Electric Cars

[Dahobbs 17,420]

2 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Yeah, looking more in the $75K range vs the $100K so that knocks out the Taycan.    Is your last sentence saying you would steer away from Tesla?  Not sure I understand what you were getting at.  It seems like Tesla may have a better track record with electric cars than say Jaguar, Audi, MB so I wonder if their electrics may not be as good as a Tesla as far as build and overall technology.  Oh, and the Polestar doesn’t look great to me on the outside and I think that brand is fairly new so I would be worried about reliability.

No, I wouldn't stay away from Teslas. But some of things you've discussed will be better with more established manufacturers. Polestar is technically new, but it is a spin off of Volvo, so not much to worry about there. The Polestar 1 is a gorgeous vehicle. Unfortunately the Polestar 2 is not quite as attractive. But it is all electric and has an interior matching the very best of Volvo. It also has an amazing infotainment system (100% google, seriously, check it out).  Tesla definitely has better battery technology and efficiency than the other players at the moment. That shows up in the range of their vehicles. But things like build quality and interior quality are going to be better with the other manufacturers. If you want something more akin to the luxury you are use to with your Mercedes, the non-Teslas are worth checking out. If you want the best combination of range, power, and charging, then go with a Tesla. 

 

 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6,531]

37 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No, I wouldn't stay away from Teslas. But some of things you've discussed will be better with more established manufacturers. Polestar is technically new, but it is a spin off of Volvo, so not much to worry about there. The Polestar 1 is a gorgeous vehicle. Unfortunately the Polestar 2 is not quite as attractive. But it is all electric and has an interior matching the very best of Volvo. It also has an amazing infotainment system (100% google, seriously, check it out).  Tesla definitely has better battery technology and efficiency than the other players at the moment. That shows up in the range of their vehicles. But things like build quality and interior quality are going to be better with the other manufacturers. If you want something more akin to the luxury you are use to with your Mercedes, the non-Teslas are worth checking out. If you want the best combination of range, power, and charging, then go with a Tesla. 

 

 

About to test drive a Jaguar I pace as I type this.  Seems nicer inside but not night and day nicer.  Actually the Tesla seat is more comfortable. 

[troph 24,548]

for the S its a procedure to warm up the battery to temp for maximum current discharge, and also change suspention squat for better weight distribution at launch

I give up. You win.

[troph 24,548]

i'm amazed at your usage of both "brake" and "breaks" in this post.

Still drinking coffee when I wrote that.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6,531]

I thought the Tesla S drove much better than the Jaguar I Pace.  One interesting thing about the Jaguar is you can put the regenerative breaks on high or low.  On high it was like driving a Tesla but not as smooth.  On low it was like driving a regular car in that you use both pedals.  Does Tesla have this option?  I didn’t try it when I test drove the Tesla.  The interior was definitely more like a “traditional” luxury car with all the buttons and gadgets but I swear the trunk space was smaller in the Jag than the Tesla.  Don’t think I could fit two sets of golf clubs in the Jag but could in the Tesla.  

[troph 24,548]

39 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

I thought the Tesla S drove much better than the Jaguar I Pace.  One interesting thing about the Jaguar is you can put the regenerative breaks on high or low.  On high it was like driving a Tesla but not as smooth.  On low it was like driving a regular car in that you use both pedals.  Does Tesla have this option?  I didn’t try it when I test drove the Tesla.  The interior was definitely more like a “traditional” luxury car with all the buttons and gadgets but I swear the trunk space was smaller in the Jag than the Tesla.  Don’t think I could fit two sets of golf clubs in the Jag but could in the Tesla.  

tesla has a standard and low.  low doesn't do a lot.  standard acts like a real brake imo.

[Dahobbs 17,420]

43 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

I thought the Tesla S drove much better than the Jaguar I Pace.  One interesting thing about the Jaguar is you can put the regenerative breaks on high or low.  On high it was like driving a Tesla but not as smooth.  On low it was like driving a regular car in that you use both pedals.  Does Tesla have this option?  I didn’t try it when I test drove the Tesla.  The interior was definitely more like a “traditional” luxury car with all the buttons and gadgets but I swear the trunk space was smaller in the Jag than the Tesla.  Don’t think I could fit two sets of golf clubs in the Jag but could in the Tesla.  

Model S has a very large trunk. Your perception is correct, as it has a full square foot more than the i-pace (with both having the seats down it is more like an addition 9 sq ft). The Model S should have an option for low regenerative braking. I know the Model 3 has it, and I'm pretty certain that same option exists with at least the newer Models S. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Dahobbs

[Beantown Express 2.0 6,531]

I am guessing even if you have the option to change the brakes on the Model S most just get used to that new way of driving anyways right?  Also, when I was at the Jag dealer and doing my test drive the sales guy was in the back seat.  He said this particular I pace is actually pre owned.  He sold it to the original owner but the guy had so many problems with it he called Jaguar USA and had them give him his money back.  The sales guy said there was nothing wrong with it really but that this guy lost his job and couldn't afford it so Jaguar was nice enough to give him his money back after 1000 miles/2 months.  Did not give me the warm fuzzy feeling about even considering the I Pace.  Last question for you Tesla folks.  I am thinking of doing the white interior as I hate the wood with the cream colored interior and the black interior is really dark.  Should I be concerned with white?  Everything says since its fake leather it cleans up even if coffee/wine are spilled on it.  Bad resale value with white interior or better?

