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Posted
  On 3/7/2025 at 5:20 PM, Brisketexan said:

Oh, I have (it's been a while).  Trust me, I know how to get punched pretty hard and bleed.  Hell, that's why I decided I didn't like fighting much as I matured: even when you "win," the other guy usually lands a few, and punches hurt.  Also, chicks hated it when dudes fought, and when I was out and about and tensions got high to where a fight was possible, I was also likely at a bar or somesuch trying to meet girls.

End up in fight with random dumbass vs. chat up the cute brunette with the button nose at the end of the bar?  No-brainer, man.

But what I'm suggesting is not exactly novel.  It's right out of the civil rights movement and Ghandi's nonviolent resistance.  Make the oppressor take offensive, brutal action against you in the light of day.  Those sorts of images turn the stomach of civilized people, or even people who like to think they're civilized.

Images like this changed the world.

GTY-blm-civil-rights-17-jef-161228_20x13

ap3967239957153-ed895697624a65928dc71e4a

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I was never particularly good at fighting. Probably more Jerry Cooney than Iron Mike Tyson. What I have always been good at is taking punches. I think it just goes back to always playing sports and getting the tar knocked out of me playing football. Punches never hurt. 
 

I say that to say that yes if you are in a situation that gets heated don’t give in and throw punches or pull out a weapon trying to go all John Wick on someone. Take your cue from John Lewis and show up and dare someone to violently attack you just by being there. I would love to see more of this from Democrats, but too many near the top of the pyramid are entrenched and just aren’t interested. I find it humorous that three of the Democrats willing to be vocal and not back down in AOC, Ilhan Omar and Jasmine Crockett are all small in stature, but they each never stop pushing back against fascists. These are the people I want leading among a few others. Jeffries can kick rocks. Just a free healthcare and paycheck collecting fraud.

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Posted
  On 3/14/2025 at 2:01 AM, UpperWestside said:

I was never particularly good at fighting. Probably more Jerry Cooney than Iron Mike Tyson. What I have always been good at is taking punches. I think it just goes back to always playing sports and getting the tar knocked out of me playing football. Punches never hurt. 
 

I say that to say that yes if you are in a situation that gets heated don’t give in and throw punches or pull out a weapon trying to go all John Wick on someone. Take your cue from John Lewis and show up and dare someone to violently attack you just by being there. I would love to see more of this from Democrats, but too many near the top of the pyramid are entrenched and just aren’t interested. I find it humorous that three of the Democrats willing to be vocal and not back down in AOC, Ilhan Omar and Jasmine Crockett are all small in stature, but they each never stop pushing back against fascists. These are the people I want leading among a few others. Jeffries can kick rocks. Just a free healthcare and paycheck collecting fraud.

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Some years ago, I was in a W. Texas courtroom, representing the good local folks against an overreaching and arrogant oilman type, who was used to getting his way.  After an afternoon in court, he was most definitely not getting his way.  After telling him what was what, the judge ordered us to the jury room to talk things over and see if we could work out a deal.  We went there.  I sat in a chair, and laid out our position and expectations (we had the upper hand, and I wasn't giving it away).  He got RIPSHIT pissed.  He got up from his chair across the room, and he came at me, with no doubt as to his intentions.  And I recall sitting there in my chair, thinking with a slight grin "he's going to punch me.  It's going to hurt.  Also, I'm going to win this whole damned case, he's going to write me a personal check, and he's gonna spend the night in jail."  My grin got bigger.  I didn't move -- I wanted him to punch me in a chair in a room full of witnesses.  Because that's how you fucking WIN.

Unfortunately, HIS lawyer saw what was happening, jumped up, and cut him off.  We still did well that day, but man....him punching a defenseless man sitting in a chair would have handed me total victory on a silver platter.

Make them do incredibly shitty things in broad daylight.  It's how they lose any legitimacy they had.  Make 'em do shit like this:

1*k1XAWaDdv05rnV9vFZu3xQ.jpeg

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Posted
  On 3/14/2025 at 1:40 AM, David Dennison said:

The Republicans needed votes for cloture. You'd think Democrats could get something out of that.

