Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery

[bolverk 29,672]

The following is from The Upshot, my favorite section of the NYTimes, which primarily concerns itself with analyzing data and often has lots of cool infographics. This piece provides a decent description in answering the question: "Who gets an abortion?" I'm leaving this here for informational purposes to perhaps dispel some stereotypes and/or help clarify whom is most impacted.

I certainly learned a thing or two.

 

THE TYPICAL PATIENT ...
Is Already a Mother.
Is in Her Late 20s.
Attended Some College.
Has a Low Income.
Is Unmarried.
Is in Her First 6 Weeks of Pregnancy.
Is Having Her First Abortion.

Spoiler

Who Gets Abortions in America?

The portrait of abortion in the United States has changed with society. Today, abortions among teenagers are far less frequent, and abortion patients are most likely to already be mothers. Although there’s a lot of debate over gestational cutoffs, nearly half of abortions happen in the first six weeks of pregnancy, and nearly all in the first trimester.

The typical patient, in addition to having children, is poor; is unmarried and in her late 20s; has some college education; and is very early in pregnancy. But in the reproductive lives of women (and transgender and nonbinary people who can become pregnant) across America, abortion is not uncommon. The latest estimate, from the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health research group that supports abortion rights, found that 25 percent of women will have an abortion by the end of their childbearing years.

“There isn’t one monolith demographic who get abortions,” said Ushma Upadhyay of the Bixby Center for Global Reproductive Health at the University of California, San Francisco. “The same people who become pregnant and give birth are the same people who have abortions at different points in their lives.”

As heated as the issue has become in recent years, the abortion rate, calculated among women ages 15 to 44, has been falling. Americans are having half as many abortions as 30 years ago. Researchers say a variety of factors — including better contraceptive use and less sex among teenagers — is leading to fewer unintended pregnancies.

The data offers a broad outline of abortion in the United States today — and who may be most affected if Roe v. Wade is diminished or overturned by the Supreme Court.

Six in 10 women who have abortions are already mothers, and half of them have two or more children, according to 2019 data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. “One of the main reasons people report wanting to have an abortion is so they can be a better parent to the kids they already have,” Professor Upadhyay said.

Much of the political debate about abortion in America focuses on abortions performed late in pregnancy, but the overwhelming majority of them occur in the first trimester. Forty-three percent of all abortions occur in the first six weeks of pregnancy, and 94 percent in the first 13 weeks.

In 1973, the Roe decision provided a constitutional right to abortion before fetal viability, around 23 weeks. If it’s overturned, at least 22 states are likely to ban abortions altogether, or much earlier in pregnancy.

The Mississippi law before the Supreme Court concerns a ban on abortions after 15 weeks. In the 47 states counted, about 21,500 women a year, accounting for 4 percent of American abortions, had the procedure after that time. The women who receive later abortions are more likely to be poor or young or to have serious health complications.

During oral arguments on the Mississippi case, Chief Justice John Roberts seemed interested in changing the legal standard to protect some abortion rights but allow a limit like 15 weeks. No other justice appeared interested in the solution, and lawyers on both sides declined to suggest how a compromise could work legally.

A majority of abortion patients are in their 20s. Just 9 percent are under 20, and around a third are over 30. Teenagers used to make up a higher share, but there has been a sharp decline in teen pregnancy in the United States, starting in 1991, and a corresponding drop in abortions among teenagers. Today, American women of all demographics are having children later in life.

Increasingly, women say they are delaying having children until they can finish school, establish a career and support themselves. The share of women attending college is climbing rapidly. For women who do not feel they have many educational or career opportunities, early parenthood is often embraced as a primary route to fulfillment, social science research has found.

About half of women who had an abortion in 2014 were below the poverty line, with another quarter very close to poverty. Guttmacher surveys show low-income women have been a growing share of abortion patients in recent decades. Several smaller studies of abortion patients have shown similar results. Researchers say this shift reflects improved access to effective contraception among higher-earning women, and a recognition of the growing costs of raising children among poorer women. It may also reflect the growing presence of charities that help poor women pay for abortions in states where public programs don’t.

“It’s people who don’t have access to health care, access to contraception, who, when facing an unintended pregnancy, don’t have the resources to have another child,” said Rachel Jones, a principal research scientist at Guttmacher.

