Where Do Democrats Go From Here

[MonkeyDoughnut 10232]

7 minutes ago, Pancho said:

See my post from yesterday and previously on this website, but establishment Dems have got to get the fuck out. 

Pelose

Feinstein

Schumer

Waters

EBJ

SJL

Blumenthal

Leahy

 

And kidnap the establishment Repubs on their way out.... as much as Trump is a POS, Congress has been a POS way before he got there.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, troph said:

You can also look at rural policies - the gig economy isn’t available in rural America. We need a “Rural New Deal” with reliable modern economy infrastructure brought to dying communities. Having traveled to remote areas all summer, I can definitely say you can join the modern economy very easily from these places. Dems have to solve that problem.

Jobs.

Democrats need to decide whether they want to grow dependency upon the gov't or jobs.  Small towns are dying because of the lack thereof, and growing more dependent upon gov't programs.

Many Dems don't see a problem there.

[hobbes2702 13032]

2 minutes ago, slorch said:

Jobs.

Democrats need to decide whether they want to grow dependency upon the gov't or jobs.  Small towns are dying because of the lack thereof, and growing more dependent upon gov't programs.

Many Dems don't see a problem there.

I wonder why that is

[Aqua Buddha 14585]

Republicans will tell you it's the social issues but if that's the case, Jon Bel Edwards should dominate North Louisiana but alas, he doesn't.

[Aqua Buddha 14585]

3 minutes ago, slorch said:

Jobs.

Democrats need to decide whether they want to grow dependency upon the gov't or jobs.  Small towns are dying because of the lack thereof, and growing more dependent upon gov't programs.

Many Dems don't see a problem there.

Most jobs in small town are with the government.

[wildcat09 29349]

A lot of y'all don't want to admit it, but last night proved @bad_teammate teammate right about a lot of shit.  If the Dems want to actually defeat Trumpism, they have to offer something that marginal voters think is better. That requires more than commercials showing your candidate riding a motorcycle. That shit might work for Republicans with Republican base voters, but it doesn't work with the voters that might be gettable for Democrats. The milquetoast "aw shucks I'm a decent person who will care about your family" shit isn't enough.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

As opposed to Republicans, who are all very charitable in their views of liberals.

If you don't see it, then you are not  looking for solutions.

The name calling in chat boards is one thing.  When you see what is happening to our cities in the name of "justice" that premise is hardly compelling to "joining the other side."

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Pretty clear where the GOP is going. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I wonder why that is

economies change.  Not necessarily a bad thing.

 

Jobs and education are the keys to a viable society/ equality.  Work from that standpoint, and I would wager more folks would be interested.  and by "work" I mean it doesn't begin and end with handouts and gov't programs. 

Edited November 4, 2020 by slorch

[wildcat09 29349]

Just now, slorch said:

If you don't see it, then you are not  looking for solutions.

The name calling in chat boards is one thing.  When you see what is happening to our cities in the name of "justice" that premise is hardly compelling to "joining the other side."

What is happening to our cities are fucking covid outbreaks. I can promise you nobody in Houston is worried about looters, we're worried about people like you getting us sick.

[hobbes2702 13032]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

economies change.  Not necessarily a bad thing.

 

Jobs and education are the keys to a viable society/ equality.  Work from that standpoint, and I would wager more folks would be interested.

So how do we get jobs back to small towns?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

We need more Katie Porters

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

So how do we get jobs back to small towns?

Not sure that is possible, and yes, i lived  in 2 very small towns while growing up.  I currently work in West Texas and in similar small towns every day.   I don't think those jobs ever come back.  The focus should still be on education, so that the youth in said rural areas can still compete for higher education/ jobs down the road.

Obviously i would never favor just neglecting the small towns, but I'm not convinced throwing all the money in the world at this specific issue would solve for it.   People's goals and desires are different than they were 50 years ago when many of these same towns were thriving.  The town where my mom lives had a Ford and Chevy dealership, multiple restaurants, 5 gins, 3 banks, etc, etc.   Now it has a Dairy Queen, Allsups, Dollar general, a a few small shops.  If not for its proximity to Lubbock and being a commuter town, it would be fucked.