Oh well. Guess not.

Get 'em next time, team.

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Oh it is far worse than that man. If this was just a simple stop gap funding bill and the Democrats simply failed to extract any concessions from this situation that would be one thing. That would be shameful.

But this is not that situation. The Republicans are extracting massive concessions to the Democrats and threatening them to get them to accept those concessions and vote yes. The Republicans are going to slash funding to benefits including Medicaid, they are unconstitutionally transferring taxing authority to the President. And if the Democrats do not vote for this, they are threatening that DOGE and Musk will dismantle the Federal Government while it is shutdown because the courts will not be functional. But Musk and Trump are going to do that anyway and the courts are always two steps behind.

I mean with a threat that dire the Democrats absolutely should refuse to play ball and demand all the unconstitutional shit and all the benefit reductions are removed. Those aren't concessions, just a demand for the status quo which is insane when the status quo is Trump and Musk destroying the government unconstitutionally anyway. But they aren't even getting the current status quo. They have been outplayed, outflanked, and totally politically crushed. They have no plan, no fight, no nothing. So they are going to give concessions to the Republicans and fold. And now when Trump is doing all this shit, he will have Democratic votes supporting him.

And for what? For Trump to do all this shit anyway? Let him gut the government. Don't vote for unconstitutional bills. Don't vote to slash benefits. This is important enough to take a stand on.

Granted, they haven't even done it yet AFAIK. So I will hold back my outrage just a bit.

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Posted
  On 3/14/2025 at 3:16 AM, Valmy77 said:

Oh it is far worse than that man. If this was just a simple stop gap funding bill and the Democrats simply failed to extract any concessions from this situation that would be one thing. That would be shameful.

But this is not that situation. The Republicans are extracting massive concessions to the Democrats and threatening them to get them to accept those concessions and vote yes. The Republicans are going to slash funding to benefits including Medicaid, they are unconstitutionally transferring taxing authority to the President. And if the Democrats do not vote for this, they are threatening that DOGE and Musk will dismantle the Federal Government while it is shutdown because the courts will not be functional. But Musk and Trump are going to do that anyway and the courts are always two steps behind.

I mean with a threat that dire the Democrats absolutely should refuse to play ball and demand all the unconstitutional shit and all the benefit reductions are removed. Those aren't concessions, just a demand for the status quo which is insane when the status quo is Trump and Musk destroying the government unconstitutionally anyway. But they aren't even getting the current status quo. They have been outplayed, outflanked, and totally politically crushed. They have no plan, no fight, no nothing. So they are going to give concessions to the Republicans and fold. And now when Trump is doing all this shit, he will have Democratic votes supporting him.

And for what? For Trump to do all this shit anyway? Let him gut the government. Don't vote for unconstitutional bills. Don't vote to slash benefits. This is important enough to take a stand on.

Granted, they haven't even done it yet AFAIK. So I will hold back my outrage just a bit.

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What Chuck Schumer and Senate Democrats are saying with this capitulation is that they agree with the notion that the Executive Branch has the power to unilaterally privatize the federal bureaucracy and there's not damn thing the opposition will do about it.

Wonderful.

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Posted
  On 3/14/2025 at 2:16 AM, David Dennison said:

 

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Well that is the most unsurprising yet most depressing thing I have ever read.

  Quote

There was a recognition up in the Senate yesterday that letting the bill pass was a bad idea, but that was matched by a pained realization that the caucus wasn’t ready for the fight. They hadn’t laid any of the groundwork. They didn’t have a clear answer of what they’d be fighting for if a shutdown happened. They’d put their bets on Mike Johnson not being able to get a bill through the House without Democratic votes. When he did, they were caught flatfooted. But the “they” here is Chuck Schumer. That’s the leader’s job. He lead them into a corner.

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What the fuck? You senile old incompetent buffoon!! You had no plan, no strategy? You just fucking assumed EVERYTHING WOULD MAGICALLY WORK OUT FOR YOU!!!11 Schumer's strategy was FUCKING WISHFUL THINKING?!

