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immamac

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immamac

immamac 44343

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http://www.progressivebullmoose.party/platform/

Election Reform
Abolish corporate personhood.
End partisan gerrymandering.
We support the Open Our Democracy Act which “requires that states establish independent commissions for congressional redistricting; makes Election Day a holiday; and institutes open top-two primaries for House and Senate elections, allowing all voters, including registered Independents and unaffiliated voters to participate in primaries.”
Repeal Citizens United and the McCutcheon rulings.
Kill super PACs and end big money in politics.
Reform campaign finance laws.
Allow open primaries (like in California).
Create a “None of the Above” option in all federal elections.
 

Wall Street and Corporate Reform
End “Too Big to Fail”—bust ‘em apart. Resurrect Glass-Steagall.
Eliminate corporate welfare—including tax breaks, subsidies & loopholes.
Tame rampant income inequality—including establishing equal pay for women, a living wage & increased taxes on the billionaires & 0.01%.
Strengthen Social Security (remove the ceiling).
Cap the size of corporations. End hostile, unproductive takeovers & leveraged buyouts; stop mergers that undermine competition.
Establish measures to bring much greater transparecy to the Federal Reserve, including annual or biennial independent audits (the Fed needs to remain independent of partisan politics, but the American people, ultimately, have a right to know everything that happens).
Re-write the STOCK Act to strengthen the ban on Members of Congress from trading on insider information, eliminating their "abnormally higher returns," and the harm this causes the American people.
Guiding Ideas:
"The man of great wealth owes a peculiar obligation to the state because he derives special advantages from the mere existence of government." —Theodore Roosevelt,
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." —Franklin D. Roosevelt,
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we cannot have both." —Louis D. Brandeis, U.S. Supreme Court Justice (1916-1939)
"An imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics." —Plutarch, Ancient Greek Historian (c. 46-120 A.D.)
 

Smaller, More Responsive Government
Establish term limits—including lobbyists, congressional staffers, agency “lifers,” and the Supreme Court (18 years), with a rotating Chief Justice (every 6 years).
Establish merit-based selection of U.S. Supreme Court justices, with two-thirds supermajority confirmation in the U.S. Senate.
Rein in government spending. Balance the budget. Payoff the debt.
Rein in corporate lobbying, including a 3-year “cooling off” period, increased transparency and monitoring, and stronger sanctions (fines and imprisonment) for violations.
Halt domestic spying without a warrant. Abolish secret courts.
Establish a national referendum over extended military action (“The War Powers Act of 1973 gives the president the power to wage war for 60 days before an authorization from Congress is needed.”)
 

Environmental Reform
Invest in clean, renewable energy.
Move the country away from fossil fuels, while working with corporations to transition workers to new jobs.
Demand clean water and clean air.
Protect our oceans, rivers, and lakes from pollution, toxic dumping, and over-fishing.
Continue to reduce carbon emissions.
Repeal immediately the "Monsanto Protection Act," and the DARK Act (Deny Americans Right to Know Act).
 

Stage 2 Priorities: Implement the Progressive Agenda—
 

Women’s Rights
Eliminate the gender pay gap.
Provide 90 days of paid family leave.
Protect women’s health education
Require the boards of all public companies to have at least 40% women (and at least 40% men too).
 

Immigration Reform
First and foremost, take immediate, reasonable steps to strengthen our borders, protect border communities, and bring an end to illegal immigration.
Establish a just, humane path to citizenship that allows immigrant families to stay together, pay taxes, and contribute to the betterment of the United States. As Ronald Reagan said in his 1984 election, “I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and who have lived here even though sometime back they may have entered illegally.”
Enforce the laws against employers that are illegally hiring illegal immigrants.
Partner with our Latin American neighbors and allies around the world to reduce the extreme income inequality that drives migration.
 

Student Loan Reform
End the federal government’s profiteering off student loan programs.
Curb excessive student loan interest rates.
Make public colleges and universities tuition free.
 

Health Care
Establish a free healthcare system for all U.S. citizens, one that is equivalent to the healthcare available to members of the U.S. Congress.
Eliminate the health insurance industry (We currently spend one-third of all healthcare dollars on billing and bureaucracy. This doesn’t even include the profits that go to insurance companies. This makes no sense. We propose to eliminate the health insurance industry and replace it with a single payer system.).
Require the government to negotiate lower prices for healthcare costs and prescription drugs.
 

