How to talk to Republicans who don't like "your facts" or facts in general.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

13 hours ago, Enchubben said:

This is all valid. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with the pros/cons of public vs private education.

Im saying it’s complete fabricated bullshit that somehow republicans blanketly or even as a majority think we shouldn’t have to pay for public education and that only rich people should get a quality education so that we can preserve “the class structure”. 

I'm not so sure. Certainly on that other site run by your large state school counterparts I've seen plenty of folks that wish to privatize the entire system. How many believe that overtly I couldn't say. (sorry for the 'some people are saying' excuse but I haven't explored it to that extent). It is known through research, however, what happened during the 60s and 70s with respect to suburban flight, busing, education, property taxes, and school districts and we've been grappling with this for a very long time. Very few districts are willing to zone for economic disparity and nothing will get parents more angry than that. I know first hand. Racism is a very real part of that. I know first hand in that respect, too.  However, I am not going to upload the emails I received from serving on committees for boundary rezones. Let's just say, the things people won't say to the newspaper, they somehow feel free to say to another community member trying to serve all students not just the wealthy white ones. Edgewood ISD v Kirby was in 1993. 1993! And parents and educators are still wrangling with this 'Robin Hood' court case. It's one of those things where no one questions WHY we have school districts set up the way we do, but no one wants the political bomb of dissecting Texas public education and figuring out if the way districts are organized is of benefit to all minor citizens. Most states are set up similarly, but the bulk of my family's experience has been with Texas.

It's a touchy subject, but as adults we should be ashamed that we cannot sit down at the table and talk about this. Since that case appeared before the court, those children range in age from 32 to 45 years old (approximately K-12 when the case appeared before the Texas SC). And all the children thereafter. It's more than money.

 Our schools are more segregated now than they were prior to the 70s. It's not healthy for our society as a whole, but I have no fixes. I have derailed the thread, so I'll stop here, but I could go on for a lot more on this particular soapbox.

Edit--accidentally hit 'submit' before I finished.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Mrs Whiggins

[Biff Tannen 45499]

12 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

What I have found talking to a couple of guys I can actually discuss things with is that they realize Trump is a fool and the Republicans are crooks.   But instead of taking the GOP to task and holding them accountable, they are all in this phase of bothsiderism.  "Yeah well my guys are crooked, but your's are just as crooked if not more so.   At least my crooks are looking out for me."     

So it's a mixed situation.  While they admit foul shit going on, they condone it.   They condone it because it benefits them.   

If we could somehow get the "fake news" thing put to bed, then maybe we'd start righting the ship.  Quit running things off of emotion and start using logic and fact.

But critical thinking has been washed from our world.  Too many people have been educated to be cogs without even considering to analyze what is going on, much less rage against the machine.

 

This is such a huge problem.  It's a combination of cognitive dissonance, not wanting to admit to themselves that they are supporting awful shit, and years of brainwashing from right wing media.  The both-sides mentality is the ultimate result.  They've been convinced it's all just shit, so why bother?  It's black and white instead of having any sense of nuance.  I think this was actually more understandable pre-dotard, but now, come on man.  The gulf between the evils of the Rs and the evils of the Dems is laughably huge.

[Brisketexan 104628]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

This is such a huge problem.  It's a combination of cognitive dissonance, not wanting to admit to themselves that they are supporting awful shit, and years of brainwashing from right wing media.  The both-sides mentality is the ultimate result.  They've been convinced it's all just shit, so why bother?  It's black and white instead of having any sense of nuance.  I think this was actually more understandable pre-dotard, but now, come on man.  The gulf between the evils of the Rs and the evils of the Dems is laughably huge.

This.  The "both sides" shit is 100% a tool for lazy rationalization.  And we know this because that thinking fails to include any concepts of degree/proportion, much less proof.

It's as if Ted Bundy was running for office against Joe Blow, who was once convicted of running a stop sign.  "They're both criminals, and Ted Bundy said he'd lower my taxes, and put America first, so I'm votin' for him!"  It's all rationalization, which they only lazily try to disguise as evidence-based reasoning.  It's not.  It's just more cognitive dissonance and idiocy.