He should be in prison for criminal negligence. And then he schemed to trick his caucus into voting for the bill by some easily discoverable bullshit?

Is there any way short of murder we can get rid of this guy? A Republican double agent couldn't do a better job.

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Posted
  On 3/14/2025 at 3:23 AM, David Dennison said:

What Chuck Schumer and Senate Democrats are saying with this capitulation is that they agree with the notion that the Executive Branch has the power to unilaterally privatize the federal bureaucracy and there's not damn thing the opposition will do about it.

Wonderful.

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Give up on everything. Because they are going to swoop back to power in the midterms and in 2028 you see and...accomplish nothing at all and basically let all of Trump's actions slide. I have seen this movie before.

If they had no plan for Trump's presidency and no plan for this bill and do nothing but sit around and react incompetently to every trap laid for them, do we really think they are going to be able to radically, quickly, and effectively reshape the wrecked government and economy that Trump would hand them even if they did win? They will have no plan and no vision at all.

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Posted

Schumer has a mutiny on his hands. No clue how the cloture vote ends up going, but he may not have the votes and he's betrayed his caucus, house Dems, and Democratic voters so thoroughly and openly that there's not really any way he can remain part of the Dem senate leadership.  

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Posted
  On 3/14/2025 at 4:10 AM, wildcat09 said:

Schumer has a mutiny on his hands. No clue how the cloture vote ends up going, but he may not have the votes and he's betrayed his caucus, house Dems, and Democratic voters so thoroughly and openly that there's not really any way he can remain part of the Dem senate leadership.  

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Oh, there's a way. We're talking about Democrats after all.

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Posted (edited)
  On 3/14/2025 at 4:10 AM, wildcat09 said:

Schumer has a mutiny on his hands. No clue how the cloture vote ends up going, but he may not have the votes and he's betrayed his caucus, house Dems, and Democratic voters so thoroughly and openly that there's not really any way he can remain part of the Dem senate leadership.  

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Oh God. You are probably wrong but I hope this is true. I have hope, that doesn't usually work out for me.

Edited by Valmy77
Posted (edited)
  On 3/14/2025 at 2:16 AM, David Dennison said:

 

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I think Schumer is right.

Think about it: R's are trying to dismantle and shut down the government. 

If the R's pass the government budget and stave off a shut down, but the D's appear in the perception and narrative that they are the reason for the shutdown, then the R's get to further distort reality and crow about how they are the ones who are trying to keep the government running and the D's are destroying the government and the economy, etc.

The R's would essentially be getting the D's to do the dirty work for them, because they want the government crippled.

Edited by Vegas64
Posted
  23 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

I think Schumer is right.

Think about it: R's are trying to dismantle and shut down the government. 

If the R's pass the government budget and stave off a shut down, but the D's appear in the perception and narrative that they are the reason for the shutdown, then the R's get to further distort reality and crow about how they are the ones who are trying to keep the government running and the D's are destroying the government and the economy, etc.

The R's would essentially be getting the D's to do the dirty work for them, because they want the government crippled.

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They're crippling it anyway.

Posted
  23 hours ago, Texas Flood said:

Heavy new yawk accent that’s borderline lispy 

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I spent 8 and a half years there and he has a light accent, if that, for a New Yorker. I spent a lot of time out on Long Island where the actual New York accents are mostly at, and Jeffries sounds like Walter Kronkite in comparison.

Posted
  23 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

We already have Chuck Schumer, how more mediocre a white man is there?

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America is the home of the mediocre white man. There's another Schumer just waiting to fill in admirably as the next mediocre white man up if called upon.

Posted
  23 hours ago, David Dennison said:

They're crippling it anyway.

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Of course they are and it's morally rephrensible. Let the R's cleanly own the disaster and steer clear of being int he same vicinity as the R's in their destruction of the government. I think that's what Schumer and the like are saying and I think they are ultimately correct, even if it's emotionally unsatisfying and feels like capitulation in the moment and in short term.

