Race, Religion & Resistance

[pyrohornIII 4,809]

CBS re-ran a documentary on this yesterday.   I figure if George Morgan can spout his stuff here, then there is room for this too.   Christianity has always been an oppressive religion and this points out a lot of the how and whys when it comes to America.  The Moral Majority is just another step.

Quote

“RACE, RELIGION & RESISTANCE” WILL BE BROADCAST SUNDAY, APRIL 1, ON THE CBS TELEVISION NETWORK

RACE, RELIGION & RESISTANCE, a CBS Interfaith Special, looks at the root causes of racism and the ways in which people of faith are working to redeem the soul of America. This special broadcast will air Sunday, April 1 (check local listings) on the CBS Television Network.

Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove discusses how, since the country’s inception, Christianity has been used to justify racism and the sin of white supremacy. He is a speaker, activist and author of Reconstructing the Gospel: Finding Freedom from Slaveholder Religion.

Kaitlin Curtice is a Native American Christian speaker and author of Glory Happening. Though her father was Potawatomi and her mother was a non-Native Christian, she was raised in the church but had little connection to her indigenous identity until now. As she works to decolonize her faith, Curtice hopes her own story can act as a bridge between indigenous voices from both inside and outside the church.

Rev. Nancy Frausto is associate rector at St. Luke’s Episcopal Church in Long Beach, Calif. St. Luke’s is a multi-racial congregation that is providing support and sanctuary to those directly affected by the immigration policies put forward by the current administration. While Frausto serves as a pastor, she is also a DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) recipient, and her status is uncertain, even while she ministers to her community.

The Rt. Rev. John Harvey Taylor, bishop coadjutor of the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles, speaks of the immigration challenges facing religious institutions in the current political climate.

John P. Blessington is senior executive producer and Liz Kineke is producer. In creating the topics and content for this series, they sought input from religious scholars, clergy and others including Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Islamic, Sikh and various interfaith organizations.

Following the April 1 air date, this program may be viewed again at www.cbsnews.com/religion-and-culture. “Like” us on Facebook.com/CBSReligion, and follow us on Twitter @CBSReligion.

* * *

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/race-religion-resistance/

[atomheartbevo 89,409]

They should at least toss in that it was Christians in the North who started the abolition movement.  Those churches pushing for freeing the slaves were kind of a big deal. 

[gsoda3 3,236]

That's some selective history. If your summarative paragraph is indicative of the video you posted it's not worth the time of day. The church has had its fair share of blame but Christians also have been at the forefront of Justice and mercy missions throughout history, sometimes even while the organized church has committed atrocities.

[pyrohornIII 4,809]

I don't dispute either of those things. Christianity is full of good and bad.  There are a lot of different ways to be a Christian.  Mother Theresa v Tammy Faye Baker.   

Yes it is selective history.   This isn't a program that weighs the merits of Christianity over the long run.  It is a program that points out some of the negatives and tries to explain why these negatives happened and what some of the consequences were/are.    This ties into the discussion of how religion is used to manipulate politics and vice versa. 

Had you guys seen the documentary already?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,356]

Organized religion is just like every other seemingly benevolent group.

They do a lot of good when they stick to their mission, but capable of a lot of damage when corrupted by bad actors.

[Brisketexan 104,561]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Organized religion is just like every other seemingly benevolent group.

They do a lot of good when they stick to their mission, but capable of a lot of damage when corrupted by bad actors.

This.

We have to acknowledge that a faith that gave us some rather simple truths, like:

Quote

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’^[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. ³⁹ And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’^[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

.......

'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

.....is also the faith that gives us the modern "evangelical" movement, which rests on a foundation of venality, cruelty, and hate.

Same book.  Same "faith" (in name, at least).  Two diametrically opposed results.

For me, I see a great opportunity for Christianity these days.  What has been corrupted must die; only then can you have the resurrection.  I know quite a few faith leaders who are driven by the commandments I quoted, who are working towards LIVING the Gospel out in the world.  That's what Christianity should be.  And maybe, once the modern incarnation of evangelical "Christianity" completes its self-immolation, there will be space for that Christianity to spread its wings.  Right now, Christianity is largely a label, and a weapon.  Perhaps someday, it can again be what it is supposed to be -- a WAY.

Either way, as an individual person of faith, live the quotes.  Live the Gospel, out in the world.  And stand against evil when it rears its head, even in your own community and church.

[Mole 4,320]

Solid post Brisket. Until recent years, the great movements for freedom and equality came out of the church. Throughout the Bible, there's a consistent theme of justice and freedom for the oppressed and anger at the oppressor. 

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But You have seen, for You observe trouble and grief, To repay it by Your hand. The helpless commits himself to You; You are the helper of the fatherless. Break the arm of the wicked and the evil man; Seek out his wickedness until You find none.