[SydneyCarton 47884]

39 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I'm not so sure. Certainly on that other site run by your large state school counterparts I've seen plenty of folks that wish to privatize the entire system. How many believe that overtly I couldn't say. (sorry for the 'some people are saying' excuse but I haven't explored it to that extent). It is known through research, however, what happened during the 60s and 70s with respect to suburban flight, busing, education, property taxes, and school districts and we've been grappling with this for a very long time. Very few districts are willing to zone for economic disparity and nothing will get parents more angry than that. I know first hand. Racism is a very real part of that. I know first hand in that respect, too.  However, I am not going to upload the emails I received from serving on committees for boundary rezones. Let's just say, the things people won't say to the newspaper, they somehow feel free to say to another community member trying to serve all students not just the wealthy white ones. Edgewood ISD v Kirby was in 1993. 1993! And parents and educators are still wrangling with this 'Robin Hood' court case. It's one of those things where no one questions WHY we have school districts set up the way we do, but no one wants the political bomb of dissecting Texas public education and figuring out if the way districts are organized is of benefit to all minor citizens. Most states are set up similarly, but the bulk of my family's experience has been with Texas.

It's a touchy subject, but as adults we should be ashamed that we cannot sit down at the table and talk about this. Since that case appeared before the court, those children range in age from 32 to 45 years old (approximately K-12 when the case appeared before the Texas SC). And all the children thereafter. It's more than money.

I'm not going to sit here and say it's all racism. And i'm not going to say it's overtly classism, either. But I think it's absolutely about money and greed.

 

I have a co worker, lovely woman. She's french. Well, technically Algerian. She, not surprisingly, has some socialism leanings, and she's pretty left. Why wouldn't she be, France has a ton of of socialist principles implemented in their government and way of life. But ask her about the Robin Hood initiative and the loss of money from her Spring Branch school district and watch her get fucking pissed off and start cussing. People are complex creatures, and MINE is a pretty core, lizard brain value. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by SydneyCarton

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

On that front, I do have some news from one of the neighbors. Apparently, the Trump vote must have won out, which you all said would happen because said neighbor must have been under the delusion that the silent Trump wave was a thing. In the yard this week and was informed that now that Biden won, 'their plans were going to change.'

Me: 'Oh? With the down ballot race results, I thought you'd be pleased that your original idea of leaving the top race blank and voting R was a success?'

Neighbor: "No. With Biden winning, the squad is going to come after my guns so I'm moving them out to our place in the country."

Me: 'Really? Do you have some sort of illegal weapon or something? I don't think anyone is coming for your rifles and other guns."

Neighbor: "Oh, yeah they are. Only a matter of time."

Me: "Ok, well, good luck with the move then. Those gun safes are heavy."

 

Sigh. This neighbor is retired and I have run out of cares.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Mrs Whiggins
Reply was to Biff and Brisket

[wildcat09 29258]

13 hours ago, Enchubben said:

This is all valid. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with the pros/cons of public vs private education.

Im saying it’s complete fabricated bullshit that somehow republicans blanketly or even as a majority think we shouldn’t have to pay for public education and that only rich people should get a quality education so that we can preserve “the class structure”. 

I mean, we could take your word for it, or we could look at elected Republicans actually do. Trust me, it's a really tough choice for us.

[Huckleberry 32703]

5 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

On that front, I do have some news from one of the neighbors. Apparently, the Trump vote must have won out, which you all said would happen because said neighbor must have been under the delusion that the silent Trump wave was a thing. In the yard this week and was informed that now that Biden won, 'their plans were going to change.'

Me: 'Oh? With the down ballot race results, I thought you'd be pleased that your original idea of leaving the top race blank and voting R was a success?'

Neighbor: "No. With Biden winning, the squad is going to come after my guns so I'm moving them out to our place in the country."

Me: "Really? Do you have some sort of illegal weapon or something? I don't think anyone is coming for your rifles and other guns That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard."

Neighbor: "Oh, yeah they are. Only a matter of time."

Me: "Ok, well, good luck with the move then. Those gun safes are heavy I didn't think you were this dumb."

 

Sigh. This neighbor is retired and I have run out of cares.

Fixed that conversation for you. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Fixed that conversation for you. 

I may wait until the guns are moved before I try that but I have always liked your sentiment about how to tackle this.

