The Biden Cabinet

[softlynow 1783]

29 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

51 + filibuster reform gets it done.

We're not getting ANYTHING from Republicans. We won't get Medicare expansion. We won't get a public option. We won't get additional funding. We aren't getting any steps forward with Republicans, so that argument makes no sense.

It can't pass as long as we're under 51 in the Senate. Sure. Did I ever say we'd get it with a Republican Senate?

A question I beg you to answer: Will Biden get HIS non-universal plan without 51 in the Senate? Will the centrists get their plan?

Just need 50 + Harris for either filibuster reform or reconciliation. Manchin is a no-go on filibuster reform, so, file that away for later Congresses. Considering the VP is the gatekeeper for what gets through reconciliation, if Biden's plan can get 50, I'm sure his VP would allow it.

I'm not sure whether it'll happen, should the Georgia races produce a couple of miracles, but the chances are higher than the zero that is M4A in this Congress.

[bad_teammate 13132]

12 minutes ago, softlynow said:

Just need 50 + Harris for either filibuster reform or reconciliation. Manchin is a no-go on filibuster reform, so, file that away for later Congresses. Considering the VP is the gatekeeper for what gets through reconciliation, if Biden's plan can get 50, I'm sure his VP would allow it.

But she wouldn't allow M4A?

The "look, stupid leftist, you've got to be a smart strategist" stuff is always pretty fun when it becomes obvious that the smart strategist realizes he can't even get the compromise he wants out of Republicans. The answer is to mobilize the base, win the Senate, and unify under the banner of popular policies that actually solve the problems we face.

[washparkhorn 9935]

15 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

But she wouldn't allow M4A?

The "look, stupid leftist, you've got to be a smart strategist" stuff is always pretty fun when it becomes obvious that the smart strategist realizes he can't even get the compromise he wants out of Republicans. The answer is to mobilize the base, win the Senate, and unify under the banner of popular policies that actually solve the problems we face.

Amen.

And Manchin will bend the knee. West Virginia remains poor and economically ground down. West Virginia needs new ideas.

Spoiler

 

The industrial midwest is awakening and realizing Republicans are Regional Managers who know nothing about what is happening on the ground - and what is needed. The upper midwest will get bluer as normalcy returns. 

Bluer = healthcare is an infrastructure for Americans. Can't keep fucking around with that. It's time to get it done. (Farmers need to keep quiet on this front. Subsidies in that industry are corporate socialism - textbook. I understand you have benefited from socialism so your objection to it is not well founded. No offense - socialism has worked well in Ag for big farmers and Big Ag. Know your history.) 

 

Healthcare is needlessly divisive. 

[immamac 42519]

8 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

But she wouldn't allow M4A?

The "look, stupid leftist, you've got to be a smart strategist" stuff is always pretty fun when it becomes obvious that the smart strategist realizes he can't even get the compromise he wants out of Republicans. The answer is to mobilize the base, win the Senate, and unify under the banner of popular policies that actually solve the problems we face.

This is not a viable or winning strategy. 

1) concentration of power to one political party

2) trusting that those actors who are in power are actually going to negotiate in earnest

3) I have yet to see competent legislation from really anyone at the national level 

4) there is no accountability here, except to the monolith 

The problem isn't the policy, the problem isn't the party. The problem is that there is actually no work being done to propose legislation that is targeted to work for everyone, which has gone through a proper design and feasibility sniff test. 

Proposing and passing junk legislation is what happens in this scenario. The only way forward is to document and prove out policy and it's merits and why the policy is being proposed. Present it. Shame those who criticize and don't contribute to moving it forward. 

The goal should be to move forward. Shame those who don't want that or are being obstructionists. Publicly. Loudly. Relentlessly. 

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

The problem isn't the policy, the problem isn't the party. The problem is that there is actually no work being done to propose legislation that is targeted to work for everyone, which has gone through a proper design and feasibility sniff test. 

Proposing and passing junk legislation is what happens in this scenario. The only way forward is to document and prove out policy and it's merits and why the policy is being proposed. Present it. Shame those who criticize and don't contribute to moving it forward. 