Edited November 4, 2020 by slorch

[hobbes2702 13032]

Just now, slorch said:

Not sure that is possible, and yes, i grew up in 2 very small towns.  I currently work in West Texas and in similar small towns every day.   I don't think those jobs ever come back.  The focus should still be on education, so that the youth in said rural areas can still compete for higher education/ jobs down the road.

Are you under the impression that Dems aren’t focused on improving educational opportunities for Americans?

[G650 14249]

1 hour ago, Your Mom said:

We are a nation of idiots and with bad money management skills and racist tendencies (at best) who don’t collectively value education or true decency.

/thread.

[G650 14249]

The real answer is fucking deliver something of value to the American people. FDR did that and built a half century long coalition.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Are you under the impression that Dems aren’t focused on improving educational opportunities for Americans?

at times, yes, I question their motives and the curriculum some of them embrace.

To be fair, if you recall from some of the education threads we have had, I come down pretty damned squarely in line with the typical Dems' POV on public schools.

Edited November 4, 2020 by slorch

[SilasCoade 2622]

2 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

This is probably one of the biggest factors. People vote for self interest for the most part.

No, they do not. That is the fucking problem. Most of the people voting for Trump are going to get fucked by his agenda.

[westexhorn 2015]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

They don’t want to hear from us. 

But i thought the goal of the thread is to flip some votes.  There are those who are moderate who will flip if you hit the right tunes.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Where do Democrats go from here?

 

I dunno, maybe start by electing the candidate that is best suited to beat trump. That’s a start. And no I’m definitely not talking about Bernie. But that’s a different discussion for a different thread

[G650 14249]

1 minute ago, Llogg said:

No, they do not. That is the fucking problem. Most of the people voting for Trump are going to get fucked by his agenda.

* perceived self interest

[SilasCoade 2622]

Just now, youdunnf'dup said:

Where do Democrats go from here?

 

I dunno, maybe start by electing the candidate that is best suited to beat trump. That’s a start. And no I’m definitely not talking about Bernie. But that’s a different discussion for a different thread

Yeah, providing a quality alternative is a pretty good fucking idea. Not unelectable Hillary and one-foot-in-the-grave Joe.

[Hank Kingsley 20914]

I haven't looked over the data yet, but it seems like Democrats made significant strides with white people. The issue is minorities and immigrants, and there are some deep-seeded issues that make this tough to navigate.

 

My personal example of this: I'm half Iranian. The Iranian side of my family all supported Donald Trump. All of them. And the vast majority of their Iranian friends. 

What makes this fucked up?  Most of my family had to escape Iran in the early 80s when Khomeini took power. My grandfather was executed by firing squad. My dad and uncle were already in Texas, but the rest of the family had to flee to Turkey, then Spain, and a couple of years later made it to America. Obviously there is a lot of trauma there, but their instincts lead them to support a fascist POS here in the U.S. 

In the end, they are thankful to be here, have been generally successful financially, and only really care about what's best for them. Capitalism won out, and means more to them than democracy or the betterment of society. And I think a lot of other immigrants - where family is everything -  feel the same way. 

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

cross post from election thread

 

[bad_teammate 13193]

This will sound like excuse-making, but COVID was a MASSIVE hit to Biden's campaign because it strangled voter outreach in the way that Democrats traditionally do it and amplified the online insanity that Trumpism feeds on.

2022/2024 needs to look different in terms of on the ground voter efforts. If anyone here cares, they need to spit the taste of this basically-a-defeat out of their mouths and swear a blood oath to do ON THE GROUND REAL WORK in 2022 and 2024. The war doesn't end.

Are Americans stupid? Fine, then reach them at their level.

Are you morally superior to all these idiots? Great, win them over anyway.

I'm going to guess that 90% of the Surly anti-Trump crew did ZERO phonebanking. Change that.

[tantric superman 4667]

Dems need to open the tent to Jesus freaks and redneck whites and focus on economic issues.  They allowed republicans to sucker them into the culture wars and now its going to be hell getting out of them.  I'm not sure it's possible.