Quote

Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.

Quote

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[WhatTheBuck 28,705]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

They should at least toss in that it was Christians in the North who started the abolition movement.  Those churches pushing for freeing the slaves were kind of a big deal. 

But it wasn't because they were Christian. Slaveholders in the South were Christian and they used their religion and their scripture  to justify the practice of slavery. Frederick Douglas reported that the more pious the owner the more abusive they were to their slaves. 

People don't get their values from their religion. They get their values from their upbringing, from their environment, from their culture, from education and experience and whatever level of enlightenment they seek to achieve. Then they interpret their religion in a way that fits those values. Peaceful people practice a peaceful religion. Violent people practice a violent religion. Every religion has both. 

[Brisketexan 104,561]

26 minutes ago, Mole said:

Solid post Brisket. Until recent years, the great movements for freedom and equality came out of the church. Throughout the Bible, there's a consistent theme of justice and freedom for the oppressed and anger at the oppressor. 

 

Yeah, but let's be damned clear -- arguments in favor of slavery, against the civil rights movement, against allowing interracial marriage....were REGULARLY faith-based.  Just some examples:

Quote

“Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.”

— Judge Leon M. Bazile, January 6, 1959

..........

Bilbo wrote that “[p]urity of race is a gift of God . . . . And God, in his infinite wisdom, has so ordained it that when man destroys his racial purity, it can never be redeemed.” Allowing “the blood of the races [to] mix,” according to Bilbo, was a direct attack on the “Divine plan of God.” There “is every reason to believe that miscengenation and amalgamation are sins of man in direct defiance to the will of God.”

..........

Ross Barnett won Mississippi’s governorship in a landslide in 1960 after claiming that “the good Lord was the original segregationist.” 

Oh, and if you were unsure about the connection between the modern fundagelical movement and racism....no need to be unsure:

Quote

Bob Jones University excluded African Americans completely until the early 1970s, when it began permitting black students to attend so long as they were married. In 1975, it amended this policy to permit unmarried African American students, but it continued to prohibit interracial dating, interracial marriage, or even being “affiliated with any group or organization which holds as one of its goals or advocates interracial marriage.” As a result, the Internal Revenue Service revoked Bob Jones’ tax-exempt status.

This decision, that the IRS would no longer give tax subsidies to racist schools even if they claimed that their racism was rooted in religious beliefs, quickly became a rallying point for the Christian Right. Indeed, according to Paul Weyrich, the seminal conservative activist who coined the term “moral majority,” the IRS’ move against schools like Bob Jones was the single most important issue driving the birth of modern day religious conservatism. According to Weyrich, “t was not the school-prayer issue, and it was not the abortion issue,” that caused this “movement to surface.” Rather it was what Weyrich labeled the “federal government’s move against the Christian schools.”

When Bob Jones’ case reached the Supreme Court, the school argued that IRS’ regulations denying tax exemptions to racist institutions “cannot constitutionally be applied to schools that engage in racial discrimination on the basis of sincerely held religious beliefs.” But the justices did not bite. In an 8–1 decision by conservative Chief Justice Warren Burger, the Court explained that “[o]n occasion this Court has found certain governmental interests so compelling as to allow even regulations prohibiting religiously based conduct.” Prohibiting race discrimination is one of these interests.

Racial discrimination is a "sincerely held religious belief" that is so important that it should be afforded Constitutional protection, according to these folks.  They lost that case.  But rest assured, they did NOT abandon their "belief."

"Christianity" has been used as a sword and shield by charlatans who are doing not God's work, but rather serving their own ends.  And in the process, the "brand" of that faith has become irreversibly tainted.  So, let's let it die.  It's in the process of a frenetic and gruesome suicide as we speak.  Let's get out of the way and allow it to finish the job.

Then, maybe we can clear the slate and try out the faith again.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Brisketexan

[F250 28,680]

A couple of books that can shed some light on this subject are White Protestant Nation and Christianity's Dangerous Idea. White Protestant Nation covers the evolution of the American Right throughout the 20th century and how it was shaped by faith, particularly the Protestant faith. The other book covers the chameleon nature of Protestantism due to a particular idea of Luther's, Sola Scriptua.

Imo, a reason why we see a marriage between the evangelicals and conservative movement is due to the nature of generic Protestantism that allows everyone to interpret scripture and form theology as it suits their needs. This is partially why we see culture heavily influencing evangelicals but not the Catholic church.

[George Morgan 18]

8 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

CBS re-ran a documentary on this yesterday.   I figure if George Morgan can spout his stuff here, then there is room for this too.   Christianity has always been an oppressive religion and this points out a lot of the how and whys when it comes to America.  The Moral Majority is just another step.