[Dahobbs 17,420]

41 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

I am guessing even if you have the option to change the brakes on the Model S most just get used to that new way of driving anyways right?  Also, when I was at the Jag dealer and doing my test drive the sales guy was in the back seat.  He said this particular I pace is actually pre owned.  He sold it to the original owner but the guy had so many problems with it he called Jaguar USA and had them give him his money back.  The sales guy said there was nothing wrong with it really but that this guy lost his job and couldn't afford it so Jaguar was nice enough to give him his money back after 1000 miles/2 months.  Did not give me the warm fuzzy feeling about even considering the I Pace.  Last question for you Tesla folks.  I am thinking of doing the white interior as I hate the wood with the cream colored interior and the black interior is really dark.  Should I be concerned with white?  Everything says since its fake leather it cleans up even if coffee/wine are spilled on it.  Bad resale value with white interior or better?

I have the white and now 3 small children. No regrets. The white is so nice to look at and really makes the car feel bigger on the inside. I don't know the effect on resale, but I can't imagine it is bad. 

Also, yes on the braking. Anyone not using the full regenerative braking for 1-pedal driving is really missing out. You'll get use to it fast and then wonder how you could ever drive any other way. It gives you very precise control over your speed and really takes away a lot of the stress of driving. 

[troph 24,548]

Tesla has had two settings on regenerative braking since the beginning.

[TwiceHorn 31,184]

3 hours ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

I am guessing even if you have the option to change the brakes on the Model S most just get used to that new way of driving anyways right?  Also, when I was at the Jag dealer and doing my test drive the sales guy was in the back seat.  He said this particular I pace is actually pre owned.  He sold it to the original owner but the guy had so many problems with it he called Jaguar USA and had them give him his money back.  The sales guy said there was nothing wrong with it really but that this guy lost his job and couldn't afford it so Jaguar was nice enough to give him his money back after 1000 miles/2 months.  Did not give me the warm fuzzy feeling about even considering the I Pace.  Last question for you Tesla folks.  I am thinking of doing the white interior as I hate the wood with the cream colored interior and the black interior is really dark.  Should I be concerned with white?  Everything says since its fake leather it cleans up even if coffee/wine are spilled on it.  Bad resale value with white interior or better?

Not electric-specific, but you may have noticed that car interiors are becoming increasingly black.  I'd guess 75% of luxe cars are all black except upholstery (if it isn't black too). Dash, trim, even carpet.

I wasn't a huge fan of this./no racist  But my current vehicle is mostly black, brown upholstery, and I find that I quite like it.  And it isn't hot af, as I thought it would be.  Or my a/c really cools it down fast, or both.  The car itself is white, so maybe that helps.

Edited November 13, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[fattyflattie 4,636]

The only one I’ve ever liked is the S. Sharp looking car. But I’m absolutely not the target demo. But I completely understand what @Beantown Express 2.0 and @troph are spittin. 

[troph 24,548]

[mention]Beantown Express 2.0 [/mention] I have the white interior with the black trim in my X I was apprehensive at first but it’s great. I’m super weird about interiors and even balk at the tan seats black dash that seems to be common in many cars. The white on black is slick.

[HRSchenker 2,257]

Me and the Model 3 experienced our first car wreck this morning. I plowed into a car at an intersection after they ran a red light. Came out of nowhere. My damage is a torn up front bumper and a bent frunk. Their vehicle had to be towed away. I feel like things could have gone south for me very quickly had I been in a different vehicle. Luckily the car still functions so I'll be out my deductible once I find a Tesla approved body shop to repair the damage.

[52-80 19,066]

20 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

Me and the Model 3 experienced our first car wreck this morning. I plowed into a car at an intersection after they ran a red light. Came out of nowhere. My damage is a torn up front bumper and a bent frunk. Their vehicle had to be towed away. I feel like things could have gone south for me very quickly had I been in a different vehicle. Luckily the car still functions so I'll be out my deductible once I find a Tesla approved body shop to repair the damage.

Dash cam, bro?

Entertain us. 

I got in a head to head oblique collision in first month of ownership.  Cars came together at 90* downhill bend, coming from opposite directions.

Built-in dashcam proved that the other car skidded (on ice) into my lane, absolving my responsibility.  Good shit.

