Electric Cars

[gsoda3 3245]

24 minutes ago, tokamak said:

True but supposedly Toyota has pretty much perfected the hybrid drivetrain because the Prius has been around so long. CR says hybrids in general (not specifically Toyotas or Camrys) are the most reliable, I think.

we have several friends/family who have toyota/lexus hybrids and love em.  for me though the two most appealing factors which drove us to a tesla were 1.) savings on electric charging vs gas fillups and 2.) me not having to perform normal maintenance.  we also like to drive our cars into the ground so the battery issue is me whistling past the graveyard.  

 

my sister in law has an ioniq 5.  we were considering it until she got one and complained about how many little things were causing her grief (from having trouble repairing her matte chipped paint to odd electronic issues in her dashboard) but things seem to have gotten better the past year or so.  i actually tried to buy the f150 lightning but never got delivery and by that time just said forget it and we bought a model 3 instead.  it's our little car for when we don't have to take all the kids somewhere.  love it.

[Dahobbs 17522]

5 hours ago, tokamak said:

Thread bump.

We may be in the market for a new car soon. I'd really like to go electric if possible. My personal reasons go something like this 1) carbon footprint, 2) potentially less maintenance due to fewer moving parts, and 3) being a little fun to drive with instant torque. This would be purely a commuter car - 50 miles a day and charged every night at home. We have a gas SUV that will be our road trip vehicle for the foreseeable future. Fears about range and charging speed aren't a big deal to me.

Not interested in Tesla at this time. Hyundai Ioniq 6 is what I've had my eye on the most but I haven't done a ton of research on what's out there. F-150 Lightning and Mustang Mach E both have their appeal for different reasons.

My big hang up is long-term reliability. When I buy a car, I want to drive it until the wheels fall off. A vehicle should last me at least 150k miles. The upside is that concerns about EV resale value don't bother me much. On the other hand, other than Tesla these are all brand new models (or brand new manufacturers like Polestar, etc) packed with brand new technology and that makes me very wary. From what little reading I've done, seems like concerns about the battery pack lifetime are overblown, but it's all the other electronics that worry me. I'd love to hear some thoughts from EV drivers, or others who have looked into it. Should I just buy a hybrid Camry and forget it?

I love my model 3. But you're right to be somewhat concerned by the first generation EVs from a lot of these manufacturers. There will be teething issues. But in general I'd say, apart from Tesla, Hyundai/Kia/Genesis and Ford have the most mature platforms. I would have included GM in that list, but they really fucked up their battery supply. I think EVs are great. I think they are superior to drive. But I also think you should drive a bunch of them because it will feel different. 

[royiv 9247]

8 hours ago, tokamak said:

Not interested in Tesla at this time. 

 

7 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

we bought a model 3 instead.  it's our little car for when we don't have to take all the kids somewhere.  love it.

 

3 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I love my model 3.

Read between the lines, gentlemen.

[Dahobbs 17522]

46 minutes ago, royiv said:

 

 

Read between the lines, gentlemen.

He asked for experiences from EV drivers. I spent one line telling him mine and then discussed other manufacturers. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10227]

9 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

you'll have double the worries then (ICE and electric motor)

Actually not the case, hybrids are significantly more reliable.

Quote

As important as potential repair costs might be in vehicle choice, more important is avoiding the need for a repair — and that’s where hybrids show an edge. Hybrids rated as significantly more reliable overall than all other vehicle types (gasoline-only, PHEVs and full electrics) in Consumer Reports’ latest Annual Auto Reliability Survey. On average, hybrids had 26% fewer problems on average than gas-only vehicles. Meanwhile, EVs had 79% more problems than gas-only vehicles, and PHEVs trailed all with 146% more problems. In fairness, EVs and PHEVs are relative newcomers compared with hybrid cars that have been on sale in the U.S. for about a quarter century.

 

[royiv 9247]

14 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

He asked for experiences from EV drivers. I spent one line telling him mine and then discussed other manufacturers. 

Cool, but a lot of folks aren’t buying Tesla at this point no matter how much you like the one you own. It seemed like he was pretty clear Tesla wasn’t an option for him.

