Where Do Democrats Go From Here

[LABEVO 928]

 

[Gourmand 7774]

22 minutes ago, softlynow said:

 

Because they don't know what to fear. They think socialism means less stuff for them

I think Florida gave Dems the path to future victory: buy people's votes the way Trump did. Put pocketbook issues front and center. Not "health care," not "job training," not "social safety net." Whether it's direct payments Yang-style, or making Amazon have a processing center in every county or incorporated city, or promising contract military jobs to EVERYONE.oldman.gif, promise the economic moon. If Pubs are going all in on racism from here, go overboard on what you should be good at.

If they're calling you socialist, and the rurals see you promising them economic relief/benefit, maybe that word won't be so scary after a while.

nah that's giving way too much credit to the American electorate of moronic mouth-breathers. they don't care about anything but their red jersey football team. MURKA MURKA DURR DURR

[Nice Guy Eddie 13391]

Trump is the perfect con man in that he repeats himself long enough, and if enough people do not listen to dissenting opinions, his statements become fact.  Many of his supporters think he's delivered on every 2016 promise and that he's accomplished more than every President.  I don't know how you convince people that they're being lied to when they want to believe lies. Some people are lost causes.

The Dems need to realize that the midwest is going Red. Just as IA and MO used to be purple states that went red, that is the future for WI, MI and maybe PA. Philly and Pittsburgh may keep it purple longer. And at some point, Dems may lose MN.

NC should ultimately follow VA blue but they may stay purple for a while. 

And the Dems need to find a Hispanic candidate not named Castro in Texas.  Dems have to find a way to appeal to the Valley to just get them to vote at the state average turnout. Sending Harris down there for 1 hour isn't enough.

[wildcat09 29187]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Trump is the perfect con man in that he repeats himself long enough, and if enough people do not listen to dissenting opinions, his statements become fact.  Many of his supporters think he's delivered on every 2016 promise and that he's accomplished more than every President.  I don't know how you convince people that they're being lied to when they want to believe lies. Some people are lost causes.

The Dems need to realize that the midwest is going Red. Just as IA and MO used to be purple states that went red, that is the future for WI, MI and maybe PA. Philly and Pittsburgh may keep it purple longer. And at some point, Dems may lose MN.

NC should ultimately follow VA blue but they may stay purple for a while. 

And the Dems need to find a Hispanic candidate not named Castro in Texas.  Dems have to find a way to appeal to the Valley to just get them to vote at the state average turnout. Sending Harris down there for 1 hour isn't enough.

First step is trying to.

[softlynow 1774]

9 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

nah that's giving way too much credit to the American electorate of moronic mouth-breathers. they don't care about anything but their red jersey football team. MURKA MURKA DURR DURR

This attitude is silly. You can pout in the corner, and mumble "elections are hard," or you can work the problem. Considering social justice paired with a tepid pocketbook platform has gotten Dems where we are, it's time for a rework. You have to at least re-package an re-brand your economic relief. Lot's of the folks you write off don't prioritize health care, maybe because they're relatively healthy. Plenty don't care that you want a more robust safety net, may because they're prideful about assistance, they simply want to work good jobs.

Sure some are unreachable because of god and gays. But the folks written off as simply racist, may just look at the party that goes out of it's way on black issues, and says, "great, but I'm in poverty and the other guys says the plant is coming back."

The "Dems are stupid" reaction is partly correct. They have compromised who they are too much. The need for Third Way Dems has passed. It's time for progressive economic ideas to come to the fore, and pair that with a muted messaging on social issues. Support the latter, but emphasize raising up ALL of the lower and middle class over issues that, in reality, the march of time will take care of.

[pacman 7309]

It all begins with amending the constitution to nullify citizens United.

They need to push it again.

That will generate nothing but great press and a lot of pressure on McConnell.

Edited November 4, 2020 by pacman

[G650 13990]

33 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

that is the future for WI, MI

Strong disagree on MI. It's turning more blue actually by county.

[pacman 7309]

35 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

the Dems need to find a Hispanic candidate not named Castro in Texas.  Dems have to find a way to appeal to the Valley to just get them to vote at the state average turnout. Sending Harris down there for 1 hour isn't enough.