[troph 24,548]

I got slammed from behind by someone in my S. Teslas are easy to total. They cost a lot to repair. If you’re in Austin, Berli’s is the place to go, the only place to go. Im glad you’re ok physically.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6,531]

Welp, I hit the button and ordered the Model S.  Should be delivered by mid December.  More excited about this car than any of the cars I have purchased previously so hopefully it lives up to my high expectations.  I now find myself looking at different "accessories" to buy for the car which is something I have never done with a car before.  Also, have to get the charger installed in my garage.  Thanks to all in this thread for the advice.

[troph 24,548]

You’ll love it, congrats!

[Hornius Emeritus 12,403]

On 11/10/2020 at 11:33 PM, Irish Wrist Watch said:

Watch the movie. Did you know that, because solar and wind have downtimes (i.e., night and windless days) that the utility company has to keep a regular power generating plant running full tilt the whole time. You can't turn them off during the day. 

Ah. The baseload power fallacy. How many times will this have to be debunked?  This argument has been used for decades by renewable power opponents who don't understand how modern power grids work.  Energy producing systems today are more and more decentralized, with many energy sources and an increasing array of ways to store that power in times of surplus. As this grid decentralizes further, the need for large, centralized fossil fuel plants will continue to decrease. 

 

[Irish Wrist Watch 1,349]

A friend has a friend with a Tesla in Austin. He travels to Houston a lot.  It takes ten hours of charge at his home to get him 200m. He doesn't trust it to get him to where he needs to go in Houston on a full charge, so he stops somewhere along the way on I-10 I think, at a Tesla specific charging station. I think he said that those stations do not charge the batteries as fast as they claim. I think the guy charges it for about 20 min to get him where he needs to go, but it isn't a full charge. Because of the nature of these batteries, it takes a lot longer to charge from 50% to 100% than it does to charge from 0% to 50%. He also mentioned that as the batteries age their range on a full charge drops. The mileage figure the manufacturer gives you turns to shit when you use the A/C or (especially) the heater. This is all second hand knowledge, but I thought someone considering a purchase might want to hear it.

My buddy added that his wife is considering getting one for commuting, home to work, and he's okay with that.

[Irish Wrist Watch 1,349]

On 11/23/2020 at 12:44 PM, Hornius Emeritus said:

Ah. The baseload power fallacy. How many times will this have to be debunked?  This argument has been used for decades by renewable power opponents who don't understand how modern power grids work.  Energy producing systems today are more and more decentralized, with many energy sources and an increasing array of ways to store that power in times of surplus. As this grid decentralizes further, the need for large, centralized fossil fuel plants will continue to decrease. 

 

So you're saying that we have storage systems that allow cities to run off storage for days and even weeks in times of cloudy or bad weather? No way. Nor will we ever. Battery storage is expensive (wears out fast), requires constant maintenance, and is a dirty technology. California, say, where their advanced systems allow the funneling of energy inexpensively to wherever it is needed. No rolling blackouts there, right. They have no excess capacity to refill a battery system if they had it. They haven't built a new power plant in ages. The cities will never run off solar or wind, and at night, or when there's no wind, cities still need immense amounts of electricity for heat, cooling, etc. 

CA's pledge to go renewable could only be met by biomass, which is bullshit. By and large, it is burning trees. It smells and it pollutes the air. 4th Gen Nuclear and natural gas are the answers.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Irish Wrist Watch

[Dahobbs 17,420]

11 hours ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

A friend has a friend with a Tesla in Austin. He travels to Houston a lot.  It takes ten hours of charge at his home to get him 200m. He doesn't trust it to get him to where he needs to go in Houston on a full charge, so he stops somewhere along the way on I-10 I think, at a Tesla specific charging station. I think he said that those stations do not charge the batteries as fast as they claim. I think the guy charges it for about 20 min to get him where he needs to go, but it isn't a full charge. Because of the nature of these batteries, it takes a lot longer to charge from 50% to 100% than it does to charge from 0% to 50%. He also mentioned that as the batteries age their range on a full charge drops. The mileage figure the manufacturer gives you turns to shit when you use the A/C or (especially) the heater. This is all second hand knowledge, but I thought someone considering a purchase might want to hear it.

My buddy added that his wife is considering getting one for commuting, home to work, and he's okay with that.

Mostly right, but I get from Houston to Austin with 30% charge left if I charge to 90% before I leave. Your buddy may have a shorter range model.

AC barely affects range. The electric heater does eat battery and will easily reduce range by 30%. I run with just the seat heaters if I want to maximize range when it is cold out. The newer models are being released with a heat pump rather than relying purely on an electric heater. It greatly improved efficiency. 

Battery capacity reduces slightly over the age of the vehicle (ICE engines also lose efficiency as they age). You'll still get 80%+ of the stated range at 200,000 miles, so it really shouldn't matter to anyone. 

