How surprised are you by the Trump Era?

[AnTiM 1659]

More surprised with every passing day that so many people refuse to admit that Trump is the liar, thief, and con artist that the rest of us have always known he is.  Simply amazing that so many are so blind to the facts.

[TwiceHorn 31280]

On 11/11/2020 at 2:32 PM, RDCanecutter said:

Well, Vietnam cost us many more lives than current wars, and most guys didn't get to decide if they wanted to go or not. It may be apocryphal, but I think Nixon considered nukes.

Dead Kennedys, Dead MLK, Wallace screaming like Suthun Hitluh (I saw him at a rally where they gave out free bbq afterwards, it's why we went. He was angry but boring, and the bbq sucked.)

Right wing fringe didn't larp, they shot people, sometimes they found the bodies buried in dams. Bombed churches. Left wing fringe bombed everything else, didn't larp either.

Fewer mass shootings, it had that going for it.

Was against the law to be gay. Literally against the law.

Kirk kissed Uhuru and it was a big damn deal.

Mean people would physically kick the shit out of people they didn't like. It was like gladiator school out by the baseball dugout.

[edit-- I can't even process how much more shit women had to go through back then.]

 

I guess the best way to put it, is that the bad back then was a lot rawer and more physical. Now, we have Trump making people ill, but it's more mind games. Still real. Depends on what bugs you more.

This is very good stuff.

[TwiceHorn 31280]

27 minutes ago, AnTiM said:

More surprised with every passing day that so many people refuse to admit that Trump is the liar, thief, and con artist that the rest of us have always known he is.  Simply amazing that so many are so blind to the facts.

Yep.  And we've gone from media that merely spins to outright counterfactual shit.

It's not just science-denying.  It's now flat out truth-denying.

[safe sex 11680]

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's not just science-denying.  It's now flat out truth-denying.

Essentially the same. 

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

39 minutes ago, AnTiM said:

More surprised with every passing day that so many people refuse to admit that Trump is the liar, thief, and con artist that the rest of us have always known he is.  Simply amazing that so many are so blind to the facts.

Hans Christian Andersen published The Emperor's New Clothes in 1837 so we know the phenomenon has been around for a long time. But it's still amazing to see. 

[TwiceHorn 31280]

8 minutes ago, trauma babe said:

Essentially the same. 

Well, as technical people, we have to admit that science does not necessarily equal truth.  Science gets stuff wrong from time to time.  

[aggie08 21434]

I am not surprised in the slightest that the populous was brainwashed by a "charismatic" propaganda salesman touting nationalism and good ol' fashioned American values.

I am very surprised that it was this fucking dude that led the charge. The fat, embarrassing "billionaire" that we've all watched do silly shit for 30 years is now the voice of the downtrodden. Being able to swing two coherent sentences together apparently is not required to influence hearts and minds.

[safe sex 11680]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, as technical people, we have to admit that science does not necessarily equal truth.  Science gets stuff wrong from time to time.  

Sure, but just because we don't have the complete truth or a full understanding of a scientific phenomenon doesn't mean that we should deny things as we do understand them. You can even be skeptical while not denying science. In fact, it helps! But skepticism is not what is happening anymore. 

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

On November 11, 2020 at 3:32 PM, RDCanecutter said:

Kirk kissed Uhuru and it was a big damn deal.

*Uhura

It was the first time a white person kissed a black person on screen. At least on TV. I'm not aware that it caused much of a stir in the general public. They got away with it because Kirk and Uhura were under the effects of mind control by sinister aliens. It came shortly after the Supreme Court ruled that interracial marriage was LEGAL. 

The episode was Plato's Stepchildren, if anyone is interested. 

[FOXHOUND 1014]

I'm a black man in America, I am not surprised by the rise of Trump and Trumpism. This cake has been baking for decades since the removal of the Fairness Doctrine and right wing talk radio and Fox News commenced to brainwashing a huge segment of America. If you want to go back further then you could say that it started after the passage of the Civil Rights legislation in the 1960s, there's a segment of the population that has not gotten over it.