Posted (edited)
  22 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

Of course they are and it's morally rephrensible. Let the R's cleanly own the disaster and steer clear of being int he same vicinity as the R's in their destruction of the government. I think that's what Schumer and the like are saying and I think they are ultimately correct, even if it's emotionally unsatisfying and feels like capitulation in the moment and in short term.

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I don't have much faith in Democratic leadership to be able to pin the disaster on the Republican Party or on Donald Trump. 

Edited by David Dennison
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Posted
  23 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

I think Schumer is right.

Think about it: R's are trying to dismantle and shut down the government. 

If the R's pass the government budget and stave off a shut down, but the D's appear in the perception and narrative that they are the reason for the shutdown, then the R's get to further distort reality and crow about how they are the ones who are trying to keep the government running and the D's are destroying the government and the economy, etc.

The R's would essentially be getting the D's to do the dirty work for them, because they want the government crippled.

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This bill would legitimize what Trump is doing, violate the separation of powers of the Constitution and slash benefits. It isn't just keeping the government open. 

And under those terms, you might as well shut it down.

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Posted

Schumer is terrible. So, he comes out and says they wont give the votes to the Republicans but their request is to have a vote for 30 day CR. Then, the very next day he capitulates and says that they will vote for the House CR. 

WTF? Did he actually believe that Thune was going to agree on a vote for the 30 day?

This is the only time they have any leverage. To not use it is malpractice. They don’t have to take the blame for the shutdown as this isn’t a normal CR as it has no instructions for the Executive on spending (which is an absolute gift to TFG).

Trump is going to continue crashing the economy and destroying the government with it open and closed.

Schumer’s not a Palestinian - it’s more like Vichy France.

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Posted
  16 hours ago, hornmpa96 said:

Schumer is terrible. So, he comes out and says they wont give the votes to the Republicans but their request is to have a vote for 30 day CR. Then, the very next day he capitulates and says that they will vote for the House CR

WTF? Did he actually believe that Thune was going to agree on a vote for the 30 day?

This is the only time they have any leverage. To not use it is malpractice. They don’t have to take the blame for the shutdown as this isn’t a normal CR as it has no instructions for the Executive on spending (which is an absolute gift to TFG).

Trump is going to continue crashing the economy and destroying the government with it open and closed.

Schumer’s not a Palestinian - it’s more like Vichy France.

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Schumer thought he could cut a deal with Thune to get votes on some proposed amendments that were doomed to fail in exchange for the cloture vote, so he could pretend that the Dems fought. All he wanted to do was lie to voters on his own side to pretend he wasn't really surrendering, but Thune either told him "lol no" or didn't even respond.

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Posted

Schumer seems like he is still operating on "business as usual" mindset as opposed to a fully on insurgency war.  He is not the person needed for the job today.

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Posted
  19 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

stop worrying about blame. trump and his redhats will blame everything on the dems whether we do what’s right or wrong, so might as well do what’s right. 

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I'm torn.  I'm feeling that the Maga sympathizers are feeling nervous about what Trump is doing.  (Not MAGA, they are all in no matter). 

So 10 Dems decide voting for it is, to them, doing the right thing. 

I do think it's a close call.  I'd want my rep to vote against it. 

 

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Posted
  13 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

And they don't really want a shutdown. Elon may sort of think he does occasionally, but he's a fucking idiot. If there's a shutdown Trump and the GOP will get the majority of the blame because the shit they're doing right now is wildly unpopular and people want it to stop. There's a reason the GOP unified to pass this fucking thing and it's not any 4d chess shit. Trump can't even fucking play checkers, much less chess, and is already talking about supporting a primary challenge against their lone holdout. He doesn't want a shutdown. These guys are fucking bullies, which means they're cowards. There's nothing a coward is more afraid of than someone fighting back. 

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Pretty convincing. 

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Posted
  13 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

It's not a close call. It's not easy, but it's not a close call. The argument against a shutdown is that Dems don't really have any leverage anyway and letting the government shut down means Trump/Elon/Vought can choose to shut down whatever they want. But they're already doing that. Courts will continue to function but DOJ staff will be greatly reduced, and hobbling the DOJ's ability to defend Trump is a good thing, not a bad thing.

