The Democratic Party

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Let the war begin. 

 

[bad_teammate 13222]

AOC is correct.

The last two elections were done in a layup line, Hillary blew one and Biden's is going to fall in after rolling around the rim for 30 seconds first, and establishment Dems are flexing like a Longhorn defender who just gave up a 1st on 3rd & 18.

Losing ground in the House is unforgivable. The septua and octogenarians who run this party should be put out to pasture. I don't even care much for the guy, but put Pete in charge of the machine and let him work. The good thing with him is that you can just keep the adrenochrome harvesting facilities open so at least the one cool aspect of the Dems survives the transition.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

AOC is correct.

The last two elections were done in a layup line, Hillary blew one and Biden's is going to fall in after rolling around the rim for 30 seconds first, and establishment Dems are flexing like a Longhorn defender who just gave up a 1st on 3rd & 18.

Losing ground in the House is unforgivable. The septua and octogenarians who run this party should be put out to pasture. I don't even care much for the guy, but put Pete in charge of the machine and let him work. The good thing with him is that you can just keep the adrenochrome harvesting facilities open so at least the one cool aspect of the Dems survives the transition.

I look around at the young people and think, "why not?" With a little encouragement, real sincere support, and some mentoring (not old person do it exactly the way I did mentoring, but the guidance to see some various long term consequences prior to making a decision) I believe the young crowd is ready to get out there and make some noise and gain some leadership. Half the time I worry that some of the Democrats are ashamed of AOC and others like her instead of seeing her potential. Let her and the others shoot their shot as my kids say. It feels (to me) like there is a bottleneck in the political system and when it is finally unleashed, the smaller in number older middle aged crowd combined with the younger and larger still crowd could get some things moving. My time is past, my children are beginning to move out into the world at large. I'd like for them to follow that UT motto in spirit even if they didn't or likely won't attend UT.

[Fud 9552]

 

[JFKFC 4891]

 

[Pescado_Rojo 19427]

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

AOC is correct.

The last two elections were done in a layup line, Hillary blew one and Biden's is going to fall in after rolling around the rim for 30 seconds first, and establishment Dems are flexing like a Longhorn defender who just gave up a 1st on 3rd & 18.

Losing ground in the House is unforgivable. The septua and octogenarians who run this party should be put out to pasture. I don't even care much for the guy, but put Pete in charge of the machine and let him work. The good thing with him is that you can just keep the adrenochrome harvesting facilities open so at least the one cool aspect of the Dems survives the transition.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

AOC is correct.

The last two elections were done in a layup line, Hillary blew one and Biden's is going to fall in after rolling around the rim for 30 seconds first, and establishment Dems are flexing like a Longhorn defender who just gave up a 1st on 3rd & 18.

Losing ground in the House is unforgivable. The septua and octogenarians who run this party should be put out to pasture. I don't even care much for the guy, but put Pete in charge of the machine and let him work. The good thing with him is that you can just keep the adrenochrome harvesting facilities open so at least the one cool aspect of the Dems survives the transition.

McCaskill is essentially saying what I've heard in all the other threads here about the Dems leading or having a thesis around identity politics is a loser and they need to be running more on the pocketbook and ROI for middle class and what they can do for them economically. It's the same message and it's not definitively "wrong", at this point, which by I mean it might be wrong but I don't think you can draw that conclusion yet, especially when factoring in how the 2020 GE broke.

Edited November 5, 2020 by DonkeyCigars

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 hour ago, Fud said:

 

This

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

The septua and octogenarians who run this party should be put out to pasture.

I don’t mind their age so much, it’s the out of touch worldview they’ve shaped from being in the system for so long. 

[David Dennison 18944]

The party takeaway will be to try to figure out how to win back Trump voters.

In short, the Democratic Party sucks real bad.

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

AOC is right..... for her constituency and narrow bandwidth of electorate.  But there are also Dems who run in Red states or in more centrist or moderate regions who also need the flexibility and breadth to appeal to the constituents.  There are a lot of things they agree on, but they also need to understand the issues or subject matters which need a bit more polish so they can have differing views.  Spanberger is also right.  Both things can be true because they're in totally different environments and have to cater to different voter bases.