Six in 10 women who have an abortion are having one for the first time. Another quarter have had one previous abortion. Less than a fifth have had two or more. “It’s simply not the case that abortion is something large numbers of people turn to as a form of birth control,” said Caitlin Knowles Myers, an economist at Middlebury who studies reproductive health.

Nearly half of those who have abortions are single. A third are living with a partner, and 14 percent are married. Cohabiting but unmarried people are overrepresented in abortion numbers, while married people are underrepresented, based on their share of the population. One of the groups with the largest declines in unintended pregnancies and in birth rate in recent years are unmarried mothers, according to data analysis by Professor Myers.

Women seeking abortions early in their pregnancies have two options: a surgical abortion or a medical one, in which they can take pills that cause a miscarriage.

Medical abortions are a growing share. In 2019, about 44 percent of women who sought abortions in clinics before 10 weeks of pregnancy chose pills. (The share of women who use medication abortion is probably higher, because the C.D.C. data excludes California, which has a higher share of medication abortions than other states.) The Food and Drug Administration is considering regulatory changes that would make it easier for more doctors to prescribe the pills. If that happens, they may become an even larger share of the total.

Abortions late in pregnancy or among women with serious medical complications sometimes involve other types of surgery. These procedures represent much less than one percent of all abortions.

The states with the highest share of women who obtained abortions in 2019 were Democratic-leaning. That may reflect differences in abortion access, and the cultural acceptance of abortion in some regions. In some Republican-leaning states, abortion is already inaccessible to much of the population. In Missouri, Mississippi, North Dakota and South Dakota, there is only one clinic per state, and for some people it’s not feasible to travel far to reach one.

“The same states that restrict access to abortion also have restrictions or increased barriers to contraception,” said Professor Upadhyay.

Still, the recent declines in the abortion rate have been larger in states with widespread abortion access than in those that have added restrictions, where abortions were more likely to have increased, Ms. Jones said. The declines in Democratic states may be in part because of increased access to contraception and other health care, leading to fewer unplanned pregnancies, she noted.

Around 33 percent of abortions are performed in the 22 states that would be likely to ban abortion if Roe were overturned. There would be fewer abortions in those states post-Roe. But some of those women would travel out of state, and some would end their pregnancies using extralegal means.

 

[Guest Lobo]

That was very eye-opening, thanks for posting.  Surprised at a few states on that map.  I'm guessing a big part of the reason Florida leads the way in abortions is rape/incest.  I'm not joking. 

[wildcat09 29,354]

Whenever anyone starts questioning whether they had Ana all wrong when they thought he was a troll because he’s sounding reasonable about something else in the future, remember this page.

[Anastasis 23,469]

9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Whenever anyone starts questioning whether they had Ana all wrong when they thought he was a troll because he’s sounding reasonable about something else in the future, remember this page.

Sir, please, this is the demagoguery thread.

 

Seems that in the current context where we are asked to critically think about how systemic racism is embedded in the founding of the institutions around us, and how that impacts meaningfully policy and outcomes such as health inequities today, the eugenic basis behind the founding of planned parenthood might be relevant.  But maybe they are exempt from the conversation for some reason. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Anastasis

[Mole 4,333]

Those two age range charts are breaking my brain. I get it now, but I stared at them for a while to make sense of them.

[jimmyjazz 45,951]

15 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Seems that in the current context where we are asked to critically think about how systemic racism is embedded in the founding of the institutions around us, and how that impacts meaningfully policy and outcomes such as health inequities today, the eugenic basis behind the founding of planned parenthood might be relevant.  

It might be "relevant" in the same sense as the fact that many early members of the KKK were Democrats is "relevant".  It's not reflective of those groups' perspectives today.  Indeed, Planned Parenthood is quite clear in their condemnation of Margaret Sanger's support of ableist and white supremacist viewpoints.

[Guest Lobo]

Does any real man of faith give fuck one about Margaret Sanger's politics when you go in with your wife, for what you hope and pray will be a safe, clean, sympathetic D&C procedure?

Edited December 14, 2021 by Lobo

[Anastasis 23,469]

23 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It might be "relevant" in the same sense as the fact that many early members of the KKK were Democrats is "relevant".  It's not reflective of those groups' perspectives today.  Indeed, Planned Parenthood is quite clear in their condemnation of Margaret Sanger's support of ableist and white supremacist viewpoints.

