the trump election lawsuit thread of dominance

[Js1 85,320]

6 minutes ago, msbesq said:

According to a friend of mine tied into Republican politics, Cruz plans on objecting to each elector from the contested states to try to run out the clock to January 14th, at which time it would go to the House to be voted on by a state by state basis, which would hand the election to Trump. The New Yorker has an article about this strategy online.

Jan 14 isn't a thing.  Donald Trump will never be President on January 20th.  It will be Joe Biden or, if they continue to fuck around and find out, Nancy Pelosi as 3rd in line. 

[Irwin F Fletcher 3,550]

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/trump-and-republicans-in-congress-could-still-jeopardize-the-election

From the article

Quote

 Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley—have said that they intend to challenge the counting of swing states’ electoral votes for Biden on the floor of Congress, on January 6th. This means that the day’s proceedings will not be perfunctory. Real conflict may ensue. While some of these Republicans have acknowledged that the effort will fail to result in Trump’s reëlection, lawmakers who do not support the effort to challenge votes will need to keep their wits about them.

 

 

According to the Electoral Count Act, the fact that states certified their elections and appointed their electors by December 8th, six days before the meeting of the electors, means that those determinations “shall be conclusive.” But what does that mean? There has been little to no occasion for courts to interpret the statute since it was enacted, in the nineteenth century. Republicans could try to object to counting the electoral votes of each state in which Republicans have challenged Biden’s win by claiming fraud, irregularity, or unlawful election procedures. If Republicans were to attempt to drag out the January 6th joint session by objecting to individual states’ electoral votes one by one, and thereby triggering the two houses’ separate, hours-long debates on each of them, then it is possible, though unlikely, that the business of counting the votes wouldn’t be concluded in five days, at which point the Electoral Count Act says that the recesses for debating objections to votes must end.

 

At that point, the electoral votes that have been officially counted for Biden might not yet have reached the threshold of two hundred and seventy votes. At such a juncture, it is possible that some Republicans might attempt a maneuver to abuse the process provided in federal law, by insisting on reverting to the Twelfth Amendment’s provision that, if no candidate has a majority of electoral votes, “the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President.” This amendment says that, in the House, “the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote”—that is, each state casts its vote as a delegation. That could well result in Trump’s reёlection, because there are more Republican than Democratic state delegations in the House, even though Democrats have a majority of representatives there. Such an outright destruction of democracy by our elective representatives would make the question of Trump’s criminal liability seem like small potatoes. But, of course, his democracy-belittling behavior, cavalier and persistent, tolerated and reinforced by members of his party over time, is what has made it possible to even envision such an unlikely calamity occurring.

Fuck Ted Cruz

[Buzzrock 14,920]

According to a friend of mine tied into Republican politics, Cruz plans on objecting to each elector from the contested states to try to run out the clock to January 14th, at which time it would go to the House to be voted on by a state by state basis, which would hand the election to Trump. The New Yorker has an article about this strategy online.

That sounds like something my Trumper dad would say. I don’t buy it.

[Captainant 27,660]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Jan 14 isn't a thing.  Donald Trump will never be President on January 20th.  It will be Joe Biden or, if they continue to fuck around and find out, Nancy Pelosi as 3rd in line. 

Yeah, if cruz's plan is to logjam the process and force a vote in the House... Couldn't madame speaker just logjam it in the house and become President herself? 

I agree with Buzz, sounds like bullshit

[atomheartbevo 89,659]

11 minutes ago, msbesq said:

According to a friend of mine tied into Republican politics, Cruz plans on objecting to each elector from the contested states to try to run out the clock to January 14th, at which time it would go to the House to be voted on by a state by state basis, which would hand the election to Trump. The New Yorker has an article about this strategy online.

Not buying it at all.  First, the states certified their votes - Cruz and Co. can't repeat the Compromise of 1877, where states had not actually resolved their electoral vote issue.   The states have certified those votes and sent them off, and they were counted last month.  All 50  states have signed off on their votes.  Second, Cruz and Co. are outnumber by their fellow, slightly saner, Republicans and Democrats in the Senate.   

And if Cruz tries to push things that far, it will be a bloodbath at the polls for Republicans in '22.

Remember, this is not about Cruz trying to get Trump another term, this is about Cruz trying to keep the spotlight off of Hawley and setup Cruz's '24 run.