45 minutes ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

So you're saying that we have storage systems that allow cities to run off storage for days and even weeks in times of cloudy or bad weather? No way. Nor will we ever. Battery storage is expensive (wears out fast), requires constant maintenance, and is a dirty technology. California, say, where their advanced systems allow the funneling of energy inexpensively to wherever it is needed. No rolling blackouts there, right. They have no excess capacity to refill a battery system if they had it. They haven't built a new power plant in ages. The cities will never run off solar or wind, and at night, or when there's no wind, cities still need immense amounts of electricity for heat, cooling, etc. 

CA's pledge to go renewable could only be met by biomass, which is bullshit. By and large, it is burning trees. It smells and it pollutes the air. 4th Gen Nuclear and natural gas are the answers.

Why did you bump this thread to talk about things you have no knowledge of? He didn't say anything about an extensive storage system like that. He said our power sources are varied. You don't need a single baseload plant capable of doing everything, you just need enough overlapping power curves to make up for cyclical nature of wind and solar.  Solar energy is perfect for most places because it produces the most energy when energy when it is needed. This reduces the load on other power plants. I don't think anyone has suggested going  to 100% solar. But that doesn't mean solar energy doesn't provide a very real benefit to the grid.

Your movie was absolute trash. Stop relying on it. 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Dahobbs

[Hornius Emeritus 12,403]

23 hours ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

So you're saying that we have storage systems that allow cities to run off storage for days and even weeks in times of cloudy or bad weather?

No, and I fail to see how you could read what I wrote and come to that conclusion. 

[Irish Wrist Watch 1,349]

On 12/5/2020 at 11:10 AM, Dahobbs said:

Mostly right, but I get from Houston to Austin with 30% charge left if I charge to 90% before I leave. Your buddy may have a shorter range model.

AC barely affects range. The electric heater does eat battery and will easily reduce range by 30%. I run with just the seat heaters if I want to maximize range when it is cold out. The newer models are being released with a heat pump rather than relying purely on an electric heater. It greatly improved efficiency. 

Battery capacity reduces slightly over the age of the vehicle (ICE engines also lose efficiency as they age). You'll still get 80%+ of the stated range at 200,000 miles, so it really shouldn't matter to anyone. 

Why did you bump this thread to talk about things you have no knowledge of? He didn't say anything about an extensive storage system like that. He said our power sources are varied. You don't need a single baseload plant capable of doing everything, you just need enough overlapping power curves to make up for cyclical nature of wind and solar.  Solar energy is perfect for most places because it produces the most energy when energy when it is needed. This reduces the load on other power plants. I don't think anyone has suggested going  to 100% solar. But that doesn't mean solar energy doesn't provide a very real benefit to the grid.

Your movie was absolute trash. Stop relying on it. 

That's good news on battery life.

What you and Emeritus seem to be saying is that more diversity in power generation is good. What I'm saying is that those systems are redundant. If anything has been debunked, it is that more, smaller facilities are more economical than one big one. And that instead of 3,000 biomass plants smelling up the air and burning trees for fuel, the government should subsidize 10,000 plants. And instead of only killing a million birds a year with wind turbines (as some claim), we should subsidize ten times the number of these dinosaurs which might kill ten million insect-eating birds and bats every year. How's that gonna work for the environment?

I think Moore's movie is anything but trash, it is a warning that we are headed down the wrong path, pushed on by narratives that support massive spending and bureaucracies we will never be able to get rid of that will hurt the environment, not help it. And what is it about the movie, by the way that you consider "trash"?

There's a lot more to be said about all the things we are doing to prevent 40 carbon molecules per hundred thousand from going to 42 per hundred thousand over the next decade, and 44, the decade after that, but I'll drop it. (restating the 400-500ppm argument in numbers more people can relate to)

[elfenix 34,168]

On 12/6/2020 at 10:24 AM, Hornius Emeritus said:

No, and I fail to see how you could read what I wrote and come to that conclusion. 

he's a walking, typing straw man. 

[Dahobbs 17,420]

28 minutes ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

That's good news on battery life.

What you and Emeritus seem to be saying is that more diversity in power generation is good. What I'm saying is that those systems are redundant. If anything has been debunked, it is that more, smaller facilities are more economical than one big one. And that instead of 3,000 biomass plants smelling up the air and burning trees for fuel, the government should subsidize 10,000 plants. And instead of only killing a million birds a year with wind turbines (as some claim), we should subsidize ten times the number of these dinosaurs which might kill ten million insect-eating birds and bats every year. How's that gonna work for the environment?

I think Moore's movie is anything but trash, it is a warning that we are headed down the wrong path, pushed on by narratives that support massive spending and bureaucracies we will never be able to get rid of that will hurt the environment, not help it. And what is it about the movie, by the way that you consider "trash"?