[Brisketexan 104628]

18 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I mean, we could take your word for it, or we could look at elected Republicans actually do. Trust me, it's a really tough choice for us.

This.  I mean, it's literally a platform that they have executed everywhere they can.  Choke out public education in favor of private (and remember, the important part is that private education is FOR PROFIT) education.  Betsy DeVos ring a bell?

[SydneyCarton 47884]

16 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Fixed that conversation for you. 

I'll tell you. I'm pretty close to jumping on the vocal calling out of stupidity at every turn bandwagon you are on, good sir. I've discussed it at length with other people, and I've run through the scenario of just running the bus over my MIL if she is snide and rude to my wife about politics one more time. Shockingly, I'm getting pushback from my wife. Of course, she's also be consistently horrified throughout our relationship by my willingness to engage in public conflict with people. To her this feels like turning things up to 15 on a 10 point scale and then setting it on fire with accelerant. 

In unrelated news, I noticed that our block has suddenly had a huge uptick in the amount of American flags being raised. Even in yards that had no political signs before. Several of them are obviously new and right out of the package. I'd say on our small street there's been 3-4 new flags put out in the last week. While I'm all for tacking back the flag from being a blunt signal from the right, it's also hard not to go:

[SydneyCarton 47884]

30 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

On that front, I do have some news from one of the neighbors. Apparently, the Trump vote must have won out, which you all said would happen because said neighbor must have been under the delusion that the silent Trump wave was a thing. In the yard this week and was informed that now that Biden won, 'their plans were going to change.'

Me: 'Oh? With the down ballot race results, I thought you'd be pleased that your original idea of leaving the top race blank and voting R was a success?'

Neighbor: "No. With Biden winning, the squad is going to come after my guns so I'm moving them out to our place in the country."

Me: 'Really? Do you have some sort of illegal weapon or something? I don't think anyone is coming for your rifles and other guns."

Neighbor: "Oh, yeah they are. Only a matter of time."

Me: "Ok, well, good luck with the move then. Those gun safes are heavy."

 

Sigh. This neighbor is retired and I have run out of cares.

IF you have a chance to revisit this conversation, you should enjoy yourself more. "Oh, how's the gun moving going? You know, it occurred to me...the government is going to have records of your property in the country. If they're coming for your weapons, honestly, the country might be the first place they look to seize them. There's less of a chance of you being there to defend them. I think it would be the first place they look. Have you considered burying them? I mean, you know the government keeps records of everything and tracks everywhere you go."

[DonkeyCigars 144]

unrelated news, I noticed that our block has suddenly had a huge uptick in the amount of American flags being raised. Even in yards that had no political signs before. Several of them are obviously new and right out of the package. I'd say on our small street there's been 3-4 new flags put out in the last week. While I'm all for tacking back the flag from being a blunt signal from the right, it's also hard not to go:

^^^ Could have been for Veteran's Day or some HOA thing; do you think that's a possibility or you would have known about that so probably not?

Edited November 13, 2020 by DonkeyCigars

[DonkeyCigars 144]

5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'll tell you. I'm pretty close to jumping on the vocal calling out of stupidity at every turn bandwagon you are on, good sir. 

It's definitely one way to approach the question of "How to talk to Republicans who don't agree with your facts or facts in general.". Radical candor is good and if someone is approaching you and offering stupid opinions or commentary, I can see the value in being rude and shutting them up thereby all but guaranteeing you won't have to deal with that person or listen to their inanity again.

[Brisketexan 104628]

6 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

 

 

^^^ Could have been for Veteran's Day or some HOA thing; do you think that's a possibility or you would have known about that so probably not?

I've seen more flags out on our block, starting right after the election.....and they are all being put out by Biden supporters.  There's very much an element of reclaiming a symbol of our nation.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Brisketexan

[DonkeyCigars 144]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I've seen more flags out on our block, starting right after the election.....and they are all being put out by Biden supporters.  There's very much an element of reclaiming a symbol of our nation.

Gotcha. Good stuff. 

[SydneyCarton 47884]

10 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

 

 

^^^ Could have been for Veteran's Day or some HOA thing; do you think that's a possibility or you would have known about that so probably not?

It could have been for Veterans day, but they went up early and they're still there, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. 