It'll be interesting to see what structural changes the Dems need to not only change with their message, but their infrastructure and outreach.  I think first on the priority list is win this fucking election and then folks can argue about who fucked up.  I also think new leadership is needed in both houses of Congress.

 

[Satchel 6940]

The larger question for me is why there wasn’t a significant repudiation of Trumpism by the American electorate. Nearly 70 million people voted for an openly racist, misogynistic criminal without dilemma.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The centrists got everything they wanted in this election.  They got the messaging, the candidates, and the policy.  Yet now pundits are blaming dem shortcomings on the progressive wing of the party. It’s hilarious. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[David Dennison 18944]

12 minutes ago, Satchel said:

The larger question for me is why there wasn’t a significant repudiation of Trumpism by the American electorate. Nearly 70 million people voted for an openly racist, misogynistic criminal without dilemma.

That's easy.

Racism. Specifically, anti-black racism.

Edited November 5, 2020 by David Dennison

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

That's easy.

Racism. Specifically, anti-black racism.

It’s white “christian” supremacy.  Much of the country has internalized hundreds of years of a society built on a foundation of white Jesus supremacy and they will let Trump murder them before giving it up.  It’s sad. 

[David Dennison 18944]

34 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s white “christian” supremacy.  Much of the country has internalized hundreds of years of a society built on a foundation of white Jesus supremacy and they will let Trump murder them before giving it up.  It’s sad. 

There is a racial caste system in this country and everyone knows it.

[gmr548 16591]

flexing like a Longhorn defender who just gave up a 1st on 3rd & 18.

Jesus. Can we get a trigger warning next time?

[Wiler77 1567]

56 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

That's easy.

Racism. Specifically, anti-black racism.

I think it's simpler than that.  Greed.  Democrats are painted as the party that will take your money.  Half the country is willing to forgive someone raping their mother in front of their eyes as long as the rapist doesn't ask for payment afterwards.

[BradInATX 9208]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The centrists got everything they wanted in this election.  They got the messaging, the candidates, and the policy.  Yet now pundits are blaming dem shortcomings on the progressive wing of the party. It’s hilarious. 

Your sudden "progressive cheerleader and eternally vigilant scolder of centrists" persona is odd for a guy who voted for a centrist in the Democratic primary and spent months talking shit about the only progressive in the race.

Edited November 5, 2020 by BradInATX

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

53 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Your sudden "progressive cheerleader and eternally vigilant scolder of centrists" persona is odd for a guy who voted for a centrist in the Democratic primary and spent months talking shit about the only progressive in the race.

Didn’t vote for a centrist in the primary but do understand why they won the nomination and yeah I gave Bernie some shit in the primary but I still think he’s been great for expanding the base.  

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

 

4 hours ago, BradInATX said:

Your sudden "progressive cheerleader and eternally vigilant scolder of centrists" persona is odd for a guy who voted for a centrist in the Democratic primary and spent months talking shit about the only progressive in the race.

Warren is a centrist now?  C'mon.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

AOC is kinda going off this morning 

[bad_teammate 13222]

Lumping BLM/Defund in with O&G is disgusting and disqualifying. It's extremely revealing about the fundamental white supremacy of Democrats writ large (see also: The Klan meeting that was white centrists during the red mirage. We already heard you and saw you, the genie is out of the bottle.).

I'm going to put O&G stuff aside for now, because that doesn't belong in this conversation.

Anyway, we can just stipulate that Defund is bad for centrist candidates in red/purple areas. Stipulated.

So that's a problem for them. What do leaders and winners do: They accurately diagnose and then solve problems.

The argument Lamb and Spanburger and the shitlibs are making is that Defund rhetoric hurt them. OK, it probably did. But then they say their "far-left colleagues" are to blame? That's just a fundamental misdiagnosis of what happened. Defund rhetoric didn't come from AOC and her ilk. It came from activists in the streets. The far-left braintrusts on the coasts don't lead black activists in Mississippi or Philadelphia or Atlanta or Missouri or basically anywhere in the country.