Gun Laws
We fully support the U.S. Constitution, including the Second Amendment.
We do not support the increasing militarization of the police.
We believe in reasonable backgroud checks for all gun buyers (but we do not suppport a “national gun registry” or unlawful government surveillance of gun buyers)
Guiding Ideas:
"The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace in the world… The first step – in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come – is to teach men to shoot!" —Theodore Roosevelt
"To be prepared for war, is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.” —George Washington
"By calling attention to ‘a well regulated militia,’ ‘the security of the nation,’ and the right of each citizen ‘to keep and bear arms,’ our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy… The Second Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason I believe the Second Amendment will always be important." —John F. Kennedy
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." —Thomas Jefferson
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms… disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." —Thomas Jefferson
"You won’t get gun control by disarming law-abiding citizens. There’s only one way to get real gun control: Disarm the thugs and the criminals, lock them up and if you don’t actually throw away the key, at least lose it for a long time… It’s a nasty truth, but those who seek to inflict harm are not fazed by gun controllers. I happen to know this from personal experience." —Ronald Reagan
 

Law Enforcement
End the war on drugs. Do not legalize drugs, but decriminalize personal possession. Treat drug use and abuse as a public health issue, not a crime.
Recalibrate the DEA to focus on harm reduction and treatment programs, while continuing to focus on drug cartels, and keeping drugs out of the hands of kids.
Legalize, regulate, and tax cannabis like alcohol.
Outlaw private prisons.
End mandatory minimums.
Abolish asset forfeiture.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 30579

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, immamac said:

Election Reform
Abolish corporate personhood.
End partisan gerrymandering.

You had me at Election Reform, I passed out at partison gerrymandering.

I'll have to hit the link when I've got time to concentrate. I've been dying for a reform movement. I voted for Jerry Brown in the presidential primaries a hundred years ago because he was running on reform. Maybe the current shitshow will give the issue some legs.

I'm always wrong, but a man can dream. Thanks for the link!

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90642

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1 hour ago, Willfully Horn said:

So, add a plank that commits to paying down the debt. It will pull in Rs. And it will strengthen our country.

You know, a lot of the "OMG SOCIALISM" stuff that Rs rail about, whether it's public education or Social Security or whatever, would actually fit into "strengthening our country" if they looked looked at it from 35,000 feet instead of down in the weeds.

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Goredho

Goredho 17654

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10 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

You know, a lot of the "OMG SOCIALISM" stuff that Rs rail about, whether it's public education or Social Security or whatever, would actually fit into "strengthening our country" if they looked looked at it from 35,000 feet instead of down in the weeds.

I don’t think it’s a vantage point problem for the GOP.  Their governance is 100% on target if their aim is to preserve the privileged access to money and power for a select few as the nation tips from a white voting majority to a white voting minority.

I like the platform in the original post.  I could vote for someone pushing that as long as doing so wasn’t effectively a vote for someone like Trump in the established parties.

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27-25

27-25 2085

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Without a change to the election system, voting for a third party probably just means strengthening the other party you least want to win.

Ranked voting (you think the average American can wrap their head around that?) or proportional representation would do the trick I guess.  Don't see either of those happening.

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Tuco

Tuco 5093

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The last couple of years, I was involved with the Nebraska Dem Party and met a couple from rural Nebraska who identified themselves as being from the Bull Moose faction of the Democratic Party.  If nothing else, I think it is better marketing.  It is near impossible to get many rural Nebraskans to consider voting for a Democrat. The platform above could play in rural communities, but not if it has a "D" associated with it.  (Note that the platform does not contain the word "abortion" in it.) 

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ztejas

ztejas 44228

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, immamac said:

Create a “None of the Above” option in all federal elections

Yeah it's called not fucking voting.

And some of the ideas above are fine and serious things that we should be clamoring for. Some of them sound like something an edgy 15 year old in debate class would be demanding.

Edited by ztejas
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Viper

Viper 12219

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Posted
17 hours ago, immamac said:

http://www.progressivebullmoose.party/platform/

Election Reform
Abolish corporate personhood.
End partisan gerrymandering.
We support the Open Our Democracy Act which “requires that states establish independent commissions for congressional redistricting; makes Election Day a holiday; and institutes open top-two primaries for House and Senate elections, allowing all voters, including registered Independents and unaffiliated voters to participate in primaries.”
Repeal Citizens United and the McCutcheon rulings.
Kill super PACs and end big money in politics.
Reform campaign finance laws.
Allow open primaries (like in California).
Create a “None of the Above” option in all federal elections.
 

