Share Your Music (it probably sucks but that’s not why we do it)

[jimmyjazz 45879]

13 hours ago, G650 said:

We could get all fucked up like the Foo Fighters and do 7/4 such as Times Like These, one measure 4/4, one measure 3/4.

Eh, that's just the intro and its repeated parts.  I'm pretty sure it's just a tip of the cap to Rush.  I think all the vocal parts are 4/4.

EDIT:  although now that I listen, the choruses are essentially 12/4 -- 3 bars of 4/4, which is unusual.

Edited August 29, 2023 by jimmyjazz

[ohchaucer 1443]

I tried that…didn’t go so well. ohchaucer already scolded me for it.
 
 

Come on now, shoot for the moon! I believe in you, Sidis, baby!! (But, also take it slow)

[sidis 9822]

7 minutes ago, ohchaucer said:

Come on now, shoot for the moon! I believe in you, Sidis, baby!! (But, also take it slow)

Won’t be able to do anything musical for the rest of the week but I did slide in some paradiddles, seven strokes, and Swiss army triplets for about 20 mins tonight. No Morello or Art Blakey.

[ohchaucer 1443]

Also if we want a fun time signature prompt, this one is a great start. If you go to the 3:00 mark, it’s a crazy example of something that sounds very polyrhythmic but really it’s just 7/8 pattern with the melody lagging to almost feel 3/4 and 2/3. But it’s not! It’s straight 7/8 through to the outro.

And PS affinity for his music or not or his personality or not, Sting was a fucking songwriting monster. Copeland would have done well to keep his wagon hitched. But I digress.

[ohchaucer 1443]

Also for drummers counting, the best clue to how he’s playing it is lock into the ride cymbal and double time it.

[jimmyjazz 45879]

Not for no good reason:

[ohchaucer 1443]

Not for no good reason:

Best part of that picture is the “RUDE” cymbals. If there was ever a band I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall of….

[G650 14229]

8 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Eh, that's just the intro and its repeated parts.  I'm pretty sure it's just a tip of the cap to Rush.  I think all the vocal parts are 4/4.

EDIT:  although now that I listen, the choruses are essentially 12/4 -- 3 bars of 4/4, which is unusual.

Oh it's no hat tip, it's just the Foos have the weirdest sense of timing ever.

[Buzzrock 14902]

I spent a few minutes with ChatGPT and got this for a song prompt

[G650 14229]

Dude that's epic

[Buzzrock 14902]

It's wild. At first I wasn't getting what I wanted, but as I nudged it along it pretty quickly got to those two ideas. And it only took about five minutes total.

[Celery Man 20929]

13 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

I spent a few minutes with ChatGPT and got this for a song prompt

There was a hachiko movie with Richard Gere. You could do a take about a gerbil patiently waiting to be retrieved.

[G650 14229]

[Goredho 17394]

People in the songwriting group:  If you all are so inclined, I'd love to hear what you are coming up with.  I think you all signed an NDA or something, but if you personally wouldn't mind sharing your stuff here, it'd be cool to check out!

[Celery Man 20929]

I'm moderately comfortable doing that. This was recorded by writing down the final arrangement on a sheet of paper and then singing/playing into an iPad running garageband in the attic (except a second take on the bridge vocals to fix a vocal melody which was in my office and may have been airpods), one take guitar one take vocal and then a second vocal take to change the bridge part. Anyways what I'm trying to say is that the singing has some pitchiness, I'd probably still change the melody a bit, and there are some little parts that I'd do differently (fuckin "yand I'm falling behind" sounds like a Less Than Jake vocal).

The exercise and feedback is actually really fun and helpful, I haven't written anything in like 10 years. The bridge was the first part and was supposed to be the chorus. I hated it but have come around on it a bit, I think I need a third final verse and some trailing vocals into the guitar riff part for each (or maybe not each) section, and then the kinda "high verse/trailing vocal" part would serve as the chorus throughout the song. Feedback I got from the group was helpful in coming to that idea.