If we are talking about the criminal justice industry, the disproportionate impact of incarceration on people of color is clearly evidence of systemic racism embedded in how that industry functions.

If we are talking about the abortion industry, the disproportionate impact of abortion on people of color is clearly evidence of...?

 

At an absolute minimum, the disproportionate impact on people of color highlights systemic issues along lines of what the Yeti points out, and that those underlying issues should be addressed directly.  The solution isn't more abortions in a system that perpetuates and deepens those inequities while we hand wave the data, the solution is addressing the underlying dysfunction in the system.  

Edited December 14, 2021 by Anastasis

[Bama Chick 28,596]

MEN SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT ABORTION CHALLENGE

God

[wildcat09 29,354]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

If we are talking about the criminal justice industry, the disproportionate impact of incarceration on people of color is clearly evidence of systemic racism embedded in how that industry functions.

If we are talking about the abortion industry, the disproportionate impact of abortion on people of color is clearly evidence of...?

 

At an absolute minimum, the disproportionate impact on people of color highlights systemic issues along lines of what the Yeti points out, and that those underlying issues should be addressed directly.  The solution isn't more abortions in a system that perpetuates and deepens those inequities while we hand wave the data, the solution is addressing the underlying dysfunction in the system.  

Lack of sexual education and a lack of access to contraception for black and brown communities. You know that not a single one of us doesn't support addressing those and would just prefer more abortions instead. You're arguing with a straw man because you're a troll. Fuck off.

[jimmyjazz 45,951]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

If we are talking about the criminal justice industry, the disproportionate impact of incarceration on people of color is clearly evidence of systemic racism embedded in how that industry functions.

If we are talking about the abortion industry, the disproportionate impact of abortion on people of color is clearly evidence of...?

 

At an absolute minimum, the disproportionate impact on people of color highlights systemic issues along lines of what the Yeti points out, and that those underlying issues should be addressed directly.  The solution isn't more abortions in a system that perpetuates and deepens those inequities while we hand wave the data, the solution is addressing the underlying dysfunction in the system.  

You spoke about eugenics.  Eugenics has jack shit to do with this topic in 2021.

[hobbes2702 13,033]

12 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Eugenicists gonna eugenics.   

Cringe

[elfenix 34,240]

arguing with the air using troll arguments about how abortion is racist is peak Resurrection.  you keep doing you, buddy.

[LTbear 4,169]

8 hours ago, Anastasis said:

If we are talking about the criminal justice industry, the disproportionate impact of incarceration on people of color is clearly evidence of systemic racism embedded in how that industry functions.

If we are talking about the abortion industry, the disproportionate impact of abortion on people of color is clearly evidence of...?

 

At an absolute minimum, the disproportionate impact on people of color highlights systemic issues along lines of what the Yeti points out, and that those underlying issues should be addressed directly.  The solution isn't more abortions in a system that perpetuates and deepens those inequities while we hand wave the data, the solution is addressing the underlying dysfunction in the system.  

You're reading it backwards. If you want to claim something about abortion is racist, it's that a lack of abortion options would be racist, because it is indeed women of color who need to seek them out more often, which is itself due largely to lack of access to healthcare during a pregnancy and lack of sufficient economic standing to care for a child. Thus a lack of access to abortion would disproportionately harm black women, which would be... racist. 

[safe sex 11,726]

Ana, don't respond anymore and please just shut the fuck up about abortion. Please.

Edited December 15, 2021 by trauma babe

[Neonmoon 38,129]

19 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Eugenicists gonna eugenics.   

[Serak The Preparer 3,431]

48 minutes ago, LTbear said:

You're reading it backwards. If you want to claim something about abortion is racist, it's that a lack of abortion options would be racist, because it is indeed women of color who need to seek them out more often, which is itself due largely to lack of access to healthcare during a pregnancy and lack of sufficient economic standing to care for a child. Thus a lack of access to abortion would disproportionately harm black women, which would be... racist. 

No you don't get it. He's totally thinking critically think about how systemic racism is embedded in the founding of the institutions around us.

[TwiceHorn 31,470]

10 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

It might be "relevant" in the same sense as the fact that many early members of the KKK were Democrats is "relevant".  It's not reflective of those groups' perspectives today.  Indeed, Planned Parenthood is quite clear in their condemnation of Margaret Sanger's support of ableist and white supremacist viewpoints.