The goal should be to move forward. Shame those who don't want that or are being obstructionists. Publicly. Loudly. Relentlessly.

You said "the problem isn't the party" and then listed a bunch of things that are the fault of the party.

[immamac 42519]

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

You said "the problem isn't the party" and then listed a bunch of things that are the fault of the party.

no, it's the people in the party dumbass. It's a people problem. 

[softlynow 1783]

12 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

But she wouldn't allow M4A?

She wouldn't reach the question because there aren't 50 Dem votes for M4A.

Quote

The "look, stupid leftist, you've got to be a smart strategist" stuff is always pretty fun when it becomes obvious that the smart strategist realizes he can't even get the compromise he wants out of Republicans.

On healthcare, it has almost always been true that you will get no GOP compromise. Your missing the part where a Dem majority necessarily means that there are red state Dems. Call them anything you want, they're not likely to back many progressive bills.

Quote

The answer is to mobilize the base, win the Senate, and unify under the banner of popular policies that actually solve the problems we face.

This is correct. Work needs to be done on the people's attitudes to get us to the point that progressive candidates in swing districts actually have a fighting chance. We just had confirmation that this isn't true. The fight continues, and I hope (though do not expect) for a better strategy to emerge soon.

That typed, while we may be on a tangent, this is a thread about governing after the 2020 election. With a couple races left, in which Dems are not the favorites let alone progressive policies, it's obvious that progressive steps will not be taken by the incoming government. It's time to consider the best way for that government to actually improve the lives of its constituents.

And a final aside: M4A has an enormous hurdle to clear in that even quite liberal people would be hesitant to see their own health insurance torpedoed for the uncertainty of what universal Medicare would become.

[bad_teammate 13132]

7 minutes ago, immamac said:

no, it's the people in the party dumbass. It's a people problem. 

A distinction without difference.

6 minutes ago, softlynow said:

She wouldn't reach the question because there aren't 50 Dem votes for M4A.

1) You don't know that. Neither Sinema nor Manchin have said they'd vote against it.
2) Are there 50 Dem votes for Biden's public option plan?

Quote

This is correct. Work needs to be done on the people's attitudes to get us to the point that progressive candidates in swing districts actually have a fighting chance. We just had confirmation that this isn't true. The fight continues, and I hope (though do not expect) for a better strategy to emerge soon.

No, we didn't. A bunch of Dems who didn't run on M4A lost in swing districts. Name the M4A-promoters who lost in swing districts.

[immamac 42519]

12 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

A distinction without difference.

1) You don't know that. Neither Sinema nor Manchin have said they'd vote against it.
2) Are there 50 Dem votes for Biden's public option plan?

No, we didn't. A bunch of Dems who didn't run on M4A lost in swing districts. Name the M4A-promoters who lost in swing districts.

You realize that people in both parties are guilty of the exact same thing?

I haven't seen any legislation that is just getting shot down for no reason at all. It's all bullshit trash legislation. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

I knew it was going to be bad, but sometimes even I get a bit of a surprise.  

 

 

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

The same old cronies and scum. Recycled.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Wish I was better at tracking down the posts that assured me Biden was better for the environment.  But, it would do no good. Somehow they'd just say I'm being unreasonable and naive.

 

[Js1 85110]

Nah, you're both just annoying af.

[bad_teammate 13132]

Just vote for Joe and then push him to do better!

[Texaspython 231]

3 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Wish I was better at tracking down the posts that assured me Biden was better for the environment.  But, it would do no good. Somehow they'd just say I'm being unreasonable and naive.

 

Just keep going hysterical over a transition team. Time well spent.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Just now, Texaspython said:

Just keep going hysterical over a transition team. Time well spent.

Like clockwork.

[Texaspython 231]

Highly recommend putting b_t on ignore. 

[henrygandorf 29177]

10 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Wish I was better at tracking down the posts that assured me Biden was better for the environment.  But, it would do no good. Somehow they'd just say I'm being unreasonable and naive.

better than who?  better than trump?  better than other dems who ran against him in the primary?  there weren't many (any?) biden supporters around here 10-12 months ago, for reasons both person and policy.  i don't think there's any doubt he'll be better than trump, but that's saying literally nothing.

the question is who he'll put in charge when the cabinet is actually assembled.  hopefully some of these transition pieces are trial balloons and people with a brain will say, "ok, we got a lot of pushback on this, so maybe we should do x y z instead."  not saying that will happen, but it would be nice.