There's a lot more to be said about all the things we are doing to prevent 40 carbon molecules per hundred thousand from going to 42 per hundred thousand over the next decade, and 44, the decade after that, but I'll drop it. (restating the 400-500ppm argument in numbers more people can relate to)

What you're saying is absolutely wrong. His movie is trash (and it really isn't even his movie). I've already provided you a pretty critical debunking of it. The certainty in your ignorance is mildly entertaining. 

[Irish Wrist Watch 1,349]

On 12/7/2020 at 10:42 AM, Dahobbs said:

What you're saying is absolutely wrong. His movie is trash (and it really isn't even his movie). I've already provided you a pretty critical debunking of it. The certainty in your ignorance is mildly entertaining. 

What debunking? What points did you make re Planet of the Humans other than the baseline power blah blah? Sounds to me like you didn't see it.

[Dahobbs 17,420]

10 minutes ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

What debunking? What points did you make re Planet of the Humans other than the baseline power blah blah? Sounds to me like you didn't see it.

See below

On 11/10/2020 at 4:52 PM, Dahobbs said:

What the fuck are you talking about? Biomass plants? Who gives a fuck about them? Hydro, wind, and solar are the primary renewables, and the latter two are growing leaps and bounds every year. Renewables are almost 20% of the entire US grid now (7% hydro, 7% wind, 3% solar, 1.5 % biomass). Also, Michael Moore is a fucking idiot. 

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/04/michael-moores-green-energy-takedown-worse-than-netflixs-goop-series/

 

Again, who gives a fuck? Seriously, you're listening to a MTV VJ. You were dumb if you were listening to him when MTV VJs were actually a thing. You're even dumber for listening to him now. 

 

Quote

Let’s say you want to make a documentary about a complex and important topic. You could spend a lot of time on research—developing a complete picture of things, identifying scientists to interview, and figuring out how to give viewers the context necessary to understand the most nuanced issues. Or, you could just go point your camera at stuff until you have an hour and 40 minutes of footage, lay down a voiceover, upload that baby to YouTube, and call it a day.

Planet of the Humans, a documentary made by Jeff Gibbs and Michael Moore, falls into the latter category.

* * *

No math is done at any point, no data is shown for grid-total emissions over time, and no scientists are consulted to quantify emissions or compare different scenarios. Some of the information presented comes from Gibbs’ strategy of plying industry trade-show sales reps and environmental advocates with awkward questions on camera, then stringing together quick-cut clips of people admitting to downsides. The rest comes from Ozzie Zehner—an author of a book critical of renewable energy titled Green Illusions—who is also listed as producer of the film. Zehner is mostly used to explain how raw materials used in green tech are produced, making claims like “You use more fossil fuels to do this than you’re getting benefit from it.”

That’s false. Really, really false. As you’d expect, solar and wind installations produce many times more energy over their lifetimes than was used to produce them, breaking even in a few months to a few years. And that means the lifetime emissions associated with these forms of generations are far, far less than for a gas or coal plant.

* * * 

The film’s argument doesn’t go anywhere because it has nowhere to go. It’s fundamentally not about a path forward or a vision of a better future. It seems more like a long “I told you so.” Multiple speakers tell us that industrial civilization cannot devise a solution because industrial civilization is the problem. Working from that axiom, green energy can’t possibly be good, because industries can make money doing it. Exposing the “scam” of industrial green energy is just a defeatist victory lap.

Ultimately, Planet of the Humans is a mash-up of things Jeff Gibbs doesn’t know, presented as if no one knows them. And for most people, you’ll know less after watching it than you did at the start.

For a documentary about energy, it’s all heat and no light.

If you want more real data and not just misinformation and ignorance, some links for you:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/11/as-renewable-power-prices-drop-researchers-tally-up-their-added-costs/

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/12/study-that-argued-evs-arent-cleaner-gets-an-update/

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03/electric-cars-and-heating-already-have-lower-carbon-footprint/

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/08/nine-gigawatts-of-wind-turbines-were-added-last-year-in-the-us/

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/05/2019-was-first-year-since-1880s-that-us-coal-lost-to-renewable-energy/

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/11/new-report-shows-wind-and-solar-dropping-us-wholesale-electricity-prices/

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/08/wind-power-prices-now-lower-than-the-cost-of-natural-gas/

https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/confronting-duck-curve-how-address-over-generation-solar-energy

https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2018/10-years-duck-curve.html

https://thehub.agl.com.au/articles/2020/03/explainer-the-duck-curve

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306261919304763

 

 

 

 

 

[Dahobbs 17,420]

A few more bits on Planet of Humans bullshit:

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/what-michael-moore-new-film-gets-wrong-about-renewable-energy

"Solar cells are really inefficient.

In one memorable scene, Gibbs visits the Cedar Street Solar Array in Lansing, Mich. A representative from the Lansing Board of Water and Light tells him that the array’s solar cells have less than 8 percent efficiency (the amount of generated energy relative to the incoming solar energy). The utility has roughly 800 solar panels in the array, which can power maybe 10 houses for a year, he says.

