and a special fuck you to charles koch

[elfenix 34171]

 

Quote

Charles Koch says he regrets fueling partisanship: 'Boy, did we screw up!' 'What a mess!'

https://www.businessinsider.com/charles-koch-partisanship-mistake-boy-did-we-screw-up-wsj-2020-11

[Gil Bang 25898]

harramph!

[Tom 2959]

Congrats.  You just pissed off Enchubben, and he's going to make us pay.  So much for the tolerant left.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

(Adds guillotine to shopping cart)

[UDontKnow 10439]

With all due respect, Charles Koch needs to go the way of his brother. Fucking hypocrite. These old business tycoons/industrial magnates/whatever are all the same. Even in old age, their greed knows no bounds and they always hinder progress. Fuck you Koch and you're anti-green agenda. How many more billions do you need?

[Bateshorn 9902]

No person is more single handedly responsible for the continued existence of climate denial.  Millions will unnecessarily die and suffer because of him. 

[Francisco 2.0 32338]

22 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

With all due respect, Charles Koch needs to go the way of his brother. Fucking hypocrite. These old business tycoons/industrial magnates/whatever are all the same. Even in old age, their greed knows no bounds and they always hinder progress. Fuck you Koch and you're anti-green agenda. How many more billions do you need?

 

Here's a live look at the Koch's in their prime:

 

 

[UpperWestside 6136]

You can look at the breadth of his life and see an empty 85 years. I cannot think of many things sadder for a human being than knowing that their life did not matter in a positive way. 

[futureman 22415]

12 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

No person is more single handedly responsible for the continued existence of climate denial.  Millions will unnecessarily die and suffer because of him. 

Lulz

[RDCanecutter 26274]

Is Koch a real billionaire, or just a worthless unbacked-paper-fiat-money "billionaire?"

They've been asking down at the meetings.

[Hefeweizen 5307]

21 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

Is Koch a real billionaire, or just a worthless unbacked-paper-fiat-money "billionaire?"

They've been asking down at the meetings.

Why not both?  I'm sure he can be worth billions and still not be cash flush.  He fucked around and is finding out now.  His legacy is to be remembered as a human turd, and his family name ruined.  Play stupid games, win prizes.

[Enchubben 5509]

13 hours ago, Tom said:

Congrats.  You just pissed off Enchubben, and he's going to make us pay.  So much for the tolerant left.  

Cmon man at least tag me!

I don’t give a flying fuck about the Koch brothers; I merely pointed out the absurdity in hoping they burn in hell because they are magically responsible for coronavirus deaths.

Apparently that is a hill some are willing to die on. 

[Tom 2959]

You'd be surprised at just how many hills I'd die on.

[UpperWestside 6136]

1 minute ago, Enchubben said:

Cmon man at least tag me!

I don’t give a flying fuck about the Koch brothers; I merely pointed out the absurdity in hoping they burn in hell because they are magically responsible for coronavirus deaths.

Apparently that is a hill some are willing to die on. 

Have you happened to have read anything that folks have pointed out to you about this subject? They have some blame to share. There are unintended consequences of our actions and their actions definitely contributed to the response we saw from Washington that did lead to many thousands upon thousands of people needlessly dying. The hill one is willing to die on is a topic you might want to do some introspection on. We all say things at times that come back to bite us or times where we are shown how our opinion was not optimal. This would be one of those times for you.

[UpperWestside 6136]

5 minutes ago, Tom said:

You'd be surprised at just how many hills I'd die on.

Me too. Mine are usually sports hills so they do not really much matter, but if I take a stance on a player or team I will not back off at times no matter how south my opinion is going. 

[Enchubben 5509]

1 minute ago, UpperWestside said:

Me too. Mine are usually sports hills so they do not really much matter, but if I take a stance on a player or team I will not back off at times no matter how south my opinion is going. 

1. Texas would have had Alabama like success over the last decade if colt had not gotten hurt in 2009.

[elfenix 34171]

19 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

Cmon man at least tag me!

I don’t give a flying fuck about the Koch brothers; I merely pointed out the absurdity in hoping they burn in hell because they are magically responsible for coronavirus deaths.

Apparently that is a hill some are willing to die on. 

is that what you think is going on?

[UpperWestside 6136]

1 minute ago, Enchubben said:

1. Texas would have had Alabama like success over the last decade if colt had not gotten hurt in 2009.

I try to completely forget that moment as best I can. Texas definitely does not wander the wilderness for the last ten years and at least would have been in contention for another title, or possibly two, if not for that debilitating injury at such a key moment.