The idea of the song is thinking about Mathias Rust as a kid stepping into adulthood and his version of... being somebody or doing something meaningful as an adult is to fly a cessna into Red Square. That's juxtaposed with verse 1 about me graduating from college and being paralyzed on the couch all day looking at job ads and playing fallout 3, having a mini-crisis as I realize I don't have a plan and may have fucked up.

 

 

haven't started the second thing at all yet and I jammed the middle finger of my fretting hand installing a fucking piece of shit car seat. It's all purple and swollen but feels better than it did yesterday so I'll run out of excuses soon.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Celery Man

[G650 14229]

47 minutes ago, Goredho said:

People in the songwriting group:  If you all are so inclined, I'd love to hear what you are coming up with.  I think you all signed an NDA or something, but if you personally wouldn't mind sharing your stuff here, it'd be cool to check out!

 

I'm currently working with my drummer to lay down an actual part on the song to replace the EZDrummer stand in, but I definitely plan on uploading to the wider world once it gets to a more finished state.

 

To echo @Celery Man a bit, I found it a super helpful exercise, and I'm actually pretty excited to be a part. I've spent a lot of the past year feeling like a calcified old dinosaur and been frustrated in my attempts to break out of past habits, and the interaction with the group has definitely freed up that logjam in my mind.

 

 

[ohchaucer 1443]

I'll echo Celery and 650.  It's been a fun exercise so far.  Songwriting, alone at least, has never been something I've spent time with and it's always been a frustration.  This challenge and the group and the feedback has nudged me to say "fuck it" and just make SOMETHING. 

My entry for last month is about how everyone assumed Rust's stunt was some big statement to save the world... but, nah, he just did the whole thing for a girl.

In hindsight (and planning ahead for this month's song) I'll probably just stick to guitar and vocals without fooling around (poorly) with GarageBand too much. As I've caveated to the group, my musical experience has overwhelmingly been behind a drumkit, so this is giving me the opportunity to stretch and learn.  Better late than never!

[Goredho 17394]

1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

I'm moderately comfortable doing that. This was recorded by writing down the final arrangement on a sheet of paper and then singing/playing into an iPad running garageband in the attic (except a second take on the bridge vocals to fix a vocal melody which was in my office and may have been airpods), one take guitar one take vocal and then a second vocal take to change the bridge part. Anyways what I'm trying to say is that the singing has some pitchiness, I'd probably still change the melody a bit, and there are some little parts that I'd do differently (fuckin "yand I'm falling behind" sounds like a Less Than Jake vocal).

The exercise and feedback is actually really fun and helpful, I haven't written anything in like 10 years. The bridge was the first part and was supposed to be the chorus. I hated it but have come around on it a bit, I think I need a third final verse and some trailing vocals into the guitar riff part for each (or maybe not each) section, and then the kinda "high verse/trailing vocal" part would serve as the chorus throughout the song. Feedback I got from the group was helpful in coming to that idea.

The idea of the song is thinking about Mathias Rust as a kid stepping into adulthood and his version of... being somebody or doing something meaningful as an adult is to fly a cessna into Red Square. That's juxtaposed with verse 1 about me graduating from college and being paralyzed on the couch all day looking at job ads and playing fallout 3, having a mini-crisis as I realize I don't have a plan and may have fucked up.

 

 

haven't started the second thing at all yet and I jammed the middle finger of my fretting hand installing a fucking piece of shit car seat. It's all purple and swollen but feels better than it did yesterday so I'll run out of excuses soon.

I really dig this, and that's some great guitar playing!  For basically a single take, that's super good.  I get what you are saying about "pitchiness", but your vocal performance has a Kurt Vile vibe  and I don't think you want it to be too refined.  I love the raw performance and simple production.  Don't make it too slick!

18 minutes ago, ohchaucer said:

I'll echo Celery and 650.  It's been a fun exercise so far.  Songwriting, alone at least, has never been something I've spent time with and it's always been a frustration.  This challenge and the group and the feedback has nudged me to say "fuck it" and just make SOMETHING. 

My entry for last month is about how everyone assumed Rust's stunt was some big statement to save the world... but, nah, he just did the whole thing for a girl.