[elfenix 34223]

24 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Actually not the case, hybrids are significantly more reliable.

 

PHEVs having 146% more problems than average while non-plugin hybrids have 26% fewer makes no damn sense. 

 

Edited August 29 by elfenix

[tokamak 6391]

45 minutes ago, royiv said:

Cool, but a lot of folks aren’t buying Tesla at this point no matter how much you like the one you own. It seemed like he was pretty clear Tesla wasn’t an option for him.

It’s unfortunate because Tesla has the most mature product on the market by a mile and ultimately that’s what my concern boils down to. But I personally am not interested at this time.

Like someone said, my impression is that Ford and Hyundai/Kia are next farthest along. The F-150 Lightning subreddit is full of people bitching about quality issues, though. Hyundai owners seem a little happier but I think they might still be in the honeymoon phase.

If I were looking to lease a vehicle for 3 years and then swap it out for something new, it’s a different story entirely. That’s not how I like to use my vehicles though. I’m afraid I’m in the market about 5 years too early. 

[texastough 1129]

Right now have a Volvo hybrid demo. You can choose between all gas, all electric, or hybrid. In all electric mode you can only go about 35 miles. But you can plug it into a normal electrical outlet. So if you just drive around town you never have to buy gas. But for a road trip or if you want to go somewhere fast you have gas. Feels like the best of both worlds, we are fans.

Would never consider a tesla

[gsoda3 3245]

21 minutes ago, texastough said:

Right now have a Volvo hybrid demo. You can choose between all gas, all electric, or hybrid. In all electric mode you can only go about 35 miles. But you can plug it into a normal electrical outlet. So if you just drive around town you never have to buy gas. But for a road trip or if you want to go somewhere fast you have gas. Feels like the best of both worlds, we are fans.

Would never consider a tesla

how long do you have to keep it plugged in to fully charge 35 miles?

[texastough 1129]

If you use a 220 outlet they said like 5 hours, with 110 more like 10 hours. So easily doable overnight. But it also recharges some while driving -- braking, coasting etc. In the past few days driving it we have not come close to running the battery dead -- and if you ever did that the car switches to gas automatically. Car says we are averaging 148 mpg

[partytimesausage 27]

I have shifted to Evs and prob wont go back to ice so super bias to ev opinion coming.   my random thoughts

House has a tesla and a chevy bolt.  The little bolt is pretty fucking heroic for what it is.  amazing commuter vehicle.  super cheap.  bought it on a whim bc my wife started stealing the tesla.  Both have been super reliable.  I will flip the bolt back into a tesla once teslas can be used as a home backup (only cybertrucks right now).  the Tesla just hit about 30k miles and needed its first service item.  The car ran out of windshield washer fluid.  3 bucks in maintenance over 30k miles so fucking cool.  Its still on its original tires.  If you launch the car off every stop light then you will burn through tires bc of the torque so just depends how you drive. 

The violent speed of evs make them just a blast to drive.  even the fucking little bolt is peppy as hell.

also, non ev drivers either dont want to or cant understand the how amazingly convenient having a "gas pump" in your garage is.  you wake up everyday with a full tank so range is never an issue. 

Roadtrips:  Tesla network is so easy.  Easy to take the car around the state or whatever. 

negatives:  range is way overstated if you are talking highway speeds.  around town the stated ranges are fairly accurate.  ev world needs a better system to somehow illustrate this.  Charging outside the tesla network is stupid.  I dont get why its so difficult. 

 

summary:  your next car should be an ev if your daily drive is less then the range of the car and you can charge at home.  If you have to charge everyday in the wild, evs are not for you and the gas savings is actually negligible.  Charge rates are inflated at superchargers. 

 

 

[Dahobbs 17522]

12 hours ago, royiv said:

Cool, but a lot of folks aren’t buying Tesla at this point no matter how much you like the one you own. It seemed like he was pretty clear Tesla wasn’t an option for him.