Diagnose the problem correctly. Lamb and Spanberger (whoever these fucking freaks are) are either too stupid or too cowardly to tell the truth about where Defund rhetoric comes from. Both are disqualifying.

We're not Republicans. We're not supposed to be lying idiots.

[beer 3220]

16 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

 

Warren is a centrist now?  C'mon.

He's a super spreader.  Check out that dick nose. 

[Bruh Man 3160]

On 11/5/2020 at 3:38 PM, Patrick Bateman said:

AOC is right..... for her constituency and narrow bandwidth of electorate.  But there are also Dems who run in Red states or in more centrist or moderate regions who also need the flexibility and breadth to appeal to the constituents.  There are a lot of things they agree on, but they also need to understand the issues or subject matters which need a bit more polish so they can have differing views.  Spanberger is also right.  Both things can be true because they're in totally different environments and have to cater to different voter bases.

It'll be interesting to see what structural changes the Dems need to not only change with their message, but their infrastructure and outreach.  I think first on the priority list is win this fucking election and then folks can argue about who fucked up.  I also think new leadership is needed in both houses of Congress.

 

She might want to heed her own advice on messaging, b/c I can pull videos/articles from the summer where AOC fully embraces the "defund the police" slogan. I'm sorry but I agree with Spanberger, Clyburn, et al. As a leader in the party, her words matter. Not just for her, but everyone in the party. Considering it's a big tent party she might want to be a little more prudent about bombastic shit like this and yes, drop her affiliation with DSA. It's not only handicapping purple district Dems, it's going to handicap her ability to get a bigger national stage in the future.

[Texaspython 231]

Defund the police and socialism were on the ballot and losers for Dems. You can’t run around and talk about socialism and defunding the police then act shocked that we lost on those issues.

 

Biden won because he ran away from socialism and defunding the police. We’re going to get slaughtered in 2022 unless the adults grab the wheel. The extreme left is just so out of touch. They just don’t understand we win despite the stupid shit they say.

[Texaspython 231]

Also, it’s beyond frustrating that the left would declare war on their allies less that 24 hours after a big presidential win. It’s just so on brand for these guys. Less than 24 hours after beating one of the most evil bastards in this country’s history and the left has convinced themselves Joe Biden and Dems like him (and me) are the enemy.

 

Y’all don’t have to be happy about Biden winning but let the rest of us celebrate for awhile.

[bad_teammate 13222]

You've been incessantly toxic for 3+ days and you're whining about how the left is mean? Gain a modicum of self-awareness, dude.

[bad_teammate 13222]

A perfect example of super toxic centrists...

Republicans don't need to do any work to villainize progressive values because toxic centrists will use THE EXACT SAME FUCKING TALKING POINTS AS REPUBLICANS against members of their own party. At least when the left is critical of the center they don't literally sound like Republicans.

[Guest Lobo]

I don't know that I'd call your centrists, "Toxic."  Joe is bringing people together unlike other hunks of "centrist" shit in recent memory.  

Edited November 8, 2020 by Lobo

[Texaspython 231]

15 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You've been incessantly toxic for 3+ days and you're whining about how the left is mean? Gain a modicum of self-awareness, dude.

Just towards you. I’ll do what I think most have and put you on ignore. The guy who didn’t support the Democratic nominee really shouldn’t have an opinion.

[Texaspython 231]

18 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You've been incessantly toxic for 3+ days and you're whining about how the left is mean? Gain a modicum of self-awareness, dude.

Just towards you. I’ll do what I think most have and put you on ignore. The guy who didn’t support the Democratic nominee really shouldn’t have an opinion.

[bad_teammate 13222]

Tell me about your voting history, python.

[Texaspython 231]

10 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Tell me about your voting history, python.

I’ll answer this because you need to know then you’re on ignore. I’ve been a straight ticket dem my entire life. Even when I knew the goofy liberal had no shot, I voted for them. I’ve been far more involved in politics than you have my friend. Spent my entire life dealing with morons like yourself and losing elections. 

[bad_teammate 13222]

2 minutes ago, Texaspython said:

Spent my entire life dealing with morons like yourself and losing elections. 