 

well I'm out

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kevwun

kevwun 16438

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All the original Bull Moose party did was split the Republican vote and help elect Woodrow Wilson.  That is pretty much all 3rd parties can do in our current system.  If it gains momentum and splits the Democrats, it will help elect whatever hell beast emerges form the Republican Primary,

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MC Fresh Breath

MC Fresh Breath 4075

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I really personally wish that all these third parties would somehow combine, even given their differences in platforms/ideals.  The third party idea already has a baked in stigma to overcome, and all that corporate money.   I noticed that the Movement for a People's Party is trying to convince (or may they're just wishing out loud) someone like AOC to join them and thus somewhat legitimize them.  

The Democrats successfully sued this year to get the Green Party removed from ballots in various states.   

People have to realize that right vs left has little meaning when it is truly elites/corps vs the rest of us.  In this fantasy of mine, folks gather together around one issue, such as healthcare for all (which even Fox News viewers agree with) and that's your third party.  The healthcare for all party.  And you run someone exciting and get them into the Senate and go from there.

In real life, I think most of us just watch the collapse and bemoan it while also managing to fight each other instead of punching up.

 

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ztejas

ztejas 44228

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1 minute ago, kevwun said:

All the original Bull Moose party did was split the Republican vote and help elect Woodrow Wilson.  That is pretty much all 3rd parties can do in our current system.  If it gains momentum and splits the Democrats, it will help elect whatever hell beast emerges form the Republican Primary,

I'm not sure how anyone that wants to "kill super PACs and end big money in politics" would successfully align with the democratic party.

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MC Fresh Breath

MC Fresh Breath 4075

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, kevwun said:

All the original Bull Moose party did was split the Republican vote and help elect Woodrow Wilson.  That is pretty much all 3rd parties can do in our current system.  If it gains momentum and splits the Democrats, it will help elect whatever hell beast emerges form the Republican Primary,

as opposed to the Democrats already letting a hell beast beat their ass once and nearly twice.

 oops, that's that fight each other thing i just mentioned.  dangit, hoisted on my own petard.

 

Edited by MC Fresh Breath
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Rimbo

Rimbo 27012

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14 minutes ago, kevwun said:

All the original Bull Moose party did was split the Republican vote and help elect Woodrow Wilson.  That is pretty much all 3rd parties can do in our current system.  If it gains momentum and splits the Democrats, it will help elect whatever hell beast emerges form the Republican Primary, 

This is the grim reality.

In multiparty systems, governments are formed by broad-based coalitions forming, so several parties will pool together. The coalitions aren't organized as parties, but the groups that form them are.

In our two-party system, the coalitions are named as parties and the groups that form them aren't.

In other words... in practice, there's no real difference.

This "Bull Moose" party, just like the last one (and it's hilarious how the GOP strategists behind this one are quite aware of it), exists to break up the Democratic Party's coalition, since the GOP as it currently stands cannot win the presidency except by weakening the Democratic Party's stronghold.

Y'all are falling for one of the oldest tricks in the book. Stop it.

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immamac

immamac 44343

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15 minutes ago, kevwun said:

All the original Bull Moose party did was split the Republican vote and help elect Woodrow Wilson.  That is pretty much all 3rd parties can do in our current system.  If it gains momentum and splits the Democrats, it will help elect whatever hell beast emerges form the Republican Primary,

IDK why everyone thinks the 3rd party needs to be in the executive branch at the Federal level. Get Bull Moose going in the Congress and somehow, they influence LEGISLATION. Imagine if they legislation was progressive and not the executive branch legislating from the seat of the POTUS. What a concept.

14 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I really personally wish that all these third parties would somehow combine, even given their differences in platforms/ideals.  The third party idea already has a baked in stigma to overcome, and all that corporate money.   I noticed that the Movement for a People's Party is trying to convince (or may they're just wishing out loud) someone like AOC to join them and thus somewhat legitimize them.  

The Democrats successfully sued this year to get the Green Party removed from ballots in various states.   

People have to realize that right vs left has little meaning when it is truly elites/corps vs the rest of us.  In this fantasy of mine, folks gather together around one issue, such as healthcare for all (which even Fox News viewers agree with) and that's your third party.  The healthcare for all party.  And you run someone exciting and get them into the Senate and go from there.

In real life, I think most of us just watch the collapse and bemoan it while also managing to fight each other instead of punching up.

 

The problem is the grift. The political machine, even the Dems are all about money. The less candidates they have the less money they can spend on them (makes no fucking sense, it's all a grift). It's team bullshit instead of saying "our policy is better than yours and therefore we will get more votes". Again, focusing on LEGISLATIVE positions first is how the 3rd party will eventually come to power. Not by getting elected to the office of the President and dragging others downballot with them.