My dude, I wasn't advocating buying one. He asked for EV owner's perspectives. I'm obviously limited in my experience to the vehicle I actually fucking own. Mine is with a Tesla. So I answered his question and then gave some advice on manufacturers he would consider.  Go fuck yourself. 

[royiv 9247]

12 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

My dude, I wasn't advocating buying one. He asked for EV owner's perspectives. I'm obviously limited in my experience to the vehicle I actually fucking own. Mine is with a Tesla. So I answered his question and then gave some advice on manufacturers he would consider.  Go fuck yourself. 

Triggered.

[Dahobbs 17522]

2 minutes ago, royiv said:

Triggered.

Stop being an asshole. I get you hate Tesla. I likely wouldn't buy one myself at this point. Either contribute to the thread or fuck off. 

[royiv 9247]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

Stop being an asshole. I get you hate Tesla. I likely wouldn't buy one myself at this point. Either contribute to the thread or fuck off. 

Salty.

[Dahobbs 17522]

13 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Actually not the case, hybrids are significantly more reliable.

 

The problem with taking top line numbers from those reliability surveys is that they include minor complaints like button placement and panel alignment with more serious issues like engine or transmission failure. In general, for EVs (and newer cars generally), the reliability issues stem from the convenience technology and potentially build quality, but not issues that prevent the operation of the vehicle. 

12 hours ago, tokamak said:

It’s unfortunate because Tesla has the most mature product on the market by a mile and ultimately that’s what my concern boils down to. But I personally am not interested at this time.

Like someone said, my impression is that Ford and Hyundai/Kia are next farthest along. The F-150 Lightning subreddit is full of people bitching about quality issues, though. Hyundai owners seem a little happier but I think they might still be in the honeymoon phase.

If I were looking to lease a vehicle for 3 years and then swap it out for something new, it’s a different story entirely. That’s not how I like to use my vehicles though. I’m afraid I’m in the market about 5 years too early. 

You may also look at Audi. They've been refining their EVs for quite a bit now. Limited options and expensive, but good vehicles. I would also say that looking at online forums for any vehicle generally results in high levels of complaints because those are the people that post. Getting access to Tesla's supercharger network is a pretty big deal, and both Ford and Kia have that now, so it should alleviate some of the issues stemming from the reliability of other charging companies like Electrify America (though apparently these are improving as well). 

11 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

how long do you have to keep it plugged in to fully charge 35 miles?

My Pacifica PHEV fully charges overnight on standard 120 outlet. I'd say 90-95% of my wife's in town driving with it is electric only. It's only when multiple longer commutes on the same day or on road trips that it starts using gas. We've been really happy with it in general, though I do feel it is inferior to true EVs in a number of ways (e.g., no one peddle driving, still need for engine maintenance and oil changes, etc.) 

1 hour ago, partytimesausage said:

I have shifted to Evs and prob wont go back to ice so super bias to ev opinion coming.   my random thoughts

House has a tesla and a chevy bolt.  The little bolt is pretty fucking heroic for what it is.  amazing commuter vehicle.  super cheap.  bought it on a whim bc my wife started stealing the tesla.  Both have been super reliable.  I will flip the bolt back into a tesla once teslas can be used as a home backup (only cybertrucks right now).  the Tesla just hit about 30k miles and needed its first service item.  The car ran out of windshield washer fluid.  3 bucks in maintenance over 30k miles so fucking cool.  Its still on its original tires.  If you launch the car off every stop light then you will burn through tires bc of the torque so just depends how you drive. 

The violent speed of evs make them just a blast to drive.  even the fucking little bolt is peppy as hell.

also, non ev drivers either dont want to or cant understand the how amazingly convenient having a "gas pump" in your garage is.  you wake up everyday with a full tank so range is never an issue. 

Roadtrips:  Tesla network is so easy.  Easy to take the car around the state or whatever. 

negatives:  range is way overstated if you are talking highway speeds.  around town the stated ranges are fairly accurate.  ev world needs a better system to somehow illustrate this.  Charging outside the tesla network is stupid.  I dont get why its so difficult. 

