Supplements for us active olds, worth it? Suggestions?

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

I know nothing replaces a healthy diet and sleep, but do any of y'all believe supplements are worth the money and helpful?  I am not trying to turn back the clock, if that was the case, I would just do steroids (I wouldn't really).  I am curious about supplements mostly for recovery and joint health.  I am 44 and have been training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for the past 14 years.  I have been sidelined off and on for the last several years due to various injuries, but soon I will be getting back on the mats.  I think I am getting enough lean protein and good greens and vegetables, so not sure if powdered protein would be helpful.  School me on BCAAs...do they work, worth it, side effects?  I know fish oil is often suggested for joint health but I have heard so many mixed things about it that I am not sure if worth it or not.

Suggestions?

[XYZ 2154]

Were your injuries caused by BJJ?

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Were your injuries caused by BJJ?

I don’t think the chronic ones were. Well, not my back problems. I think I have a shoulder impingement, not sure what caused that but possibly BJJ. Going to doctor this week.

I guess I should add chasing after my 3 and 5 year old daughters certainly doesn’t help when it comes to getting enough rest or recovery.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2740]

I’m 45 and try to keep the diet fairly clean. Usually at the gym a minimum of 3x per week but I’m starting to focus more on HIIT instead of heavy iron.

I take a multi, Omega 3, collagen peptide in coffee and a scoop of Amazing Greens in my protein shake.
Need to do better with my toy tap water intake. Slacking a bit there.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Do you feel the omega-3 really helps? I took it years ago but don’t recall it making a difference.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2740]

I’ve been taking it for so long I’m not sure.
I think the collagen has helped.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Gotcha. 

I was talking to my BJJ teacher today and he said after he broke his leg and pelvis in a car accident when he was a teenager back in Brazil he has had all kinds of pain until someone suggested glucosamine.  He said it helped immensely.  Going to give that a shot and see if it helps with all the creaking.

[Irish Wrist Watch 1398]

A friend who knows about such things says that a good multi-vitamin is all you need. My GI says salads aren't a good source of fiber, but that Fiber Gummies are the best things going. Megadoses of vitamins can fuck with your clock - maybe open the door for supplying nutrition for a cancer cell that your immune system would have otherwise killed. That said I take a ton of Vit C when I get a cold. Knocks it out pretty fast. Sounds like Zinc is a good one, especially if you get Covid. Heard Docs are prescribing it and C and D along with a popular antibiotic to Covid patients.

FWIW, When I was young I took a chromium supplement (chromium sulfate, maybe?) for muscle development. My GP did a test that showed a worrisome chromium buildup in the bone marrow or something like that. Chromium in sufficient quantities can mess you up. Sodium, of course is deadly, I believe, although sodium chloride isn't (salt).

Moderation in all things... except allegiance to UT football.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2740]

Probably chromium picolinate.
It was very popular mid to late 90’s when I worked at a gym in college.

[torre 1286]

22 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

I don’t think the chronic ones were. Well, not my back problems. I think I have a shoulder impingement, not sure what caused that but possibly BJJ. Going to doctor this week.

 

Would be good to discuss supplements mentioned above with your doctor.    As Irish indicates above,  there can be side effects.

Not familiar with BJJ.   Do participants  also have a secondary exercise regiment,  particularly, strength training, aerobics, and stretching, yoga etc.   Stretching can cure alot of ills and becomes more important as you age.   

 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

33 minutes ago, torre said:

Would be good to discuss supplements mentioned above with your doctor.    As Irish indicates above,  there can be side effects.

Not familiar with BJJ.   Do participants  also have a secondary exercise regiment,  particularly, strength training, aerobics, and stretching, yoga etc.   Stretching can cure alot of ills and becomes more important as you age.   

 

Yeah, a lot of practitioners do other exercise.  We do a lot of stretching in general.  I guess I am talking more about recovery but also joint health.  Obviously stretching and strength and conditioning helps a great deal with that, but wanted to get some input into things that might help in addition to those...especially as I (we) get older.

[ztejas 43538]

5 hours ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

maybe open the door for supplying nutrition for a cancer cell that your immune system would have otherwise killed.

What the hell are you talking about?

5 hours ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

Sodium, of course is deadly, I believe, although sodium chloride isn't (salt).

Dude, what?

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

14 hours ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

I’ve been taking it for so long I’m not sure.
I think the collagen has helped.