It's more than finding one candidate. Democrats need to push inclusion of latinos everywhere. Latinos feel underrepresented by both parties.

 

And, if you have been to the valley, you know sending a black woman for an hour was a slap in the face.

I know everyone wants to talk about the white racists who support Trump but valley latinos can be just as strong in that department.

Only way to overcome that is to make them feel like family.

Edited November 4, 2020 by pacman

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

1 hour ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Where do democrats go from here?

I think the Democratic Presidency will be the flip side of the Republican Presidency we've had the last 4 years:

1) Partisan, bitter divide in both the government and the public

2) Nothing really gets done/approved/passed in a gridlock, outside of executive orders

3) A vocal minority of ANTI-BIDEN spawns up on this website and dominates the CR.

4) There is a Red Wave in 2022

5) It's a close win by GOP in 2024

 

I, for one, welcome the perpetual motion of the pendulum swinging.

And spare me with the progressive far-left needs more oxygen; Warren, Bernie, etc. would have been boat raced in this election and would have ushered in a 2nd Trump term-- Democrats, and American's at large, owe the change here to the adults in the room that propped up Biden as he was the only path.

Red wave in 2022 still sees the GOP losing seats in the senate. It’s a terrible map for them. It’s the antithesis of 2018 where the Dems just dominated everywhere and lost a couple seats in the senate bc it was the worst senate map ever. 

[Dbeasy 14953]

No, they do not. That is the fucking problem. Most of the people voting for Trump are going to get fucked by his agenda.

They think they they are voting for self interest but aren’t smart enough to realize they aren’t.

[WBT 20397]

1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I know it won't happen, but if/when Biden wins this election, they need to publicly state that we should abolish the electoral college. 

The reality is it's a massive deterrent to positive change in this country. 

Why would small states that agreed to join the union contingent upon the electoral college (and two senators per state) ever agree to that?

[Wiler77 1555]

1 hour ago, Burt Macklin said:

Back off social issues like abortion and gun control, which just add fuel to the GOP’s decades-growing foothold of riling up voters over social issues and turning them into diehard, single-issue voters, and focus on how the vast majority of Americans will be better off financially if you’re elected. 

Just piling on at this point, but at the bus stop this morning, I had a short exchange with a late 30's, early 40's woman.  This was her statement:

“I know Trump is completely amoral and misogynistic and lies about everything, but the guy knows how to run a business, and he’s good for the economy and my bank account”.

There are multiple layers of lunacy to that statement, but it's pretty clear there are voters who literally don't give a shit about anything other than what they perceive is the financial benefit for getting their vote.

[pacman 7309]

3 minutes ago, WBT said:

Why would small states that agreed to join the union contingent upon the electoral college (and two senators per state) ever agree to that?

Wouldn't it make more sense to move away from the "all or nothing" EC that Jefferson put in place to ensure his victory in Virginia? Go back to Districts like NE.

[Hank Scorpio 17712]

Dems need to quit being pussies and actually start fighting back. Last night inspired me to join a local ISIS cell and I pledge to take Dan Crenshaw’s remaining eye. Join me in paradise brothers!  Inshallah. 

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

12 minutes ago, WBT said:

Why would small states that agreed to join the union contingent upon the electoral college (and two senators per state) ever agree to that?

The electoral college was a compromise between people that wanted a popular vote and others who wanted Congress to pick the President. A big reason why they didn't want to do a popular vote is because news travelled much more slowly 200+ years ago while they were shitting in pots and owning slaves. 

Also, we haven't passed a meaningful Constitutional amendment in almost 50 years. 

Adapt or die. 

 

[tantric superman 4667]

2 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

only way to get the Jesus freaks is to go all in on abortion bans

There is no reason in the world that people should be frozen out of the party just for being pro-life or radically 2nd Amendment types.  If they believe in economic issues like progressive taxation, minimum wage hikes, affordable health care, they should be invited into the tent. 

If Dems want union members to vote for them, Dems need to invite them in, whether they are Catholic and prochoice or whether they like deer hunting.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13391]

29 minutes ago, Wiler77 said:

Just piling on at this point, but at the bus stop this morning, I had a short exchange with a late 30's, early 40's woman.  This was her statement:

“I know Trump is completely amoral and misogynistic and lies about everything, but the guy knows how to run a business, and he’s good for the economy and my bank account”.