In hindsight (and planning ahead for this month's song) I'll probably just stick to guitar and vocals without fooling around (poorly) with GarageBand too much. As I've caveated to the group, my musical experience has overwhelmingly been behind a drumkit, so this is giving me the opportunity to stretch and learn.  Better late than never!

This is very cool.  I like like your lyrics and your take on Rust's perspective. The instrumentation is cool, and I really like the sequenced pads providing some rhythm throughout.  Great job!

[Celery Man 20929]

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

I really dig this, and that's some great guitar playing!  For basically a single take, that's super good.  I get what you are saying about "pitchiness", but your vocal performance has a Kurt Vile vibe  and I don't think you want it to be too refined.  I love the raw performance and simple production.  Don't make it too slick!

oh that's cool - I was actually trying to put myself into a Mountain Goats headspace a bit with the vocals, but largely because my instincts are different and i'm not going to in a million years sound like John Darnielle. I still only have about one foot into Kurt Vile's discography but I like that comparison or at least being accused of having some of his vibe. Appreciate the feedback.

[dcbc 14465]

This isn't my music.  But a buddy and I had a few drinks one night and recorded ourselves playing an old Soulhat tune back in 2001.  The live bit wasn't terrible, and I tracked it.  My friend is on the drums and I played guitar and sang on the live cut, and tracked everything else.  Be gentle.

Link

Edited September 18, 2023 by dcbc

[jimmyjazz 45879]

Man, that's great.  I don't know the song, I really liked Soulhat but somehow just never found myself at many of their shows.  Good job!

[Goredho 17394]

Cool, funky jam, @dcbc.

[Goredho 17394]

I've been absent from this thread as I've kind of put composing/recording aside as I've gotten more involved playing live again this year.  I've concentrated on two things

1. Being able to recognize chords and key to quickly contribute and sit in with some established gigging bands in the area; I've had 4-5 gigs like that this summer
2. A looper-powered one man band performance where I can play faux drums, bass, acoustic and rhythm guitar to lay backing tracks live, then provide an instrumental improvisation over it

This video is an example of #2 from an art show gig I did a month or so ago.

One of the things I'm experimenting with in the one man band setting are some covers, where I play a fair amount of the vocal melody with guitar.  This is from a practice session, but you'll get the idea...

 

The live music scene here is very seasonal, Memorial Day through Halloween.  I'll likely spend the offseason working on composing and recording, and in season playing live either in open jams, sitting in with some of the bands I've gotten connected to, or doing one-man jam band things like the above in settings where it makes sense.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Goredho

[sidis 9822]

for songwriter group, we did a robert johnson prompt with the option of doing 5/4 time per my request.

never again on 5/4. what a pain in the ass.  but i am doing two tracks on this one.  

the first one is my robert johnson track...i went with r&b this month.  the final version will have some soulful "rapping" on top of it but not comfortable sharing that here so here is the version without the lyrics.  careful with the subwoofers on this one.

 

i did write a 5/4 track.  i'm obviously not happy with it but i did it.  it is more of a rock song...u2 style and will also have some lyrics on the final version but here is the instrumentation.  even though it wasn't my intention, when i step back from it, it kind of reminds me of "exit" from joshua tree if exit hit you over the head with bass and sucked. 

 

[Paul Wesley 3278]

 

[G650 14229]

Kickass stuff Paul

[jimmyjazz 45879]

David & David!  Nice cover, Paul!

I'm a massive David Baerwald fan.   You did it justice.  Those strings are awesome.

[Paul Wesley 3278]

Thanks, guys.  I am a huge Baerwald fan as well.  

That song started out as acoustic guitar backed by a string quartet.  But it wasn't sounding as cool as I had hoped, so we ended up bringing the strings back to add a bunch more layers mic'ed at a distance (sound of an intimate string quartet becomes sound of a huge orchestra), and instead of rock drum kit we used all orchestral percussion, including a massive bass drum and hand-held cymbals.  Also tracked some flutes and oboes.  

The string score (which I didn't write) is still doing 99% of the heavy lifting in the arrangement.

It was fun to work on.  I have always loved the song.  