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I've seen more flags out on our block, starting right after the election.....and they are all being put out by Biden supporters.  There's very much an element of reclaiming a symbol of our nation.

Hope you're right. But not what my gut says. 

[SydneyCarton 47884]

8 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

It's definitely one way to approach the question of "How to talk to Republicans who don't agree with your facts or facts in general.". Radical candor is good and if someone is approaching you and offering stupid opinions or commentary, I can see the value in being rude and shutting them up thereby all but guaranteeing you won't have to deal with that person or listen to their inanity again.

Lol, this is a fun line you're trying to walk. 

Tell me, do you think that society as a whole when people who make mistakes aren't corrected? Because not challenging anyone hasn't worked out so well for us in recent history. Where is the line drawn between when courtesy trumps correction and improvement and accountability? Is not conceding an election because no one will hurt the President's wittle bitty feelings by telling him he fucking lost good for America? Because not calling people out because it's "difficult" in my opinion has not worked so well for society. 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

37 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Lol, this is a fun line you're trying to walk. 

Tell me, do you think that society as a whole when people who make mistakes aren't corrected? Because not challenging anyone hasn't worked out so well for us in recent history. Where is the line drawn between when courtesy trumps correction and improvement and accountability? Is not conceding an election because no one will hurt the President's wittle bitty feelings by telling him he fucking lost good for America? Because not calling people out because it's "difficult" in my opinion has not worked so well for society. 

Good questions and I mention radical candor for a reason, not as a joke but because I believe it's important for communicating to everyone, but especially with those you disagree with but have to live, work and play (or have Thanksgiving with).

I think it's good to challenge and agree not challenging is bad. But what does challenge mean (in context of the OP/Thread Question)? Does that mean "You are stupid and you should feel bad for being stupid, pass the yams." a la obnoxious aggression (on both sides) or does it mean something else? Personally, I think if you care to have conversations across the aisle (not saying you have to), there is a healthy way to challenge firmly but respectfully.

If you are of the mind the other party isn't worthy of your respect or time, then so be it, but then you are essentially saying "I don't have the patience or care to communicate with described in the OP".

I agree there is definitely a line where courtesy for the sake of decorum and manners is enabling and trumps the correction, as you call it (or what I would suggest should be honest feedback) a la ruinous empathy.

On the whole I agree with you and from what I am synthesizing from your posts, I think you'd agree.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by DonkeyCigars

[horn4life 3755]

What's funny is how fucking low the bar is for outrage for Republicans?  Now if on the DAY President Trump should leave if he doesn't, Republicans will.... perhaps act like Americans.  But not before then?

Some factual opening statements to help guide Trumpsters?

1) You are aware that even before Covid Trump created fewer jobs annually than the economy he inherited while exploding the deficit don't you? You aware of this fact?

2) You know that President Trump refused to answer a single question in the Robert Mueller Russian interference probe about Obstruction of Justice? You are aware of this fact?

3) You are aware that none of the relatives of Donald Trump, Ivanka and Jared that served in the Whitehouse were able to pass a security background check? You are aware of this fact?

The problem is that facts simply must be avoided by Republicans these days, simply as the lies are a lot more palatable. I think the main takeaway is that Republicans are as a group simply dishonest and world class hypocrites.  They KNOW the things they say are dishonest, but it's fun!

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by horn4life

[Gourmand 7774]

I appreciate Donkey sticking around and taking his lumps. However, I can't help but be struck by his earlier admission that he chooses to not be informed about presidential politics because he thinks it's largely irrelevant. Shorter version: eh it doesn't matter what's happening because it will all probably be okay. That's not a healthy approach for a functioning democracy. 

When informed about the actual craziness and misdeeds of the Trump administration, his response is "well, is it legal?" How would you ever know if you don't pay attention in the first place? And what kind of exceptionally low standard is that?

Trump has broken the law, before and during his presidency, over and over and over. He's gotten away with it because of his Republican sycophants in Congress and he will continue to do so as long as they refuse to hold him accountable and as long as loyalists like Donkey keep their heads up their ass and keep voting R. 

 

[immamac 42519]

20 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

I appreciate Donkey sticking around and taking his lumps. However, I can't help but be struck by his earlier admission that he chooses to not be informed about presidential politics because he thinks it's largely irrelevant. Shorter version: eh it doesn't matter what's happening because it will all probably be okay. That's not a healthy approach for a functioning democracy. 

