

[EuroHorn 3,204]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Lol like you give a fuck

You’re worse than the Russians 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

#BeBest

[burntorangebongos 10,681]

Wow. We are getting raped in the ass with this fucking family just on their normal living situation alone. I get that it is expensive to protect people properly and the WH isn't a feasible place to stay on the weekends since you have to pay for all family meals. But that is why camp David was created. These fucks won't stay there and are costing out the ass. And now, they are going to be separated? If this is true, we are being fucked hard on this alone.

[Anastasis 23,375]

Twatters bleeding edge on the downfall of our society. 

[Anastasis 23,375]

31 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

You’re worse than the Russians 

#HugoActiveMeasures

[Anastasis 23,375]

5 hours ago, XYZ said:

The republic was already heading toward a cliff, Trump or no Trump. There are no statesmen, only corrupt politicians trying to steal as much as possible for themselves and their friends.

No, no, no. See, according to the status quo bozos the only thing that will get us out of this mess is more of the same that got us into this mess. 

[triplehorn 2,664]

Netanyahu getting indicted and tried for public corruption could be a watershed moment for others with similar proclivities and political standing.  

[Brisketexan 104,463]

No, no, no. See, according to the status quo bozos the only thing that will get us out of this mess is more of the same that got us into this mess. 

You do fucking realize that there are choices other than “100% status quo” and “shoot our own dick clean off,” right?

[Anastasis 23,375]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

You do fucking realize that there are choices other than “100% status quo” and “shoot our own dick clean off,” right?

Doesn't really seem like it these days. We appear to live in a pretty dichotomous world at the moment. 

[Brisketexan 104,463]

Doesn't really seem like it these days. We appear to live in a pretty dichotomous world at the moment. 

In part because assholes like you do the “both sides” bullshit.

Advocate and work for something other than those two choices.

[Anastasis 23,375]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

In part because assholes like you do the “both sides” bullshit.

Advocate and work for something other than those two choices.

Assholes like me bringing down the Republic! I advocate for the things in my community that actually make a difference. Faith, community and connectivity. And the oxford comma.

[Gil Bang 25,865]

I mean, even when the whole country hated them, even Nixon could find love in Yorba Linda and Carter in Plains.
I know NYC is completely different animal from all other cities and towns but they still usually love a hometown boy who's done good.
Oh, and word on the Twitter streets is that Melania has GTFO and moved back to NYC.
I hope the paps are camped outside Trump Tower to get confirmation.

Nope. Nixon was born in Yorba Linda but kept a home in San Clemente. Cali told him to get lost so he moved to NYC.

[XYZ 2,154]

5 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We got this... It might take 20 years and it’s going to get ugly before it gets better so prepare yourself...Winter is Coming.

“We got this”? You got what? How exactly are you gonna put a stop to politicians selling themselves to the highest bidder? In a previous post you said “we elected these people”. So what does that mean? It means that we are stupid, and you can’t fix stupid.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Elect people that are in politics for the right reasons. Get more involved at the local level.  You know, drain the swamp.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

10 hours ago, triplehorn said:

Ok, considering that's not an example of it being reported by another source, seems like you're knocking Schindler down a peg without a solid reason. 

Schindler had a career at NSA both as a civilian analyst and as a military officer, and was technical director of NSA’s biggest operational division.  He's got connections and behind the scenes experience wrt how these things go.  Just like reporters don't publish everything they know, it's a fair assumption Schindler isn't broadcasting everything he knows, understandably, so he's not really being all that opportunistic.  He loathes Hillary and is plainly critical of Obama's mishandling of Putin's boundary pushing, but he hates traitors in the WH more.

Again, this has always been a signals intelligence based counterintelligence investigation from its inception.  All those lies Trump, his brood, and his toadies have been telling about Russian involvement (and more), all those "I don't recall" responses, will blow up in their faces when the acid-fast records of their crimes are produced.  Hence the massive disinformation "Spygate" campaign and his blistering assault on people doing their jobs in accordance with the rule of law.  This ain't no fucking perjury trap.

 

 

I don’t doubt Schindler’s credentials I was just pointing out that he doesn’t bring any new information to the table, you know, NEWS. 

John Sipher makes the same observation I do in his tweet..Schindler is just reminding people how the international IC works.

Moreover, I think it’s important to note counterintelligence investigations RARELY result in counterintelligence prosecutions because of the need to protect sources/methods, national security, and other secrets that could get exposed in the discovery process.