[DigglerontheHoof 21184]

1 minute ago, tantric superman said:

Dems need to open the tent to Jesus freaks and redneck whites and focus on economic issues.  They allowed republicans to sucker them into the culture wars and now its going to be hell getting out of them.  I'm not sure it's possible.

only way to get the Jesus freaks is to go all in on abortion bans

[Errestaurants 2570]

3 hours ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Get some new blood. The thought of Fucking 80+ year old, corporate sellout, Nancy Pelosi running the house again is giving me low-t. Dems got crushed in the house yesterday. 

This all day. Anybody that thinks Pelosi is any less divisive than Trump is crazy. I say that not giving 2 shits about that orange blowhard. 

The problem with the "new" blood is it seems to be more of them same. I feel Texas is going to be unstable. There is a strong hatred from a large coalition of native Texans that despise Californians moving here and bringing their politics. 

 

[westexhorn 2015]

7 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I haven't looked over the data yet, but it seems like Democrats made significant strides with white people. The issue is minorities and immigrants, and there are some deep-seeded issues that make this tough to navigate.

 

My personal example of this: I'm half Iranian. The Iranian side of my family all supported Donald Trump. All of them. And the vast majority of their Iranian friends. 

What makes this fucked up?  Most of my family had to escape Iran in the early 80s when Khomeini took power. My grandfather was executed by firing squad. My dad and uncle were already in Texas, but the rest of the family had to flee to Turkey, then Spain, and a couple of years later made it to America. Obviously there is a lot of trauma there, but their instincts lead them to support a fascist POS here in the U.S. 

In the end, they are thankful to be here, have been generally successful financially, and only really care about what's best for them. Capitalism won out, and means more to them than democracy or the betterment of society. And I think a lot of other immigrants - where family is everything -  feel the same way. 

For many immigrants, they come to the USA primarily for better economic opportunity and safety.  The riots do not help with the image of either of these.

Edited November 4, 2020 by westexhorn

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

40 minutes ago, troph said:

You can also look at rural policies - the gig economy isn’t available in rural America. We need a “Rural New Deal” with reliable modern economy infrastructure brought to dying communities. Having traveled to remote areas all summer, I can definitely say you can join the modern economy very easily from these places. Dems have to solve that problem.

Need better internet everywhere. That’s infrastructure development that would really help. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26441]

Nobody asked for my  take but here it is:
Back on Hornfans in 2007-2008 during a conversation with @washparkhorn and I think @Brothahorn I posited (among other things) that I thought the election of Obama after defeating Hillary Clinton would "close the deal" within the frame of the Democratic coalition and would be followed by a slow drift of otherwise-republican-profile nonwhites to the GOP.  That appears to have been a major part of this election. 

The big takeaways for me are as follows:
1) The Democratic coalition has serious strategic flaws as currently constructed.

2) The Democratic party's economic THEME (not policy details) of driving middle class economic interest across the board needs to be front and center and primary, and social issues, while important, need to be secondary except at the state local level where they carry votes or until broad shared prosperity brings them to the forefront. 
 

3) Branding is crucial.

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[SizzleChest 8283]

7 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Dems need to open the tent to Jesus freaks and redneck whites and focus on economic issues.  They allowed republicans to sucker them into the culture wars and now its going to be hell getting out of them.  I'm not sure it's possible.

And Dems keep pushing identity politics.  If this cycle's outcome tells them anything, it's that they need focus on economic benefit.  As much as racial and social justice issues matter, it really pales in comparison to economic justice issues.  And Democrats are terrible at selling this, and I see no pathway (ha ha ha ha) for this to change with the kinds of national candidates they continue to push, save for maybe Yang or Buttigieg.

Edited November 4, 2020 by SizzleChest

[westexhorn 2015]

 

2 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Ding ding ding. They need to listen to those groups, but more importantly need to totally stay out of social issues and become the party of economic prudence. That is all I care about. 

Right now, neither party represents me (and, I suspect, the majority of the country whether they realize it or not).  So I’ll continue to not vote. 

I am conservative leaning, I abhor Trump.  Speak to safety and economy, economy, economy and you will win many moderates.  Did i mention economy?

[Pokoloco 1280]

2 hours ago, Voldemort86 said:

I can’t believe how stupid people in Miami Dade are.  They fell for Trumps lies hook, line, and sinker. Those fuckers got DUPED.