 

summary:  your next car should be an ev if your daily drive is less then the range of the car and you can charge at home.  If you have to charge everyday in the wild, evs are not for you and the gas savings is actually negligible.  Charge rates are inflated at superchargers. 

I agree with all. I'll just note that there are very few use cases where one would have to charge at a pay fast charger everyday with any modern EV. That's a lot of daily driving if your vehicle has 200+ miles of range.  

[partytimesausage 27]

9 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I agree with all. I'll just note that there are very few use cases where one would have to charge at a pay fast charger everyday with any modern EV. That's a lot of daily driving if your vehicle has 200+ miles of range.  

Mainly meant if you are unable to charge at home (apartment life, etc):  It would suck ass to have to charge and wait every damn time you needed to fuel up.

[Dahobbs 17522]

16 minutes ago, partytimesausage said:

Mainly meant if you are unable to charge at home (apartment life, etc):  It would suck ass to have to charge and wait every damn time you needed to fuel up.

Yup. Not good for apartment dwellers yet (unless the apartment has charging spots). 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10227]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

The problem with taking top line numbers from those reliability surveys is that they include minor complaints like button placement and panel alignment with more serious issues like engine or transmission failure. In general, for EVs (and newer cars generally), the reliability issues stem from the convenience technology and potentially build quality, but not issues that prevent the operation of the vehicle. 

Consumer Reports reliability score is a weighted score based on the type of issues, ie. engine issue weighted much higher than in car electronics feature

[Shoxthemonkey 1977]

Do any of you regularly use your EV on gravel or country roads. I'm thinking about upgrading my wife's ride to an EV but we have 3 miles each way to town on gravel. Depending upon the recency of the graderman, the road can be rough. I'm worried about vibrations shortening circuitboard and battery life. I am considering the Lightning because of it's ruggedness but she really doesn't need the extra size complicating her life. Thoughts?

ETA, My daughter has a Mach-E GT and my brother has an Ionic 5. I have driven both and am sold on the EV overall. Durability is the issue.

Edited August 29 by Shoxthemonkey

[Dahobbs 17522]

2 hours ago, Shoxthemonkey said:

Do any of you regularly use your EV on gravel or country roads. I'm thinking about upgrading my wife's ride to an EV but we have 3 miles each way to town on gravel. Depending upon the recency of the graderman, the road can be rough. I'm worried about vibrations shortening circuitboard and battery life. I am considering the Lightning because of it's ruggedness but she really doesn't need the extra size complicating her life. Thoughts?

ETA, My daughter has a Mach-E GT and my brother has an Ionic 5. I have driven both and am sold on the EV overall. Durability is the issue.

Driven mine plenty down a gravel/rock road in Junction for family retreats. But that is yearly, not daily. That said, I drive in Houston's road filled potholes every day without any issue so far. 

[troph 24781]

On 8/29/2024 at 10:49 AM, partytimesausage said:

Mainly meant if you are unable to charge at home (apartment life, etc):  It would suck ass to have to charge and wait every damn time you needed to fuel up.

we spent a month in Colorado this summer without a 240v home charger. as a commuter car - we commuted 17 miles each way most days while up there - even a 120v plug in over night was enough so that we only had to visit the supercharger 2-3 times in a whole month (which was conveniently on our way to or from our daily destination).  EVs are remarkably easy to incorporate into your daily life.

lack of maintenance, longevity of your brakes, no oil changes, no gas station stops, truthfully, I see no reason to have an ICE car now that all auto makers have EV options.  within a few more years we will have reliability data on every auto maker and so EVs will be ubiquitous in terms of choice.

[52-80 19147]

On 8/29/2024 at 4:55 AM, tokamak said:

It’s unfortunate because Tesla has the most mature product on the market by a mile and ultimately that’s what my concern boils down to. But I personally am not interested at this time.

Like someone said, my impression is that Ford and Hyundai/Kia are next farthest along.

That seems correct. I know people with Ford E and Volvo/Polestar and Hyundai/Kia products.  They're good but they all have software and user-experience niggles here and there.  Due to their lack of qualification for the EV credit, they just dont seem a very good deal, especially if you only need a putt-around car.