So, even if Trump and his associates are guilty as fuck of things like espionage/treason, they will not likely get formally charged if there’s plenty of other crimes like fraud, money laundering, and conspiracy to obstruct justice that are easily provable via documents and witness testimony in a court of law.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Bozo_Casanova 26,232]

11 hours ago, Anastasis said:

No, no, no. See, according to the status quo bozos the only thing that will get us out of this mess is more of the same that got us into this mess. 

So you want to burn down the village to save it, rather than root out the bad actors who run the village poorly? Fascinating. 

[triplehorn 2,664]

Quote

I don’t doubt Schindler’s credentials I was just pointing out that he doesn’t bring any new information to the table, you know, NEWS. 

John Sipher makes the same observation I do in his tweet..Schindler is just reminding people how the international IC works.

Moreover, I think it’s important to note counterintelligence investigations RARELY result in counterintelligence prosecutions because of the need to protect sources/methods, national security, and other secrets that could get exposed in the discovery process.

So, even if Trump and his associates are guilty as fuck of things like espionage/treason, they will not likely get formally charged if there’s plenty of other crimes like fraud, money laundering, and conspiracy to obstruct justice that are easily provable via documents and witness testimony in a court of law.

No, Schindler does in fact offer 'news'.  Perhaps it's so big you didn't see it:

"In response to urgent FBI requests for more information, NSA rose to the occasion, and by the time that Donald Trump officially accepted the Republican nomination in mid-July 2016, “We knew we had a Russian agent on our hands,” as a senior NSA official put it to me recently."

Schindler offers a lot more than a primer on how counterintelligence investigations work, he's saying the signals intelligence gathered --- proof positive --- is enough to define Trump as acting in the capacity of an agent of Putin.  That's not speculation or wishful thinking, and I have no reason whatsoever to believe he's making it up.  He worked for NSA both as a civilian analyst and as a military officer, and was technical director of NSA’s biggest operational division.  He's done this before.  He personally knows IC people in high places.  In any other administration, no one would even be looking at what he writes because no other administration has involved a traitor and fraud as POTUS.

wrt the latter part of your post, sure, there is an ongoing balance between cost/benefit in IC information being used for public purposes such as prosecution versus withholding it to protect sources and methods in ongoing intelligence gathering.  In order for there to be sufficient evidence for Congress to properly act to impeach and remove Trump, I suspect a chunk of that highly protected intelligence will need to be 'sacrificed' to help everyone see and understand  the depth of Trump's deception and criminality.  What Schindler is reporting is that the IC has it in spades for Trump Co.

[Pods 7,522]

We get it triplehorn, you like Schindler. I read his feed for a month or so, because it was hard to get a read on him. I stopped, because I find him off-putting and I don't entirely trust him.

He has the background, but other National Security twitter types don't seem to think highly of him. I don't think he gets much inside information, because of that. 

Schindler has also chosen to monetize this by starting a premium, subscription only service. That's entirely his choice, but once his business model effectively became the same as the $9.95 recruiting services, he's got a vested interest in further drama and "inside scoops" and I'm going to ignore most of what he says. 

 

[triplehorn 2,664]

Pods - It's not about "liking" Schindler.  I don't "like" him.  He's either credible or he's not.  He's either reporting accurately about the mountain of SIGINT on TrumpCo that goes back years, or he's full of it.  When you say "other National Security twitter types don't seem to think highly of him", can you provide an example ?  As I said, I'm open to considering critics of Schindler, you just haven't produced any.

Revisiting another example of the years of SIGINT accumulated including a massive spy feat where sources and methods partly were burned in the service of public awareness: in 2014 the Netherlands' AIVD intelligence agency penetrated the inner workings of Cozy Bear, run by Russia's SVR, and proved that they hacked the US 2016, and a lot more.  By 2014, Trump had already communicated his intent to Putin to run in 2016 and the foundations of the Russian operations to achieve that were already in motion.

[jimmyjazz 45,513]

6 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

When you say "other National Security twitter types don't seem to think highly of him", can you provide an example ? 

This.  The things Schindler has said are bombshells -- if there is good reason to doubt him, I'd like to know.

