Where Do Democrats Go From Here

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

5 hours ago, Nivek said:

Youth isn’t some magic solution. Senior leadership is great, combined with youth and mid-career guys is the way to go.

Look at the 25 yr old that just won, the idiot couldn’t even go a day without tweeting something stupid.
We don’t need more of that.

I'm not talking about nominating recent college grads. Schumer, Pelosi, and Feinstein are DINOSAURS and have been in elected office forever. They are senior members that should be retired by now, not leading the party.  They are relics of the past that shouldn't be deciding the future.

We need more Katie Porters and AOCs. People entering their political prime that are eager, intelligent, and challenging norms and institutions. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

I’ve seen a lot of talk in this thread that Democrats need to do more to reach “working folks” and need to focus more on an economic message.

How does that square with this reality?

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19074]

For Texas, build the state party back up. The fact that without that, shitstains like Dan Patrick will continue to have too much sway.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

I’ve seen a lot of talk in this thread that Democrats need to do more to reach “working folks” and need to focus more on an economic message.

How does that square with this reality?
 

stop believing exit polls, for one thing...( not you, but the party leadership.  It's like smelling their own farts and then wondering why everyone else doesn't want to take a whiff...)

Edited November 5, 2020 by slorch

[Firemans4Horn 17792]

Exit polls have almost no value yet. 2/3 of voters voted early or by mail. So a lot of post-mortem re-weighting needs to be done to give them any meaning. 
 

 

[WBT 20397]

11 hours ago, Treefidy said:

People are tired of life long politicians who pass pork stuffed bills that spend more money on special interests and self enrichment than on the country itself.  

Yet somehow they keep winning re-election 

[Bojack 2073]

For 2022, Democrats should make a minimum wage increase our primary issue.  Make it a national issue by promising that we will pass an increase if we win the Senate which is likely to be Mitched the fuck up for the next 2 years.  More importantly, get it on the ballot wherever we can and have our candidates tie themselves to those ballot initiatives as much as possible.  Also, weed.  People like weed.  Put it on the ballot.  

[squeegeedegg 723]

As long as the military is worshipped in this country, from an immediate numbers perspective there's not much can be done other than appeal to right wingers.  Most of them would love left leaning policies but have been conditioned to overvalue right wing symbolism, flag, god, jets in formation, tacticool gear

On the other hand, dems need to lean into a little more populism and much less of the affluent suburbanite schtick

The great divider in this country is money not skin color or ethnic background.  Trump's lowest point among his supporters was the trillions in tax cuts to the wealthy, not his handling of covid or anything else.  The bulk of his base are not traditional Republicans and dislike the economic policies pushed by conservative economic libertarians from within the GOP.  Dems transforming themselves into an economic left party would tear at the seams of the Republican coalition.  Of course, they're more likely to keep shifting to the economic right, chasing lincoln project grifters rather than the millions of people in this country desperate for help

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, WBT said:

Yet somehow they keep winning re-election 

This.

vote better.  Regardless of party.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Bojack said:

For 2022, Democrats should make a minimum wage increase our primary issue.  Make it a national issue by promising that we will pass an increase if we win the Senate which is likely to be Mitched the fuck up for the next 2 years.  More importantly, get it on the ballot wherever we can and have our candidates tie themselves to those ballot initiatives as much as possible.  Also, weed.  People like weed.  Put it on the ballot.  

Minimum wage doesn’t appeal to me at all.  In fact it’s a huge turnoff. Minimum wage should be for entry level jobs.  You’re supporting a family?  Welp, take on more responsibility and increase your pay.

Increased minimum wage decreases job opportunity and/ or increases consumer costs.   The funds don’t just magically appear from rainbows and unicorns.

[Dbeasy 14953]

IMO the biggest impact Democrats can make is by simply revamping all of their messaging and kicking out the old lightning rod people in the party like Pelosi. Don’t re-elect her as speaker. Just don’t. Bring in fresh new leadership.

[squeegeedegg 723]

5 minutes ago, slorch said:

Minimum wage doesn’t appeal to me at all.  In fact it’s a huge turnoff. Minimum wage should be for entry level jobs.  You’re supporting a family?  Welp, take on more responsibility and increase your pay.

Increased minimum wage decreases job opportunity and/ or increases consumer costs.   The funds don’t just magically appear from rainbows and unicorns.

[G650 13990]

6 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

I’ve seen a lot of talk in this thread that Democrats need to do more to reach “working folks” and need to focus more on an economic message.

How does that square with this reality?
 

Because that is massively misleading "analysis".

 

It's not about taking the meat of those people, it's about cleaving off the margin to build a durable coalition.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, squeegeedegg said:

Math bothers you?  Or was it the responsibility piece?