There are multiple layers of lunacy to that statement, but it's pretty clear there are voters who literally don't give a shit about anything other than what they perceive is the financial benefit for getting their vote.

In 2016, Democrats allowed the GOP to sell the message that Trump is a good businessman and the US needs a good businessman to run the govt and economy. There is no evidence that the skills cross over between a CEO and an Executive Branch leader.  Sure some leadership traits should work as both, but a businessman has different goals from a govt leader. 

[tantric superman 4667]

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Sure some leadership traits should work as both, but a businessman has different goals from a govt leader. 

Well, apparently Trump has disproven that theory. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21022]

14 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

There is no reason in the world that people should be frozen out of the party just for being pro-life or radically 2nd Amendment types.  If they believe in economic issues like progressive taxation, minimum wage hikes, affordable health care, they should be invited into the tent. 

If Dems want union members to vote for them, Dems need to invite them in, whether they are Catholic and prochoice or whether they like deer hunting.

don't disagree.  See if they'll hop on the bus. 

[Tom 2959]

2 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

 

And spare me with the progressive far-left needs more oxygen; Warren, Bernie, etc. would have been boat raced in this election and would have ushered in a 2nd Trump term-- Democrats, and American's at large, owe the change here to the adults in the room that propped up Biden as he was the only path.

 

This keeps getting repeated on this board and it's based on nothing but conjecture.  Nobody knows how the election would turn out with a different candidate.  Regardless of how it ends, everyone was wrong about how Biden would turn out.

 

[LW Goatman 1117]

4 minutes ago, Tom said:

 

This keeps getting repeated on this board and it's based on nothing but conjecture...Regardless of how it ends, everyone was wrong about how Biden would turn out.

 

That's a know your audience type thing. 

[Nivek 16808]

Stop pussyfooting around.  Slander the opposition, point out their failure and hammer it home.  It isn't about discourse, it is about sales and branding.  You have to appeal to idiots.  Trump wants more drilling in Alaska and celebrates low gas prices while the industry is fucked, and our idiotic Texans think this is the guy to fix it.  

MJ's campaign was awful.  Nice production value, but her campaign looked like she was trying to lose and the focus was her having fun taking photos/videos.    Crenshaw put out a good ad, it was full of lies, but it was a good ad.  Sima's ads were horrible.    We have massive job losses, massive debt,  high death rates, and out idiotic candidates let the republicans frame the argument.  25% of the world's deaths.     How they fucked this up is incredible.  

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

And in solidly blue or red states, a huge disincentive to vote, if you align w/ the opposition. 

what is solidly blue or red?  Biden carried 21 out of 254 counties in Texas.

[DigglerontheHoof 21022]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

what is solidly blue or red?  Biden carried 21 out of 254 counties in Texas.

Solid blue:

NY, California, Illinois, Oregon, etc.

Solid red:

Texas, Indiana, Louisiana, Oklahoma, etc.

Not sure what's confusing

[tantric superman 4667]

4 minutes ago, slorch said:

what is solidly blue or red?  Biden carried 21 out of 254 counties in Texas.

Yeah, but they were the inhabitable counties.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

22 minutes ago, Tom said:

 

This keeps getting repeated on this board and it's based on nothing but conjecture.  Nobody knows how the election would turn out with a different candidate.  Regardless of how it ends, everyone was wrong about how Biden would turn out.

 

I feel the exact same way about the conjecture that the COVID-19 response under Hillary would have been better, saved more lives, etc. Nobody knows in what ways and how she. might have mismanaged it, just as you posit nobody knows for a fact that Bernie would have been landslided, but that doesn't make it any less probable or reasonably expected, in both cases.

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1291]

The democrats need to hope a lot of the people who are coming out in droves to support Trump go back to not voting when he goes away. Nothing they do, and nothing Trump does, matters at all to any of these people. They don't read or watch the news, and don't believe you if you tell them the news. They are completely unaware of any of Trump's or Biden's policies on anything. A lot of them do believe the Q stuff, so maybe the democrats could attract some of them by launching weird, anonymous online conspiracy theories about republicans and the catholic church or something. They aren't attracting any of these people with anything remotely based on reality, though.