There is no such thing as national parties, everything is hyper localized from a campaign perspective, down to targeting people who live in a specific district. Stop acting like we have to market a party to the "masses" when you can just say hey this is how the progressive policies of some 3rd party benefit YOU where YOU are.

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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19305

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Ok, so I went through and actually thought about each of these and added my own thoughts here.  

http://www.progressivebullmoose.party/platform/

Election Reform - Largely agree except for my concern about Open Primaries.
Abolish corporate personhood.
End partisan gerrymandering.
We support the Open Our Democracy Act which “requires that states establish independent commissions for congressional redistricting; makes Election Day a holiday; and institutes open top-two primaries for House and Senate elections, allowing all voters, including registered Independents and unaffiliated voters to participate in primaries.”
Repeal Citizens United and the McCutcheon rulings.
Kill super PACs and end big money in politics.
Reform campaign finance laws.
Allow open primaries (like in California). I would propose a multiple round election similar to what France has.  Maybe have three rounds?  Go open primary, top 4-6 in second round then top 2.  California has open primaries, and there are races where it is all Democrats which can suppress turnout.  And we want more people to vote.
Create a “None of the Above” option in all federal elections.  
 

Wall Street and Corporate Reform
End “Too Big to Fail”—bust ‘em apart. Resurrect Glass-Steagall.  This has always been my thought.  I was against the bank and auto bailouts in 2008/2009.  I was ok with the stimulus for COVID-19, but IMO, the money should have been put in the people's hands.  
Eliminate corporate welfare—including tax breaks, subsidies & loopholes. While I am ok getting rid of a lot of these, subsidies are the way we are going to move to a Green Future, so you have to be very careful here.  Not all tax breaks/subsidies/loopholes are bad things.  Of course, I would like to see for tax purposes individuals get similar deductions, like the cost of you housing should be deductable from your income.  
Tame rampant income inequality—including establishing equal pay for women, a living wage & increased taxes on the billionaires & 0.01%.
Strengthen Social Security (remove the ceiling). I am only supportive of removing the ceiling if the following is done:  1.  I get a deduction for the tax I pay in, 2.  Currently, even though I max out contributions every year, the max I will ever see (if I see it) is 3300 a month.  If that money that is paid by me and my employer were allowed to be invested on my behalf, I would see a lot more than that.  3.  Return SS proceeds to being tax free if you are not going to give me a tax deduction on the contribution.  
Cap the size of corporations. End hostile, unproductive takeovers & leveraged buyouts; stop mergers that undermine competition.  Don't believe in capping the size of corporations, but ok with really enforcing the monopoly laws we have in place, especially when they are bad actors.  I would like mergers to be looked at with a lot more scrutiny.
Establish measures to bring much greater transparecy to the Federal Reserve, including annual or biennial independent audits (the Fed needs to remain independent of partisan politics, but the American people, ultimately, have a right to know everything that happens).
Re-write the STOCK Act to strengthen the ban on Members of Congress from trading on insider information, eliminating their "abnormally higher returns," and the harm this causes the American people. This is, IMO, one of the most important one.
 

Smaller, More Responsive Government - Agree with all of this!
Establish term limits—including lobbyists, congressional staffers, agency “lifers,” and the Supreme Court (18 years), with a rotating Chief Justice (every 6 years).
Establish merit-based selection of U.S. Supreme Court justices, with two-thirds supermajority confirmation in the U.S. Senate.
Rein in government spending. Balance the budget. Payoff the debt.
Rein in corporate lobbying, including a 3-year “cooling off” period, increased transparency and monitoring, and stronger sanctions (fines and imprisonment) for violations.
Halt domestic spying without a warrant. Abolish secret courts.
Establish a national referendum over extended military action (“The War Powers Act of 1973 gives the president the power to wage war for 60 days before an authorization from Congress is needed.”)
 

Environmental Reform - Have no issues here, and I am in the Oil and Gas industry.  Moving to green energy creates opportunity to everyone.
Invest in clean, renewable energy.
Move the country away from fossil fuels, while working with corporations to transition workers to new jobs.
Demand clean water and clean air.
Protect our oceans, rivers, and lakes from pollution, toxic dumping, and over-fishing.
Continue to reduce carbon emissions.
Repeal immediately the "Monsanto Protection Act," and the DARK Act (Deny Americans Right to Know Act).
 