So if you dont want a new T***(pretty screaming deal), just get something used like a eGolf or something and drive it into the ground. You still get that silent zippiness.

Or if you dont mind the spend, fuck it and go Taycan.  If you want a new normal car, Hyundai has the longest warranty out of that peer group?

[52-80 19147]

On 8/29/2024 at 9:32 PM, Shoxthemonkey said:

Do any of you regularly use your EV on gravel or country roads. I'm thinking about upgrading my wife's ride to an EV but we have 3 miles each way to town on gravel. Depending upon the recency of the graderman, the road can be rough. I'm worried about vibrations shortening circuitboard and battery life.

It's all solid-state electronics and automotive-graded stuff.  Consider normal cars have lots of circuitry and computers, too.  I wouldnt be concern about vibration-induced wear. 

[Parliament 14239]

Rode in some kinda VW ‘lectric suv last week.  Smooth and quiet.  I 100% understand the appeal.

[tokamak 6391]

20 hours ago, troph said:

we spent a month in Colorado this summer without a 240v home charger. as a commuter car - we commuted 17 miles each way most days while up there - even a 120v plug in over night was enough so that we only had to visit the supercharger 2-3 times in a whole month (which was conveniently on our way to or from our daily destination).  EVs are remarkably easy to incorporate into your daily life.

lack of maintenance, longevity of your brakes, no oil changes, no gas station stops, truthfully, I see no reason to have an ICE car now that all auto makers have EV options.  within a few more years we will have reliability data on every auto maker and so EVs will be ubiquitous in terms of choice.

I would add the caveat of if you can charge at home. It’s a much bigger deal for someone that can’t. For me, this is a big reason to be considering electric though. I can charge at home every night and I just need a commuter vehicle, so I’m like the poster boy for an EV customer right now. 

I actually had a Lyft ride in a Chevy Bolt the other day. Seemed like a nice little ride. Of course Chevy stopped making them. 

[troph 24781]

1 minute ago, tokamak said:

I would add the caveat of if you can charge at home. It’s a much bigger deal for someone that can’t. For me, this is a big reason to be considering electric though. I can charge at home every night and I just need a commuter vehicle, so I’m like the poster boy for an EV customer right now. 

I actually had a Lyft ride in a Chevy Bolt the other day. Seemed like a nice little ride. Of course Chevy stopped making them. 

Apartments and condos are certainly a concern. Yes.

[Dahobbs 17522]

Update to the Ioniq 5:

Hyundai updates Ioniq 5 with bigger battery, Tesla-style port:

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/09/hyundai-ioniq-5s-will-be-made-in-usa-with-native-tesla-style-ports/

Quote

 

The Hyundai Ioniq 5 is one of our favorite electric vehicles. It offers excellent efficiency and really rapid charging, all wrapped up in a shape that exudes late-'80s hatchback vibes. Today, Hyundai revealed details about the Ioniq 5's update for model year 2025 (MY25), and it's noteworthy for a number of reasons.

For starters, when MY25 Ioniq 5s start appearing on dealer lots in Q4, they'll arrive with J3400 ports concealed underneath their charger port flaps. Once known as the North American Charging Standard (NACS), this is the Tesla-style charger plug, which means MY25 Ioniq 5s should be able to fast charge at more than 17,000 Tesla Superchargers throughout the US and Canada.

The flip side is that a MY25 Ioniq 5 will require an adapter if the driver wants to charge it with a CCS1 charger, although Hyundai will include that dongle with a new car. The automaker says that as it refreshes other EVs in Q4, they will also only come with J3400 ports. For existing Hyundai EVs with CCS1 ports, J3400 adapters are supposed to be available in Q1 2025.

Another benefit of starting production at Hyundai's new plant in Georgia is that US-made Ioniq 5s will be eligible for some of the IRS clean vehicle tax credit. This is now linked to domestic battery content, and Hyundai says that, initially, it expects US-made Ioniq 5s (and other EVs from the Georgia factory) to be eligible for at least $3,750. (Leased Ioniq 5s qualify for the full $7,500 tax credit.)