Trump spoke to them and validated their feelings. He's the biggest conman in the history of this country this side of Bernie Madoff, but they don't care because he validates how they feel. 

Edited November 15, 2020 by FOXHOUND

[fattyflattie 4636]

Interesting topic. I understand most here believe if you could find any reason to pull the lever for trump, you=Trumper.   It’s not at all what I’ve seen, obviously also anecdotal.  I’d guess 50% or better held their nose pretty fucking hard when they voted.  And I’d bet about 25% would have stayed home if the court packing, DC/PR statehood stuff hadn’t have gotten so hot at the end.  That’s the rest of your life defining shit right there.  

[AUinHsv 576]

5 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

*Uhura

It was the first time a white person kissed a black person on screen. At least on TV. I'm not aware that it caused much of a stir in the general public. They got away with it because Kirk and Uhura were under the effects of mind control by sinister aliens. It came shortly after the Supreme Court ruled that interracial marriage was LEGAL. 

The episode was Plato's Stepchildren, if anyone is interested. 

slightly related but while filming a TV special in 1968 the British singer. Petula Clark held Harry Belafonte's arm. One of the sponsors representatives demanded they shoot the scene again. She and he producer (who was her husband) declined but it shows the mindset of some people in 60's

[Guest Lobo]

There are still people of jerking off age that wanted to keep homosexuality illegal, oppose interracial kisses and marriages, oppose all abortion, and not allow birth control.....who have bookmarked 1000 stepmom taboo porn scenes on their computers.  What a time to be alive 

[Brisketexan 104622]

18 minutes ago, Lobo said:

There are still people of jerking off age that wanted to keep homosexuality illegal, oppose interracial kisses and marriages, oppose all abortion, and not allow birth control.....who have bookmarked 1000 interracial stepmom taboo pegging porn scenes on their computers.  What a time to be alive 

FIF accuracy as to these people.

[Mdhorn 5911]

On 11/15/2020 at 11:15 AM, TwiceHorn said:

Well, as technical people, we have to admit that science does not necessarily equal truth.  Science gets stuff wrong from time to time.  

It gets things wrong plenty because it seeks to improve and get things right.  Why would we want to live with European science from the Middle Ages?  I'm glad we no longer have to fend off small-pox, polio, whooping cough, meningitis, etc.  Hell we have AIDS and pregnancy in control and it starts with masks for our dicks called condoms, with additional pills.  

[TwiceHorn 31280]

On 11/15/2020 at 10:25 AM, trauma babe said:

Sure, but just because we don't have the complete truth or a full understanding of a scientific phenomenon doesn't mean that we should deny things as we do understand them. You can even be skeptical while not denying science. In fact, it helps! But skepticism is not what is happening anymore. 

Agreed.  It's not skepticism and what is being denied is pretty objectively true.

[Guest Lobo]

Tehehehe, he said Dick Masks

[Mdhorn 5911]

7 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Tehehehe, he said Dick Masks

Well, if we were getting laid every time we wore masks, everybody would be wearing masks.  I think we may have found a cure.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Mdhorn

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, but I’m a huge fan of oral.  Giving and receiving.  Mask won’t help me out there.  Then again, there are zero cases traced back to people who were face deep in cunnilingus at the time.  

Edited November 16, 2020 by Lobo

[kevwun 15651]

I could never wrap my mind around Hitler's rise to power.  How did so many people go along with someone so terrible and do awful things themselves right up until the very end?  I no longer have that problem.  I understand how it happened now.

Edited November 16, 2020 by kevwun

[Brisketexan 104622]

2 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I could never wrap my mind around Hitler's rise to power.  How did so many people go along with someone so terrible and do awful things themselves right up until the very end?  I no longer have that problem.  I understand how it happened now.

This.  It really is so easy to understand now.  It's a combination of types, all of whom are necessary, ranging from true-believer zealots to apathetic know-nothings who vote for a letter, and everything in between.