 In fact, another Trump term would be counterproductive for Cruz, because it potentially sets up Trump's VP to run for the nomination in '24, and more importantly, a Republican would not win in '24 - it'd be like thinking a Republican could win in '08 after W fucked around in Iraq.

It's far easier for Cruz or Hawley to win in '24, after four years of OMG SOCIALIST MARXIST GUNGRABBING ATHEISTS!

[6th Street 6,392]

18 minutes ago, msbesq said:

According to a friend of mine tied into Republican politics, Cruz plans on objecting to each elector from the contested states to try to run out the clock to January 14th, at which time it would go to the House to be voted on by a state by state basis, which would hand the election to Trump. The New Yorker has an article about this strategy online.

Lol that's not a thing 

[Js1 85,320]

10 minutes ago, Irwin F Fletcher said:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/trump-and-republicans-in-congress-could-still-jeopardize-the-election

From the article

Fuck Ted Cruz

Section 7 (now 3 U.S.C. § 16) states that the joint session cannot be dissolved "until the count of electoral votes shall be completed and the result declared."^[44] No recess can be taken "unless a question shall have arisen in regard to counting any such votes, or otherwise under [Title 3, Chapter 1]," in which case either House, acting separately, can recess itself until 10:00 am the next day (Sunday excepted).^[44] But if the counting of the electoral votes and the declaration of the result have not been completed before the fifth calendar day after the joint session began, "no further or other recess shall be taken by either House."^[44]

The actual law reads as though they can recess overnight until after the fifth calendar day, at which point they cannot recess and have to work until its finished.  If they don't finish by Jan 20 at 12:01pm, Nancy Pelosi is president. 

[Irwin F Fletcher 3,550]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

Section 7 (now 3 U.S.C. § 16) states that the joint session cannot be dissolved "until the count of electoral votes shall be completed and the result declared."^[44] No recess can be taken "unless a question shall have arisen in regard to counting any such votes, or otherwise under [Title 3, Chapter 1]," in which case either House, acting separately, can recess itself until 10:00 am the next day (Sunday excepted).^[44] But if the counting of the electoral votes and the declaration of the result have not been completed before the fifth calendar day after the joint session began, "no further or other recess shall be taken by either House."^[44]

The actual law reads as though they can recess overnight until after the fifth calendar day, at which point they cannot recess and have to work until its finished.  If they don't finish by Jan 20 at 12:01pm, Nancy Pelosi is president. 

Thanks for clarifying. I still hold to my original thought however, fuck Ted Cruz.

[TXSG8R 3,362]

6 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Not buying it at all.  First, the states certified their votes - Cruz and Co. can't repeat the Compromise of 1877, where states had not actually resolved their electoral vote issue.   The states have certified those votes and sent them off, and they were counted last month.  All 50  states have signed off on their votes.  Second, Cruz and Co. are outnumber by their fellow, slightly saner, Republicans and Democrats in the Senate.   

And if Cruz tries to push things that far, it will be a bloodbath at the polls for Republicans in '22.

Remember, this is not about Cruz trying to get Trump another term, this is about Cruz trying to keep the spotlight off of Hawley and setup Cruz's '24 run.

 In fact, another Trump term would be counterproductive for Cruz, because it potentially sets up Trump's VP to run for the nomination in '24, and more importantly, a Republican would not win in '24 - it'd be like thinking a Republican could win in '08 after W fucked around in Iraq.

It's far easier for Cruz or Hawley to win in '24, after four years of OMG SOCIALIST MARXIST GUNGRABBING ATHEISTS!

And more so if the dems can get the senate too. More passed legislation = more shit for Rs to rage about in 2024.  THEY DECRIMINALIZED THE DEVILS LETTUCE!  WHATS NEXT, EATING BABIES?

[lemonlime 5,503]

6 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Not buying it at all.  First, the states certified their votes - Cruz and Co. can't repeat the Compromise of 1877, where states had not actually resolved their electoral vote issue.   The states have certified those votes and sent them off, and they were counted last month.  All 50  states have signed off on their votes.  Second, Cruz and Co. are outnumber by their fellow, slightly saner, Republicans and Democrats in the Senate.   

And if Cruz tries to push things that far, it will be a bloodbath at the polls for Republicans in '22.

Remember, this is not about Cruz trying to get Trump another term, this is about Cruz trying to keep the spotlight off of Hawley and setup Cruz's '24 run.