[Huckleberry 32703]

Just now, henrygandorf said:

better than who?  better than trump?  better than other dems who ran against him in the primary?  there weren't many (any?) biden supporters around here 10-12 months ago, for reasons both person and policy.  i don't think there's any doubt he'll be better than trump, but that's saying literally nothing.

the question is who he'll put in charge when the cabinet is actually assembled.  hopefully some of these transition pieces are trial balloons and people with a brain will say, "ok, we got a lot of pushback on this, so maybe we should do x y z instead."  not saying that will happen, but it would be nice.

Well seeing how the pushback is going here (more complaining about the pushback than about the actual terrible appointment) you should be able to figure out how that will probably go. 

[henrygandorf 29177]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

Well seeing how the pushback is going here (more complaining about the pushback than about the actual terrible appointment) you should be able to figure out how that will probably go. 

i personally think the pushback on the 1000+ volunteer army of transition advisers is a waste of time and angst, but they're not looking for my opinion.  i would hope they're getting pushback from people they actually care about.  did the dupont guy get appointed to a position that matters, or is he just named as part of the transition advisory team?  i didn't read the article.

[Js1 85110]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i personally think the pushback on the 1000+ volunteer army of transition advisers is a waste of time and angst, but they're not looking for my opinion.  i would hope they're getting pushback from people they actually care about.  did the dupont guy get appointed to a position that matters, or is he just named as part of the transition advisory team?  i didn't read the article.

If you read the article, he's a former EPA administrator. 

Considering no one in the Trump admin is working with Biden's team on the actual transition, a former EPA administrator on the transition team seems like an asset to review how the agency works and how to get things ready to go for the new EPA guy on day 1.

But I don't expect the outrage committee to think about things. 

[Biff Tannen 45497]

24 minutes ago, Texaspython said:

Highly recommend putting b_t on ignore. 

Did that after the primaries.  It was a good choice.

[Biff Tannen 45497]

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

If you read the article, he's a former EPA administrator. 

Considering no one in the Trump admin is working with Biden's team on the actual transition, a former EPA administrator on the transition team seems like an asset to review how the agency works and how to get things ready to go for the new EPA guy on day 1.

But I don't expect the outrage committee to think about things. 

Agreed and I say this with environmental issues as my number one concern by a huge margin.

[washparkhorn 9935]

27 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Nah, you're both just annoying af.

I thought you were self-exiled from the CR until the election is over. Rudy says the election is not over.  

 

 

[Js1 85110]

2 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

I thought you were self-exiled from the CR until the election is over. Rudy says the election is not over.  

 

 

I self-exiled through the Democratic Convention but decided taking the entire election season off was way better.  Truly worth it now, this is prime time comedy. 

[Tuco 5076]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

A distinction without difference.

1) You don't know that. Neither Sinema nor Manchin have said they'd vote against it.
2) Are there 50 Dem votes for Biden's public option plan?

No, we didn't. A bunch of Dems who didn't run on M4A lost in swing districts. Name the M4A-promoters who lost in swing districts.

Kara Eastman, NE-2

 

Edit: more shit in that election than M4A, but the issue was central to her campaign. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Tuco

[washparkhorn 9935]

6 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I self-exiled through the Democratic Convention but decided taking the entire election season off was way better.  Truly worth it now, this is prime time comedy. 

 

glad to have you back. Thanks for supporting the cause under the strictures of posting in DT. Trumpkins need someone to speak to them; it is better for our society if they have some lifeline to reality. You did that well. 

You would work well as a reeducator in a trumpkin rehab camp helping them readjust to society.  Jobs available at Denver International Airport.

Edited November 19, 2020 by washparkhorn

[Tuco 5076]

44 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Wish I was better at tracking down the posts that assured me Biden was better for the environment.  But, it would do no good. Somehow they'd just say I'm being unreasonable and naive.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that Biden and Trump are equal on the environment.  Go fuck yourself. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 minute ago, Tuco said:

Kara Eastman, NE-2

There we go. Keep 'em coming!