Stage 2 Priorities: Implement the Progressive Agenda—
 

Women’s Rights
Eliminate the gender pay gap.
Provide 90 days of paid family leave.
Protect women’s health education
Require the boards of all public companies to have at least 40% women (and at least 40% men too). - Why don't have corporate boards largely reflect the employees of the firm?  Or the population of the Country in general?  Why just 40%?
 

Immigration Reform
First and foremost, take immediate, reasonable steps to strengthen our borders, protect border communities, and bring an end to illegal immigration. - I think we have to make it easier for people to come here legally.  I like the idea of a checklist, like is used in Europe.  You check a bunch of boxes, you get a visa.  We should welcome anyone that wants to come here, work hard, and contribute.  
Establish a just, humane path to citizenship that allows immigrant families to stay together, pay taxes, and contribute to the betterment of the United States. 
Enforce the laws against employers that are illegally hiring illegal immigrants.
Partner with our Latin American neighbors and allies around the world to reduce the extreme income inequality that drives migration.
 

Student Loan Reform
End the federal government’s profiteering off student loan programs.
Curb excessive student loan interest rates.
Make public colleges and universities tuition free. - This is probably my biggest one I have an issue with.  I am all for making Community Colleges free.  However, 4 year Universities, IMO, should cost something.  Maybe it is something like it used to be in Texas where it was capped at XX per semester hour.  However, that being said, Universities require a LOT of administration, and a lot of that money goes to that.  It is an interesting problem.  I would also support some sort of payment over the life of your working life instead of all up front. So for instance, say you want to go to UT to get a math degree and become a teacher.  While there you pay something like 100 a semester hour.  That is pretty minimal.  Then, you sign a contract to have 100 per month deducted once you are gainfully employed.   The college invests in your, and you pay it back over your 30-40 year career, though I do think you cap the amount. 
 

Health Care
Establish a free healthcare system for all U.S. citizens, one that is equivalent to the healthcare available to members of the U.S. Congress. - It isn't fully free, it is paid by taxes.  I think there should be strict guidelines on what is covered under this as well.  Anything elective, not covered.
Eliminate the health insurance industry (We currently spend one-third of all healthcare dollars on billing and bureaucracy. This doesn’t even include the profits that go to insurance companies. This makes no sense. We propose to eliminate the health insurance industry and replace it with a single payer system.).
Require the government to negotiate lower prices for healthcare costs and prescription drugs. - Eliminate advertising for Prescription Drugs.
 

Gun Laws
We fully support the U.S. Constitution, including the Second Amendment.
We do not support the increasing militarization of the police.
We believe in reasonable background checks for all gun buyers - None of this addresses Semi-Automatic or Automatic Rifles.  I think for those things, you do have a registry.  Also, make bump stocks, etc.. illegal.

 

Law Enforcement
End the war on drugs. Do not legalize drugs, but decriminalize personal possession. Treat drug use and abuse as a public health issue, not a crime.
Recalibrate the DEA to focus on harm reduction and treatment programs, while continuing to focus on drug cartels, and keeping drugs out of the hands of kids.
Legalize, regulate, and tax cannabis like alcohol.
Outlaw private prisons.
End mandatory minimums.
Abolish asset forfeiture.

 

So basically, I am good to go with most of this.  I think a lot of people would be.

I would also say that you need to fix the tax code.  It is way too fucking complicated.  Let's say you did a "Flat Tax".  You would have your income from all sources, including investments all be considered the same kind of income minus your deduction.  This is where I would simplify it.  Your deduction is based on the following:  Get a deduction for your housing costs (i.e. Mortgage payment x 12 months + Property Tax and Insurance or Rent x 12 months + Insurance), a deduction for Contributions to Non-Profits - capped at 20% of your Gross Income, SALT Deduction (NO CAP)).  And that is it.  Nothing else.  States and cities (NYC has a city tax) should do something similar where it is a "flat tax" with the same deductions.  Then, for people making under 500k a year in taxable income, that is taxed at one rate for Federal, State, Local.  Then for Income over 500k in taxable income, that is taxed at another rate for Federal State, Local.  Then if you have assets in excess of 5M, you pay a percentage tax on that each year.  Also, the estate tax should go back to a lower exemption, like 1M.

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Willfully Horn

Willfully Horn 8261

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4 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

 

Understand the inertia behind your mirth.

when I need more money, to feel I have enough, I earn more money. Raise the funds to pay down the debt, and strengthen the Republic. 
 

if you have objections, make them known, so they can be vetted.

Edited by Willfully Horn
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