[squeegeedegg 723]

Just now, slorch said:

Math bothers you?  Or was it the responsibility piece?

Out of touch

[DigglerontheHoof 21022]

54 minutes ago, WBT said:

Yet somehow they keep winning re-election 

People are tired of everyone else's reps, not their own. 

[Wally Pryor 5240]

18 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

MJ was a decent candidate with absolutely horrific Dukakis-esque ads. 

The biggest upside to this god-awful election being over are the end of the even more god-awful Hegar ads.  Motorcycles, tats, weight lifting, bratty kids, more motorcycles and a Beta husband have run their course for the rest of humanity, at least as far as political ad space goes.

$10MM - $15MM well spent, indeed. 

[WBT 20397]

11 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

The biggest upside to this god-awful election being over are the end of the even more god-awful Hegar ads.  Motorcycles, tats, weight lifting, bratty kids, more motorcycles and a Beta husband have run their course for the rest of humanity, at least as far as political ad space goes.

$10MM - $15MM well spent, indeed. 

Won't someone think of the helicopters?!?!

[Nivek 16808]

IMO the biggest impact Democrats can make is by simply revamping all of their messaging and kicking out the old lightning rod people in the party like Pelosi. Don’t re-elect her as speaker. Just don’t. Bring in fresh new leadership.

Yeah, we should turn on our own because rush Limbaugh said she was a shithead. We don’t miss Al Franken at all. You gonna let OU pick the Texas roster too?

[StassneyHorn 6534]

35 minutes ago, squeegeedegg said:

Out of touch

It’s the curse of Econ 101 courses

[Guest]

1 hour ago, squeegeedegg said:

Out of touch

Not at all.  I live it every day.

FTR, my company has been hiring for entry level positions that start at $17-18/ hr with openings for the past 4 years straight.  We’ve been adding jobs, but it’s challenging AF to find people who want to do the work, with a very competitive benefits package and opportunity for advancement.

The wages aren’t the problem.  Some People just don’t want to go that hard, which is fine, but minimum wage should not remotely be a factor for a grown ass adult seeking real employment. Creating jobs is more important than focusing on increasing minimum wage.

That’s not to say the increase doesn’t appeal to the Dems’ base.  That isn’t what this thread is about, however.

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by slorch

[NoRagrets 1125]

Answer is pretty obvious based on the last two presidential elections and their primaries. The voting populace in the swing states want populism and inclusiveness, not progressive/socialist eco policy and intersectionality.

Look at the repudiation of Hillary in 2016 by the working class. Look at the house seats flipping red in 2020. And Biden barely winning against a populist president because he explicitly did not run on progressive policies and distanced himself from the AOC crowd once the general got underway. Also I think this election is a lot more decisive for the dem populist if he doesn’t botch the fracking narrative. Politics 101 - never ever talk about ending an industry that provides a lot of high paying jobs for working class people.

Dems, you should start taking traditional coastal states for granted and start focusing on the flyovers.

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

8 minutes ago, NoRagrets said:

Politics 101 - never ever talk about ending an industry that provides a lot of high paying jobs for working class people.

Dems, you should start taking traditional coastal states for granted and start focusing on the flyovers.

Yep yep yep. The GOP just isn’t going to win on the coasts. The Dems, I’d they had half a brain, should tell them to sit back, shut up, find the thing to make it happen, and then they will govern as absolutely liberally as they can get away with and win elections. 

[TXSG8R 3355]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

Minimum wage doesn’t appeal to me at all.  In fact it’s a huge turnoff. Minimum wage should be for entry level jobs.  You’re supporting a family?  Welp, take on more responsibility and increase your pay.

Increased minimum wage decreases job opportunity and/ or increases consumer costs.   The funds don’t just magically appear from rainbows and unicorns.

Tell me more about this massive number of jobs that pay more than minimum wage that people could pull themselves up by their boostraps for.   

[SilasCoade 2620]

Minimum wage is a dead end. Universal basic income is the way forward. The left needs to take ownership of the pejorative that the right has made"socialism" into. Point out that the few socialist programs in place are wildly popular -- Medicare, social security. Point out that when progressive policies end up on ballot measures they are successful more often than not. Iow, separating ideas from identity leads to more people aligning with the left.

[We’reTexas 1467]

12 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Yes, I want my president chosen by Californian and New York groupthink. If you abolish the electoral college, this is how you increase voter turnout by those apathetic to bad situations, and those feeling forced to vote. 

Yes, absolutely agree. Love having my president chosen this groupthink. 
 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Tell me more about this massive number of jobs that pay more than minimum wage that people could pull themselves up by their boostraps for.   