 

 

I think you assume people are just voting FOR Trump..a large number are really voting against cancel culture, censorship, defunding the police, riots, shut downs etc...

[RDCanecutter 26408]

31 minutes ago, slorch said:

The town where my mom lives had a Ford and Chevy dealership, multiple restaurants, 5 gins, 3 banks, etc, etc.   Now it has a Dairy Queen, Allsups, Dollar general, a a few small shops.  If not for its proximity to Lubbock and being a commuter town, it would be fucked.

Similar situation in my small city of Selma Al. If you wanted to restore it to its commercial heyday, a good start would be to blow the bridge to much larger Montgomery where everybody goes to shop.

Transportation is just too good and easy nowadays for small towns to support businesses that are duplicates of bigger ones an easy drive away. With a shift to online, who knows, maybe that's helping locals, oddly.

[bad_teammate 13193]

2 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

And identity politics.  If this cycle's outcome tells them anything, it's that they need focus on economic benefit.  As much as racial and social justice issues matter, it really pales in comparison to economic justice issues.

*nodding Communistically*

Donald Trump is an insanely famous man saying, "I'm so bigly rich and good at business. I want you to be rich, too!"

And what have Democrats and Republicans ALIKE been selling the black community as the answer to all problems? Entrepreneurship.

Everyone owns a business. Open a business in a black community and employee 3 black people for 2 years and one half-Haitian with a cleft palette and you're eligible for a 13.2% tax credit after you subtract Line C3 from Line A10.

Democrats have been partners with Republicans for 3 decades now in degrading the concept of collective economic justice. Why would economically oppressed communities like Democrats? Because they painted BLACK LIVES MATTER on a street for EPIC SHADE CLAPBACK against CHEETO MUSSOLINI? No. Show them the money. Their kids can't eat woke signalling.

So then you've got Golden Toilet Donald saying, "I'm going to make you rich!" and Biden saying, "C'mon, man... I know about... listen Jack. We're going to choose fact over science fiction.

Rebuild faith in our collective institutions. Remind people why government programs are what separate us from hell.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Most jobs in small town are with the government.

Indeed, just like the top paid government employee in Texas works at College Station.   Schools are all most of the smaller towns have.( you're preaching to the choir.)

Also, I do not necessarily equate a gov't job with the dependency some Dems espouse.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10232]

Having celebrities and media (that people normally don't really like) as your megaphones hurts more than it helps.

Monolithic name calling and branding is a losing expansion plan.

It's still about what you bring to the table, not just telling people how much what the other guy brought sucks.

Actually believing 48%+ of the country is just racist and ignorant is undercounting the ignorant number.

[bad_teammate 13193]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

Also, I do not necessarily equate a gov't job with the dependency some Dems espouse.

REBUILD FAITH IN OUR INSTITUTIONS BY HAVING THOSE INSTITUTIONS ACTUALLY HELP PEOPLE EVEN RIGHT-WINGERS WILL LOVE IT

[Macklemore 2876]

3 hours ago, Voldemort86 said:

I can’t believe how stupid people in Miami Dade are.  They fell for Trumps lies hook, line, and sinker. Those fuckers got DUPED.

 

 

First and second-generation Cuban, Nicaraguan, Venezuelan-Americans have the memory of having their homelands destroyed by socialists/communists. That is a powerful and lasting scar that is passed on down for generations. The street protests over the summer stirred up those memories and rekindled the experiences and fears they lived through. Throw in Argentineans who had one of the richest countries in the world that has gone to shit with their see-sawing between Peronism and free-market. The GOP can create a true multi-ethnic socially conservative working class party with Latinos as a huge chunk of that coalition if they are smart.

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Macklemore

[Hank Kingsley 20914]

I know it won't happen, but if/when Biden wins this election, they need to publicly state that we should abolish the electoral college. 

The reality is it's a massive deterrent to positive change in this country. 

 

 

[RDCanecutter 26408]

5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I know it won't happen, but if/when Biden wins this election, they need to publicly state that we should abolish the electoral college.

Keep the EC, but bust every state into Wyoming-population chunks with two Senators and one Rep each. Let me get started building new apartments in DC first.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

6 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I know it won't happen, but if/when Biden wins this election, they need to publicly state that we should abolish the electoral college. 