That plant, however, was installed in 2008, which is multiple generations ago in solar cell technology time. Efficiencies for standard photovoltaics are much higher now, hovering close to 20 percent. Perovskite solar cells push that efficiency even higher, up to 25 percent. And by creating “tandem” solar cells that layer perovskite on top of silicon, manufacturers can maximize the ability of the cells to absorb light in different parts of the spectrum, increasing the efficiency still further.

Solar cells and wind turbines have such short life spans that manufacturing replacements uses up more fossil fuels than the renewable energies save.

Planet of the Humans suggests that the carbon emissions released from the energy involved in manufacturing new parts and machinery for wind and solar power are greater than any saved emissions from the facilities. “You use more fossil fuels to do this than you’re getting benefit from it,” says Ozzie Zehner, one of the movie’s producers. “You would have been better off burning the fossil fuels in the first place instead of playing pretend.”

But that statement isn’t supported by data. For example, the film claims that “some solar panels” last only 10 years, but today’s solar panels are built to last 20 to 30 years. Similarly, wind turbines have a life span of about 20 to 25 years, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

A 2017 study in Nature Energy reported that the lifetime carbon footprints of solar, wind and nuclear energy power plants are just a fraction of the lifetime footprints of coal and natural gas plants. The study also projects that, in 2050, the energy involved in constructing and operating a solar or wind power plant will be just 3 to 8 percent of its electricity output.

Solar and wind power are too intermittent to ever fully replace fossil fuels.

The question of storing energy generated by renewables so it’s available when the sun isn’t shining or the wind isn’t blowing has dogged renewables for decades (SN: 1/9/17). But battery storage does exist: Some renewable companies use lithium-ion batteries, for example (SN: 5/7/19). And renewable energy utilities in the United States, Australia, Germany, Japan and elsewhere use battery storage systems, though so far they are primarily for short-term storage, amounting to a few hours.

In the film, Gibbs suggests that battery storage capacity — how much energy the batteries can store — is the main obstacle to updating the traditional energy grid. He shows a pie chart apparently based on data from the Paris-based International Energy Agency, which he says shows that current total battery storage capacity is 51 trillion British thermal units. That’s “less than one-tenth of 1 percent of what’s needed” for a year’s worth of energy usage around the globe.

The problem with that argument is that it’s a false premise: To integrate renewables into the grid, it’s not necessary to have enough capacity to match peak global demand — meaning, all of the world’s global energy needs, all at the same time. Instead, as energy writer Ketan Joshi noted on Twitter, an optimized mix of different renewable technologies (and some storage) can work together to keep the lights on."

https://blog.ucsusa.org/john-rogers/movie-review-michael-moores-planet-of-the-humans-traffics-in-myths-errors-and-dangerous-misdirection

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2020/05/michael-moores-planet-of-the-humans-documentary-peddles-dangerous-climate-denial/

https://skepticalscience.com//planet-of-humans-reheated-myth-lazy-old-myths.html

https://www.engineering.com/DesignerEdge/DesignerEdgeArticles/ArticleID/20369/Planet-of-the-Humans-Is-The-Film-Scientifically-Accurate.aspx

 

 

 

 

[HRSchenker 2,257]

I get my car back today! It's been in the shop since December

[Beau Vine 53,965]

Is PHEV talk allowed in here?  If so...

 

The wife and I are going to go down to one car because we never drive (and didn't before pandemic, as we can both walk to work).  

So what I'm looking for is an AWD (will retire to mountains in a few years) SUV (we're large dog people) that's PHEV.

So far I've found:

1.  Subaru Crosstrek (too small)

2.  Mitsubishi Outlander (only gets 25mpg on hybrid mode)

3.  Toyota RAV4 Prime (looks like what we want, but they're only making 5K of them a year and they're apparently all going to Cali)

In fact, all of these seem impossible to get -- Cars.com shows only one of the above vehicles (new or used) available for sale in Texas right now.

Is this going to be impossible to get a Rav4 Prime?  What hassles am I going to run into buying a car in another state?

[Dahobbs 17,420]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

Is this going to be impossible to get a Rav4 Prime? 

Yes. Toyota made an awesome car, got people excited about it, and then proceeded to build like 5 of them. 

Purchasing out of state and bringing to Texas means going to the DMV and paying taxes (6.25%) and fees. So, be prepared to write that check. 

https://www.txdmv.gov/motorists/buying-or-selling-a-vehicle/out-of-state-and-foreign-vehicles

Oh, and if you're willing to expand beyond SUVs, the Chrysler Pacifica PHEV (minivan) is supposed to be awesome. It it also one of only two vehicles (Pacifica/Voyager and the 300) currently made by Chrysler (mind blowing, I know). 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Dahobbs

[elfenix 34,168]

you have two cars now, the car you might want in a few years is currently in short supply (and just say no to mitsubishi), and in a few years there's likely to be even more of the type of car you want due to tightening fuel standard, not just in terms of availability of current models but new models as well.

do you need to buy now?