You have not spent your entire life dealing with leftists in Texas politics. You're just lying (and toxic).

[Texaspython 231]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You have not spent your entire life dealing with leftists in Texas politics. You're just lying (and toxic).

Whatever makes you feel better. 

[bad_teammate 13222]

Let's break down the idea that Texas Democrats lose because of socialists.

How does that actually look on the ground?
- Are there socialists interacting with Texans and turning them off?
- Are there socialist Texan politicians proposing the redistribution of wealth?

The answer to both is no, of course, so the problem isn't actually socialists in Texas. Even in your framing of the situation, it is only the concept of socialism that's the problem. And the concept of socialism is a problem because of decades of right-wing rhetoric.

So what Texas Democrats have been doing is trying to distance themselves from the specter of socialism, not from actual socialists.

They could take away the power of the specter by laughing at it as opposed to being scared of it. Voters see the fear and they see the weakness.

[heso 2813]

On 11/6/2020 at 8:43 AM, bad_teammate said:

Lumping BLM/Defund in with O&G is disgusting and disqualifying. It's extremely revealing about the fundamental white supremacy of Democrats writ large (see also: The Klan meeting that was white centrists during the red mirage. We already heard you and saw you, the genie is out of the bottle.).

I'm going to put O&G stuff aside for now, because that doesn't belong in this conversation.

Anyway, we can just stipulate that Defund is bad for centrist candidates in red/purple areas. Stipulated.

So that's a problem for them. What do leaders and winners do: They accurately diagnose and then solve problems.

The argument Lamb and Spanburger and the shitlibs are making is that Defund rhetoric hurt them. OK, it probably did. But then they say their "far-left colleagues" are to blame? That's just a fundamental misdiagnosis of what happened. Defund rhetoric didn't come from AOC and her ilk. It came from activists in the streets. The far-left braintrusts on the coasts don't lead black activists in Mississippi or Philadelphia or Atlanta or Missouri or basically anywhere in the country.

Diagnose the problem correctly. Lamb and Spanberger (whoever these fucking freaks are) are either too stupid or too cowardly to tell the truth about where Defund rhetoric comes from. Both are disqualifying.

We're not Republicans. We're not supposed to be lying idiots.

Lamb is the PA 17th district, where I live. It’s half of Allegheny County without downtown Pittsburgh and the whole next county over. He has a county that Biden won by 20 and a county that Trump won by 18. Registered Democrats outnumber registered republicans 2 to 1 in BOTH counties.

His district shifted 3 points blue in the presidential race while shifting 5 points red in the house race. He was the incumbent and his opponent basically just ran on Trumpism. Fighting the radical left, reopening the economy, supporting the police, supporting fracking, etc. 

He’s 36. He won 2 house elections in 2018 in two different districts. The special election for PA 18 and then after the district lines were redrawn he won his current district. 

He’s probably going to run for Pat Toomey’s senate seat in 2022.

He knows that while the AOCs of the party want to drag the nation forward-left as fast as possible kicking and screaming, there are a massive amount of people that are open to heading in that direction at a slower pace and without embracing things like defund the police and “socialism”. The vast majority of those people would completely get behind issues like police reform and progressive ideas, but not when the banner carriers are calling them defund the police and socialism. 

It seems to me that Lamb understands a democratic part of the country that AOC either thinks she doesn’t need, or will see things her way eventually no matter what. 

AOC wants what’s best for the whole country, but she can’t do it without a majority of the country. Her ideas are good, and her passion is well placed, but she has to see that she needs the middle to come with her. And right or wrong, how her ideas are branded will make a massive difference in how much she’s able to accomplish.

[bad_teammate 13222]

21 minutes ago, heso said:

He knows that while the AOCs of the party want to drag the nation forward-left as fast as possible kicking and screaming, there are a massive amount of people that are open to heading in that direction at a slower pace and without embracing things like defund the police and “socialism”. The vast majority of those people would completely get behind issues like police reform and progressive ideas, but not when the banner carriers are calling them defund the police and socialism. 

ok

Quote

It seems to me that Lamb understands a democratic part of the country that AOC either thinks she doesn’t need, or will see things her way eventually no matter what. 