[Tuco 5076]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

There we go. Keep 'em coming!

Why?  If I am recalling correctly, there were 38 "red to blue" Congressional candidates.  One of them won by the Friday after election day, two others were too close to call.  Some of them were progressive.  Some of them were moderate.  Some for M4A, some were closer to Biden.  They mostly got wiped the fuck out.  If you want to claim some sort of pattern here, I'll let you run the numbers.  It was not a good election for Dems and it had practically nothing to do with their individual policy positions on health care.  If you have a theory it did, feel free to present the evidence. 

 

[Huckleberry 32703]

30 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i would hope they're getting pushback from people they actually care about. 

So you recognize that they don't care about pushback from progressives but are still hopeful (unsure? curious?) that they'll listen to pushback from progressives. That doesn't make much sense. 

[henrygandorf 29177]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

So you recognize that they don't care about pushback from progressives but are still hopeful (unsure? curious?) that they'll listen to pushback from progressives. That doesn't make much sense. 

i guess i worded that a little too vague.

i don't think they care about pushback from progressives on twitter.  i would hope they care about pushback (if there is any) from people whose opinions they trust in their inner circle, progressive or otherwise.  you don't have to be progressive to tell the transition team, "hey, i don't love the optics we're creating or the message we're sending by selecting this guy or that woman, maybe we should go in a different way."

when i shit on that tweet last week about the volunteer advisory committees, i was highlighting that tweets like that are counterproductive.  it's the boy who cried wolf all over again.  if progressives have a meltdown over every move, then it's hard to take any of them seriously when they have a good point to make.  it all blends together into one big noise that becomes increasingly easier to ignore.

i'm sure at some point (it's likely already happened) a moderate/centrist type in biden's world has said, "they complain about everything, and there's no pleasing them, so fuck it, don't listen to any of it."  if he does what he said he'd do, and includes the bernie's of the world in the conversations, then you'd hope he'd get some good names on his desk.  but hope is a dangerous thing.

[bad_teammate 13132]

If you're progressive you're not in the inner circle.

[Mole 4320]

On 11/18/2020 at 12:19 AM, Llogg said:

Ultimately people are fucking idiots and your argument is that the left should cater to the fucking idiots.

This seems like a pretty good political philosophy.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Lael Brainard will be Biden’s Treasury Secretary.

This is my prediction.

[Js1 85110]

That was also my pick.  Could also be Yellen. 

[Hank Scorpio 17723]

Whoever it is, we’re all gonna love it! 
 

 

[washparkhorn 9935]

I get there is a surly-vibe against Glenn Greenwald, for some reason not readily apparent to me - but that's my responsibility.

Greenwald argues the new Democratic Coalition is/has formed and what it means for the US and the world. His tone is not the kindness progressives promised, but Greenwald isn't a progressive. Posted in peace and kindness (to all, right, centrist or left). How this cabinet will shake out depends on the coalition put together. 

Quote

 

Afghanistan Withdrawal Shows Its Key Factions 

An unholy union of the National Security State and the neocon-backed and corporate-funded Democratic Party are about to assume power: with media-supported internet censorship a key weapon.

Glenn Greenwald

11 hr ago

The Trump era has engendered numerous fractures, one might say realignments, in the political order. Long-time ideological allies are now adversaries, and long-time political enemies are now in full-fledged coalitions. These shifts are not temporary or Trump-dependent but enduring, because they are grounded in shared core beliefs about the defining debates shaping our new politics and how to consolidate real power: call it the Lincoln Project Syndrome.

 

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-new-ruling-coalition-opposition

 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Greenwald has been sniffing his own farts for too long and has lost his mind.

He’s just another grifter.

[SizzleChest 8275]

6 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Whoever it is, we’re all gonna love it! 
 

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/possible-biden-appointee-roger-ferguson-to-retire-as-ceo-of-tiaa-finance-firm-11605623400?mod=e2twp

[Satchel 6908]

1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

Greenwald has been sniffing his own farts for too long and has lost his mind.

He’s just another grifter.