[Goredho 17394]

17 hours ago, Paul Wesley said:

 

That's really cool, well done!  Love the instrumentation/production choices and the vocal melodies.

[Celery Man 20929]

every time, I sit down and play guitar/shout at my macbook and think "i don't give a shit about production i'm just going to capture the song". And then I hear some shit like sidis and Paul do and get mad jelly.

"Me and the Devil" just shook loose a memory of "Standing Outside a Broken Phone Booth", which is a song I have not thought of in years. The sidis track of course is way different, but the old blues singer clip with record static over a beat brought that back up for me.

I'm a little hesitant to share because i dislike the vocals now more than I did after first recording them (except for one part where I clip it a bit in the second chorus). First chorus specifically I don't love how it sounds - I think I need to capo it up to bring it more in range and watch how I squeeze the word "weird" out. Also that last bridge part, that was the first time I ever sang it and it was higher than I anticipated. Also I want to change the first stanza of the second verse, which sounds a bit high school poetry to me on reflection.

In addition to the Robert Johnson/alternate time prompt, we had a "word ladder" prompt this time. I couldn't get anything going with Robert Johnson, but I did break my finger installing a carseat and that lined up with some of the word combinations (thresh chair, radio bloom) in a way that got something going for me. Actually the first thing I wrote down was a while ago - "My old friends' dogs are dying, they've all got kids or are getting weird". I keep seeing facebook posts from old friends of dogs that i knew as puppies who are now dead (and my dog Kevin died last year). All of these old friends are either just posting kid stuff these days or... living in an airstream trailer and going to burning man and shit like that. I think this is a phase of life that social media has made more apparent. Verses are about dealing with that kinda stuff, choruses are about hearing the baby monitor go off.
 

 

[G650 14229]

I know I've said it in the email thread, but I am continually impressed by all of you guys talent. A lot of the time the raw stuff emphasizes it even more.

[sidis 9822]

1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

every time, I sit down and play guitar/shout at my macbook and think "i don't give a shit about production i'm just going to capture the song". And then I hear some shit like sidis and Paul do and get mad jelly.

"Me and the Devil" just shook loose a memory of "Standing Outside a Broken Phone Booth", which is a song I have not thought of in years. The sidis track of course is way different, but the old blues singer clip with record static over a beat brought that back up for me.

 

pointless for the rest of us to compare production quality to paul...dude literally owns a fucking professional studio.  and i think there's probably some good reasons why jimmyjazz's recordings all sound super good.

that said, there are a lot of really small and inexpensive things you can do to ratchet up your production if you want to on any tracks.  happy to throw a few ideas your way if you are interested.  but the soul of it is in what you are doing...just capturing good song ideas and good lyrics.  i remain of the opinion that once this experiment is over in January, i would love to see you finish Leaving Home to Rust and make a version that dials up some of the production because i really like what you have captured and i think it could be an excellent, excellent song (not that your new one isn't also quite good).  happy to help you with any of the production side stuff i can as well.

on me and the devil, in case it isn't obvious, one of the things i am trying to do with this experiment is do a different style on each prompt.  first was soundtrack score.  i spent the day listening to robert johnson one day just to see if anything was inspired and i kept coming back to little snippets that sounded like they would make for cool samples to repeat in an edm track ala some of moby's more popular work like "natural blues."  but the more i listened, r&b and funk seemed to jive with the tempo a bit better and some rap lyrics fit.

[Goredho 17394]

1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

I'm a little hesitant to share because i dislike the vocals now more than I did after first recording them (except for one part where I clip it a bit in the second chorus). 

 

Don't hide your tunes under a bushel, dude.  That's a damn good song.  Vocals as an instrument are hard.  Like, being able to do what Jon Anderson did with Yes, or what Amy Winehouse did with her voice, not everyone can do that.  I seriously doubt any one here could use their voice as an instrument anywhere close to that.  But neither could Bob Dylan, Tom Petty or Kurt Vile, and those guys are fantastic singer/songwriters who have made a hell of an impact with their music.  Just singing their truth with the voice they were born with.

Keep singing your truth, man.  Its good stuff.