[Enchubben 5509]

6 minutes ago, elfenix said:

is that what you think is going on?

It was in the other thread. Not here obviously 

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

13 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

No person is more single handedly responsible for the continued existence of climate denial.  Millions will unnecessarily die and suffer because of him. 

Do you think Exxon was funding the denial machine without Rex Tillerson's knowledge? In climate science, they use CO2 as the standard and convert the effects of other greenhouse gases in relative terms as if they were CO2 to come up with a composite score. Exxon is like the CO2 of global warming denial. 

Edit: Maybe Koch Industries is methane. 

Edited November 15, 2020 by WhatTheBuck

[hayden_horn 11360]

38 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

1. Texas would have had Alabama like success over the last decade if colt had not gotten hurt in 2009.

 

34 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

I try to completely forget that moment as best I can. Texas definitely does not wander the wilderness for the last ten years and at least would have been in contention for another title, or possibly two, if not for that debilitating injury at such a key moment.

absofuckinglutely. not only would we have won that game, but our ascendancy would have been the result. because of that injury, and how alabama beat us with a power running game, mack mindfucked himself into changing everything that had been working to try and emulate alabama, when that's not how to win in the big xii, and, frankly, not how to beat teams like alabama, which is why most sec teams trying to be alabama cannot beat them.

goddammit. 

/threadjack

[elfenix 34171]

crocodile tears, of course:

 

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Also: the Koch family backed Mike Pompeo when he was in Kansas (the single largest recipient of their campaign funding in 2010) and gave him the seed money for his business ventures. So nice to have a Secretary of State for your global empire.

[Gap03 3286]

17 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

(Adds guillotine to shopping cart)

Fucking this.  Unless this guy uses his propaganda machine to undo both Citizens United and climate change denial, he's on the guillotine short-list if revolution breaks out. As a starting point, this fucker should pen an amicus brief explaining exactly how exactly the Kochs have used dark money to fuck democracy and pointing out that Roberts is either a willing accomplice or disqualifyingly naive for his role on the USSC.  Until that day, he can fuck all the way off.

[fattyflattie 4636]

5 hours ago, Hefeweizen said:

He fucked around and is finding out now.

5 hours ago, Hefeweizen said:

Play stupid games, win prizes.

Well he may be a shell of a man, but he lived his life as a billionaire. Which has to be fucking awesome.  Plenty of people play stupid game, win stupid prizes, and can’t pay the mortgage.  He may regret some of the actions he helped (unlikely) but doubt he’s sad about the life he’s led.  

[TwiceHorn 31276]

In a lot of ways amassing great wealth and then dissipating it on politics is pretty disgusting, no matter which "side" you're on.

Find something better to do with your money.

Politics is important, yes, but in a personal involvement and consciousness way, not a blow a load of money that could have gone to innumerable good causes way.

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Well he may be a shell of a man, but he lived his life as a billionaire. Which has to be fucking awesome.  Plenty of people play stupid game, win stupid prizes, and can’t pay the mortgage.  He may regret some of the actions he helped (unlikely) but doubt he’s sad about the life he’s led.  

So basically what you are telling us is you are a fucking moron.

Good to know.

[WhatTheBuck 28711]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

In a lot of ways amassing great wealth and then dissipating it on politics is pretty disgusting, no matter which "side" you're on.

One side made it much easier to spend a lot more on politics -- the side that represents special interests and the ultra-wealthy. The other side has no choice but to join in the game. 

[quigley 1527]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Politics is important, yes, but in a personal involvement and consciousness way, not a blow a load of money that could have gone to innumerable good causes way.

I used to be of the same mind. We never gave to political causes pre-2017. Rather, we gave national/international orgs, local orgs, and even to some specific people via random acts. We give five figures, not Koch-like funds but something.

However, after we elevated the orange monster to the WH, the multiplier effects of political power became evident. With our current admin, I learned everyday that some uneducated idiot or an educated grifter could screw over thousand or even millions of people because they had been appointed by an uncaring politician.

So, we start giving to political causes. we wasted money on McGrath in KY (a little) and Harrison in SC (more). We've donated to FL voting rights restoration and Fair Fight in GA. We'll continue to do this. We'll donate to the Dems in WI also. I'm looking for progressive orgs doing consistent, grassroots voter organization.