[C-Man 26992]

7 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

The democrats need to hope a lot of the people who are coming out in droves to support Trump go back to not voting when he goes away. Nothing they do, and nothing Trump does, matters at all to any of these people. They don't read or watch the news, and don't believe you if you tell them the news. They are completely unaware of any of Trump's or Biden's policies on anything. A lot of them do believe the Q stuff, so maybe the democrats could attract some of them by launching weird, anonymous online conspiracy theories about republicans and the catholic church or something. They aren't attracting any of these people with anything remotely based on reality, though.

[CfRhTxStBobcats 600]

7 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 “Maybe democrats need to be more racist?”

-Chuck Todd, TV pundit.

Racism, racism, racism...lots of racist Latinos out there I guess. Especially the Republican Latinos that won seats in the house.

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

I don't consider myself a Democrat. I don't give a shit about party affiliation. Schumer, Pelosi, Feinstein, etc. all need to fucking retire. There were 6-10 other candidates I preferred over Joe Biden.

But the Democratic Party has won the popular vote in 4 straight elections, and 7 out of the last 8 elections. The party has moved left (maybe too slowly for some) in recent years. Meanwhile, the GOP has bent the knee to a game show con man, become the party of science deniers, and is about to be taken over by QAnon. And here we are asking about what went wrong with the Democratic Party. What a world. 

All of our problems can be traced back to basic structural flaws in America that have gotten worse over time. Capitalism over democracy. Me over you. Minority over majority. 

In the short term, yes, the Democrats can play dirty and take control of government if they are willing to play the game. But that's a short term fix with long term disaster written all over it. The foundation has to be re-built. And the quickest way that happens is getting younger people elected and in positions of power. 

 

 

[StassneyHorn 6534]

How you squander 100+ million dollars on two Senate races in Kentucky and South Carolina, without directing that to different state legislatures and their candidates in a redistricting year with the highest turnout EVAR is unforgivable. That was a run on a sentence, point stands

[troph 24548]

Red wave in 2022 still sees the GOP losing seats in the senate. It’s a terrible map for them. It’s the antithesis of 2018 where the Dems just dominated everywhere and lost a couple seats in the senate bc it was the worst senate map ever. 

I hope you’re right. Dems IMO need 2 years to pass some basic legislation to cement some non-negotiables to right the BS of GOP senate control the last many years. And this would give Joe 2 years to make his case.

[Zonahorn 8079]

6 hours ago, softlynow said:

This attitude is silly. You can pout in the corner, and mumble "elections are hard," or you can work the problem. Considering social justice paired with a tepid pocketbook platform has gotten Dems where we are, it's time for a rework. You have to at least re-package an re-brand your economic relief. Lot's of the folks you write off don't prioritize health care, maybe because they're relatively healthy. Plenty don't care that you want a more robust safety net, may because they're prideful about assistance, they simply want to work good jobs.

Sure some are unreachable because of god and gays. But the folks written off as simply racist, may just look at the party that goes out of it's way on black issues, and says, "great, but I'm in poverty and the other guys says the plant is coming back."

The "Dems are stupid" reaction is partly correct. They have compromised who they are too much. The need for Third Way Dems has passed. It's time for progressive economic ideas to come to the fore, and pair that with a muted messaging on social issues. Support the latter, but emphasize raising up ALL of the lower and middle class over issues that, in reality, the march of time will take care of.

There was an old socialist Jew that espoused exactly this

[PRONG HORN 3108]

12 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

 

Trump has a cult following from a massive group of uninformed voters

 

 

This is both sides.  Always.  

[Mole 4318]

8 hours ago, tantric superman said:

Dems need to open the tent to Jesus freaks and redneck whites and focus on economic issues.  They allowed republicans to sucker them into the culture wars and now its going to be hell getting out of them.  I'm not sure it's possible.

There’s a perception, and it has some merit, that the left is antagonistic towards faith issues. I think that’s part of how you have the disconnect of the degenerate Trump seen as the pro-religion president and the man of faith Biden seen as part an anti-faith socialist plot. It’s nuts how it plays out, but there’s a considerable portion of the left that seems pretty antagonistic towards faith, even if it seems like too much of that faith is one that seeks to oppress.