Not to mention that PP has never required or coerced or legislated someone into getting an abortion.

Now, systemic and institutional racism may very well and probably does account for the relatively high percentage of black women seeking and receiving abortions.

Edited December 15, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Willfully Horn 8,017]

Nvmd

Edited December 15, 2021 by Willfully Horn

[Anastasis 23,469]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Not to mention that PP has never required or coerced or legislated someone into getting an abortion.

Perhaps an area where we can find some common ground on the topic is legislation to address in some meaningful way intimate partner violence and the correlation with coercion to seek an abortion? The statistical relationship gets pretty strong esp in that 3+ abortion segment that I have focused on previously. There is also a correlation between IPV and preventing abortion seeking, so seems like something #bothsides could coalesce around. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Anastasis

[Guest Lobo]

^

I would agree with that idea of common ground.  There certainly is a disturbingly large subset of those abortion statistics that are a result of abuse/coercion.  

However, I have been assured by the top, top men in the Texas State Government that rape, incest, and domestic violence will be ended alongside this new 6-week abortion ban, so no need to keep those abortion options open.  It appears as if your notion of bipartisanship on these topics has already been achieved.  And to that, I say Bravo! 

[wildcat09 29,354]

Troll: "You're all racist eugenicists!"

Everyone else: "Fuck you, troll"

Troll: "Why can't we find some reasonable common ground? I think you guys should stop being crazy with your opposition to Longhorn victories and come around to my view that it's actually good when the Longhorns win games!" 

[Anastasis 23,469]

27 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Troll: "You're all racist eugenicists!"

I don't think that pointing out the racist eugenic principles that underlay the founding of Planned Parenthood is anything at all like saying "You're all racist eugenicists!". 

[Brian Fantana 6,687]

Yes, we all know that PP is only about abortions for all, many abortions, the best abortions!

[DDD Dad 14,339]

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

^
I would agree with that idea of common ground.  There certainly is a disturbingly large subset of those abortion statistics that are a result of abuse/coercion.  
However, I have been assured by the top, top men in the Texas State Government that rape, incest, and domestic violence will be ended alongside this new 6-week abortion ban, so no need to keep those abortion options open.  It appears as if your notion of bipartisanship on these topics has already been achieved.  And to that, I say Bravo! 

Don’t say it twice more or he’ll start posting diploma pics in here.

Edited December 15, 2021 by DDD Dad

[safe sex 11,726]

Jfc, Ana. You literally said "eugenicists gonna eugenics" in response to a discussion of modern PP and not the historical underpinnings. Those underpinnings, again, are condemned by PP. 

Stop.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,870]

Ana about this close to getting ignored. Not really sure why I haven't done it sooner. He adds nothing to my experience here and only serves to obfuscate truth. Kinda done with it, really.

[wildcat09 29,354]

Ana would prefer to engage in silly hypothetical arguments that nobody believes to distract from the fact that his political allies passed a law modeled after the Fugitive Slave Act that authorized a vigilante bounty system to functionally ban pretty much all abortions in Texas.

[safe sex 11,726]

But it's low key fine because abortion is "barbaric."

The biggest of eye rolls

[Ten Bears 2,481]

48 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Ana about this close to getting ignored. Not really sure why I haven't done it sooner. He adds nothing to my experience here and only serves to obfuscate truth. Kinda done with it, really.

It won't do any good with all of the other posters quoting him.

[High Plains Drifter 11,049]

On 12/14/2021 at 10:51 PM, Anastasis said:

Perhaps an area where we can find some common ground on the topic is legislation to address in some meaningful way intimate partner violence and the correlation with coercion to seek an abortion? The statistical relationship gets pretty strong esp in that 3+ abortion segment that I have focused on previously. There is also a correlation between IPV and preventing abortion seeking, so seems like something #bothsides could coalesce around. 

 

oh yeah, common ground, good idea.

 

 

On 12/13/2021 at 11:48 PM, Anastasis said:

Eugenicists gonna eugenics.   

 

oh, yeah, nevermind. Congrats, you have joined the likes of Crispy on ignore.

 

[Bama Chick 28,596]

First time I’ve ever stanned the FDA.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,870]

2 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

First time I’ve ever stanned the FDA.
 

awesome.