A bigger battery

The Ioniq 5 is also getting a battery capacity bump for MY25. The standard-range Ioniq 5 increases from 58 kWh to 63 kWh, boosting the range by 20 miles (32 km) to 240 miles (385 km). The long-range models see capacity grow from 77.4 kWh to 84 kWh—this adds seven miles to the range of the longest-range Ioniq 5, which will be able to travel 310 miles (489 km) on a single charge.

Not all of the longer-range Ioniq 5s can go that far; as EV aficionados know, fitting bigger wheels to one does deleterious things to its range.

That definitely applies to a new addition to the Ioniq 5 lineup, a lifted black-bumper-clad off-road-capable variant called the XRT. The XRT combines an all-wheel-drive powertrain with new 18-inch wheels and all-terrain tires, new suspension tuning, including a 0.9-inch (23 mm) lift, and a whole lot of black trim.

All the other Ioniq 5s (barring the bonkers Ioniq 5 N) get some interior and exterior tweaks for MY25, including new front and rear bumpers, a new rear spoiler, a redesigned center console and new climate control panel, wireless Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, and some new safety-focused driver assists.

Pricing for the refreshed Ioniq 5 range should be available closer to the cars' arrival at dealerships.

 

 

[Bevo&Pevo 5120]

I'm curious about battery replacement.  So how long does a battery truly last?  What is the real cost? 3k 5k or...?  Internet stories are all over the place, so what does the real world say? 

[Dahobbs 17522]

7 hours ago, Bevo&Pevo said:

I'm curious about battery replacement.  So how long does a battery truly last?  What is the real cost? 3k 5k or...?  Internet stories are all over the place, so what does the real world say? 

On a modern vehicle with a proper battery management system, the batteries should last beyond the life of the car. For instance, some extremely high mileage Teslas have had the batteries repurposed for home energy storage. But because EVs haven't been around that long, there isn't any real hard historical data to go off on.  There will be teething issues with some batteries that will require some of them be replaced, e.g., the manufacturing failures associated with some LG battery packs (e.g., earlier Chevy Bolts). Like with the LG issue, any such failures should be 100% covered by the manufacturer. Outside of those issues, warranties on batteries are generally 8 years or longer. Should one need to be replaced outside of warranty, the cost is going to be highly variable depending upon the manufacturer. I would assume in the 7-15k range as you have to think of it as like having to replace an engine and/or transmission. 

The vast majority of battery failures at this point were either (1) manufacturing defects like with the Bolt above or (2) from vehicles that don't have actively managed battery temperature like the older Leafs. 

Big picture, I don't think it is worth worrying about any more than you would worry what it would cost to completely replace the engine and transmission in a ICE vehicle.

[52-80 19147]

10 hours ago, Bevo&Pevo said:

I'm curious about battery replacement.  So how long does a battery truly last?  What is the real cost? 3k 5k or...?  Internet stories are all over the place, so what does the real world say? 

Hyundai has a 10yr/100k mi battery warranty to maintain 70% of original capacity

Tesla has 8yr/100-120-150k mi battery warranty to maintain 70% of original capacity

Current price for a pack is around $10k.  It's expected to continue falling given decreasing battery cost, and more EVs on the road contributing to supply of re-manufactured packs.  Working used packs probably fetch around $5k for people repurposing them as home storage.

 

[troph 24781]

On 9/3/2024 at 9:59 PM, Bevo&Pevo said:

I'm curious about battery replacement.  So how long does a battery truly last?  What is the real cost? 3k 5k or...?  Internet stories are all over the place, so what does the real world say? 

I'm driving an 8 year old Tesla X, we've had only minor battery degradation. the only issue we have is back then (2016) a 220 mile range was bad ass, well that's not so great anymore. but we have free supercharging so that's awesome. I'd say our battery decline is less than 10%.