[jimmyjazz 45879]

@Celery Man, I vacillate between hating my voice (90% of the time), my songwriting (20% of the time) or both (probably 95% of the time).  Don't check my math.

That's a good song, and you convey the melody and lyrics just fine.  It's really hard to not beat one's self up, but seriously, you're WAY beyond the point of beating yourself up.  You're good.  The whole group is good.  

[G650 14229]

13 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Keep singing your truth, man.  Its good stuff.

Amen.

[Goredho 17394]

36 minutes ago, sidis said:

pointless for the rest of us to compare production quality to paul...dude literally owns a fucking professional studio.  and i think there's probably some good reasons why jimmyjazz's recordings all sound super good.

that said, there are a lot of really small and inexpensive things you can do to ratchet up your production if you want to on any tracks.  happy to throw a few ideas your way if you are interested.  but the soul of it is in what you are doing...just capturing good song ideas and good lyrics.  i remain of the opinion that once this experiment is over in January, i would love to see you finish Leaving Home to Rust and make a version that dials up some of the production because i really like what you have captured and i think it could be an excellent, excellent song (not that your new one isn't also quite good).  happy to help you with any of the production side stuff i can as well.

on me and the devil, in case it isn't obvious, one of the things i am trying to do with this experiment is do a different style on each prompt.  first was soundtrack score.  i spent the day listening to robert johnson one day just to see if anything was inspired and i kept coming back to little snippets that sounded like they would make for cool samples to repeat in an edm track ala some of moby's more popular work like "natural blues."  but the more i listened, r&b and funk seemed to jive with the tempo a bit better and some rap lyrics fit.

I wanted to quote this and state that @sidis is about as good as I could imagine someone being at producing pro-quality tracks from a relatively modest home studio.  He's got a lot of skill/knowledge, is generous with his time, and has a real interest in helping others make their music better.  All our collaborations have been incredibly positive experiences, and I'm always learning something from him.  I owe him like tree-fiddy beers for all he's done to help extend my skills at production, mixing, mastering, etc... 

Take him up on his offer, @Celery Man.

[sidis 9822]

 

[Goredho 17394]

5 minutes ago, sidis said:

 

[G650 14229]

One thing I'd add is some of the most impactful music in history was recorded in seriously lo fi and compromised situations. Something that I've long believed, and I even heard Tom Bukovac actually say recently, is that if you have something to say, that's what really matters. He was referring to guitar skill but it applies to this just as much. Production is not a barrier to getting something important across. And you, along with the other guys, absolutely have something to a say.

 

Unless you are trying to make a Taylor Swift song, then I have bad news.

 

 

[Celery Man 20929]

Thanks y’all - I may indeed take sidis up on that. Both those songs need another part and some marinating/finishing, but I do intend to go back and do that on both of them.

[ohchaucer 1443]

Thanks y’all - I may indeed take sidis up on that. Both those songs need another part and some marinating/finishing, but I do intend to go back and do that on both of them.

Ditto. I’ve got $9.95 for Sidis for any tips and tricks!

[ohchaucer 1443]

One quick question as a follow up: are any of you guys using an online/ai mastering tool (eMaster, Landr, Bandlab, etc)?  I have SoundCloud Next Pro, but not thrilled so far and their online purchase process is unreliable. 
 

I’m finishing up a new track that I did for the workshop I’m doing - in conjunction with the monthly “email” group, I promised myself I wouldn’t use those tracks for class and vice versa. So I have a new one in the chamber that I’ll share shortly. 

[G650 14229]

From what I've seen/heard, most of the online mastering things are just loudness boosts with brickwall limiting and such. They swear it's not, but I don't believe them. I personally hate the loudness trend since the late 90s, so I steer clear.

 

Shelly Yakus has a company called AfterMaster, which supposedly does personalized mastering along with AI, may be worth checking out if you are so inclined.

[Goredho 17394]

26 minutes ago, ohchaucer said:

One quick question as a follow up: are any of you guys using an online/ai mastering tool (eMaster, Landr, Bandlab, etc)?  I have SoundCloud Next Pro, but not thrilled so far and their online purchase process is unreliable. 
 