[Kel Varnsen 8430]

34 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Yeah, but I’m a huge fan of oral.  Giving and receiving.  Mask won’t help me out there.  Then again, there are zero cases traced back to people who were face deep in cunnilingus at the time.  

[Neonmoon 38127]

People are too stupid to have nice things 

How does one appeal to this voter?

 

[closetohumping 17401]

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This.  It really is so easy to understand now.  It's a combination of types, all of whom are necessary, ranging from true-believer zealots to apathetic know-nothings who vote for a letter, and everything in between.

And don't forget fear.

[Hookah Horns 3081]

6 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

And don't forget fear.

Fear of the Others, in particular. 

Not the movie. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

On 11/15/2020 at 1:58 PM, fattyflattie said:

Interesting topic. I understand most here believe if you could find any reason to pull the lever for trump, you=Trumper.   It’s not at all what I’ve seen, obviously also anecdotal.  I’d guess 50% or better held their nose pretty fucking hard when they voted.  And I’d bet about 25% would have stayed home if the court packing, DC/PR statehood stuff hadn’t have gotten so hot at the end.  That’s the rest of your life defining shit right there.  

Outside of the pure political consequences give me a legitimately defensible rationale for denying people representation.  

[horn4life 3755]

For the most surprising thing was that the GOP would have gone right off the cliff making Trump President for life.  IF it meant they could maintain control.  Which of course would be an illusion since they gave ALL the control to Trump.

I guess the other surprise was that I honestly believed that some Republican's were truly principled and religious people.  That was wholly inaccurate.

[TwiceHorn 31280]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

People are too stupid to have nice things 

How does one appeal to this voter?

 

Cubana?

I suspect she may not even be able to vote.

[Section4Row36Seat8 76]

I think Trump is the first symptom of a further spreading cancer.  There are a crapload of people that want to give a big FU to the media and perceived elite crowd that tells them what to do and when to do it.  There are a bunch of joe lunchboxes that think those people are the worst thing alive and Trump is the first one to rise to power and validate their feelings.  Trump's problem is he's batshit crazy and too many people were shaking their head going WTF whenever he would send out his 1000 tweets a day.  If you get a more eloquent speaker that can put together a coherent  sentence and carry on the torch of telling the media, political class to F off with language that speaks to the common person without using the system so blatantly to his advantage (see charging millions to the US tax payer for trips to his country club and hotels) then you could see it rise again. 

I don't think this is relegated to lower middleclass white dudes either. Trump stirred something in a decent size group of African Americans too, the ones that are fed up with the democrat system that keeps promising and underdelivers for the past 60 years.   If that movement garners traction you could definitely see an overtly fascist leader rise up and scare the crap out of the political elite class (see Hitler).  

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

On November 15, 2020 at 4:48 PM, AUinHsv said:

slightly related but while filming a TV special in 1968 the British singer. Petula Clark held Harry Belafonte's arm. One of the sponsors representatives demanded they shoot the scene again. She and he producer (who was her husband) declined but it shows the mindset of some people in 60's

I remember hearing about that. 

And then just four years later there was this classic TV kiss:

[BradInATX 9208]

I think Trump is the first symptom of a further spreading cancer.  There are a crapload of people that want to give a big FU to the media and perceived elite crowd that tells them what to do and when to do it.  There are a bunch of joe lunchboxes that think those people are the worst thing alive and Trump is the first one to rise to power and validate their feelings.  Trump's problem is he's batshit crazy and too many people were shaking their head going WTF whenever he would send out his 1000 tweets a day.  If you get a more eloquent speaker that can put together a coherent  sentence and carry on the torch of telling the media, political class to F off with language that speaks to the common person without using the system so blatantly to his advantage (see charging millions to the US tax payer for trips to his country club and hotels) then you could see it rise again. 
I don't think this is relegated to lower middleclass white dudes either. Trump stirred something in a decent size group of African Americans too, the ones that are fed up with the democrat system that keeps promising and underdelivers for the past 60 years.   If that movement garners traction you could definitely see an overtly fascist leader rise up and scare the crap out of the political elite class (see Hitler).  