 In fact, another Trump term would be counterproductive for Cruz, because it potentially sets up Trump's VP to run for the nomination in '24, and more importantly, a Republican would not win in '24 - it'd be like thinking a Republican could win in '08 after W fucked around in Iraq.

It's far easier for Cruz or Hawley to win in '24, after four years of OMG SOCIALIST MARXIST GUNGRABBING ATHEISTS!

If Cruz pulls this off, there won't ever be a free and fair election again.  There will be bloodshed if he pulls it off, but this won't end in democracy continuing.

[wildcat09 29,353]

29 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

It was apparently a misquote. 

 

 

That's not a misquote, it's Grassley being old as shit and accidentally revealing something they didn't want to reveal yet, followed by his office trying to cover it up.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

My understanding according to Madison’s notes is the guys that wrote the constitution didn’t expect presidential candidates to win a majority of the electoral college votes often because they believed there would be more than two competitive candidates in most presidential elections.  (boy were they wrong)

They wrestled with how to settle this in Congress. At first, they floated the idea of having the Senate decide the winner by vote but some argued this gave too much power to the Senate b/c the President would end up being little more than a puppet of the Senate.  

So they basically rigged the tiebreaker rules in the House to produce the same outcome as a Senate vote by making the House vote by state.  
 

Constitutional scholars please correct me if I got any of this wrong. 

[Js1 85,320]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

My understanding according to Madison’s notes is the guys that wrote the constitution didn’t expect presidential candidates to win a majority of the electoral college votes often because they believed there would be more than two competitive candidates in most presidential elections.  (boy were they wrong)

They wrestled with how to settle this in Congress. At first, they floated the idea of having the Senate decide the winner by vote but some argued this gave too much power to the Senate b/c the President would end up being little more than a puppet of the Senate.  

So they basically rigged the tiebreaker rules in the House to produce the same outcome as a Senate vote by making the House vote by state.  
 

Constitutional scholars please correct me if I got any of this wrong. 

Too bad they didn't have the foresight to account for gerrymandering.

[atomheartbevo 89,659]

7 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

If Cruz pulls this off, there won't ever be a free and fair election again.  There will be bloodshed if he pulls it off, but this won't end in democracy continuing.

Cruz is doing this not to keep Trump in office, but to keep the spotlight off of Hawley, and to setup a Cruz campaign in 2024.  Cruz benefits from a Trump loss, but at the same time he also has to pretend that he fought a good fight in order to curry favor with Trump and Trump supporters, mores than Hawley.  And make no mistake, Hawley is fucking pissed at Cruz taking his attention.  Hell, look at Hawley's "OMG ANTIFA RUSHED MY HOUSE" nonsense.  He's desperate.

In fact, Cruz needs a Trump loss if he wants a chance at 2024.  Cruz maybe only 50 and still young, but he needs four years of Biden/Harris if he wants a chance to win, and he can't fuck around until 2028, because that gives Hawley more time to build up his base and profile, and more importantly, who knows how many more Josh Hawley's will show up over the next 8 years.

And lest we forget, nearly 200 companies basically told Congress to shut the fuck up and move forward with Biden.   Those are companies/donors/lobbyists that people like Cruz need.

And Cruz is turning into Jabba the Cruz, which is not a flattering look for him.  He's already got genetics working against him, and age is doing him no favors.

[lemonlime 5,503]

3 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Cruz is doing this not to keep Trump in office, but to keep the spotlight off of Hawley, and to setup a Cruz campaign in 2024.  Cruz benefits from a Trump loss, but at the same time he also has to pretend that he fought a good fight in order to curry favor with Trump and Trump supporters, mores than Hawley.  And make no mistake, Hawley is fucking pissed at Cruz taking his attention.  Hell, look at Hawley's "OMG ANTIFA RUSHED MY HOUSE" nonsense.  He's desperate.

In fact, Cruz needs a Trump loss if he wants a chance at 2024.  Cruz maybe only 50 and still young, but he needs four years of Biden/Harris if he wants a chance to win, and he can't fuck around until 2028, because that gives Hawley more time to build up his base and profile, and more importantly, who knows how many more Josh Hawley's will show up over the next 8 years.

And lest we forget, nearly 200 companies basically told Congress to shut the fuck up and move forward with Biden.   Those are companies/donors/lobbyists that people like Cruz need.

And Cruz is turning into Jabba the Cruz, which is not a flattering look for him.  He's already got genetics working against him, and age is doing him no favors.