8 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

only way to get the Jesus freaks is to go all in on abortion bans

Maybe, but lots of healthcare issues could be reprioritized as pro-life measures. Unfortunately, I think there’s an element of the pro-choice movement that sees anything anti-abortion as some forced birth Trojan horse (they might be right).
 

If the Ds pushed healthcare and the economic safety net as a route to deal with the social ills that lead to abortion, maybe you could break up this block. They currently try make the case, but it’s a bit of an afterthought.
 

I think there might be ways to build legislation that’s more focused on dealing with minimizing and humanely dealing with crisis pregnancies. There’s a pro-life way that doesn’t really touch abortion, but it doesn’t really exist in American politics right now. It isn’t simply a marketing/branding issue, but one of priorities and focus. 
 

My wife and I both voted straight ticket D, but the abortion issue definitely causes some mental tension. Most evangelical endorsements of Trump were, “he’s the terrible — the worst really — but abortion (and socialism).” There’s a way to take the wind out of those sails and actually do some good. There used to be pro-life Democrats.

[cactusflinthead 27593]

Going to leave this here for later. 

We, the Democrats, have a lot of work to do. We're better than we were, but there is a long way to go. 

 

[TwiceHorn 31184]

In my Utopia, the Democratic Party would go ahead and go pretty left.   Not Social Democrat left, but on the left end of the mainstream.

This, then, would leave the center for another party of reasonable persons in favor of measured progression.  I.e. conservatives.

And it would leave the current GOP to whatever it's going to make of itself. hopefully marginalization and destruction on the altar of Trumpism.

This is naive, of course, because it would be a three-party system, but think of the opportunities for actual progress resulting from compromise between the left and center parties building coaltions to defeat the GOP.

I'll put away my lube and cumrag now.

[Nivek 16808]

I don't consider myself a Democrat. I don't give a shit about party affiliation. Schumer, Pelosi, Feinstein, etc. all need to fucking retire. There were 6-10 other candidates I preferred over Joe Biden.
But the Democratic Party has won the popular vote in 4 straight elections, and 7 out of the last 8 elections. The party has moved left (maybe too slowly for some) in recent years. Meanwhile, the GOP has bent the knee to a game show con man, become the party of science deniers, and is about to be taken over by QAnon. And here we are asking about what went wrong with the Democratic Party. What a world. 
All of our problems can be traced back to basic structural flaws in America that have gotten worse over time. Capitalism over democracy. Me over you. Minority over majority. 
In the short term, yes, the Democrats can play dirty and take control of government if they are willing to play the game. But that's a short term fix with long term disaster written all over it. The foundation has to be re-built. And the quickest way that happens is getting younger people elected and in positions of power. 
 
 

Youth isn’t some magic solution. Senior leadership is great, combined with youth and mid-career guys is the way to go.

Look at the 25 yr old that just won, the idiot couldn’t even go a day without tweeting something stupid.
We don’t need more of that.

[Nivek 16808]

In my Utopia, the Democratic Party would go ahead and go pretty left.   Not Social Democrat left, but on the left end of the mainstream.
This, then, would leave the center for another party of reasonable persons in favor of measured progression.  I.e. conservatives.
And it would leave the current GOP to whatever it's going to make of itself. hopefully marginalization and destruction on the altar of Trumpism.
This is naive, of course, because it would be a three-party system, but think of the opportunities for actual progress resulting from compromise between the left and center parties building coaltions to defeat the GOP.
I'll put away my lube and cumrag now.

Democrats are already centrists for the most part.

[softlynow 1774]

1 hour ago, Zonahorn said:

There was an old socialist Jew that espoused exactly this

Get a youngish black guy to do it next time. Or Gavin Newsome. 

[Snake Diggity 4614]

This election solidified my opinion that the country is still very racist.  If the Democrats want to have success over the next 10-15 years, they need to shift the conversation away from race and toward class.  They need to figure out how to merge movements like BLM into a more general conversation about wealth inequality resulting in legislation for increased minimum wages, universal healthcare, increased subsidization for home ownership, and further subsidized college, as I think there is broad support for all of those things, even in rural areas.  They should abandon losing conversations around gun control and abortion.  Climate change can be a winner if they reframe it as a means to reduce unemployment and make established energy economies more sustainable and profitable.