AOC is a Congresswoman from NYC. Why do people like you talk about her like she was running for president?

The obsession with her as an individual is yet another Republican move that many Democrats are happy to mirror/amplify.

They play the fiddle and you guys just dance and pretend it's their job to determine the tune.

Grow a set of fucking balls.

[washparkhorn 9939]

Centrists are detached from politics and economic conditions traditionally (unless politics or the economy is making them or losing them money). 

One segment of the centrists are the self-described professional managerial class. They are gonna get their's first and they have Prader–Willi syndrome when it comes to money. I don't blame them. They can see the economic movement that obliterated the working class, is obliterating the middle class, and has eyes on their lack of productivity as well.  

Yang was not wrong about the economic forces in effect. They will affect all but a few.

Efficiency is god in this iteration of capitalism. Progress or perish. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by washparkhorn

[Hank Kingsley 21013]

Clyburn played his part in this year's election, but we need these instiutionalists  to retire ASAP. 

 

[heso 2813]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

ok

AOC is a Congresswoman from NYC. Why do people like you talk about her like she was running for president?

The obsession with her as an individual is yet another Republican move that many Democrats are happy to mirror/amplify.

They play the fiddle and you guys just dance and pretend it's their job to determine the tune.

Grow a set of fucking balls.

Look, I know you get off on being an ass, and I was hesitant to even bother responding to you because I was nearly certain my point would fall on deaf ears, but I decided to give it a go anyway for some reason. 

If AOC just wants to keep winning NY-14, then cool she can keep doing what she’s doing. But she talks like she wants to move the country. 

If anyone on the left front of the Democratic Party wants to get anything of substance accomplished they need to figure out that they need the middle. They need votes. That’s the only thing that will get their ideas enacted. 

But maybe they don’t actually give a single fuck about things like massive green infrastructure projects backed by a federal jobs program or a minimum wage that people can live on. Maybe they’re just as happy winning their royal blue districts as the scum that occupy the crimson house seats. 

 

[bad_teammate 13222]

6 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Clyburn played his part in this year's election

SC 1996: R +6
SC 2000: R +16
SC 2004: R +17
SC 2008: R +8
SC 2012: R +12
SC 2016: R +14
SC 2020: R +12

Clyburn's part was breaking his word on not endorsing to make sure Sanders didn't win the primary. (He did the same in 2016.)

Beyond that... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Redpuma 146]

Centrism doesn’t work. Dems miserable performance with a pandemic and economic crisis shows that Biden and team doesn’t resonate. Dems need to expand the base not go after voters that wound vote D no matter what. 

[Hank Kingsley 21013]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

SC 1996: R +6
SC 2000: R +16
SC 2004: R +17
SC 2008: R +8
SC 2012: R +12
SC 2016: R +14
SC 2020: R +12

Clyburn's part was breaking his word on not endorsing to make sure Sanders didn't win the primary. (He did the same in 2016.)

Beyond that... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not happy with what Clyburn did, but he was a catalyst for Biden's nomination. Your numbers don't prove otherwise and reek of (understandable) sour grapes. 

 

[bad_teammate 13222]

Centrists love to complain that people are too mean while simultaneously being extremely toxic, sarcastic, and condescending. Pick. Be an asshole or don't. Choose.

"The middle" isn't an actual thing in the context of ideological framework. "The middle" is a marketing concept in which you define yourself against two other things and set those things up as "extremes" even if they don't represent actual extremes in any objective or philosophical way.

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

 

[washparkhorn 9939]

17 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

 

I was hoping the Dem Centrists would wait until Trump was out of office to slink back to - Yes, we can't.

[bad_teammate 13222]

It's not just "No, we can't!" it's "No, we can't! AND FUCK YOU IF YOU SAY WE CAN!"

[washparkhorn 9939]

They are hopeless outnumbered and should know when they are conquered. 

The regressive hordes are running out of time to progress. The economic situation is not in their favor and they are killing the golden goose that provides for their benefactors getting fat off of the United States. Right now the centrist leaders are in a Thelma and Louse mania. That will pass. 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by washparkhorn
Strength, honor and kindness.