This is all an ego thing, and I don't think Cruz or Hawley expects it to work.  But they aren't at all worried about the 2022 election or the 2024 election.  If this works, there won't be a free and fair election in 2022 or 2024.  If this doesn't work, then their egos are satisfied and they built up cred with their moronic base and they'll be seen as traitors by the non-morons.  Exactly where they're at right now anyway.

[Buzzrock 14,920]

Cruz is doing this not to keep Trump in office, but to keep the spotlight off of Hawley, and to setup a Cruz campaign in 2024.  Cruz benefits from a Trump loss, but at the same time he also has to pretend that he fought a good fight in order to curry favor with Trump and Trump supporters, mores than Hawley.  And make no mistake, Hawley is fucking pissed at Cruz taking his attention.  Hell, look at Hawley's "OMG ANTIFA RUSHED MY HOUSE" nonsense.  He's desperate.
In fact, Cruz needs a Trump loss if he wants a chance at 2024.  Cruz maybe only 50 and still young, but he needs four years of Biden/Harris if he wants a chance to win, and he can't fuck around until 2028, because that gives Hawley more time to build up his base and profile, and more importantly, who knows how many more Josh Hawley's will show up over the next 8 years.
And lest we forget, nearly 200 companies basically told Congress to shut the fuck up and move forward with Biden.   Those are companies/donors/lobbyists that people like Cruz need.
And Cruz is turning into Jabba the Cruz, which is not a flattering look for him.  He's already got genetics working against him, and age is doing him no favors.

Appearances don’t matter. See: McConnell, Mitch.

[Biff Tannen 45,679]

If they somehow made this happen (they can't) it would be an actual uprising of millions.  Not this proud boy wannabe army thing.  We would see a general strike and shit would hit the fan.

[atomheartbevo 89,659]

1 minute ago, lemonlime said:

This is all an ego thing, and I don't think Cruz or Hawley expects it to work.  But they aren't at all worried about the 2022 election or the 2024 election. 

Cruz is 100% worried about 2024.  He would not have joined in and taken this movement over if he wasn't concerned that Hawley would run in 2024.

Hawley is younger, better looking, has a family that loves him, is more charismatic/well-spoken than Cruz (admittedly not a high bar).

For months, people right here on Surly have been talking about how Hawley is dangerous in that he can take Trumpism and put a better face/spin on it, and keep the base energized.  Cruz recognizes this.

Cruz felt 2016 should have been his to win, and he really believes that he should be the next Republican President.  2024 is going to be his big chance.

[atomheartbevo 89,659]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

If they somehow made this happen (they can't) it would be an actual uprising of millions.  Not this proud boy wannabe army thing.  We would see a general strike and shit would hit the fan.

And we'd get President Pelosi.

[jimmyjazz 45,917]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

If they somehow made this happen (they can't) it would be an actual uprising of millions.  Not this proud boy wannabe army thing.  We would see a general strike and shit would hit the fan.

A true "fuck around and find out" moment in time.

[Eskimohorn 5,635]

Too bad they didn't have the foresight to account for gerrymandering.

Elbridge Thomas Gerry was an American politician and diplomat. As a Democratic-Republican he served as the fifth vice president of the United States under President James Madison from March 1813 until his death in November 1814. The political practice of gerrymandering is named after him.

[Buzzrock 14,920]

And we'd get President Pelosi.

Which would honestly be ROFL hilarious.

[atomheartbevo 89,659]

2 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Appearances don’t matter. See: McConnell, Mitch.

Mitch ain't running for Prez.  Appearances do matter.  Plenty of Trumpkins genuinely admired and wanted to be like Trump.

Cruz?  LOL.

[lemonlime 5,503]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

If they somehow made this happen (they can't) it would be an actual uprising of millions.  Not this proud boy wannabe army thing.  We would see a general strike and shit would hit the fan.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this board, or in general these days.  The GOP is trying to overturn the election.  The president wants the VP to unilaterally select the next president, cause why have a fucking election anyway.  The so-called president also asked the Georgia Secretary of State to fabricate votes in his favor.  Meanwhile, we're debating Covid relief, the Dems prospects in the House in 2022, etc.  We are the frogs and we've been boiled.

[Red Five 40,857]

2 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

Which would honestly be ROFL hilarious.

 

The spin the R's would put on that would be amazing to see. "Pelosi stole the presidency from Trump!". 

[Buzzrock 14,920]

It’s possible to hold multiple streams of thought in one’s head.