Isn't collagen supposed to help with sagging skin? Cuz I'm 43 and feel like I need a bra but I'm not overweight by much.  

[Irish Wrist Watch 1398]

13 hours ago, ztejas said:

What the hell are you talking about?

Dude, what?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/21/vitamin-supplements-increase-risk-cancer-heart-disease-research

And sodium is a metal. That's right, it isn't baking soda, it's a fucking metal which can be toxic. Sodium chloride, although extremely rare, is safe... if say, you'd like to sprinkle it on your potato. (not a sexual reference).

Also, my first comment really just addressed supplements in general. As far as joint pain goes:

-The aforementioned friend has a lot of joint issues - bone on bone to the point of a doctor asking him how he can even move his shoulder. In the past, he's taken a lot of glucosamine - it didn't help at all. Cortisone injections help him a lot.

-I used to have fairly bad arthritis in my hands. I discovered it disappeared if I took claritin daily. If I stop the C, after a couple of days it will come roaring back. Some shoulder pain seems to react the same way. Always wary of taking too much of any drug, I've just started going to an every other day on the Claritin. So far, no arthritis.

Doing the same thing with baby aspirin. I'd been taking it daily for years, but a colonoscopy and upper GI revealed that my stomach was "inflamed" or "wearing out" with no real explanation as to why. So I reasoned that, since aspirin is associated with stomach bleeding, I'd cut back on it to every other day. I could tell that my colon liked it... but maybe not enough as my stomach still felt a bit queasy at times. The GI prescribed some chalky shit called sucralfate which has been working well.

The problem with taking too much shit, is that when things start to go wrong, you have a hard time figuring out the source of the problem, and a doctor can end up giving you even more shit to take. Eat a balanced diet. You can make delicious salad with lettuce, a tomato, a hard boiled egg and some bacon bits IF you can find a good FRESH salad dressing. If your salad dressing is on a non-refrigerated store shelf, it isn't fresh, and chances are it has preservatives and tastes like hell. Marzetti Ranch is the best I've found. A friend served me a Caesar salad last week that was one of the best salads I've ever had. She bought it at HEB - all prepackaged, dressing and everything, called something like Deluxe Caesar Salad.

And yes, it was chromium picolinate.

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Irish Wrist Watch

[ztejas 43538]

1 hour ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/21/vitamin-supplements-increase-risk-cancer-heart-disease-research

Yes, I'm aware that there are some studies questioning the efficacy of vitamins and minerals taken at an excessive level. I was more wondering where you got the idea that these supplements are "feeding cancer cells that the immune system would have otherwise dispensed" when, in the study you linked, it states:

Byers said it was unclear why the supplements increased health risks, 

And yes, of course sodium is a metal. Just like iron, zinc, copper, and magnesium are all metals. Why you seem to beleive that the sodium in pure sodium is different than the sodium in sodium chloride is beyond me and displays a very poor understanding of pretty elementary chemistry. 

[XYZ 2154]

7 hours ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/21/vitamin-supplements-increase-risk-cancer-heart-disease-research

And sodium is a metal. That's right, it isn't baking soda, it's a fucking metal which can be toxic. Sodium chloride, although extremely rare, is safe... if say, you'd like to sprinkle it on your potato. (not a sexual reference).

Also, my first comment really just addressed supplements in general. As far as joint pain goes:

-The aforementioned friend has a lot of joint issues - bone on bone to the point of a doctor asking him how he can even move his shoulder. In the past, he's taken a lot of glucosamine - it didn't help at all. Cortisone injections help him a lot.

-I used to have fairly bad arthritis in my hands. I discovered it disappeared if I took claritin daily. If I stop the C, after a couple of days it will come roaring back. Some shoulder pain seems to react the same way. Always wary of taking too much of any drug, I've just started going to an every other day on the Claritin. So far, no arthritis.

Doing the same thing with baby aspirin. I'd been taking it daily for years, but a colonoscopy and upper GI revealed that my stomach was "inflamed" or "wearing out" with no real explanation as to why. So I reasoned that, since aspirin is associated with stomach bleeding, I'd cut back on it to every other day. I could tell that my colon liked it... but maybe not enough as my stomach still felt a bit queasy at times. The GI prescribed some chalky shit called sucralfate which has been working well.