[Goredho 17,301]

Its been a little confusing to see the statements coming out of Trump, Giulliani, etc... recently.  To see a winning strategy in it legally.  I read something somewhere that made a decent case that team Trump is basically ceding both the ethics and legality of his actions that are being examined.  That the strategy is simply political armageddon and subtle intra-party coercion.  Get ugly stuff like paying Stormy out into the open early so its effects are numbed over time.  Then whip up the base into a frenzy over WITCHUNT and SPYGATE so that any Republicans voting to impeach Trump wind up committing political suicide with the GOP base come the next primary.  Trump is then simply making the (pretty safe) bet that when push comes to shove the justice department won't indict a sitting president and that GOP congress-critters will vote in their own political self-interest during any impeachment proceedings.  That that's why you are seeing an attempt by team Trump to accelerate the investigation and bring the moment for congressional action to a head before the mid-terms.  Not simply because Trump's party is in control of both the House and Senate, but because Trump has leverage over the GOP with his core supporters.  And that this is a contributing factor to the exodus of GOP members of congress.  They see themselves being positioned into that corner and are opting out before getting trapped there.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Goredho

[Pods 7,522]

30 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Pods - It's not about "liking" Schindler.  I don't "like" him.  He's either credible or he's not.  He's either reporting accurately about the mountain of SIGINT on TrumpCo that goes back years, or he's full of it.  When you say "other National Security twitter types don't seem to think highly of him", can you provide an example ?  As I said, I'm open to considering critics of Schindler, you just haven't produced any.

Revisiting another example of the years of SIGINT accumulated including a massive spy feat where sources and methods partly were burned in the service of public awareness: in 2014 the Netherlands' AIVD intelligence agency penetrated the inner workings of Cozy Bear, run by Russia's SVR, and proved that they hacked the US 2016, and a lot more.  By 2014, Trump had already communicated his intent to Putin to run in 2016 and the foundations of the Russian operations to achieve that were already in motion.

I don't have anything specific that I can pull up, but the other comments I've seen made about him haven't been complimentary. His biggest Twitter proponent seems to be Louis Mensch and I put him in her same camp. Occasionally right and occasionally has insight, but hyperbolic and unreliable for anything specific.

He is a $9.95 recruiting analyst and speaks in general terms. He's never actually broken anything to my knowledge with details that weren't already in the public sphere.   

Also, I'm not disputing that foreign intel has Trump associates on tape, that's not a bombshell in the slightest. As you've pointed out, it's already been covered poorly by the media. This fits the previous pattern I've seen about him. I don't think Schindler really has many sources, I think he's rehashing what's already out there and speculating on the rest. 

 

[Pods 7,522]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

This.  The things Schindler has said are bombshells -- if there is good reason to doubt him, I'd like to know.

I don't begrudge the guy for trying to make money off his experience and work, but the $9.95 private twitter feed thing is inviting disaster. As soon as this becomes the business model, hyperbole will creep in.

Schindler also writes for the Observer, which is owned by the Kush. That gives Schindler a potential financial incentive to muddy the waters with disinformation. I'm not saying he is, but it's something that has to be considered when reading his stuff. For the record, Schindler says he's free to write about whatever he wants with zero editorial control exerted by his bosses. I'm not sure I find that credible either. 

I'm interested in what he says, but I keep those things in mind and take what he says with a grain of salt. 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Pods
Kush placed the Observer into a trust and his BIL is now the publisher

[triplehorn 2,664]

Pods - I think you're way off base about Schindler.  He's appeared as a panelist for a good while with The McLaughlin Group and CNN.  He's a recognized expert on NSA and other intelligence functions based on his career work.  He started that pay service very recently in part because of the relentless bot onslaught that was seriously mucking up his place.  How many bots and saboteurs are going to register for electronic payments ?  I don't subscribe to his place, but evidently he has a large enough readership that it's chugging along undisturbed for people who choose to have it that way.  I'd also suggest that people who do pay for his stuff aren't drawn to hyperbole.  A lot of people actually have functional BS meters.  

[Pods 7,522]

10 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Pods - I think you're way off base about Schindler.  He's appeared as a panelist for a good while with The McLaughlin Group and CNN.  He's a recognized expert on NSA and other intelligence functions based on his career work.  He started that pay service very recently in part because of the relentless bot onslaught that was seriously mucking up his place.  How many bots and saboteurs are going to register for electronic payments ?  I don't subscribe to his place, but evidently he has a large enough readership that it's chugging along undisturbed for people who choose to have it that way.  I'd also suggest that people who do pay for his stuff aren't drawn to hyperbole.  A lot of people actually have functional BS meters.  

I was reading his Twitter at the time he started the new feed. It had trolls, but no more than any other.

He could also have chosen a nominal fee rather than $10/month. If the goal is to stop bots and saboteurs, that stops most of them, because as you said, they wouldn't sign up for it. The goal is clearly to make money. I don't begrudge him that, I just consider his motivation and I consider what I know about how the $9.95/month model works. 