The reality is it's a massive deterrent to positive change in this country. 

 

 

I don't agree; America is too large to be decided by a few metropolitan areas. If it were a smaller country without regions I would agree.

[Don Johnson 4752]

7 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

First and second-generation Cuban, Nicaraguan, Venezuelan-Americans have the memory of having their homelands destroyed by socialists/communists. That is a powerful and lasting scar that is passed on down for generations. The street protests over the summer stirred up those memories and rekindled the experiences and fears they lived through. Throw in Argentineans who had one of the richest countries in the world that has gone to shit with their see-sawing between Peronism and free-market. The GOP can create a true multi-ethnic socially conservative working class party with Latinos as a huge chunk of that coalition if they are smart.

 

Those are all racist, bad people.  

[DigglerontheHoof 21184]

10 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I know it won't happen, but if/when Biden wins this election, they need to publicly state that we should abolish the electoral college. 

The reality is it's a massive deterrent to positive change in this country. 

 

 

And in solidly blue or red states, a huge disincentive to vote, if you align w/ the opposition. 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

Where do democrats go from here?

I think the Democratic Presidency will be the flip side of the Republican Presidency we've had the last 4 years:

1) Partisan, bitter divide in both the government and the public

2) Nothing really gets done/approved/passed in a gridlock, outside of executive orders

3) A vocal minority of ANTI-BIDEN spawns up on this website and dominates the CR.

4) There is a Red Wave in 2022

5) It's a close win by GOP in 2024

 

I, for one, welcome the perpetual motion of the pendulum swinging.

And spare me with the progressive far-left needs more oxygen; Warren, Bernie, etc. would have been boat raced in this election and would have ushered in a 2nd Trump term-- Democrats, and American's at large, owe the change here to the adults in the room that propped up Biden as he was the only path.

Edited November 4, 2020 by DonkeyCigars

[LABEVO 928]

[softlynow 1814]

3 hours ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Florida passed a $15 minimum wage with 61% of the vote. 

 

3 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

And voted for Trump because of socialism fears.  

The electorate isn’t very rational.   

Because they don't know what to fear. They think socialism means less stuff for them

I think Florida gave Dems the path to future victory: buy people's votes the way Trump did. Put pocketbook issues front and center. Not "health care," not "job training," not "social safety net." Whether it's direct payments Yang-style, or making Amazon have a processing center in every county or incorporated city, or promising contract military jobs to EVERYONE.oldman.gif, promise the economic moon. If Pubs are going all in on racism from here, go overboard on what you should be good at.

If they're calling you socialist, and the rurals see you promising them economic relief/benefit, maybe that word won't be so scary after a while.

[Burt Macklin 19020]

3 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

This is probably one of the biggest factors. People vote for self interest for the most part.

 

57 minutes ago, Llogg said:

No, they do not. That is the fucking problem. Most of the people voting for Trump are going to get fucked by his agenda.

They vote for idealistic self-interest. As in, I daydream I’ll be rich, so I want the laws to benefit me when I get there. 

42 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

And Dems keep pushing identity politics.  If this cycle's outcome tells them anything, it's that they need focus on economic benefit.  As much as racial and social justice issues matter, it really pales in comparison to economic justice issues.  And Democrats are terrible at selling this, and I see no pathway (ha ha ha ha) for this to change with the kinds of national candidates they continue to push, save for maybe Yang or Buttigieg.

This and a lot of others in the thread hit the nail on the head. It’s the Economy, Stupid.
 

Back off social issues like abortion and gun control, which just add fuel to the GOP’s decades-growing foothold of riling up voters over social issues and turning them into diehard, single-issue voters, and focus on how the vast majority of Americans will be better off financially if you’re elected. 

[aggie08 21495]

16 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

And in solidly blue or red states, a huge disincentive to vote, if you align w/ the opposition. 

It's a huge disincentive to vote either way. Why go out to vote when you guys already has it in the bag? And if your vote doesn't really count for the biggest election in the country, I personally find that it's a lot harder to care and spend time researching all of the smaller issues and seats. The electoral college absolutely causes trickle down voter apathy.