The problem with taking too much shit, is that when things start to go wrong, you have a hard time figuring out the source of the problem, and a doctor can end up giving you even more shit to take. Eat a balanced diet. You can make delicious salad with lettuce, a tomato, a hard boiled egg and some bacon bits IF you can find a good FRESH salad dressing. If your salad dressing is on a non-refrigerated store shelf, it isn't fresh, and chances are it has preservatives and tastes like hell. Marzetti Ranch is the best I've found. A friend served me a Caesar salad last week that was one of the best salads I've ever had. She bought it at HEB - all prepackaged, dressing and everything, called something like Deluxe Caesar Salad.

And yes, it was chromium picolinate.

Claritin??? The anti-allergy medicine?

[Irish Wrist Watch 1398]

12 hours ago, XYZ said:

Claritin??? The anti-allergy medicine?

Yep. Another friend's wife has been taking HCQ daily (pretty sure, daily) for years for arthritis. HCQ is commonly prescribed for lupus, or so I've heard.

[Irish Wrist Watch 1398]

18 hours ago, ztejas said:

Yes, I'm aware that there are some studies questioning the efficacy of vitamins and minerals taken at an excessive level. I was more wondering where you got the idea that these supplements are "feeding cancer cells that the immune system would have otherwise dispensed" when, in the study you linked, it states:

Byers said it was unclear why the supplements increased health risks, 

And yes, of course sodium is a metal. Just like iron, zinc, copper, and magnesium are all metals. Why you seem to beleive that the sodium in pure sodium is different than the sodium in sodium chloride is beyond me and displays a very poor understanding of pretty elementary chemistry. 

Your right, I'm wrong. If you had made this comment sooner instead of WTHAYTA, I would have  corrected sooner. I'd always heard that sodium was deadly. Guess not. And sodium is contained in baking soda, apparently. If you have liver problems, you should limit its intake, apparently.

FWIW, ran across these two statements 

• At just five times the RDI, zinc, iron, chromium and selenium can be raised to toxic levels in the body.
• Iron toxicity is also common. Even a small amount over the RDI can cause gastrointestinal upset, nausea and black bowel actions (poo). Severe toxicity can lead to coma and even death.

And this from some obscure govt website.: "And if you do need to take a supplement, it is best to take multivitamins at the recommended dietary level, rather than single nutrient supplements or high-dose multivitamins."

[ztejas 43538]

On 11/4/2020 at 8:09 AM, Irish Wrist Watch said:

Your right, I'm wrong. If you had made this comment sooner instead of WTHAYTA, I would have  corrected sooner. I'd always heard that sodium was deadly. Guess not. And sodium is contained in baking soda, apparently. If you have liver problems, you should limit its intake, apparently.

FWIW, ran across these two statements 

• At just five times the RDI, zinc, iron, chromium and selenium can be raised to toxic levels in the body.
• Iron toxicity is also common. Even a small amount over the RDI can cause gastrointestinal upset, nausea and black bowel actions (poo). Severe toxicity can lead to coma and even death.

And this from some obscure govt website.: "And if you do need to take a supplement, it is best to take multivitamins at the recommended dietary level, rather than single nutrient supplements or high-dose multivitamins."

No worries. Nailing down the science on any of this shit is almost impossible. Sorry if I was a dick about it 🤷‍♂️

[Stella Link 534]

About 30 years ago I started having early arthritis in my knee from a surgery 10 years prior.  I'm a runner and it prevented me from running.  My aunt told me to take a teaspoon of cod liver oil every day.   YUCK...I hate any kind of fish, so I held my nose and took it anyway.  After 3 days, the pain was completely gone and as long as I keep taking cod liver oil, it stays away.  Today, I take three softgels every day....

Also take a multi, 5,000 IU of D3 and 100mg of k2 since covid started.  Probably need to add some zinc.  

 

[SHOOTER12 8829]

My list, and yes I believe.

1.  Tons of water

2. Glucosamine chondroitin

3. CoQ10

4.Magnesium (drs directive)

5. Calcium

6. Fish oil (drs directive)

7. Ginkgo biloba

8. Super vitamin B complex

9. D3 (drs directive)

10. Vitamin C

11. Zinc

 

Twice a day, every day.

Edited November 6, 2020 by SHOOTER12

[ztejas 43538]

1 hour ago, SHOOTER12 said:

My list, and yes I believe.

1.  Tons of water

2. Glucosamine chondroitin

3. CoQ10

4.Magnesium (drs directive)

5. Calcium

6. Fish oil (drs directive)

7. Ginkgo biloba

8. Super vitamin B complex

9. D3 (drs directive)

10. Vitamin C

11. Zinc

 

Twice a day, every day.