The argument for a shutdown is that Trump is weaker right now than he will be in six months if they let this CR pass. He's shocked a lot of people who still remember when things were actually pretty good just a couple of months ago and he's galvanized a furious opposition again. If Dems cave on this CR that opposition will splinter and another six months of Trump's insanity will cause a lot of people to just go numb and tune it all out. Besides, he and Elon and Vought have been shutting the government down for nearly two months already. Passing this CR will effectively ratify their crimes and essentially cede Article 1 powers to Trump. It will render Congress a rump institution. Better for Congress to just shut down and not operate and not fund anything for the next 3.5 years than that. That's not even getting into how the bill defunds DC's cops, probably so they can replace them with some ICE shitheads who will arrest any troublemaking protesters. 

And they don't really want a shutdown. Elon may sort of think he does occasionally, but he's a fucking idiot. If there's a shutdown Trump and the GOP will get the majority of the blame because the shit they're doing right now is wildly unpopular and people want it to stop. There's a reason the GOP unified to pass this fucking thing and it's not any 4d chess shit. Trump can't even fucking play checkers, much less chess, and is already talking about supporting a primary challenge against their lone holdout. He doesn't want a shutdown. These guys are fucking bullies, which means they're cowards. There's nothing a coward is more afraid of than someone fighting back. 

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Thank you, well said and informative on the perspectives and what they mean.

Posted
  14 hours ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I'm torn.  I'm feeling that the Maga sympathizers are feeling nervous about what Trump is doing.  (Not MAGA, they are all in no matter). 

So 10 Dems decide voting for it is, to them, doing the right thing. 

I do think it's a close call.  I'd want my rep to vote against it. 

 

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  13 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

It's not a close call. It's not easy, but it's not a close call. The argument against a shutdown is that Dems don't really have any leverage anyway and letting the government shut down means Trump/Elon/Vought can choose to shut down whatever they want. But they're already doing that. Courts will continue to function but DOJ staff will be greatly reduced, and hobbling the DOJ's ability to defend Trump is a good thing, not a bad thing.

The argument for a shutdown is that Trump is weaker right now than he will be in six months if they let this CR pass. He's shocked a lot of people who still remember when things were actually pretty good just a couple of months ago and he's galvanized a furious opposition again. If Dems cave on this CR that opposition will splinter and another six months of Trump's insanity will cause a lot of people to just go numb and tune it all out. Besides, he and Elon and Vought have been shutting the government down for nearly two months already. Passing this CR will effectively ratify their crimes and essentially cede Article 1 powers to Trump. It will render Congress a rump institution. Better for Congress to just shut down and not operate and not fund anything for the next 3.5 years than that. That's not even getting into how the bill defunds DC's cops, probably so they can replace them with some ICE shitheads who will arrest any troublemaking protesters. 

And they don't really want a shutdown. Elon may sort of think he does occasionally, but he's a fucking idiot. If there's a shutdown Trump and the GOP will get the majority of the blame because the shit they're doing right now is wildly unpopular and people want it to stop. There's a reason the GOP unified to pass this fucking thing and it's not any 4d chess shit. Trump can't even fucking play checkers, much less chess, and is already talking about supporting a primary challenge against their lone holdout. He doesn't want a shutdown. These guys are fucking bullies, which means they're cowards. There's nothing a coward is more afraid of than someone fighting back. 

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i agree that it's not a "close call", but i understand why someone could characterize it that way. i would say it more like "i see both sides of it". it's also virtually impossible to say either side is definitely right or wrong right now, because we can't see into the future. we do know what's happening now and have the trajectory of what they want to happen. schumer needs to learn to put aside his 85 years of politics and base everything instead on the past 55 days.

stop worrying about the perception. stop thinking deals can be made. stop thinking this is the 1990's. nobody cares if people "tried to do the right thing for the people" if the people get fucked in the ass anyway. american citizens will remember the shitshow and the chaos and who was in charge at literally every level when that happened. dems no-votes on a budget cr won't be the reason america mysteriously slipped into fascism. it'll be a footnote.

trump and musk are crashing the plane into the mountain. we don't need our fingerprints on the control panel.