[Buzzrock 14,920]

The spin the R's would put on that would be amazing to see. "Pelosi stole the presidency from Trump!". 

“They tricked us! It ain’t fair!”

[Pato del Muerto 52,492]

6 minutes ago, Red Five said:

The spin the R's would put on that would be amazing to see. "Pelosi stole the presidency from Trump!". 

And in 10 years time they’d be trying to take credit for getting the first female president into office. 

[Guest Lobo]

7 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Cruz is 100% worried about 2024.  He would not have joined in and taken this movement over if he wasn't concerned that Hawley would run in 2024.

Hawley is younger, better looking, has a family that loves him, is more charismatic/well-spoken than Cruz (admittedly not a high bar).

For months, people right here on Surly have been talking about how Hawley is dangerous in that he can take Trumpism and put a better face/spin on it, and keep the base energized.  Cruz recognizes this.

Cruz felt 2016 should have been his to win, and he really believes that he should be the next Republican President.  2024 is going to be his big chance.

Ted really did think for a couple of months that the tide had shifted in his direction.  He just did not appreciate what Trump was building online/behind-the-scenes.  Which is doubly ironic because the first serious federal candidate to build his campaign around that type of data collection/Cambridge Analytica shit was Cruz to defeat Dewhurst using the social media models built by John Drogin (who ran Cruz's 2012 Campaign).  But they had no idea what it could be possibly used to do beyond winning a Senate seat or governorship.  Cruz didn't realize what else you could tap into if you abandoned all sense of ethics, that you could fundamentally change the trajectory of the electorate for a generation or more.  That was Drogin's mistake, which is why he has largely left politics aside from a token state directorship in one of Cruz's field offices.  But I'll still give them credit for what they pioneered at the start.  

There's gonna be every possible Trump stooge jockeying for position in 2024, Trump himself won't be available (maybe one of his kids though).  That's all tomorrow is about.  But if we're gonna game this shit out, what I think happens is Cruz just doesn't have the horses for a serious POTUS nomination attempt.  Plus he'd be running to keep his Senate seat (he will not pull the much vaunted, "I will resign my seat to focus on winning the White House back for my party, and for my country!).  Plus who knows who the Texas Governor would appoint in his place, probably a George P. Bush?  I think Cruz's deal will be to get back into the primaries and drop out eventually and the cut the deal he's wanted for a long while---I'll endorse you and campaign for you and go away quietly---but Thomas or Alito will retire during your first term, Mr. new GOP President.  And that seat is mine.  Otherwise, all bets are off.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

43 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Too bad they didn't have the foresight to account for gerrymandering.

Derp- Eskimo beat me to it

Edited January 5, 2021 by Hugo Stiglitz

[atomheartbevo 89,659]

13 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this board, or in general these days.  The GOP is trying to overturn the election.  The president wants the VP to unilaterally select the next president, cause why have a fucking election anyway.  The so-called president also asked the Georgia Secretary of State to fabricate votes in his favor.  Meanwhile, we're debating Covid relief, the Dems prospects in the House in 2022, etc.  We are the frogs and we've been boiled.

The Georgia Secretary of State and the top Georgia election official basically told Trump to fuck off.  And they did it publicly.  Mitch congratulated Biden (in his own way) back in December after the states turned in their certified votes.  Republican Senators in Trump-heavy states, that are up for re-election in '22, are speaking out, this week, against Cruz's efforts.  We've seen Trumpkin Senators say that this amounts to overturning the will of the states, and that they won't support it.

Those things alone show this for what it is - a bunch of grandstanding.  

Yes, it is fucking stupid, and it is playing with fire, but step back (or forward as it were) and stop looking at the forest, and instead look at the trees, or rather the details.  More importantly, look at the players and their motivations.  You think Cruz wants Trump in office for life, when it thwarts Cruz's own ambitions?  Shit, Trump overlooked Cruz multiple times for a SCOTUS seat, and that had to burn.  Cruz was never happy with a Senate seat, and if Hawley takes the public spotlight from Cruz, that's all Cruz will ever be - just another Senator (whose seat will get harder to retain over the next 1-2 elections).

[Buzzrock 14,920]

Whoever runs on the R ticket in 2024 is fucked because Trump is gonna Perot the election.