I’m finishing up a new track that I did for the workshop I’m doing - in conjunction with the monthly “email” group, I promised myself I wouldn’t use those tracks for class and vice versa. So I have a new one in the chamber that I’ll share shortly. 

I haven’t.  One thing Sidis hipped me onto is Izotope Ozone.  It’s a paid mastering plugin for your DAW that provides a lot of mastering tools like compressors, adaptive limiters, spectral imagers, etc…. What differentiates it is that it has a “master assistant” feature that uses AI to help you get in the ballpark with a master, then you can kind of tweak by ear or meters from there.

The AI assistant can be used in two ways.  Pick some parameters like intensity and vintage/modern and click go, or provide a reference track for the AI, click go, and it analyzes the reference track to inform its decisions.  Either path you take, the end result is that it builds out a master processing chain that is applied to your mix on the master/stereo out channel in about 10 seconds.   You can then listen and tweak all the knobs and sliders until you are happy with it and do a final master bounce.

In practice, I like to provide a reference track that has a final master I like.  It can be anything, a Steely Dan, Pantera or Hans Zimmer track.  The AI gets me in the ballpark and I’ll usually spend ~hour tweaking, dump a master, give my ears a rest, listen to the dump on all the speakers I can from monitors to car stereo to cell phone, note any tweaks I think need to be made, and then repeat until I have a final master that I like.  Usually it’s it’s one or two iterations so this has pretty much cut my mastering process down to 2-3 hours and the result is as good or better than what I was producing on my own with 8-16 hours spent mastering a track

Ozone 11 has a 10 day free trial, a standard version that is $149 and a pro version that is $299.  I wouldn’t recommend the elements version for $39 as it does not have the AI feature.

https://www.izotope.com/en/products/ozone.html

[G650 14229]

Izotope has several good products for people working at home that won't break the bank, and are often on sale. I typically don't use a lot of their stuff as I've just been doing it one way for so freaking long I can't be bothered to change, but I do use their Rx products fairly regularly.

[Celery Man 20929]

I kinda want to head down to goodwill and just find a boombox, lean fully into the Mountain Goats aesthetic

 

[UncleBuck 6452]

Just found this thread, good stuff! figured what the hell, I'll jump in.

This is just something I did messing around with bandlab a couple of years ago. I did the acoustic part, then using the bandlab stuff I created a drum track and then ran the acoustic solo through one of the amps on there. Just a short thing messing around. Thought it came out neat:

Then here's a song I wrote a couple of years back:

 

[ohchaucer 1443]

Love it, Buck!  And thanks for the replies above. Still lots to learn and appreciate all the help here and in the song group. 

On a related note, here's a draft of the song I'm working on for this workshop I'm doing here locally.  As I mentioned, I'm forcing myself to have distinct songs for each group so they're all a little less polished until I get some more spare time.  This one in particular has a couple of edit blips (drums) and both my guitar and my singing are a little strained as it was a single take.  Also, I need to get a proper drum mic setup - this is just a Shure SM58 sitting at about cymbal height in front.  But what the hell.... welcome any thoughts or feedback!

 

[G650 14229]

I dig those @UncleBuck Got a TVZ vibe on the second which is always a positive!

 

 

Don't sleep on just a single drum mic @ohchaucer. One 57 out in front can do wonders and a 58 is damn near the same thing. Check this video out from Ian Schreier.

 

 

[Goredho 17394]

1 hour ago, UncleBuck said:

Just found this thread, good stuff! figured what the hell, I'll jump in.

This is just something I did messing around with bandlab a couple of years ago. I did the acoustic part, then using the bandlab stuff I created a drum track and then ran the acoustic solo through one of the amps on there. Just a short thing messing around. Thought it came out neat:

Then here's a song I wrote a couple of years back:

 

Real good stuff, Buck.  Grab a chair and help yourself to the beer in the cooler.

I have a request for anyone posting their music with singing/lyrics.  If you don't mind, could you also post the lyrics?  Would help my brain that is being fed by shitty ears that have had too much gunfire and guitar piped into them understand whats being conveyed lyrically.