When informed about the actual craziness and misdeeds of the Trump administration, his response is "well, is it legal?" How would you ever know if you don't pay attention in the first place? And what kind of exceptionally low standard is that?

Trump has broken the law, before and during his presidency, over and over and over. He's gotten away with it because of his Republican sycophants in Congress and he will continue to do so as long as they refuse to hold him accountable and as long as loyalists like Donkey keep their heads up their ass and keep voting R. 

 

I mean this is more than 60% of America if I had to guess. (the 30% that don't vote at all, and the other 30% of people that just vote cuz whatever the 2nd 30% break 70/30 GOP/dem in my estimation)

[DonkeyCigars 144]

26 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

I appreciate Donkey sticking around and taking his lumps. However, I can't help but be struck by his earlier admission that he chooses to not be informed about presidential politics because he thinks it's largely irrelevant. Shorter version: eh it doesn't matter what's happening because it will all probably be okay. That's not a healthy approach for a functioning democracy. 

When informed about the actual craziness and misdeeds of the Trump administration, his response is "well, is it legal?" How would you ever know if you don't pay attention in the first place? And what kind of exceptionally low standard is that?

Trump has broken the law, before and during his presidency, over and over and over. He's gotten away with it because of his Republican sycophants in Congress and he will continue to do so as long as they refuse to hold him accountable and as long as loyalists like Donkey keep their heads up their ass and keep voting R. 

 

I don’t know that I said exactly that; I was saying more that I’m not up to the minute, hour or even day, but will try and aggregate and get up to speed on a weekly basis, usually from two mediums; Surlyhorns CR/ you guys and AppleNews when I’m bored of Buzz-feed’s listicles about what foods and customs Euros find weird about Americans.

You are right in that I could not care less what Trump is blathering about from last week until Jan.5th or whenever the pumpkin date is, and I don’t even find a little bit of humor in the trolling he’s doing.

I do think “is it illegal, tho” is a good barometer for this specific case: we are talking about people absolutely losing their minds about hypothetical and catastrophized theoreticals of Trump being Julius Caesar because he’s throwing a tantrum and finding loopholes/legal ways to obstruct or confuse or deny with the remaining window of time he has left. 

If you are expecting the guy—who has never shown any decorum or reverence to tradition and graciousness and professionalism is not going to follow the follow the unwritten rules of baseball here because he’s a disruptive troll and pest— if you are expecting this guy to be gracious in his last hours of highest power (in USA) and with the bully pulpit, then I guess more power to you and your eternal optimist and hope in people against all odds.

I don’t think it matters a whit that Trump is playing make believe office and let’s create a budget and busy work Biden will trash, or that Biden isn’t getting a thorough transition plan. A) Because they are probably worthless and riddled with bad data and strategy, and B) That’s politics, baby.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

I may not agree with @DonkeyCigars but I also prefer when those with differing perspectives or opinions discuss them in good faith.

When winter is here, we're going to have to decide if we want to work things out to our mutual benefit, or make the globe inhabitable because we all can't agree we're human. This pale blue dot doesn't have to hold human life, it can always be home to other forms that are able to survive and get along better than we do.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

Just now, Mrs Whiggins said:

I may not agree with @DonkeyCigars but I also prefer when those with differing perspectives or opinions discuss them in good faith.

When winter is here, we're going to have to decide if we want to work things out to our mutual benefit, or make the globe inhabitable because we all can't agree we're human. This pale blue dot doesn't have to hold human life, it can always be home to other forms that are able to survive and get along better than we do.

I don’t mind Biden and wish him well. Honestly.

More than that I wish Pfizer and Moderna well. I’m happy to tolerate and keep quiet and not be ugly about a Biden Presidency for 8 years and let the game keep going and let’s see.

[Brisketexan 104628]

1 minute ago, DonkeyCigars said:

If you are expecting the guy—who has never shown any decorum or reverence to tradition and graciousness and professionalism is not going to follow the follow the unwritten rules of baseball here because he’s a disruptive troll and pest— if you are expecting this guy to be gracious in his last hours of highest power (in USA) and with the bully pulpit, then I guess more power to you and your eternal optimist and hope in people against all odds.