1. do your fucking job

2. send aoc, pete, bernie, warren, and walz to every available microphone, news program, or town hall.

3. end of list. 

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Posted

I’m a bit less sanguine about this, I think it’s really a shit sandwich versus giant douche. I’d feel better if there was a track record of Dems filling the void of crises with good messaging.  I’m also worried there’s no off-ramp. I lean more towards going ahead and having a fight and getting the GOP on the defensive for once.  I’m just not as confident that there’s a path to a win. 

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Posted (edited)
  9 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

 I’m just not as confident that there’s a path to a win. 

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they evil Republicans have already won, the point is that Dems must not participate in this dismantling of the government. that is the only message to make right now and they absolutely must make that message a consistent and loud one. if there's any time where accelerationism is called for, that time is now.

Edited by Gourmand
Posted
  9 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I’m a bit less sanguine about this, I think it’s really a shit sandwich versus giant douche. I’d feel better if there was a track record of Dems filling the void of crises with good messaging.  I’m also worried there’s no off-ramp. I lean more towards going ahead and having a fight and getting the GOP on the defensive for once.  I’m just not as confident that there’s a path to a win. 

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Schumer has really shot them all in the dick with his bungling of this. It'll be a lot harder to message now than if he hadn't handled this whole situation like a fucking dumbass. But ultimately Trump and the GOP will get a majority of the blame because they're pissing everyone off with their insanity right now and this is just gonna be connected to that. And if the Dems make a few popular demands (e.g. eliminate DOGE and get rid of Elon/Vought) and ultimately get a better CR passed any public hits they take from this will be long passed by the time the midterms roll around.

Posted

Relevant to the discussion:

Young Democrats’ Anger Boils Over as Schumer Retreats on Shutdown
A generational divide, seen in newer lawmakers’ impatience with bipartisanship and for colleagues who don’t understand new media, has emerged as one of the deepest rifts within the party.

Senator Chuck Schumer sitting in a chair in his office with his shoes off and talking into a phone.

  Quote

 

Senator Chuck Schumer’s sudden decision on Thursday to support a Republican-written bill to avert a government shutdown so enraged his fellow Democrats that some were already talking about primary challenges to the 74-year-old Democratic leader from New York.

The eruption of anger about Mr. Schumer’s seeming surrender thrust into public view a generational divide that has emerged as one of the Democratic Party’s deepest and most consequential rifts.

Younger Democrats are chafing at and increasingly complaining about what they see as the feebleness of the old guard’s efforts to push back against President Trump. They are second-guessing how the party’s leaders — like Mr. Schumer, who brandishes his flip phone as a point of pride — are communicating their message in the TikTok era, as Republicans dominate the digital town square.

And they are demanding that the party develop a bolder policy agenda that can answer the desperation of tens of millions of people who are struggling financially at a time when belief in the American dream is dimming.

In other words, the younger generation is done with deference.

Some who argue for more militancy in opposing Mr. Trump say the party’s elders tend to be less comfortable with the type of unbending political warfare that is called for.

“Our party needs more of a fighting spirit,” said Representative Chris Deluzio, a 40-year-old from outside Pittsburgh. “This is not a normal administration, and they’re willing to do dangerous things.”

The split is “not solely along generational lines,” he said. “But I do think the newer, younger members maybe get this intuitively.”

Mr. Deluzio said that Democrats elected before the Trump era tended to be shaped by fond recollections of comity and camaraderie across the aisle. “Those of us who are a little younger or have come to the Congress more recently, we don’t have the experience of some days of yore where things were more functional and the parties all got along,” he said.

Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, who burst onto the political scene by slaying a giant of the party in a 2018 primary challenge, pointedly declined to shoot down a question about a future primary against Mr. Schumer, who is not on the ballot again until 2028. Interviewed on CNN on Thursday, she called his turnabout on the legislation — which every Democrat in the House save one opposed — a “tremendous mistake” and urged him to reverse himself.