I don't disagree with most of what you're saying but the black voter thing is crazy talk. Black voters in Philly and Atlanta and Detroit basically won Biden the election.

[Section4Row36Seat8 76]

4 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I don't disagree with most of what you're saying but the black voter thing is crazy talk. Black voters in Philly and Atlanta and Detroit basically won Biden the election.

Do a simple google search. Tons of articles about black men voting for trump in 2020 most ever. Especially the 18-44 crowd. 

[TwiceHorn 31280]

1 hour ago, Section4Row36Seat8 said:

I think Trump is the first symptom of a further spreading cancer.  There are a crapload of people that want to give a big FU to the media and perceived elite crowd that tells them what to do and when to do it.  There are a bunch of joe lunchboxes that think those people are the worst thing alive and Trump is the first one to rise to power and validate their feelings.  Trump's problem is he's batshit crazy and too many people were shaking their head going WTF whenever he would send out his 1000 tweets a day.  If you get a more eloquent speaker that can put together a coherent  sentence and carry on the torch of telling the media, political class to F off with language that speaks to the common person without using the system so blatantly to his advantage (see charging millions to the US tax payer for trips to his country club and hotels) then you could see it rise again. 

I don't think this is relegated to lower middleclass white dudes either. Trump stirred something in a decent size group of African Americans too, the ones that are fed up with the democrat system that keeps promising and underdelivers for the past 60 years.   If that movement garners traction you could definitely see an overtly fascist leader rise up and scare the crap out of the political elite class (see Hitler).  

Of course, the problem with all this is that Trump barely articulated anything in terms of policy, and delivered less than he managed to articulate.

All he did was call people names.

[Satchel 6908]

25 minutes ago, Section4Row36Seat8 said:

Do a simple google search. Tons of articles about black men voting for trump in 2020 most ever. Especially the 18-44 crowd. 

That urban legend is based largely on exit polling that didn’t accurately reflect the myriad of ways black people voted. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

The 'establishment' better help the middle and lower class else yeah they will rise up and turn over the board game one day.

Trump was just a small ripple but its bubbling up fast. 

[BradInATX 9208]

38 minutes ago, Section4Row36Seat8 said:

Do a simple google search. Tons of articles about black men voting for trump in 2020 most ever. Especially the 18-44 crowd. 

I've paid plenty of attention and am well aware of demographics. Biden won almost 90% of the black vote. Your rep and posting history suggests that you're not approaching the conversation in good faith. But if you have some sort of substantive evidence that black Americans are trending Republican, please do put it forward. I'd love to see it. The burden of proof when someone is making an easily-disproven point isn't on the skeptic, it's on you. I'm not going to go "do a simple google search" when someone tells me that vaccines cause autism or the earth is flat either.

Edited November 17, 2020 by BradInATX

[SimonBolivar 10931]

5 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Outside of the pure political consequences give me a legitimately defensible rationale for denying people representation.  

Puerto Rico is brown and they speak Mexican. Also have you seen the Georgetown basketball team?

[Section4Row36Seat8 76]

12 hours ago, BradInATX said:

I've paid plenty of attention and am well aware of demographics. Biden won almost 90% of the black vote. Your rep and posting history suggests that you're not approaching the conversation in good faith. But if you have some sort of substantive evidence that black Americans are trending Republican, please do put it forward. I'd love to see it. The burden of proof when someone is making an easily-disproven point isn't on the skeptic, it's on you. I'm not going to go "do a simple google search" when someone tells me that vaccines cause autism or the earth is flat either.