Ideally, finding a group organizing in the Hispanic community in TX is high on the list so I'm open to suggestions.

[SimonBolivar 10930]

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

In a lot of ways amassing great wealth and then dissipating it on politics is pretty disgusting, no matter which "side" you're on.

Find something better to do with your money.

Politics is important, yes, but in a personal involvement and consciousness way, not a blow a load of money that could have gone to innumerable good causes way.

To be fair,  Nova tells me that he donates to them every episode.

[TwiceHorn 31276]

2 hours ago, quigley said:

I used to be of the same mind. We never gave to political causes pre-2017. Rather, we gave national/international orgs, local orgs, and even to some specific people via random acts. We give five figures, not Koch-like funds but something.

However, after we elevated the orange monster to the WH, the multiplier effects of political power became evident. With our current admin, I learned everyday that some uneducated idiot or an educated grifter could screw over thousand or even millions of people because they had been appointed by an uncaring politician.

So, we start giving to political causes. we wasted money on McGrath in KY (a little) and Harrison in SC (more). We've donated to FL voting rights restoration and Fair Fight in GA. We'll continue to do this. We'll donate to the Dems in WI also. I'm looking for progressive orgs doing consistent, grassroots voter organization.

Ideally, finding a group organizing in the Hispanic community in TX is high on the list so I'm open to suggestions.

I'm not criticizing political contributions as limited by federal election law for individuals.  I consider that personal involvement.

But dropping astronomical sums on PAC contributions and other "dark money" is just not a really humane thing to do, even if you really believe in your political causes.

[fattyflattie 4636]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

In a lot of ways amassing great wealth and then dissipating it on politics is pretty disgusting, no matter which "side" you're on.

Remember the thread on this very site celebrating David Koch’s death?  I’m sure there will be one for Soros. Well,I’ll probably get to read about how his donations were...different.  Good political puppeteering. 

[Cacti 191]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Politics is important, yes, but in a personal involvement and consciousness way, not a blow a load of money that could have gone to innumerable good causes way.

The Koch brothers donated more than 1.5 billion dollars to non-political, “good causes.” I won’t list the philanthropic organizations which the brothers supported but you can look it up, if you’re interested.

As fierce, longtime Koch brother critic, Lawrence O’Donnell, said: "You can be outraged by what the Koch brothers do with their money in politics and you can appreciate what they contribute to hospital and medical research and you can do that at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

[quigley 1527]

8 minutes ago, Cacti said:

As fierce, longtime Koch brother critic, Lawrence O’Donnell, said: "You can be outraged by what the Koch brothers do with their money in politics and you can appreciate what they contribute to hospital and medical research and you can do that at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

I view the Kochs and the Sackers (Purdue pharma, makers of oxycontin) in the same light:

They both used donations to palatable causes (research, arts, NPR) to buy them a place in polite society.

All the while, their core businesses were destroying society.

[TwiceHorn 31276]

24 minutes ago, quigley said:

I view the Kochs and the Sackers (Purdue pharma, makers of oxycontin) in the same light:

They both used donations to palatable causes (research, arts, NPR) to buy them a place in polite society.

All the while, their core businesses were destroying society.

Ehhh, the Sacklers, a couple in particular, were a bit more malignant in the operation of their business.

 

[UDontKnow 10439]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Ehhh, the Sacklers, a couple in particular, were a bit more malignant in the operation of their business.

 

Maybe, but only with the benefit of hindsight. One was way more obvious (Sacklers) than the other (Koch Brothers) to laymen (myself included). 

[quigley 1527]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Ehhh, the Sacklers, a couple in particular, were a bit more malignant in the operation of their business.

I know the Sackers story very well. I'm in the industry and raise the alarm in the 1990s when their deception was starting. That said, the Kochs have purposely muddy the waters to allow the continuation of the fossil fuel industry for 40 years.

It's a matter of degrees, but the playbook of the two groups is the same, and the outocomes are the same.

[UDontKnow 10439]

1 minute ago, quigley said:

I know the Sackers story very well. I'm in the industry and raise the alarm in the 1990s when their deception was starting. That said, the Kochs have purposely muddy the waters to allow the continuation of the fossil fuel industry for 40 years.

It's a matter of degrees, but the playbook of the two groups is the same, and the outocomes are the same.

Care to share more about the Sacklers since you're intimately familiar with Big Pharma? As a physician, I have a love/hate relationship with them (especially Otsuka because of Abilify).