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/race-religion-resistance/

You have the tight to express your views, as I do.  But, I must disagree with your statement that "Christianity has always been an oppressive religion."  This remark is blatantly false.  The anti-slavery movement began in England by Christians, and spread to the United States and other nations.  William Wiberforce  led the movement.  He was a great Christian.  John Newton was a slave trader.  He became a Christian on board a ship carrying slaves, and completely changed his life.  He wrote the great Hymn,  "Amazing Grace."  Many Christians lost their lives in the Civil War to end the practice of slavery.  The early Christians were hunted down like dogs and killed.  They didn't fight back against their enemies.   All the disciples were martyred for their faith except John, who was boiled in oil and still lived to write the gospel of John.  Millions of Christians were murdered for their faith in Europe in the Middle Ages.  Many more are being killed today.

Jesus Christ was the greatest liberator in history.  He set the captives free from the penalty of sin and hell.  There is an agenda that exists to attack Christianity, and to mislead people.  For example,  If you study the life of Robert E. Lee after the war ended, you will find out that he help integrate the first church in Virginia  He saved Washington University from bankruptcy, and admitted students of all races who could not afford an education.  He helped young men into the ministry, and helped to quell the resentment the South felt toward the North after the war.  He was given a banquet in his honor in New York City because of his efforts to unite the nation.   Later, he established the first schools of Commerce and Journalism in the United States.  By the way, he freed his slaves before the war.  He inherited them from his wife's estate.  He was a hero in the Mexican War,  the Superintendent of West Point, and the according to General Winfield Scott, the Supreme Military Commander before the war said,  "Lee was the finest officer in the entire nation".  Lee's father, Lighthorse Harry Lee, was the commander of the calvary during the Revolutionary War, and one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence.  Lee was an exemplary Christian., and to this day, is held in the highest esteem by people around the nation.   But, people are like sheep.  They jump to conclusions with little knowledge, and blaspheme God and Christians because they are ignorant of the truth.

 

 

[Brisketexan 104,561]

People also ignore evidence contrary to the conclusion they want to reach.

See my post above, and the numerous quotes within. And I could have posted hundreds/thousands more.

Many (most?) Christians don't need to be "blasphemed" by any of us -- they're doing a damned fine job of it all by themselves.

7 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, but let's be damned clear -- arguments in favor of slavery, against the civil rights movement, against allowing interracial marriage....were REGULARLY faith-based.  Just some examples:

Oh, and if you were unsure about the connection between the modern fundagelical movement and racism....no need to be unsure:

Racial discrimination is a "sincerely held religious belief" that is so important that it should be afforded Constitutional protection, according to these folks.  They lost that case.  But rest assured, they did NOT abandon their "belief."

"Christianity" has been used as a sword and shield by charlatans who are doing not God's work, but rather serving their own ends.  And in the process, the "brand" of that faith has become irreversibly tainted.  So, let's let it die.  It's in the process of a frenetic and gruesome suicide as we speak.  Let's get out of the way and allow it to finish the job.

Then, maybe we can clear the slate and try out the faith again.

 

[HenryJames 65,887]

[bad motherfucker 315]

2 hours ago, George Morgan said:

You have the tight to express your views, as I do.  But, I must disagree with your statement that "Christianity has always been an oppressive religion."  This remark is blatantly false.  The anti-slavery movement began in England by Christians, and spread to the United States and other nations.  William Wiberforce  led the movement.  He was a great Christian.  John Newton was a slave trader.  He became a Christian on board a ship carrying slaves, and completely changed his life.  He wrote the great Hymn,  "Amazing Grace."  Many Christians lost their lives in the Civil War to end the practice of slavery.  The early Christians were hunted down like dogs and killed.  They didn't fight back against their enemies.   All the disciples were martyred for their faith except John, who was boiled in oil and still lived to write the gospel of John.  Millions of Christians were murdered for their faith in Europe in the Middle Ages.  Many more are being killed today.

Jesus Christ was the greatest liberator in history.  He set the captives free from the penalty of sin and hell.  There is an agenda that exists to attack Christianity, and to mislead people.  For example,  If you study the life of Robert E. Lee after the war ended, you will find out that he help integrate the first church in Virginia  He saved Washington University from bankruptcy, and admitted students of all races who could not afford an education.  He helped young men into the ministry, and helped to quell the resentment the South felt toward the North after the war.  He was given a banquet in his honor in New York City because of his efforts to unite the nation.   Later, he established the first schools of Commerce and Journalism in the United States.  By the way, he freed his slaves before the war.  He inherited them from his wife's estate.  He was a hero in the Mexican War,  the Superintendent of West Point, and the according to General Winfield Scott, the Supreme Military Commander before the war said,  "Lee was the finest officer in the entire nation".  Lee's father, Lighthorse Harry Lee, was the commander of the calvary during the Revolutionary War, and one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence.  Lee was an exemplary Christian., and to this day, is held in the highest esteem by people around the nation.   But, people are like sheep.  They jump to conclusions with little knowledge, and blaspheme God and Christians because they are ignorant of the truth.