[Js1 85,320]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The Georgia Secretary of State and the top Georgia election official basically told Trump to fuck off.  And they did it publicly.  Mitch congratulated Biden (in his own way) back in December after the states turned in their certified votes.  Republican Senators in Trump-heavy states, that are up for re-election in '22, are speaking out, this week, against Cruz's efforts.  We've seen Trumpkin Senators say that this amounts to overturning the will of the states, and that they won't support it.

Those things alone show this for what it is - a bunch of grandstanding.  

Yes, it is fucking stupid, and it is playing with fire, but step back (or forward as it were) and stop looking at the forest, and instead look at the trees, or rather the details.  More importantly, look at the players and their motivations.  You think Cruz wants Trump in office for life, when it thwarts Cruz's own ambitions?  Shit, Trump overlooked Cruz multiple times for a SCOTUS seat, and that had to burn.  Cruz was never happy with a Senate seat, and if Hawley takes the public spotlight from Cruz, that's all Cruz will ever be - just another Senator (whose seat will get harder to retain over the next 1-2 elections).

Georgia SOS and governor - fuck off Trump

Arizona governor - fuck off Trump

Reagan/Bush/Bush/Trump judges - fuck off Trump

SCOTUS with 3 Trump appointees, Scalia and Thomas - fuck off Trump

Romney, Collins, Murkowski, Sasse, Lee, Shelby, Blunt, McConnell, Cotton, Graham - fuck off Trump

Paul Ryan - fuck off Trump

Liz Cheney - fuck off Trump

The military - fuck off Trump

[Guest Lobo]

^
he may not have many powerful friends left in the party, but he has the one thing none of them have---the ability to corral the 20mm POTUS election voters that the GOP never knew about/had the ability to attract.  What he brought to the table, you don't even have to bother gerrymandering for.  You just had to make marginalized people feel politically powerful.  That's what a good gameshow host does.  

[atomheartbevo 89,659]

5 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Whoever runs on the R ticket in 2024 is fucked because Trump is gonna Perot the election.

Grift Attraction Theory* at work.

*I don't quite know how to define it yet, but it revolves around Trump, rallies, and souvenirs.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

45 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Cruz is 100% worried about 2024. 

Apparently he's not well-liked among his colleagues and hasn't been for some time, so there's that, too.

Hawley isn't as desperate, for the reasons you outlined, but he's wanted to be President since high school age (news interview from way back with people who attended school/worked with him) so he's not unlike Cruz with respect to ambition, but also as you said, has more elements that will appeal to voters that don't dig around beyond shallow political superlatives.

Also, @Lobo is spot on with respect to Cruz actually not using the data the way Trump did. Trump had the mob man's perspective and for all his faults, Cruz didn't go there either because he didn't realize what he had or just wouldn't cross that line. Trump has zero problems violating anything: laws, women, diapers.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Mrs Whiggins
text

[SydneyCarton 48,090]

3 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Apparently he's not well-liked among his colleagues and hasn't been for some time, so there's that, too.

Hawley isn't as desperate, for the reasons you outlined, but he's wanted to be President since high school age (news interview from way back with people who attended school/worked with him) so he's not unlike Cruz with respect to ambition, but also as you said, has more elements that will appeal to voters that don't dig around beyond shallow political superlatives.

Also, @Lobo is spot on with respect to Cruz actually not using the data the way Trump did. Trump had the mob man's perspective and for all his faults, Cruz didn't go there either because he didn't realize what he had or just wouldn't cross that line. Trump has zero problems violating anything: laws, women, diapers.

And now, neither does Cruz.

[Buzzrock 14,920]

Georgia SOS and governor - fuck off Trump
Arizona governor - fuck off Trump
Reagan/Bush/Bush/Trump judges - fuck off Trump
SCOTUS with 3 Trump appointees, Scalia and Thomas - fuck off Trump
Romney, Collins, Murkowski, Sasse, Lee, Shelby, Blunt, McConnell, Cotton, Graham - fuck off Trump
Paul Ryan - fuck off Trump
Liz Cheney - fuck off Trump
The military - fuck off Trump

You forgot the Trump AG

[Willfully Horn 8,014]

2 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

 

A staffer said that Trump said “Just let me have this fight.” It’s just about ego. He knows he can’t win. But he’s not going away either.

 

His wants are more important than the peaceful transfer standard?

To bootlickers.

[Buzzrock 14,920]

The bootlickers don’t care about his wants, they’re just too chickenshit to risk pissing off any of his voters.