I could be wrong, but the things I brought up are also legit concerns. This is how I feel about Schindler. 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Pods

[triplehorn 2,664]

In case you missed it, Manafort has two trial dates set: the DC trial starts Sept 17 for money laundering and failing to register as a foreign agent.  The Virginia tax and bank fraud case has been bumped out 2 weeks by Judge Ellis from June 10th to June 24th.  

The Sept 17th trial is conspicuous for falling squarely in the height of the midterm campaign season.  But first up, the June Manafort trial is set to dominate the news waves.  Recall that Trump's NK Singapore Summit was pinned to start June 12th, which would have significantly overlapped with the original June 10th Manafort trial date.  Could be coincidence or purposeful, but the latter might be confirmed if something big is conjured up from the WH to squat on that week of June 24th. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

Talk about media I can't get my head around -- Greenwald and The Intercept. The come across as 110 percent anti-Trump and 120-percent pro-Putin. On one of their recent podcasts, they were jubilant that other nations were getting drawn into the collusion / pay-for-play megascandal. I think it was Scahill saying things like "See? It's not a Russian thing!!!!"

I just don't get how otherwise intelligent journalists can hold this contradictory position and hope to cling to a shred of credibility. So Putin is somehow nobler and less corrupt than the heads of state of all those other nations? Yeah, right, Glenn.   

[GW Hayduke 1,950]

If anyone gets tired of the Schindler argument, there was a good argument over in mass shootings

Edited May 29, 2018 by GW Hayduke

[R2D2 91]

Come on FBI, you go get him. And bring his fat ass down.

[XYZ 2,154]

5 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

So you want to burn down the village to save it, rather than root out the bad actors who run the village poorly? Fascinating. 

First of all, shame on you for using the strawman’s fallacy. Second, how do you root out the bad actors when the whole system is rotten to the core? There are no statesmen in government. Nobody runs for office so that they can “run the village”. They run for office so that they can get to positions of power where they can extract the maximum amount of wealth for themselves and the people who help them get there.

[Tuco 5,076]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Talk about media I can't get my head around -- Greenwald and The Intercept. The come across as 110 percent anti-Trump and 120-percent pro-Putin. On one of their recent podcasts, they were jubilant that other nations were getting drawn into the collusion / pay-for-play megascandal. I think it was Scahill saying things like "See? It's not a Russian thing!!!!"

I just don't get how otherwise intelligent journalists can hold this contradictory position and hope to cling to a shred of credibility. So Putin is somehow nobler and less corrupt than the heads of state of all those other nations? Yeah, right, Glenn.   

There is a concern amongst some of the radical left that the anti-Russia sentiment can be used (is being used) to justify military build up and eventually bloody confrontation. I get it. Certainly when you look at things from the perspective of "what helps rationalize the military-industrial complex?", exaggerating a conflict with Russia is right up there with hyping Islamic extremism and Chinese aggression for Taiwan.  As a liberal, I can look at Islamic extremism/conservative Islam and concurrently state that 1) it really sucks, particularly for many of the human rights issues I am concerned about such as gay rights, women rights, humane criminal justice system, and 2) the severity of the abuses, and the threat to the US, have been exaggerated. I think some of that exaggeration is to drive justification for perpetual war, which certainly helps defense contractors. (Much of it is for other reasons.)

At the end of the day, I don't really have a big issue with Russia over this. Their human rights violations and aggression towards their neighbors certainly ranks as larger concerns, and we didn't shit about that either.  I have a problem with Americans who aided and abetted the Russians, or who refuse to acknowledge the potential influence they and other countries can have on our system unless we figure out ways to counter it. This is essentially a domestic law enforcement issue for me.  Secondly, there is an issue with how we should approach cyber-aggression as a leader in the international community, which may include limiting our own actions.   

[Bozo_Casanova 26,232]

18 minutes ago, XYZ said:

First of all, shame on you for using the strawman’s fallacy*. Second, how do you root out the bad actors when the whole system is rotten to the core?** There are no statesmen in government***. Nobody runs for office so that they can “run the village”****. They run for office so that they can get to positions of power where they can extract the maximum amount of wealth for themselves and the people who help them get there*****.

* That's not what a strawman is. 

** The "system" isn't rotten. The last 75 years have been the most peaceful and abundant years in human history. It takes constant work and attention and there are real problems to address, but the "system" did all that. 

*** False and ridiculous. 

***** False. And if you don't know better it's because you don't put forward the effort to meet anybody running that you can support. 

***** False,  most people who run  for office do it because they want to make things better for others. 

 

Your post is stupid and cynical, which is kind of like skepticism, except for people too lazy to learn about how the world actually works or too fearful to leave their parents basement. 

 

Which are you?

Edited May 29, 2018 by Bozo_Casanova