Each younger lawmaker’s prescriptions for the party may be different. But many of them speak of an imperative both to fight and to act. Representative Jake Auchincloss of Massachusetts, 37, said Democrats needed an ambitious strategy to address educational deficits caused by the coronavirus pandemic, promote housing construction and take on social media corporations that are fraying the social fabric.

“I’m interested in ideas. Do we have big ideas for how we’re going to govern better than Trump?” he said. “Younger lawmakers have that sense of urgency and ferocity.”

That urgency is also driving younger Democrats to try to usher their elders out of the way. Some older House Democrats have already been pushed out of key congressional posts. Younger primary challengers are laying the groundwork to try to oust more senior lawmakers from office entirely, with former Speaker Nancy Pelosi, 84, among those targeted.

And in private, 30- and 40-something lawmakers commiserate about having to decipher the mysteries of the internet for their older colleagues; one said she recently had to explain to another House member what a podcast was.

“The generation that got us to this point does not have the skills or stomach to get us to the next point,” said Amanda Litman, who leads Run for Something, a progressive group that recruits younger and more diverse Democrats to seek local office.

Ms. Litman said she had already heard from at least half a dozen young people — more than ever, she said — who are plotting congressional primary challenges in 2026.

“I would not be surprised to see, if not quite a Tea Party equivalent, a wave of challengers against old Democratic incumbents in particular,” Ms. Litman said. “It is not going to be ideological. It’s going to be style.”

A Biden hangover
A party that fatefully banked its fortunes in 2024 on an 81-year-old standard-bearer now sees reminders everywhere of the perils of relying on older leaders:

Representative John Larson of Connecticut, 76, freezing for more than a minute last month after suffering a “complex partial seizure” on the House floor.

Mr. Schumer and Representative Maxine Waters of California, 86, chanting “We will win!” in a demonstration that inspired little besides eye rolls and cringes among younger Democrats.

Or Representative Al Green of Texas, 77, waving his cane at Mr. Trump during the president’s address to a joint session of Congress. (“If the Democrats want a 77-year-old congressman to be the face of their resistance, heckling the president, then bring it on,” Speaker Mike Johnson, the chamber’s top Republican, chortled a day later.)

“It hangs a shadow over everything,” Tyson Brody, a Democratic strategist, said of the age issue. “And it becomes a very neat explanation for why we lost, and what needs to be fixed, that people of all ideologies can get behind. It’s a shortcut for ‘How do we rebrand Democrats?’”

Age, of course, is an imperfect way to measure all the varied Democratic disagreements.

Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, 83, has been barnstorming battleground states and drawing large crowds of young people as he makes his populist economic case against the Republicans.

On Thursday, Mr. Schumer explained his decision to vote to keep the government open in an opinion piece in The New York Times, a version of which he read on the Senate floor.

“As bad as passing the continuing resolution would be, I believe a government shutdown is far worse,” Mr. Schumer wrote.

A group of newer Democratic senators have disagreed with his approach, including Senator Elissa Slotkin of Michigan, 48, whom Mr. Schumer had pushed to deliver his party’s response to Mr. Trump’s congressional address this month.

Neither party has a monopoly on the gerontocracy: Senator Mitch McConnell, 83, the former Republican leader, recently announced he would not seek re-election. In December, former Representative Kay Granger, 82, a Texas Republican, was discovered to be residing in a senior living facility while still in office. And there is Mr. Trump, 78, who became the oldest person ever inaugurated as president.

Still, it is chiefly the Democrats who are grappling with the age issue, heading into the 2026 midterms with several 70-plus senators — Dick Durbin of Illinois (80), Ed Markey of Massachusetts (78), Jack Reed of Rhode Island (75) — either running for re-election or not yet ruling it out.

David Hogg, a 24-year-old recently elected as a vice chairman of the Democratic National Committee who has said since the election that Mr. Biden should not have run in 2024, said Democrats needed a youth movement.