This^

[henrygandorf 29177]

tony blinken for state?

[G650 14107]

9 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

I get there is a surly-vibe against Glenn Greenwald, for some reason not readily apparent to me - but that's my responsibility.

Because he has become mentally unstable.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Such substantive critiques of Greenwald.  Very eye opening.

Glen’s biggest fan is Glen, but I don’t know if that is atypical of anyone famous in the world of political commentary.   IMO, he also gets bogged down in a lot of Twitter fights that are about as productive as bbs fights.

 He has pissed off a lot of mainstream media types and the reaction was predictable, including hit pieces that apparently landed with many. I do not watch cable news so maybe I missed him saying something stupid in a standard cable news yelling match.  But he sure can write.

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by MC Fresh Breath

[washparkhorn 9935]

9 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Greenwald has been sniffing his own farts for too long and has lost his mind.

He’s just another grifter.

 

7 hours ago, Satchel said:

This^

As for his personality - he is reminiscent of Gust Avrakotos to me:

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

Glenn Greenwald has broken (at least!) two of the most important scandal/corruption stories in the Western world in the last 4 decades. Throwing stupid cancel culture lingo at him is laughable.

He's arrogant. He's annoying. He's not a loyal partisan weapon. His laziness or arrogance (probably this) burned Reality Winner. There's a lot to hate about Glenn Greenwald.

But here's what actually matters: He's right way more than he's wrong.

For instance, here are some beautiful pieces of correctness from that piece:

--------

That’s why the millions of Americans who, due to fear of Trump, began paying close attention to politics and consuming news products only in 2016 were such easy marks for peddling fear-mongering narratives and revisionism: because they lacked the crucial historical context in which to place Trump and understand his ascension to the presidency.

--------

And thus did this union of pro-war Democrats, Cheney-led neocons, the intelligence community and their chosen mainstream media outlets succeed in providing the perfectly crafted tool at the most opportune moment to justify blocking an end to America’s longest war. That is precisely the same coalition that drowned U.S. politics for more than three years in the sustained, monomaniacal disinformation campaign about Putin’s takeover of the U.S.

--------

Democratic national security luminaries have spent the last four years formally uniting with Bush/Cheney neocons to prepare to take power in a new Democratic administration (though it must be remembered that neocons, as this 2014 New York Times Op-Ed by Jacob Heilbrunn explained, saw the writing on the wall long before Trump that the growing anti-war strain in the GOP (as evidenced by the success of Ron Paul’s candidacy) meant that their best hope for a posture of Endless War resided in re-migrating back to what they thought at the time would be the Hillary-run Democratic Party).

The other key components of this coalition are Silicon Valley giants and Wall Street, both of which overwhelmingly donated to the Biden/Harris campaign and the Democratic Party generally. The primary weapon tech companies offer is not just huge sums of money — though that of course is welcomed and useful — but information control: I continue to regard the decision of Twitter and Facebook to block and suppress the ability to disseminate The New York Post story on Hunter Biden’s laptop as one of the most shocking and alarming events of the last four years: political censorship cheered by most of the pro-Biden press.

--------

[kevwun 15653]

Quote

I continue to regard the decision of Twitter and Facebook to block and suppress the ability to disseminate The New York Post story on Hunter Biden’s laptop as one of the most shocking and alarming events of the last four years: political censorship cheered by most of the pro-Biden press.

That's all you need to know about Glenn Greenwald.  He's pissed that the media refused to spread conspiracy theories that would have helped Donald Trump's re-election chances.  I don't give a shit what he did in the past.  He's a Donald Trump supporter now.

Edited November 20, 2020 by kevwun

[Js1 85110]

 

[Biff Tannen 45497]

48 minutes ago, kevwun said:

That's all you need to know about Glenn Greenwald.  He's pissed that the media refused to spread conspiracy theories that would have helped Donald Trump's re-election chances.  I don't give a shit what he did in the past.  He's a Donald Trump supporter now.

yep.  tried to bring up this point to my Joe Rogan listening buddy.  when you allow shit like this on your show, you are complicit.

[Bama Chick 28596]

And he willingly allows himself to be used by Tucker Fucking Carlson.

He’s an insane hack.