Then...and here's a wacky thought.....YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE INSTALLED SUCH A COMPLETE SHITBAG IN THE MOST POWERFUL OFFICE ON THE MOTHERFUCKING ENTIRE GODDAMNED PLANET.  That's literally the LAST place you would want to install such a horrific, narcissist shitbag.

2 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I don’t think it matters a whit that Trump is playing make believe office and let’s create a budget and busy work Biden will trash, or that Biden isn’t getting a thorough transition plan. A) Because they are probably worthless and riddled with bad data and strategy, and B) That’s politics, baby.

Actually, no, it's not.  It NEVER has been.  This doesn't happen, it never has before.  This isn't "politics, baby."  It's fucking national security.  It's a goddamned country going through a pandemic that has already killed a quarter of a million people, physically harmed many more, and crippled our economy.  This isn't just "politics, baby" -- it's fucking LITERALLY a matter of life and death.  So fuck him and anyone who gives him even 1% of a pass for this shit.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Then...and here's a wacky thought.....YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE INSTALLED SUCH A COMPLETE SHITBAG IN THE MOST POWERFUL OFFICE ON THE MOTHERFUCKING ENTIRE GODDAMNED PLANET.  That's literally the LAST place you would want to install such a horrific, narcissist shitbag.

Actually, no, it's not.  It NEVER has been.  This doesn't happen, it never has before.  This isn't "politics, baby."  It's fucking national security.  It's a goddamned country going through a pandemic that has already killed a quarter of a million people, physically harmed many more, and crippled our economy.  This isn't just "politics, baby" -- it's fucking LITERALLY a matter of life and death.  So fuck him and anyone who gives him even 1% of a pass for this shit.

Wake up Brisket: Trump (and the ugly, ugly side of technology) has ushered in a new era of politics. You, of all people, should have resigned to an acknowledgment of what thou eyes have seen and the doom it portends. Isn’t that the talk track?

But maybe Biden winning was a referendum against that. Jury is still out.

Edited November 13, 2020 by DonkeyCigars

[Brisketexan 104628]

Just now, DonkeyCigars said:

Wake up Brisket: Trump (and the ugly, ugly side of technology) has ushered in a new era of politics. You, of all people, should have resigned to an acknowledgment of what thou eyes have seen and the doom it portends. Isn’t that the talk track?

Oh, I agree.  We drank ALL the poison, and now here we sit, forever changed, and forever worse for it.....

 

But remember this -- you ushered him in with your vote.  I hold you responsible.  And the hell of it is, you know you're responsible for it, too.

 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, I agree.  We drank ALL the poison, and now here we sit, forever changed, and forever worse for it.....

 

But remember this -- you ushered him in with your vote.  I hold you responsible.  And the hell of it is, you know you're responsible for it, too.

 

Fair deal.

[Gourmand 7774]

3 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I do think “is it illegal, tho” is a good barometer for this specific case: we are talking about people absolutely losing their minds about hypothetical and catastrophized theoreticals of Trump being Julius Caesar because he’s throwing a tantrum and finding loopholes/legal ways to obstruct or confuse or deny with the remaining window of time he has left. 

You're missing the bigger point. You're lowering the standard of conduct to Julius Caesar comparisons and ignoring the dangerous implications of a sitting president  undermining the incoming administration by convincing a large number of his supporters that the results are not valid. In the meantime, his allies in Congress refuse to criticize him and thereby validate that view. You can dismiss it as just part of his brand but it has an actual effect on the erosion of our democracy. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Just now, Gourmand said:

You're missing the bigger point. You're lowering the standard of conduct to Julius Caesar comparisons and ignoring the dangerous implications of a sitting president  undermining the incoming administration by convincing a large number of his supporters that the results are not valid. In the meantime, his allies in Congress refuse to criticize him and thereby validate that view. You can dismiss it as just part of his brand but it has an actual effect on the erosion of our democracy. 

This. Vladimir Putin is the President of Russia. Alexander Lukashenko is the President of Belarus (its first and only since he took office 26 years ago). Would you believe that their elections are fair and free? ( Rhetorical)

What is the difference between the presidencies? A gossamer thread, that is the difference. Some think it is much more robust than that, but IMO it is only as strong as the will of the people to fight for it.