 

 

https://www.vox.com/2020/11/4/21537966/trump-black-voters-exit-polls

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-men-drifted-democrats-toward-trump-record-numbers-polls-show-n1246447

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-losing-ground-with-white-voters-but-gaining-among-black-and-hispanic-americans/

 

https://en.as.com/en/2020/11/10/latest_news/1605013158_639997.html

I’m not saying republicans are taking over the block vote anytime soon. I’m just saying trump got more than any recent president and his only difference in republican message is F the media. He still had all the same traditional Republican Party platform besides being a dick to the media. 

[Michael Knight 12898]

 

[Biff Tannen 45495]

5 hours ago, Section4Row36Seat8 said:

 

 

https://www.vox.com/2020/11/4/21537966/trump-black-voters-exit-polls

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-men-drifted-democrats-toward-trump-record-numbers-polls-show-n1246447

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-losing-ground-with-white-voters-but-gaining-among-black-and-hispanic-americans/

 

https://en.as.com/en/2020/11/10/latest_news/1605013158_639997.html

I’m not saying republicans are taking over the block vote anytime soon. I’m just saying trump got more than any recent president and his only difference in republican message is F the media. He still had all the same traditional Republican Party platform besides being a dick to the media. 

Honest question.  How much of this shift, however slight in the overall scheme of things, may have had to do with Kanye, et al seemingly embracing the dotard toward the end?  Clearly I am not in this demographic, so I really don't know if those guys have sway over young black males.

[The Royal We 3065]

I wouldn't say I've been surprised, but more disappointed or vexed.  Particularly in a few close friends, most of my family, and most of my coworkers that didn't just go along with Trump because of their irrational fear of socialism (or whatever), but were actual ardent supporters.  With no policies goals to speak of, no value system to guide how he would govern, etc. I just can't understand it.  Between that and the inability to call out blatant wrongdoing and living in an alternative reality of Trump's creation, it's been very hard to watch. 

And watching them continue to participate in this charade after the election makes me doubt that we are going to return to "normal" anytime soon. 

[NAVY 6739]

On 11/15/2020 at 10:15 AM, TwiceHorn said:

Well, as technical people, we have to admit that science does not necessarily equal truth.  Science gets stuff wrong from time to time.  

it’s almost like there is some sort of weird ongoing  “method” of observation, hypothesis testing, rejection and refinement. 
 

In the past, elected officials listened to peeps employing these strange cyclical improvements. Trump era does not. 
 

angers the fuck out of me and I will never forget what these bastards did to convince the dumber amongst us that science wasn’t to be trusted. The damage is unconscionable. 

[washparkhorn 9935]

“One could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness."

Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism 

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/arendt/

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by washparkhorn

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

Even that is too self reflective for the current era imo.  They manage to quarantine all irrefutable proof there was a lie so it never has to be squared. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

I think Trump is the first symptom of a further spreading cancer.  There are a crapload of people that want to give a big FU to the media and perceived elite crowd that tells them what to do and when to do it.  There are a bunch of joe lunchboxes that think those people are the worst thing alive and Trump is the first one to rise to power and validate their feelings.  Trump's problem is he's batshit crazy and too many people were shaking their head going WTF whenever he would send out his 1000 tweets a day.  If you get a more eloquent speaker that can put together a coherent  sentence and carry on the torch of telling the media, political class to F off with language that speaks to the common person without using the system so blatantly to his advantage (see charging millions to the US tax payer for trips to his country club and hotels) then you could see it rise again. 
I don't think this is relegated to lower middleclass white dudes either. Trump stirred something in a decent size group of African Americans too, the ones that are fed up with the democrat system that keeps promising and underdelivers for the past 60 years.   If that movement garners traction you could definitely see an overtly fascist leader rise up and scare the crap out of the political elite class (see Hitler).  

8-12% of Black men, depending on which exit polling you examine, is not what I would call a “decent amount”.

And you’re also ignoring Black women, who voted for Biden at a rate of 99%.