[Superhero 8,739]

My wife bought herself a Model S last October. It’s been a good car but had some quality issues out of the factory. The paint was pretty bad and we took it into their boy shop to get it fixed. One of the autopilot cameras was also faulty and fixed during the same appointment. 

Prior to the Tesla, she had a MDX. I drive a company Chevy Traverse. Comparatively, the S is tiny and there’s not a lot of storage.

And the S was just updated with a new interior. The main screen is now horizontal, the steering wheel is no longer a wheel and more like a yolk from Knight Rider  There’s also a small screen for the backseat passengers. Cant post pics on my iPad, but you can see it on their site  

https://www.tesla.com/models/design

[Beau Vine 53,965]

you have two cars now, the car you might want in a few years is currently in short supply (and just say no to mitsubishi), and in a few years there's likely to be even more of the type of car you want due to tightening fuel standard, not just in terms of availability of current models but new models as well.
do you need to buy now?

My car is a 2009. It's currently parked underneath the huge tree in front of my house. I'm hoping we get ice that causes one of the limbs to fall on it and total it.

[gmr548 16,463]

I mean the guy is trying his best to CR the thread with conservative policy stance by citing *checks notes*... Michael Moore. Y’all are dealing with a troll or a profoundly stupid human being. Best to ignore and discuss cars regardless.

[Dahobbs 17,420]

49 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

I mean the guy is trying his best to CR the thread with conservative policy stance by citing *checks notes*... Michael Moore. Y’all are dealing with a troll or a profoundly stupid human being. Best to ignore and discuss cars regardless.

Date stamps are your friend. 

[Biff Tannen 45,477]

Random perk about having a Tesla in the garage during a power outage:  I had a huge ass battery just sitting there to charge phones, run heater, etc if needed.  Luckily I was only without power for about 17 hours, but it was nice knowing that was there.

[gsoda3 3,234]

Is PHEV talk allowed in here?  If so...
 
The wife and I are going to go down to one car because we never drive (and didn't before pandemic, as we can both walk to work).  
So what I'm looking for is an AWD (will retire to mountains in a few years) SUV (we're large dog people) that's PHEV.
So far I've found:
1.  Subaru Crosstrek (too small)
2.  Mitsubishi Outlander (only gets 25mpg on hybrid mode)
3.  Toyota RAV4 Prime (looks like what we want, but they're only making 5K of them a year and they're apparently all going to Cali)
In fact, all of these seem impossible to get -- Cars.com shows only one of the above vehicles (new or used) available for sale in Texas right now.
Is this going to be impossible to get a Rav4 Prime?  What hassles am I going to run into buying a car in another state?

Can you wait for the hyundai ioniq 5 to roll out?

[Dahobbs 17,420]

7 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Random perk about having a Tesla in the garage during a power outage:  I had a huge ass battery just sitting there to charge phones, run heater, etc if needed.  Luckily I was only without power for about 17 hours, but it was nice knowing that was there.

Really helped out my household. Brought the three month olds in their on Monday night and stayed up watching Netflix. 

[Beau Vine 53,965]

4 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

On 2/12/2021 at 12:16 PM, Beau Vine said:

Is PHEV talk allowed in here?  If so...
 
The wife and I are going to go down to one car because we never drive (and didn't before pandemic, as we can both walk to work).  
So what I'm looking for is an AWD (will retire to mountains in a few years) SUV (we're large dog people) that's PHEV.
So far I've found:
1.  Subaru Crosstrek (too small)
2.  Mitsubishi Outlander (only gets 25mpg on hybrid mode)
3.  Toyota RAV4 Prime (looks like what we want, but they're only making 5K of them a year and they're apparently all going to Cali)
In fact, all of these seem impossible to get -- Cars.com shows only one of the above vehicles (new or used) available for sale in Texas right now.
Is this going to be impossible to get a Rav4 Prime?  What hassles am I going to run into buying a car in another state?

Can you wait for the hyundai ioniq 5 to roll out?

I want a PHEV, not an all-electric.

[Biff Tannen 45,477]

Going to throw this in the Tesla thread too.  This is pretty huge news that got by me last month.  Toyota finally flipping its stance on EVs.  They had always touted hydrogen fuel cell tech for the future and more or less poo-pooh'd EVs, but seems they see the writing on the wall.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22833997/toyota-ev-investment-lexus-concept-vehicles

Quote

Toyota is ramping up its electric vehicle production schedule, vowing to release 30 electric vehicles by 2030 rather than just 15 EVs by 2025, as was previously promised. The Japanese automaker also vowed to sell 3.5 million battery EVs globally by 2030 and to transform Lexus into an EV-only brand by 2035.