Tell me about all of the small businesses that have $1000/week for their part time labor that will keep hours constant with a forced wage increase.

Again, not trying to change your platform.  Just offering feedback. 

[G650 13990]

3 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Universal basic income is the way forward.

100%

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Yes, I want my president chosen by Californian and New York groupthink. If you abolish the electoral college, this is how you increase voter turnout by those apathetic to bad situations, and those feeling forced to vote. 

Agreed. It isn’t blue states vs red states. It’s blue cities vs every state

[TXSG8R 3355]

6 minutes ago, slorch said:

Tell me about all of the small businesses that have $1000/week for their part time labor that will keep hours constant with a forced wage increase.

Again, not trying to change your platform.  Just offering feedback. 

Not my platform, it’s just math. What you’re offering is a false choice. X number of workers won’t ever equal x number of jobs above minimum wage, no matter how hard people want it or try. There is a fractional number of jobs that pay above minimum wage. The rest of the workers are stuck taking jobs at the bottom for a variety of factors. Those jobs should pay a living wage. $7.25 isn’t it. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Yeah this 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Not my platform, it’s just math. What you’re offering is a false choice. X number of workers won’t ever equal x number of jobs above minimum wage, no matter how hard people want it or try. There is a fractional number of jobs that pay above minimum wage. The rest of the workers are stuck taking jobs at the bottom for a variety of factors. Those jobs should pay a living wage. $7.25 isn’t it. 

BS.   Most real jobs pay more than minimum wage.

minimum wage isn’t meant to be a ‘liveable wage.’

again, if you’re trying to appeal to non- dems, this ain’t the way.

Edited November 5, 2020 by slorch

[G650 13990]

6 minutes ago, slorch said:

Most real jobs pay more than minimum wage.

There aren't enough of these to go around is the point.

 

Edit: And the amount is rapidly shrinking.

Edited November 5, 2020 by G650

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, G650 said:

There aren't enough of these to go around is the point.

 

Edit: And the amount is rapidly shrinking.

It’s my experience that they are readily available. That’s weird as hell that y’all can’t find a fucking job. Maybe we should open our businesses back up

[G650 13990]

Just now, slorch said:

It’s my experience that they are readily available.

It doesn't matter what your experience is. The data is readily available.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, G650 said:

It doesn't matter what your experience is. The data is readily available.

How many grown ass adults do you know that make minimum fucking wage. It is virtually fucking zero

[G650 13990]

Just now, slorch said:

How many grown ass adults do you know that make minimum fucking wage. It is virtually fucking zero

Uh, quite a large number are under the $15 proposals which is generally accepted as the minimum to survive, and what we are effectively paying people when you add in government assistance. Construction laborers start at about 12/Hr

 

There's a basic number to pay bills and get food and shelter in the US, and people get that one way or another, either from their employer or from your taxes.

 

[Guest]

Just mandate $50,000 a year salary for every employee across the country. As long as were dealing with fucking magic…

 

create jobs.  Not false wages.

Edited November 5, 2020 by slorch

[G650 13990]

9 minutes ago, slorch said:

create jobs.

Jobs are going to be destroyed at an ever advancing pace. That is the point.

 

Unless you position is to bring back the stagecoach builders union or whale boat captains guild.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/11/the-2020-election-result-completely-discredits-the-democratic-leadership

[TXSG8R 3355]

48 minutes ago, slorch said:

BS.   Most real jobs pay more than minimum wage.

minimum wage isn’t meant to be a ‘liveable wage.’

again, if you’re trying to appeal to non- dems, this ain’t the way.

Quote

Low-wage jobs represent between one-third to two-thirds of all jobs in the country's almost 400 metropolitan areas, Brookings found. Smaller cities in the South and West tend to have the highest share, such as Las Cruces, New Mexico, and Jacksonville, North Carolina, where more than 60% of workers are low-wage.

But not only small cities in the South and West have a high proportion of low-paid jobs, the Brookings authors noted.

"Places with some of the highest wages and most productive economies are home to large numbers of low-wage workers: nearly one million in the Washington, D.C., region, 700,000 each in Boston and San Francisco, and 560,000 in Seattle," Ross and Bateman wrote. 

But, they added, the issue can't entirely be addressed by improving workers' skills, since low-wage jobs reflect the strength of a local economy. Recent research suggests "there simply are not enough jobs paying decent wages for people without college degrees (who make up the majority of the labor force) to escape low-wage work," they wrote. 

And Ill put the closer in its own quote so you dont miss it.  

Quote

In other words, even if low-wage workers undergo job training and learn new skills, they're not guaranteed to find good-paying jobs anywhere near where they currently live.