[Thatguy 8503]

 

On 11/16/2020 at 8:03 PM, Section4Row36Seat8 said:

I think Trump is the first symptom of a further spreading cancer.  There are a crapload of people that want to give a big FU to the media and perceived elite crowd that tells them what to do and when to do it.  There are a bunch of joe lunchboxes that think those people are the worst thing alive and Trump is the first one to rise to power and validate their feelings.  Trump's problem is he's batshit crazy and too many people were shaking their head going WTF whenever he would send out his 1000 tweets a day.  If you get a more eloquent speaker that can put together a coherent  sentence and carry on the torch of telling the media, political class to F off with language that speaks to the common person without using the system so blatantly to his advantage (see charging millions to the US tax payer for trips to his country club and hotels) then you could see it rise again. 

I don't think this is relegated to lower middleclass white dudes either. Trump stirred something in a decent size group of African Americans too, the ones that are fed up with the democrat system that keeps promising and underdelivers for the past 60 years.   If that movement garners traction you could definitely see an overtly fascist leader rise up and scare the crap out of the political elite class (see Hitler).  

 

On 11/16/2020 at 9:25 PM, BradInATX said:

I don't disagree with most of what you're saying but the black voter thing is crazy talk. Black voters in Philly and Atlanta and Detroit basically won Biden the election.

 

On 11/16/2020 at 9:31 PM, Section4Row36Seat8 said:

Do a simple google search. Tons of articles about black men voting for trump in 2020 most ever. Especially the 18-44 crowd. 

 

On 11/16/2020 at 9:59 PM, Satchel said:

That urban legend is based largely on exit polling that didn’t accurately reflect the myriad of ways black people voted. 

 

On 11/16/2020 at 10:07 PM, BradInATX said:

I've paid plenty of attention and am well aware of demographics. Biden won almost 90% of the black vote. Your rep and posting history suggests that you're not approaching the conversation in good faith. But if you have some sort of substantive evidence that black Americans are trending Republican, please do put it forward. I'd love to see it. The burden of proof when someone is making an easily-disproven point isn't on the skeptic, it's on you. I'm not going to go "do a simple google search" when someone tells me that vaccines cause autism or the earth is flat either.

 

3 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

8-12% of Black men, depending on which exit polling you examine, is not what I would call a “decent amount”.

And you’re also ignoring Black women, who voted for Biden at a rate of 99%.

 

   We haven't given a single Republican Presidential candidate more than 15% of our vote dating back to the 60's. That's why Joe Biden saying that was only a big deal to White America, and like 5 Black people closely related to Herman Cain and Ben Carson. Black America knew it was true. Outside of a couple rich guys, and some real life(often times one and the same) Clayton Bigsby's, or as we call them around these parts BrothaHorns, Black People stick with the blue. I voted Republican a couple times as my Rumspringa, but quickly came back to the fold.

 

[Thatguy 8503]

On 11/16/2020 at 1:07 PM, Lobo said:

There are still people of jerking off age that wanted to keep homosexuality illegal, oppose interracial kisses and marriages, oppose all abortion, and not allow birth control.....who have bookmarked 1000 BBC cuckold porn scenes on their computers, and stop off at the local adult bookstore in hopes to see one up close.  What a time to be alive 

 

Fixed it for pinpoint accuracy

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Some idiot killing a quarter of a million Americans via homicidal negligence and attempting to overthrow the government was a little surprising. 

[Mole 4320]

Honestly, we've all known how this will play out for weeks (aside from the completely wheels-off Rudy stuff), but it's still surprising to actually see happen.

[cattail 112]

 
 
   We haven't given a single Republican Presidential candidate more than 15% of our vote dating back to the 60's. That's why Joe Biden saying that was only a big deal to White America, and like 5 Black people closely related to Herman Cain and Ben Carson. Black America knew it was true. Outside of a couple rich guys, and some real life(often times one and the same) Clayton Bigsby's, or as we call them around these parts BrothaHorns, Black People stick with the blue. I voted Republican a couple times as my Rumspringa, but quickly came back to the fold.
 

As usual, spot fucking on.