[workswithseed 2037]

@DonkeyCigars talking about trump as Julius Caesar makes me think of this.

 

[Anastasis 23394]

2 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

@DonkeyCigars talking about trump as Julius Caesar makes me think of this.

 

He probably considers every day that he doesn’t end up in the bottom of a 50 gallon barrel a win. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I've seen more flags out on our block, starting right after the election.....and they are all being put out by Biden supporters.  There's very much an element of reclaiming a symbol of our nation.

Glad they fell in love with it again.  Seriously...and tongue in cheek, simultaneously.

Hell, when things are bad, the past 4 years from their perspective, they should be even more emboldened.  Nobody likes a frontrunner.

[Brisketexan 104628]

3 minutes ago, slorch said:

Glad they fell in love with it again.  Seriously...and tongue in cheek, simultaneously.

Hell, when things are bad, the past 4 years from their perspective, they should be even more emboldened.  Nobody likes a frontrunner.

The problem has been the co-opting of the symbol of the flag as not representing the country, but rather only representing a particular political affiliation.  And that's not a mystery -- they told us as much.  Anyone not on the "Trump Train" isn't a "real American," is disloyal, etc.  Their President set that tone -- he openly stated that he would only provide beneficial leadership to red states, and would (and actually did) punish blue states.  The American flag became not the flag of the country, but the flag of the regime.  And I sure as shit wasn't going to fly the flag of the regime.  A lot of folks felt the same way.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

7 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'm not going to sit here and say it's all racism. And i'm not going to say it's overtly classism, either. But I think it's absolutely about money and greed.

 

I have a co worker, lovely woman. She's french. Well, technically Algerian. She, not surprisingly, has some socialism leanings, and she's pretty left. Why wouldn't she be, France has a ton of of socialist principles implemented in their government and way of life. But ask her about the Robin Hood initiative and the loss of money from her Spring Branch school district and watch her get fucking pissed off and start cussing. People are complex creatures, and MINE is a pretty core, lizard brain value. 

Ask her how she feels when people without kids are paying for her kids' education in Spring Branch. Personally I'm cool if my tax dollars were spread 100% around the state as opposed to giving to HISD to overspend.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The problem has been the co-opting of the symbol of the flag as not representing the country, but rather only representing a particular political affiliation.  And that's not a mystery -- they told us as much.  Anyone not on the "Trump Train" isn't a "real American," is disloyal, etc.  Their President set that tone -- he openly stated that he would only provide beneficial leadership to red states, and would (and actually did) punish blue states.  The American flag became not the flag of the country, but the flag of the regime.  And I sure as shit wasn't going to fly the flag of the regime.  A lot of folks felt the same way.

On that topic, I couldn't agree more.   It was becoming bullshit that (reasonable) folks even started equating that with Trumpism.

I never did, because of what it means to me; but wholly hell it was creepy AF just feeling that mindset come around..

[elfenix 34171]

The problem has been the co-opting of the symbol of the flag as not representing the country, but rather only representing a particular political affiliation.  And that's not a mystery -- they told us as much.  Anyone not on the "Trump Train" isn't a "real American," is disloyal, etc.  Their President set that tone -- he openly stated that he would only provide beneficial leadership to red states, and would (and actually did) punish blue states.  The American flag became not the flag of the country, but the flag of the regime.  And I sure as shit wasn't going to fly the flag of the regime.  A lot of folks felt the same way.

Kaep kneeling became an insult to the military, as if the flag only represents the armed services. Here I thought the army, navy, corps, air force, and coast guard and space force had their own flags/ensigns/jacks/etc.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 hour ago, elfenix said:

Kaep kneeling became an insult to the military, as if the flag only represents the armed services. Here I thought the army, navy, corps, air force, and coast guard and space force had their own flags/ensigns/jacks/etc.

I love how they’re offended by Kaep kneeling because it “disrespects the flag” yet they literally changed the colors of the American flag to support police. If anything, that is truly disrespectful to the American flag. Definitely more so than kneeling during an anthem. But we all know why they don’t like kaep kneeling and it has nothing to do with disrespecting the flag...

[Shaddie 1638]

As a republican before 2106 I think I know what to tell them. 
 