[TwiceHorn 31276]

38 minutes ago, quigley said:

I know the Sackers story very well. I'm in the industry and raise the alarm in the 1990s when their deception was starting. That said, the Kochs have purposely muddy the waters to allow the continuation of the fossil fuel industry for 40 years.

It's a matter of degrees, but the playbook of the two groups is the same, and the outocomes are the same.

The petrochemical industry would have proceeded largely as it has with or without Koch Industries.  Kill them off somehow and there are a dozen more to take their place.  They are unique only because they are privately held, placing their wealth and activities in the hands of the brothers rather than a series of CEOs and BoDs, as with the rest of big oil.

What Richard Sackler did at Purdue Pharma is much more morally culpable.

There's a reason Purdue Pharma is defunct and has been sued to Bolivia and the petrochemical industry continues to exist largely unimpeded.

Perhaps a comparison of the petrochemical industry broadly to pharma broadly might be more apt in terms of doing diffuse but probably great harm in the aggregate.

Edited November 16, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[quigley 1527]

23 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

Care to share more about the Sacklers since you're intimately familiar with Big Pharma? As a physician, I have a love/hate relationship with them (especially Otsuka because of Abilify).

Perdue and other pharma created the "pain is a vital sign" marketing and successfully pitched it the anesthesia societies (1995). This hit training programs for nurses and doctors around 2000. Effectiveness of pain control was a part of the HCAHPS (hospital rating survey giving to patients that was designed--poorly designed--in the 1980s). HCAHPS users weren't obligated to use any specific questions for assessment (or reporting if I recall) and didn't focus on pain to that point.

However, by the early 2000s, you had training programs pushing it, an assessment tool, and a drug that, despite all logic and experience, was supposedly safe to treat pain.

If you were practicing prior to the late 1990s, you'd have seen a huge shift in focus to pain relief. Some of this has been good, but on balance, it's been a negative for society. And Perdue and their ilk share a large portion of the blame.

[quigley 1527]

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Perhaps a comparison of the petrochemical industry broadly to pharma broadly might be more apt in terms of doing diffuse but probably great harm in the aggregate.

The Sackers and Kochs both used disinformation to promote their businesses. Because Exxon also denies climate change doesn't absolve Charles Koch of his knowing, greedy actions.

In addition, the Kochs AstroTurf-ing the Tea Party and propping up Citizens United have weakened the political system for decades.

I don't care if Chuck likes Click and Clack.

[UDontKnow 10439]

8 minutes ago, quigley said:

Perdue and other pharma created the "pain is a vital sign" marketing and successfully pitched it the anesthesia societies (1995). This hit training programs for nurses and doctors around 2000. Effectiveness of pain control was a part of the HCAHPS (hospital rating survey giving to patients that was designed--poorly designed--in the 1980s). HCAHPS users weren't obligated to use any specific questions for assessment (or reporting if I recall) and didn't focus on pain to that point.

However, by the early 2000s, you had training programs pushing it, an assessment tool, and a drug that, despite all logic and experience, was supposedly safe to treat pain.

If you were practicing prior to the late 1990s, you'd have seen a huge shift in focus to pain relief. Some of this has been good, but on balance, it's been a negative for society. And Perdue and their ilk share a large portion of the blame.

All of this happened in my youth but IIRC, the slogan was "pain is the fifth vital sign", although I might be wrong about that. I do recall that a big push towards pain came from Congress in the late 90s, but I had no idea the anesthesiology professional societies played a huge role in it even earlier. However, that makes great sense intuitively considering the rise of Pain Medicine fellowships and most of those fellowship trained physicians tend to be anesthesiologists. I am aware that there were numerous physicians who sold their souls and backed Big Pharma saying that these new opioids had absolutely no addictive potential (most of these physicians probably forgot their pharmacology and did not care to question Purdue and other companies of the mechanism of action of these novel opioid prescriptions). That was the greatest sin of all IMO, but I am biased in my views.

[TwiceHorn 31276]

5 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

All of this happened in my youth but IIRC, the slogan was "pain is the fifth vital sign", although I might be wrong about that. I do recall that a big push towards pain came from Congress in the late 90s, but I had no idea the anesthesiology professional societies played a huge role in it even earlier. However, that makes great sense intuitively considering the rise of Pain Medicine fellowships and most of those fellowship trained physicians tend to be anesthesiologists. I am aware that there were numerous physicians who sold their souls and backed Big Pharma saying that these new opioids had absolutely no addictive potential (most of these physicians probably forgot their pharmacology and did not care to question Purdue and other companies of the mechanism of action of these novel opioid prescriptions). That was the greatest sin of all IMO, but I am biased in my views.