[Bevo&Pevo 5120]

On 9/4/2024 at 5:51 AM, Dahobbs said:

On a modern vehicle with a proper battery management system, the batteries should last beyond the life of the car. For instance, some extremely high mileage Teslas have had the batteries repurposed for home energy storage. But because EVs haven't been around that long, there isn't any real hard historical data to go off on.  There will be teething issues with some batteries that will require some of them be replaced, e.g., the manufacturing failures associated with some LG battery packs (e.g., earlier Chevy Bolts). Like with the LG issue, any such failures should be 100% covered by the manufacturer. Outside of those issues, warranties on batteries are generally 8 years or longer. Should one need to be replaced outside of warranty, the cost is going to be highly variable depending upon the manufacturer. I would assume in the 7-15k range as you have to think of it as like having to replace an engine and/or transmission. 

The vast majority of battery failures at this point were either (1) manufacturing defects like with the Bolt above or (2) from vehicles that don't have actively managed battery temperature like the older Leafs. 

Big picture, I don't think it is worth worrying about any more than you would worry what it would cost to completely replace the engine and transmission in a ICE vehicle.

 

On 9/4/2024 at 8:10 AM, 52-80 said:

Hyundai has a 10yr/100k mi battery warranty to maintain 70% of original capacity

Tesla has 8yr/100-120-150k mi battery warranty to maintain 70% of original capacity

Current price for a pack is around $10k.  It's expected to continue falling given decreasing battery cost, and more EVs on the road contributing to supply of re-manufactured packs.  Working used packs probably fetch around $5k for people repurposing them as home storage.

 

 

16 hours ago, troph said:

I'm driving an 8 year old Tesla X, we've had only minor battery degradation. the only issue we have is back then (2016) a 220 mile range was bad ass, well that's not so great anymore. but we have free supercharging so that's awesome. I'd say our battery decline is less than 10%.

Well, that ought to clear that up.  I was under the impression that a battery didn't have a long service life, and they were a significant cost to replace.  I figured EV drivers just traded 'em off when the battery was about to give up the ghost.  Now, I know.  

[gsoda3 3245]

16 hours ago, troph said:

I'm driving an 8 year old Tesla X, we've had only minor battery degradation. the only issue we have is back then (2016) a 220 mile range was bad ass, well that's not so great anymore. but we have free supercharging so that's awesome. I'd say our battery decline is less than 10%.

How often do you supercharge? That degrades the battery faster than normal charging.

[Dahobbs 17522]

9 minutes ago, Bevo&Pevo said:

 

 

Well, that ought to clear that up.  I was under the impression that a battery didn't have a long service life, and they were a significant cost to replace.  I figured EV drivers just traded 'em off when the battery was about to give up the ghost.  Now, I know.  

Yeah, that is either FUD from anti EV sources or references issues with the Leaf when it did not have active thermal management of the battery (which was really fucking stupid). 

[elfenix 34223]

On 9/3/2024 at 1:46 PM, Dahobbs said:

Update to the Ioniq 5:

Hyundai updates Ioniq 5 with bigger battery, Tesla-style port:

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/09/hyundai-ioniq-5s-will-be-made-in-usa-with-native-tesla-style-ports/

 

I wonder how much EV sales momentum slowing (sales are still growing unlike full size trucks) is due to everyone announcing that next year's model will have a NAICS port? Anyone paying attention was going to wait.

[Armybrat 40822]

Saw one of these Karma Sedans yesterday in Cedar Park. Pretty slick styling. 
Never heard of the brand before.

 

[troph 24781]

1 hour ago, gsoda3 said:

How often do you supercharge? That degrades the battery faster than normal charging.

4-5 trips a year, maybe 6-7. most common trip is Austin to Rockport. We've driven to Colorado and back the last two years. otherwise charge at home.

[gsoda3 3245]

11 minutes ago, troph said:

4-5 trips a year, maybe 6-7. most common trip is Austin to Rockport. We've driven to Colorado and back the last two years. otherwise charge at home.

Oh yeah that's not gonna do any harm.  

[Slacks 6819]

My BIL has a VW Atlas. He told me his 'fuel' bill was $400 last year. That got my attention.