“This is not to say that we don’t need experienced people in the party. We absolutely do,” Mr. Hogg said. “But for God’s sake, we really need some younger leaders, too.”

A survivor of the 2018 Parkland, Fla., school shooting who built a national profile speaking out against gun violence, Mr. Hogg said the Democrats were especially wanting for leaders capable of exploiting the media landscape as “the asset that it is” rather than “managing it as the liability it has become for many people in our party.”

“We only have one Gen Z member of Congress that has been elected in the last two elections,” he said, alluding to Maxwell Frost, 28, the Florida Democrat. “That’s insane.”

Indeed, younger Democrats tend to communicate with voters in ways that are more authentically online.

Representative Sara Jacobs of California, 36 — who said she recently had to explain what a podcast was to a Democratic colleague she would not name — has started posting “get ready with me” videos on Instagram discussing complex policy issues while applying makeup.

“Democrats won the people who watch cable news and read newspapers,” Ms. Jacobs said. “We lost the people who don’t feel like they’re part of politics at all. And so, how do we go to them, instead of keep trying to force them to come to us?”

‘Old versus the young’
The frustrations of younger House Democrats boiled over even before Mr. Trump took office, when three of them successfully challenged older, more senior colleagues for the posts of ranking member on the powerful Judiciary, Agriculture and Natural Resources Committees.

Of course, youth is relative in Congress: The top Democrat on Judiciary is now 62, instead of 77. And one of the ousted Democrats, Representative Raúl M. Grijalva of Arizona, died on Thursday.

A fourth House Democrat, Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, 35, lost her bid to lead Democrats on the Oversight Committee to Gerry Connolly of Virginia, 74, a month after he said he was battling esophageal cancer.

Representative Pat Ryan of New York, 42, who gave a nominating speech for Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, recalled that he had told his colleagues that while they did not agree on everything ideologically, she was the type of “fighter” the party needed now.

Mr. Ryan said the biggest factor in a lawmaker’s effectiveness was not age but length of service in Washington, with newer lawmakers more willing to take risks and able to present themselves fully and authentically.

“If you came up in the old world where you rose in the ranks slowly and carefully, that sort of gets almost trained out of you,” Mr. Ryan said. “Whereas if you came in post-Trump, you were really catalyzed by a lot of that rawness and emotion.”

Newer lawmakers are comparing notes, among other ways, through a text chain limited to House Democrats who have served five terms or fewer.

One incumbent Democrat who could face a 2026 challenger is Representative Stephen F. Lynch of Massachusetts, 69, who took office in 2001. After a woman pressed him at a Boston event last month to be more assertive against Mr. Trump, saying doing so was in the nation’s best interest, Mr. Lynch pushed back.

“I get to decide that,” Mr. Lynch said, repeating the phrase four times. “You want to decide that? You need to run for Congress.”

Among those who saw the exchange was Patrick Roath, 38, a lawyer and onetime aide to former Gov. Deval Patrick of Massachusetts, who said in an interview that he was considering a primary run against Mr. Lynch.

“It’s not an age thing explicitly,” Mr. Roath said. “But these jobs, they’re not meant to be held for decades.”

One declared challenger elsewhere is Saikat Chakrabarti, 39, a former chief of staff to Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, who is running against Ms. Pelosi in San Francisco.

“We’re in this crisis moment, and you’re seeing the seniority model of the Democratic Party falling apart,” Mr. Chakrabarti said.

The Democratic old guard, he argued, understands neither the depth of the nation’s troubles nor how intractable Republicans have become in solving them.

Ms. Ocasio-Cortez’s 2018 shocking upset of a senior House Democrat was “painted as left versus center,” he said. “It’s not that anymore. It’s change versus status quo now. It’s old versus the young.”

 

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Posted

Schumer was in a no win situation. One man’s fecklessness is another man’s pragmatism. Had a shut down gone on longer than 30 days, Trump could have declared thousands of federal workers to be nonessential and they would  have been fired with no recourse. The,Democrats who are being urged by James Carville to be “dignified” are awakening to the realization of a de-energized base fueled by in part by their refusal to fight when they can.



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