Lots of surly commentary and some good links in that thread.

Edited November 16, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31276]

6 minutes ago, quigley said:

The Sackers and Kochs both used disinformation to promote their businesses. Because Exxon also denies climate change doesn't absolve Charles Koch of his knowing, greedy actions.

In addition, the Kochs AstroTurf-ing the Tea Party and propping up Citizens United have weakened the political system for decades.

I don't care if Chuck likes Click and Clack.

I'm not absolving the Koch brothers of anything.  But as far as harm wrought by the petrochemical industry, they don't stand out at all.

Within pharma, Richard Sackler and Purdue Pharma stand out like a sore thumb, even in an industry with highly questionable marketing practices.

[UDontKnow 10439]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

 

FFS, one of the Sackler brothers is named Mortimer! You can't make this shit up!

[Blotto 23434]

Fuck this clown and his  "I'm really sorry, but I'm still gonna fund the same shitty party I  just got through apologizing for 3 seconds ago" routine. 

Quote

Billionaire megadonor Charles Koch is doubling down on saying he "screwed up" by fueling partisanship.

In a new interview with Axios, Koch expanded on the issues with partisanship that he detailed in his new book. He told interviewer Mike Allen about when he realized his mistake.

"Some of the politicians that we had helped get elected, I would see them on TV, and they would be talking about policies that were antithetical — against immigration, against criminal justice reform, against a more peaceful foreign policy," Koch said. "I was horrified."

Koch has poured millions into the GOP and conservative movements; he and his late brother David are credited with helping to create and shape the modern Tea Party. His $44.9 billion fortune comes from Koch Industries, the refinery business Koch inherited from his father.

Koch said he would vet (and support) politicians who seemed to be "champions" of his major issues, and then find them doing the "opposite."

Koch did not immediately respond to Insider's request for comment.

Koch is now looking to uplift policies that help "empower" people, specifically citing foreign policy, immigration policy, and criminal justice reform.

In an email to Douglas Belkin of the Wall Street Journal, Koch congratulated President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris on their victory. He said he looks forward to "finding ways to work with them to break down the barriers holding people back."

However, as Axios reports, Koch's superPAC, Americans for Prosperity Action, is still funneling a sizeable sum into Georgia's January 5 runoff.

Brian Hooks, the coauthor of Koch's book and CEO of Stand Together, Koch's philanthropic endeavor, said they continued to support Georgia's Republican Sen. David Perdue, who could be the deciding vote keeping the senate in Republican control after the runoff election scheduled for early January. Hooks said he and Koch think Perdue "can actually make a difference if he's returned to the Senate."

Perdue was a co-sponsor of the 2017 RAISE Act, which would've curbed legal immigration into the US; Perdue has also previously downplayed the impact of climate change.

Two crossed lines that form an 'X'. It indicates a way to close an interaction, or dismiss a notification.

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19151]

31 minutes ago, Blotto said:

He said he looks forward to "finding ways to work with them to break down the barriers holding people back."

Who elected this cunt to any office?

[SydneyCarton 47882]

24 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Who elected this cunt to any office?

Money did. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by SydneyCarton

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Anyone who votes Perdue is following the conman's "you have to buy it to see it work" game and is a fool.

I don't give a damn if any Koch says he/she is repentant of the damage wrought on lives or the earth or even what drop in the bucket charitable donation has been given to offset taxes or assuage guilt. It's a family philosophy of saying whatever keeps them behind the curtain, moving the levers of power to their advantage, and keeping the guillotine from showing up in front of their home. Chase Koch, Charles' son, is the overseer of Koch Disruptive Technologies and it's not like he is showing any type of restraint. The CEO of that arm of Koch Industries, Eli Groner, has been working with countries all over the globe and here is a direct quote: "the beauty of the tech economy is that the government doesn't interfere in it."

So, a moth saying to a chameleon--"oh, I see you've changed colors. That must mean you won't eat me," has spoken its last words.

[Anastasis 23395]

On 11/15/2020 at 11:55 AM, hayden_horn said:

goddammit. 

Fuck all of you.  Happy Thanksgiving from my PTSD.