[DDD Dad 14,339]

28 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

awesome.

For at least the next couple of years anyway.

 

[Smax 3,800]

On 12/14/2021 at 8:05 AM, Anastasis said:

If we are talking about the criminal justice industry, the disproportionate impact of incarceration on people of color is clearly evidence of systemic racism embedded in how that industry functions.

If we are talking about the abortion industry, the disproportionate impact of abortion on people of color is clearly evidence of...?

 

At an absolute minimum, the disproportionate impact on people of color highlights systemic issues along lines of what the Yeti points out, and that those underlying issues should be addressed directly.  The solution isn't more abortions in a system that perpetuates and deepens those inequities while we hand wave the data, the solution is addressing the underlying dysfunction in the system.  

 

 

Cant win with people like you

Abortion is evil murder, so you want to force poor uneducated minorities ( who for once in the lives are actually tying to make the correct educated decision) to have children they can not afford and when they end up on government aide, welfare food stamps wic you'll bitch and moan about them being lazy freeloaders who should get up off their ass and get a job

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,870]

3 minutes ago, Smax said:

 

 

Cant win with people like you

Abortion is evil murder, so you want to force poor uneducated minorities ( who for once in the lives are actually tying to make the correct educated decision) to have children they can not afford and when they end up on government aide, welfare food stamps wic you'll bitch and moan about them being lazy freeloaders who should get up off their ass and get a job

who got a hold of Smax' account?

[jimmyjazz 45,951]

7 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

who got a hold of Smax' account?

I didn't get past the avatar.

[elfenix 34,240]

hers.com gonna start ads during lifetime movies about getting your *discreetly packaged* pills without that embarrassing in-person office visit

 

i'm assuming the advertising of such pills and mailing of them into texas would be sufficient basis for state long arm jurisdiction for suit under SB8. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by elfenix

[Smax 3,800]

1 hour ago, elfenix said:

hers.com gonna start ads during lifetime movies about getting your *discreetly packaged* pills without that embarrassing in-person office visit

 

i'm assuming the advertising of such pills and mailing of them into texas would be sufficient basis for state long arm jurisdiction for suit under SB8. 

 

You're probably right, the small government no overreach rulers of Texas will no doubt try something.... 

As far as I can tell, plan B follows the law as its only effective if taken within 72 hours of intercourse, then again this is Texas gop we're talking about so wtf knows what they'll try and do

 

[Anastasis 23,469]

5 hours ago, Smax said:

Cant win with people like you

Abortion is evil murder, so you want to force poor uneducated minorities ( who for once in the lives are actually tying to make the correct educated decision) to have children they can not afford and when they end up on government aide, welfare food stamps wic you'll bitch and moan about them being lazy freeloaders who should get up off their ass and get a job

I would be thrilled to live in a society that prioritized social support for disadvantaged mothers over F22s and cruise missiles.

[elfenix 34,240]

we can't afford a $1.75T human capital bill that maybe sorta tries to pay for itself because we're too busy passing $8.00T defense bills that don't even attempt to pay for themselves. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26,460]

6 hours ago, elfenix said:

we can't afford a $1.75T human capital bill that maybe sorta tries to pay for itself because we're too busy passing $8.00T defense bills that don't even attempt to pay for themselves. 

 

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2,674]

17 hours ago, Smax said:

 

You're probably right, the small government no overreach rulers of Texas will no doubt try something.... 

As far as I can tell, plan B follows the law as its only effective if taken within 72 hours of intercourse, then again this is Texas gop we're talking about so wtf knows what they'll try and do

 

I believe the drug in question is RU-486, the actual abortion pill, rather than Plan B.  So yes, Huffines and his lapdog Abbott will probably get on this right away.

[Willfully Horn 8,017]

RU-486 is the worst name ever for any product.

 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

2 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

RU-486 is the worst name ever for any product.

 

I think that’s the name of the robot that brought you cocaine in robocop 

[Anastasis 23,469]

7 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

RU-486 is the worst name ever for any product.

100% coincidence. 

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2,674]

I had never thought about it before but

R U 4 86?

Yes please, bring it on

[elfenix 34,240]

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,870]

12 hours ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

I had never thought about it before but

R U 4 86?

Yes please, bring it on

[crash_davis 23,113]