A group that so efficiently stole this election and has media, poll workers, Republican governors, Secretary of States and almost 80mil in on the scam and nobody has blabbed or admit it  Don’t you want those extremely smart and dedicated people running the government?

 

Didnt go thru entire thread so somebody may have already said this. 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Shaddie
Lazy

[JimmyJames 12271]

On 11/13/2020 at 7:51 PM, youdunnf'dup said:

I love how they’re offended by Kaep kneeling because it “disrespects the flag” yet they literally changed the colors of the American flag to support police. If anything, that is truly disrespectful to the American flag. Definitely more so than kneeling during an anthem. But we all know why they don’t like kaep kneeling and it has nothing to do with disrespecting the flag...

Smurf lives matter brah.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

As with the stages of grief, I’ve noticed a tone change on Facebook with Trumpkins. They’re hanging onto desperation that the Supreme Court will toss out all mailed in ballots. Barring that, they seem to think that electors in the EC will come to their senses and vote trump. On the final item, if the counts was 270-268, I suppose there could be a chance. But we’re at 306.

I think reasonable republicans, yes they exist, have already moved on. The smart ones. The hard core trump fans are going to extend their crap for 2-3 months. 

[Goredho 17349]

Hey, man, it was a tough election, I’m just glad it’s over...

*pause to savor*

...and that YOU GOT KICKED SQUARE IN YOUR TRUCK NUTS!!!!  MAHAHHAHAHAGA!!!!

[Mdhorn 5911]

Can't remember who posted the link to the book (and thanks for the initial link) by Shea Sorrano: How to Talk to Republicans, but they sent an email update for the money paid for the book:

A Less Difficult Conversation

Hello. It's Shea. At some point in the past two or so weeks, you downloaded a book I wrote called A DIFFICULT CONVERSATION — How To Talk To Trump Supporters. 

The book was posted as a free thing because (largely) it was a joke. It was just 64 pages of different ways to tell someone to fuck off, which I thought was hilarious. Here's the thing, though: despite the fact that I put it up for free, a bunch of people paid money for it. So many people paid for it, in fact, that I ended up making $98,160 off it. For context, that's nearly four times as much as I was paid to write The Rap Year Bookin 2015, and that was a fucking real book, lol. 

Anyway, Larami and I didn't want the money so we just took it and donated it all. Every single penny went somewhere. We gave $21,600 to the University of Texas at San Antonio to pay the tuition for two undocumented immigrant students who were about to begin their senior years. We gave $20,000 to the Charles Round Bloom Project, $25,000 to the Martinez Street Women's Center, $10,000 to the Black Futures Collective (these are all organizations in San Antonio working to make things better for people), $7224 to various people on Twitter so they could pay their rent, and the remaining $14,336 went to the south Texas chapter of Planned Parenthood. 

So that's what's up. I just wanted to give you all an update. 

[JBJ 3649]

On 11/13/2020 at 10:41 AM, Brisketexan said:

This.  I mean, it's literally a platform that they have executed everywhere they can.  Choke out public education in favor of private (and remember, the important part is that private education is FOR PROFIT) education.  Betsy DeVos ring a bell?

No.  Can you even name a for-profit school in your area? In Texas?

Edited November 17, 2020 by JBJ

[horn4life 3755]

New education link for the merry Trumpsters.  The site is a spoof, but the information?  Mostly accurate from a first glance.

https://djtrumplibrary.com/

[horn4life 3755]

On 11/13/2020 at 7:51 PM, youdunnf'dup said:

I love how they’re offended by Kaep kneeling because it “disrespects the flag” yet they literally changed the colors of the American flag to support police. If anything, that is truly disrespectful to the American flag. Definitely more so than kneeling during an anthem. But we all know why they don’t like kaep kneeling and it has nothing to do with disrespecting the flag...

Don't you go Big Fro Bro....

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

Geezus fucking Christ!!

 

[Brisketexan 104628]

21 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Geezus fucking Christ!!

 

As a nation, we have a cancer of stupidity, and it's fucking ginormous.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

23 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Geezus fucking Christ!!

 

Unbelievable. Hopefully this dipshit didn’t ask for a parent teacher conference over this. These teachers have enough on their plates. 

[Hawndoh 2382]

Oh I've sat through many parent conferences for even dumber stuff.