So what makes a good job? Simply put, middle-class wages and benefits like health insurance, according to previous research from Brookings. But only about 30 million Americans have good jobs by that definition — and most of those are held by workers with college degrees, it found. 

The reality is that Americans are working but aren't earning enough to gain stable economic footings. As Ross and Bateman noted, "Nearly half of all workers earn wages that are not enough, on their own, to promote economic security."

source

42% of American workers make less than $15 an hour.  

source

Ony 32% of jobs pay enough to be considered middle class after COLA.

Source

Your anecdotal evidence doesn't align with reality.  I have similar discussions all the time with guys running residential construction trades.  Owner of a local garage door place has been trying to hire people for a year.  "If they have a pulse and a truck Ill hire them", but is struggling to maintain a work force.  The catch?  He hires them as independent contractors and pays them per job.  They have to have a truck to haul trailers full of garage door shit to install, which increases wear on their personal vehicles for a mediocre wage.  Shockingly, he cant keep people hired.  Electricians struggle to keep people hired here.  The wage per hour sucks, they can go work at in-n-out for $15 an hour, steady hours, and get benefits.  

In fairness to you, most of the above is above minimum wage.  That's because minimum wage is largely untenable.  $15 an hour is at or below a living wage depending on COLA (~$31k a year).  You're peddling bullshit that there are enough jobs for people to just climb up to that will pay them "real" wages.  Its mathematically impossible for a lot of the same reasons youre worried about raising the minimum wage.  You cant pay everyone real wages without affecting employment.  So you know there will be low wage jobs that people will have to accept and try to survive on.  Those jobs should pay a living wage.

 

EDIT:  Changed middle class to real for wages to use your words

Edited November 5, 2020 by TXSG8R

[BradInATX 9208]

50 minutes ago, slorch said:

 

again, if you’re trying to appeal to non- dems, this ain’t the way.

Did you miss that Florida, a state that broke hard for Trump, voted for a minimum wage? Seems you're just making shit up to fit your narrative, imo.

 

[Smax 3799]

1 hour ago, TXSG8R said:

Not my platform, it’s just math. What you’re offering is a false choice. X number of workers won’t ever equal x number of jobs above minimum wage, no matter how hard people want it or try. There is a fractional number of jobs that pay above minimum wage. The rest of the workers are stuck taking jobs at the bottom for a variety of factors. Those jobs should pay a living wage. $7.25 isn’t it. 

I have a hard time believing there are large numbers of people with a college degree, vocational training or a trade skill is making minimum wage. To those who decided for whatever reason not improve their skillset, you reap what you sow.

[Dbeasy 14953]

Jobs are going to be destroyed at an ever advancing pace. That is the point.
 
Unless you position is to bring back the stagecoach builders union or whale boat captains guild.

Oh come on. Whale boat captains can just retrain themselves to become artificial intelligence programmers on advanced robotics. Easy.

[TXSG8R 3355]

7 minutes ago, Smax said:

I have a hard time believing there are large numbers of people with a college degree, vocational training or a trade skill is making minimum wage. To those who decided for whatever reason not improve their skillset, you reap what you sow.

See my next post on why this thinking is still complete bullshit.  If everyone went and got college or skill training, there aren't, and will never be, enough "real" jobs to hire those people.  We cant be a country full of engineers in engineer positions.  There will always be food service positions, manual labor, etc that make up the bulk of employment in this country.  You have to pay those people enough to live on.  

Edited November 5, 2020 by TXSG8R

[workswithseed 2033]

16 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Oh come on. Whale boat captains can just retrain themselves to become artificial intelligence programmers on advanced robotics. Easy.

Or pollsters.

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, G650 said:

Jobs are going to be destroyed at an ever advancing pace. That is the point.

 

Unless you position is to bring back the stagecoach builders union or whale boat captains guild.

Your position is to crush small business by falsely inflating wages.

 

Not appealing at all. You’re just working your agenda

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Oh come on. Whale boat captains can just retrain themselves to become artificial intelligence programmers on advanced robotics. Easy.

Education counts. That should be part of the appeal across the aisle. You’re most definitely on point on this one

[G650 13990]

13 minutes ago, slorch said:

Your position is to crush small business by falsely inflating wages.

 

Not appealing at all. You’re just working your agenda

I'm a small business owner, but hey whatever.

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

1 hour ago, G650 said:

There aren't enough of these to go around is the point.

 

Edit: And the amount is rapidly shrinking.

How does this work with Joe’s new amnesty plan for immigrants?  And his proposed ramp up of refugee acceptance?  How does this not hurt the current working class compete if for these jobs?  What’s the solution to counter act this?