 

 

Amazing!  Beautifully spoken.

[HenryJames 65,887]

2 minutes ago, bad motherfucker said:

Amazing!  Beautifully spoken.

I think he typed it.

[cactusflinthead 27,594]

Hey George are you ready to condemn the Jains yet? 

Zoroastrians? Buddhists? My buddy that believes in Krishna? 

Y'know what though. All religions have soiled their tenets and sinned. Not one of them is perfect. Can I point to good and bad in any religion? It's easy. 

You ready to condemn Fr. Jim? How about Pavlovitz? 

George, quit proselytizing. It's kinda working in reverse. 

[bad motherfucker 315]

32 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

I think he typed it.

How cute.

[Mapache 1,117]

 

Dr. Hollis Phelps, Assistant Professor of Interdisciplinary Studies at Mercer University in Macon Georgia explains why calling out White Evangelical hypocrisy is a failed exercise. He posits that one must play their game. 

The White Evangelical movement is less about religious doctrine, and more about power and their Bible have all the passages they need as reference points.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Mapache

[sidis 9,732]

15 hours ago, bad motherfucker said:

Amazing!  Beautifully spoken.

 

17 hours ago, George Morgan said:

You have the tight to express your views, as I do.  But, I must disagree with your statement that "Christianity has always been an oppressive religion."  This remark is blatantly false.  The anti-slavery movement began in England by Christians, and spread to the United States and other nations.  William Wiberforce  led the movement.  He was a great Christian.  John Newton was a slave trader.  He became a Christian on board a ship carrying slaves, and completely changed his life.  He wrote the great Hymn,  "Amazing Grace."  Many Christians lost their lives in the Civil War to end the practice of slavery.  The early Christians were hunted down like dogs and killed.  They didn't fight back against their enemies.   All the disciples were martyred for their faith except John, who was boiled in oil and still lived to write the gospel of John.  Millions of Christians were murdered for their faith in Europe in the Middle Ages.  Many more are being killed today.

Jesus Christ was the greatest liberator in history.  He set the captives free from the penalty of sin and hell.  There is an agenda that exists to attack Christianity, and to mislead people.  For example,  If you study the life of Robert E. Lee after the war ended, you will find out that he help integrate the first church in Virginia  He saved Washington University from bankruptcy, and admitted students of all races who could not afford an education.  He helped young men into the ministry, and helped to quell the resentment the South felt toward the North after the war.  He was given a banquet in his honor in New York City because of his efforts to unite the nation.   Later, he established the first schools of Commerce and Journalism in the United States.  By the way, he freed his slaves before the war.  He inherited them from his wife's estate.  He was a hero in the Mexican War,  the Superintendent of West Point, and the according to General Winfield Scott, the Supreme Military Commander before the war said,  "Lee was the finest officer in the entire nation".  Lee's father, Lighthorse Harry Lee, was the commander of the calvary during the Revolutionary War, and one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence.  Lee was an exemplary Christian., and to this day, is held in the highest esteem by people around the nation.   But, people are like sheep.  They jump to conclusions with little knowledge, and blaspheme God and Christians because they are ignorant of the truth.

 

 

[staboner 4,957]

people, religion

religion, people

i try to not bother anymore in mixing and matching to fit an agenda. people is people. 

i, for one, think organized religion is quite weird. but thats just how i was raised. if i was born in indonesia i'd be a muslim. it is what it is. 

all that matters is moving forward, engaging only with others moving forward, and trying your hardest to avoid negativity, hatred, anger, bigotry and all the bad shit we unfortunately has been programmed to be capable of

[Newdoc 3,429]

1 hour ago, staboner said:

people, religion

religion, people

i try to not bother anymore in mixing and matching to fit an agenda. people is people. 

i, for one, think organized religion is quite weird. but thats just how i was raised. if i was born in indonesia i'd be a muslim. it is what it is. 

all that matters is moving forward, engaging only with others moving forward, and trying your hardest to avoid negativity, hatred, anger, bigotry and all the bad shit we unfortunately has been programmed to be capable of

And using the shift key occasionally. 

[staboner 4,957]

don't judgement me you shifter

[Newdoc 3,429]

2 hours ago, staboner said:

don't judgement me you shifter

My bad, I forgot about this verse - 1 Joe 6:3 "And why beholdest thou the keyboard musings that is from thy brother's fingers, but considerest not the grammar from thine own tongue?"

Edited April 24, 2018 by Newdoc