[Dahobbs 17522]

3 hours ago, Slacks said:

My BIL has a VW Atlas. He told me his 'fuel' bill was $400 last year. That got my attention.

Do you mean $4,000?  400 would be like driving under 4,000 miles in a year for a vehicle with 25-30 mpg.  

[choripan 790]

We had a Chevy Volt (Gen 2) hybrid as a company car when my wife worked at GM 7-8 years ago. Loved that we could tool around town and not buy gas for weeks at a time, and the car itself was nice, too. but when we had a road trip we didn't have to mess with chargers. Was bummed when we had to give it back (they make you swap every six months).

Based on that experience, when it was time to replace our Jeep last year, we got the PHEV. Same deal, we buy gas about once a month and it charges fully in our garage overnight at 110v.

We would have considered Tesla a few (4-5?) years ago -- my MIL loves her early-run Model 3 -- but now, and especially now-now after the last few months, we're like the folks mentioned above who won't consider Tesla under any circumstances. Hell, I don't know that we'll go full EV when we replace our car if the industry switch to the Tesla cable means de facto having to use superchargers and put money in Musk's pockets.

[Dahobbs 17522]

2 hours ago, choripan said:

We had a Chevy Volt (Gen 2) hybrid as a company car when my wife worked at GM 7-8 years ago. Loved that we could tool around town and not buy gas for weeks at a time, and the car itself was nice, too. but when we had a road trip we didn't have to mess with chargers. Was bummed when we had to give it back (they make you swap every six months).

Based on that experience, when it was time to replace our Jeep last year, we got the PHEV. Same deal, we buy gas about once a month and it charges fully in our garage overnight at 110v.

We would have considered Tesla a few (4-5?) years ago -- my MIL loves her early-run Model 3 -- but now, and especially now-now after the last few months, we're like the folks mentioned above who won't consider Tesla under any circumstances. Hell, I don't know that we'll go full EV when we replace our car if the industry switch to the Tesla cable means de facto having to use superchargers and put money in Musk's pockets.

It doesn't at all. The Tesla plug is now an open standard, J3400. You have the ability to use the super charger network, but it is not at all required. All networks will essentially be migrating the majority of their chargers to the new standard connection. And of course you can still get adapters for CCS (and many of the new vehicles with the Tesla style plug will come with them). 

 

Edited September 6 by Dahobbs

[choripan 790]

20 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

It doesn't at all. The Tesla plug is now an open standard, J3400. You have the ability to use the super charger network, but it is not at all required. All networks will essentially be migrating the majority of their chargers to the new standard connection. And of course you can still get adapters for CCS (and many of the new vehicles with the Tesla style plug will come with them). 

 

Good clarification for the group, as I already understood that. I'd clarify that the de facto was tied to the shittiness of non-SC charging networks. Too often they're out of service, slow, unavailable, etc. If I were to build a trip relying on charging stations, I would not depend on non-Tesla charging stations, either an individual brand or as a group. Sucks that that's where our infrastructure is now, but IIWIS

[Slacks 6819]

9 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Do you mean $4,000?  400 would be like driving under 4,000 miles in a year for a vehicle with 25-30 mpg.  

400

It's the all electric version - maybe not an atlas. my sister has the non-electric vw, so that may be my bad on naming... But anywho, he is on a lease and can recharge for free at some places in the network, so he spends almost nothing and he commutes to work daily about 35 minutes / 20 miles each way. 

It's a deal.

[Your Mom 4805]

[Dahobbs 17522]

1 hour ago, Slacks said:

400

It's the all electric version - maybe not an atlas. my sister has the non-electric vw, so that may be my bad on naming... But anywho, he is on a lease and can recharge for free at some places in the network, so he spends almost nothing and he commutes to work daily about 35 minutes / 20 miles each way. 

It's a deal.

I actually had no idea there was an EV atlas. 

[Slacks 6819]

7 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I actually had no idea there was an EV atlas. 

I guess it's not an Atlas.... ID4 or whatever.

[YChang 3443]

Any Rivian owners here... I'm thiiiiiiiiis close to pulling the trigger on one.