The company said it would invest 2 trillion yen ($17.6 billion) in battery vehicle technology, an increase over its previous commitment of 1.5 trillion yen ($13.6 billion).

 

[High Plains Drifter 10,970]

 

Anybody have anything to say about the F150 EV that's I'm seeing on the TV?

 

 

[kangsta 50]

We bought a 2021 Model Y which came in in late October. Opted for the black paint, black wheels, white interior, 7 seater. It's our first Tesla/EV and the wife is absolutely obsessed with it. Kids love it too.  My only real complaint is that you need to use the damn screen to open the glovebox. 

Glad we ordered when we did because 6 months later the starting price is already $5k more. 

[texhorn 351]

I had a Polestar 2 delivered right after Thanksgiving. MY21, Dual motor LR, performance, plus and pilot. First BEV and I love it. Looked at the Model 3 also but was really turned away with the quality issues with Tesla and the Polestar felt like a true car from the ground up, not a software application first, car second like the Teslas do.

[Francisco 2.0 32,290]

On 1/6/2022 at 2:34 PM, High Plains Drifter said:

 

Anybody have anything to say about the F150 EV that's I'm seeing on the TV?

 

 

 

I think they will sell every one they will build.  And companies that have fleets of F-150's, that never leave a metro area, will buy them up as well.  I'd have one in a minute.  

It is, functionally, a F-150.  It's a known quantity, just with electric power. Yes, there are going to be towing limitations, but Ford will happily sell you a gas or diesel truck if that's a concern.  

Compare it to Tesla's "truck" or a Rivian.   Sure, they are edgy and unique, but a squad of plumbers aren't going to be using one to get to their job.   

I suspect the Chevy truck will sell well too.  

 

 

 

[52-80 19,066]

On 1/6/2022 at 8:47 PM, Biff Tannen said:

Going to throw this in the Tesla thread too.  This is pretty huge news that got by me last month.  Toyota finally flipping its stance on EVs.  They had always touted hydrogen fuel cell tech for the future and more or less poo-pooh'd EVs, but seems they see the writing on the wall.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22833997/toyota-ev-investment-lexus-concept-vehicles

 

thats a big bellwether if there was ever one

[52-80 19,066]

On 1/6/2022 at 9:34 PM, High Plains Drifter said:

Anybody have anything to say about the F150 EV that's I'm seeing on the TV?

im not a truck guy but the rivian looks awfully tempting if i was, and didnt necessary need to tow like 10ft lengths of lumber and stacks of bricks

 

On 1/7/2022 at 8:40 PM, kangsta said:

We bought a 2021 Model Y which came in in late October. Opted for the black paint, black wheels, white interior, 7 seater. It's our first Tesla/EV and the wife is absolutely obsessed with it. Kids love it too.  My only real complaint is that you need to use the damn screen to open the glovebox. 

Glad we ordered when we did because 6 months later the starting price is already $5k more. 

use voice control.  "open glovebox"

On 1/9/2022 at 3:05 AM, texhorn said:

I had a Polestar 2 delivered right after Thanksgiving. MY21, Dual motor LR, performance, plus and pilot. First BEV and I love it. Looked at the Model 3 also but was really turned away with the quality issues with Tesla and the Polestar felt like a true car from the ground up, not a software application first, car second like the Teslas do.

polestar 2 based on existing c40/xc40 platform and i didnt trust polestar had the software engineering because BEV is very much software controlled (BMS programming, integration of rest of car systems, etc).  but i really like the polestar especially the interior (and those seats!) and hope you enjoy it

[Post Oak 20,182]

On 1/8/2022 at 8:23 PM, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

I think they will sell every one they will build.  And companies that have fleets of F-150's, that never leave a metro area, will buy them up as well.  I'd have one in a minute.  

It is, functionally, a F-150.  It's a known quantity, just with electric power. Yes, there are going to be towing limitations, but Ford will happily sell you a gas or diesel truck if that's a concern.  

Compare it to Tesla's "truck" or a Rivian.   Sure, they are edgy and unique, but a squad of plumbers aren't going to be using one to get to their job.   

I suspect the Chevy truck will sell well too.  

 

 

 

I'm gonna try to get another couple of years out of my 2011 F150.  Then I'm on to the Lightning.  

[Dahobbs 17,420]

On 1/8/2022 at 8:05 PM, texhorn said:

I had a Polestar 2 delivered right after Thanksgiving. MY21, Dual motor LR, performance, plus and pilot. First BEV and I love it. Looked at the Model 3 also but was really turned away with the quality issues with Tesla and the Polestar felt like a true car from the ground up, not a software application first, car second like the Teslas do.

I think the Tesla quality issues are extremely exaggerated, but I'm really glad you like your car. Polestar 2 has a great interior. It really helps to have that Volvo institutional knowledge.