Just realized I didn't give any input on the actual question.

I take -

B12

Probiotic

D3

Turmeric

Ashwaganda

Omega 3

Probably going to add zinc to the mix, too. Could prob stand to take Magnesium.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2740]

I tried some probiotics but I was crapping like a goose.

[Not that Bob 739]

I was very skeptical, but got some tumeric curcumin complex, and damned if my knees didn't stop hurting. I still can't believe it, but after 3 months knees still better.

[ztejas 43538]

4 minutes ago, Not that Bob said:

I was very skeptical, but got some tumeric curcumin complex, and damned if my knees didn't stop hurting. I still can't believe it, but after 3 months knees still better.

Yeah - it's a really good anti inflammatory. It does require that you take it every day for awhile to build up in your system. 

Anyone looking into it - make sure you get a supplement that includes bioperine - or black pepper extract - as it helps the body absorb it.

2 hours ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

I tried some probiotics but I was crapping like a goose.

I don't think everyone needs them. People's gut health can vary pretty wildly. Personally, I wrecked mine from pretty disgusting binge drinking and I'm trying to work my way back.

Edited November 6, 2020 by ztejas

[Irish Wrist Watch 1398]

Definitely agree with drinking plenty of water. Someday the scientists will decide once and for all that coffee is good for you.

[ztejas 43538]

Well, opiates are still in use as medicine. Top left has to be fake. 

[HRSchenker 2274]

As a pharmacist this thread is gold. 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

As a pharmacist this thread is gold. 

Ok. But do you have any constructive input that might help people?

[ztejas 43538]

9 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Ok. But do you have any constructive input that might help people?

Doctors with actual medical degrees barely agree on a lot of this shit so I'm not sure why his input would be more valuable than anyone else's.

Supplements and medications are a very personal thing. Outside of getting blood work done it basically boils down to what works for you and makes you feel better? 

I mean psychiatry is pretty much just making guesses (very educated, well informed ones - to be fair) and throwing shit at the wall to see if it sticks. 

[HRSchenker 2274]

Sodium chloride isn't dangerous in small amounts but as you get older it's something you need to avoid. It causes you to retain water which raises blood pressure and eventually leads to kidney issues too. Although I know it's great to sprinkle sea salt chunks on a baked potato, most of us have no idea how much salt is already in our food. Biggest offenders are those frozen meals you might see people bring to work.

Shooter's list is pretty good minus 4, 7, 10 and 11. A super B complex needs to contain 800mcg of folic acid. Avoid colloidal silver. Avoid fruit "ketones". Fish oil is good but make sure your LDL isn't already elevated or borderline. 

[South Austin 52615]

I lift regularly so I consume a lot of protein powder. I also take:

Omega3

D3

Calcium

Zinc

NAC

B12

American Ginseng

Fenugreek

L-Citrulline

DEA

The last four are supposed to be good for the wang.

[F250 28823]

I'm pretty skeptical of the benefits of vitamins so I don't really bother taking any. I am pretty meticulous with my micronutrient intake from food so I just eat clean and focus on tracking my nutrition that way instead of pissing out expensive vitamins. I eat fish/shellfish as my primary source of protein 4 days out of the week.

 

Supplements I take:

100 oz water

Whey protein 20-30g

Creatine 5g

BCAA 10g to 20g

 

 

[ztejas 43538]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

instead of pissing out expensive vitamins.

 

1 hour ago, F250 said:

Whey protein 20-30g

Creatine 5g

BCAA 10g to 20g

Lol

[F250 28823]

18 hours ago, ztejas said:

 

Lol

[bernorange 8365]

A doc once told me that if I wanted to take a multi vitamin, to get a pre-natal formula.  They aren't as concentrated so you piss less of it away.

[Irish Wrist Watch 1398]

On 11/9/2020 at 7:36 PM, bernorange said:

A doc once told me that if I wanted to take a multi vitamin, to get a pre-natal formula.  They aren't as concentrated so you piss less of it away.

How do you get the fetus to take the vitamins if it's still in the womb? Wouldn't you have to take like 50 a day because of the size differential?

[XYZ 2154]

On 11/8/2020 at 10:51 PM, F250 said:

100 oz water

Funny!

[Jerry Callo 8728]