[Pato del Muerto 52,492]

42 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The Georgia Secretary of State and the top Georgia election official basically told Trump to fuck off.  And they did it publicly.  Mitch congratulated Biden (in his own way) back in December after the states turned in their certified votes.  Republican Senators in Trump-heavy states, that are up for re-election in '22, are speaking out, this week, against Cruz's efforts.  We've seen Trumpkin Senators say that this amounts to overturning the will of the states, and that they won't support it.

Those things alone show this for what it is - a bunch of grandstanding.  

Yes, it is fucking stupid, and it is playing with fire, but step back (or forward as it were) and stop looking at the forest, and instead look at the trees, or rather the details.  More importantly, look at the players and their motivations.  You think Cruz wants Trump in office for life, when it thwarts Cruz's own ambitions?  Shit, Trump overlooked Cruz multiple times for a SCOTUS seat, and that had to burn.  Cruz was never happy with a Senate seat, and if Hawley takes the public spotlight from Cruz, that's all Cruz will ever be - just another Senator (whose seat will get harder to retain over the next 1-2 elections).

 

3 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

The bootlickers don’t care about his wants, they’re just too chickenshit to risk pissing off any of his voters.

My hope, and I think this has so far been a theme to their plotting, is that the Republicans want to do enough to satiate the huge chunk of idiots that follow Trump without actually overturning the valid results. 
they are treating this like any political issue, having discussions on which reps and senators are safe and which need cover, how many can go in one direction for that cover without jeopardizing their seat, etc. it’s a game to get right up to the edge without going over. “We tried our best, we did all we could.  Please keep voting for us.”

dangerous, dangerous game, and the stakes are the surviva of our country. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

26 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

 

My hope, and I think this has so far been a theme to their plotting, is that the Republicans want to do enough to satiate the huge chunk of idiots that follow Trump without actually overturning the valid results. 
they are treating this like any political issue, having discussions on which reps and senators are safe and which need cover, how many can go in one direction for that cover without jeopardizing their seat, etc. it’s a game to get right up to the edge without going over. “We tried our best, we did all we could.  Please keep voting for us.”

dangerous, dangerous game, and the stakes are the survival of our country. 

Not a game to Putin.

And there are some in that group that don't see it that way either. Trump is not the only malignant narcissist in that group I'd wager, just the most outspoken craven one. Plenty of Palpatines in addition to Trump that are sitting back and watching and waiting to see how it shakes out. Doesn't mean they're foreign assets, but at this point, who knows? Sedition is sedition. It's not a game.

[LonghornSean 3,994]

 

[Eskimohorn 5,635]

Derp- Eskimo beat me to it

The irony of a signer of the Declaration of Independence and VP to a drafter of our Constitution decided that politicians choose the electorate. Whoops.

[Ted Lange 16,085]

Trump isn’t gonna be the Perot in 24, it’ll be an actual Republican who runs as an Independent after Trump waltzes to another GOP nomination.  Only way that doesn’t happen is if Trump is dead or in jail (maybe).

[Beau Vine 54,219]

 

[Eskimohorn 5,635]

[lemonlime 5,503]

2 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

Trump isn’t gonna be the Perot in 24, it’ll be an actual Republican who runs as an Independent after Trump waltzes to another GOP nomination.  Only way that doesn’t happen is if Trump is dead or in jail (maybe).

If trump is dead or in jail, Don, Jr. or Ivanka will run.  And Donny Two Scoops will have been a martyr in which they drone on about how mistreated he was leading to his death or imprisonment, incessantly.  

[956 Worldwide 34,710]

18 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Not a game to Putin.

And there are some in that group that don't see it that way either. Trump is not the only malignant narcissist in that group I'd wager, just the most outspoken craven one. Plenty of Palpatines in addition to Trump that are sitting back and watching and waiting to see how it shakes out. Doesn't mean they're foreign assets, but at this point, who knows? Sedition is sedition. It's not a game.

I am getting more and more pessimistic. I think it’s clear that whatever he believed after Election Day, Trump has walked too far out on this ledge.  I really expect we are going to have two people claiming to be POTUS on January 20 and a not-insignificant subset of legislators lining up behind Trump.  I don’t think it’s only grift at this point.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,451]

5 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I am getting more and more pessimistic. I think it’s clear that whatever he believed after Election Day, Trump has walked too far out on this ledge.  I really expect we are going to have two people claiming to be POTUS on January 20 and a not-insignificant subset of legislators lining up behind Trump.  I don’t think it’s only grift at this point.

I’m beginning to agree