With the current voter spread social issues are a mirage that tanks.  People are voting with economic prosperity as their overriding priority.

[pacman 7309]

7 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Dems need to quit being pussies and actually start fighting back. Last night inspired me to join a local ISIS cell and I pledge to take Dan Crenshaw’s remaining eye. Join me in paradise brothers!  Inshallah. 

Can we decrease the number of virgins in the after life? I don't need that many women in my life. It would be hell.

[pacman 7309]

41 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

In my Utopia, the Democratic Party would go ahead and go pretty left.   Not Social Democrat left, but on the left end of the mainstream.

This, then, would leave the center for another party of reasonable persons in favor of measured progression.  I.e. conservatives.

And it would leave the current GOP to whatever it's going to make of itself. hopefully marginalization and destruction on the altar of Trumpism.

This is naive, of course, because it would be a three-party system, but think of the opportunities for actual progress resulting from compromise between the left and center parties building coaltions to defeat the GOP.

I'll put away my lube and cumrag now.

I think we should have four parties.

Left,

Left Central,

Right Central,

Right.

[Treefidy 1463]

10 hours ago, Pancho said:

See my post from yesterday and previously on this website, but establishment Dems have got to get the fuck out. 

Pelose

Feinstein

Schumer

Waters

EBJ

SJL

Blumenthal

Leahy

 

Both sides, what we really needs is term limits.  People are tired of life long politicians who pass pork stuffed bills that spend more money on special interests and self enrichment than on the country itself.  

that’s how an assclown got elected, he ran against a career politician who made $250M since leaving the White House.  Yeah I know Bill did well after office but it just doesn’t seem legitimate he made a quarter billion giving speeches. 
 

I started voting 3rd party in college when I stumbled across a book (yeah, those paper things we used to have to check out) while studying at the PCL, it’s was a genealogical account called “Ancestors of American Presidents” by Jeff Boyd Roberts of the New England Genealogical Society.  When I figured out all the presidents were related I said fuck it, I’ll vote outside the family lines.  

[SilasCoade 2620]

11 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I am right of you, but fairly socially liberal or indifferent. I abhor Trump worse. However I will never vote for a guy that literally will cost me money in ‘22. So I won’t vote because we have two buffoons running. If you want me, stick to the economy. 

you're an asshole.

[BradInATX 9208]

7 minutes ago, Llogg said:

you're an asshole.

He's said "if you want me yada yada" like five times now. He really wants someone to want him.

[berlinerbaer 670]

7 hours ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

The democrats need to hope a lot of the people who are coming out in droves to support Trump go back to not voting when he goes away. Nothing they do, and nothing Trump does, matters at all to any of these people. They don't read or watch the news, and don't believe you if you tell them the news. They are completely unaware of any of Trump's or Biden's policies on anything. A lot of them do believe the Q stuff, so maybe the democrats could attract some of them by launching weird, anonymous online conspiracy theories about republicans and the catholic church or something. They aren't attracting any of these people with anything remotely based on reality, though.

This. Many people on both sides simply don't want to admit just how good Donald Trump was in driving turnout among his supporters and translating that to the rest of the GOP ticket. All of us were floored by the turnout nationwide but lots of us mistakenly believed it was predominately on the Dem side.

I don't think Dem enthusiasm dipped much, if any, compared to 2018. Losses among some minorities, although a  clear warning sign, were replaced by gains among white suburbanites and older voters. The uptick in GOP turnout due to Trump being on the ballot was more than enough to beat back a possible blue wave and regain control of gerrymandered congressional and state house districts. The notion that he was a drag on candidates down ballot simply wasn't true.

We need to put Biden's pending win over Trump into some perspective. I think time will tell us that it was no small feat.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Like, how do you even have a rational conversation with people like this? Much less win their votes?

[TwiceHorn 31184]

Quote

In the society of pure spectacle, aesthetics drive every form of allegiance, whether consumer or political.

That is one pithy, insightful sentence.  Holy shit.

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

2 hours ago, pacman said:

I think we should have four parties.

Left,

Left Central,

Right Central,

Right.

That’d be awesome if we had a proportional system. We don’t so it cannot ever happen. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Wulaw Horn