Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery

[Serak The Preparer 3431]

4 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

It's telling that Ana ignores all the posts with stories about women almost dying because of policies he supports.

He hasn't ignored them per se, it's just that he repeats the same TexAgs bullet points of "there are exemptions, hospitals should go ahead and perform the procedure", blaming the provider. Which of course ignores the fact that, at best, this was an easily foreseeable outcome when there is no completely objective measure for "medically necessary" so of course hospitals would advise their doctors to not perform actions which could place them in legal jeopardy. In reality, it is working as intended as the writers of the bill are just shitty people, not all stupid.

[Anastasis 23474]

4 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

It's telling that Ana ignores all the posts with stories about women almost dying because of policies he supports.

Very high lie to word count density in this post.  Congrats. 

[dieucla98 2942]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Very high lie to word count density in this post.  Congrats. 

Do you bother doing the same KPI with your own posts? Maybe modify it to "disingenuous dildo to word count density" in your case.

[atomheartbevo 89681]

So is Texas or Florida going to press criminal charges against the military, like their legislators and AGs said they would against civilian companies?

 

[DigglerontheHoof 21202]

Military's all woke and shit, they're not tanning their bungholes enough. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585]

4 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

Their literal response to that has been "we all gotta go sometime."  there's no arguing with insanity.

Aka Dan Patrick's pandemic response strategy. 

[Sawbonz 27565]

10 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

 

Take a look at what is removed as the result of a typical, 10 week, abortion. Not even developed enough to be an embryo.

Um there is literally a scientifically defined embryonic stage. 10 weeks of gestation is the last week of the embryonic stage

[Willfully Horn 8017]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

Um there is literally a scientifically defined embryonic stage. 10 weeks of gestation is the last week of the embryonic stage

Ana made that point, too. Does this image not faithfully represent the remains of an abortion at 10 weeks?

 

 

If not, then gullible me. If so, the half inch embryo is not recognizable as such, which was the point of the video, as I understood it.

[Sawbonz 27565]

1 minute ago, Willfully Horn said:

Ana made that point, too. Does this image not faithfully represent the remains of an abortion at 10 weeks?

 

 

If not, then gullible me. If so, the half inch embryo is not recognizable as such, which was the point of the video, as I understood it.

I’m not sure the point that is being made. It is definitely not an intact embryo, so would not be recognizable as such. If you got hit by a speeding train, a picture of what was left would faithfully represent the remains of willfully horn.  I wouldn’t accept that as a valid argument that tossing you in front of a speeding train should be legal

 

** note I’m not arguing that destroying an embryo should be illegal, just that her argument is nonsense 

 

 

[Willfully Horn 8017]

14 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I’m not sure the point that is being made. It is definitely not an intact embryo, so would not be recognizable as such. If you got hit by a speeding train, a picture of what was left would faithfully represent the remains of willfully horn.  I wouldn’t accept that as a valid argument that tossing you in front of a speeding train should be legal

 

** note I’m not arguing that destroying an embryo should be illegal, just that her argument is nonsense 

 

 

Noted, and understood. I posted an attempt at a similar thought, earlier. 
 

I understood the video as a belated attempt at contrasting the visual impact of a typical abortion with those pictures commonly seen in anti-abortion propaganda. The placards resemble the auto (err, train) accident you mention. This image looks like schmaltz.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Willfully Horn

[Sawbonz 27565]

Just now, Willfully Horn said:

Noted, and understood. I posted an attempt at a similar thought, earlier. 
 

I understood the video as a belated attempt at contrasting the visual impact of a typical abortion with those pictures commonly seen in anti-abortion propaganda. The placards resemble the auto accident you mention. This image looks like schmaltz.

So the better analogy would be someone who had been put through a wood chipper

[Anastasis 23474]

The last image appears to be the mostly decidua at an extremely early stage, earlier than 10 weeks.

If it is the gestational sac, embryo remaining or not, it has been vitamixed.   

Edited October 20, 2022 by Anastasis

[Sawbonz 27565]

Viability outside the womb was the rationale behind Roe, as I understand it. While it is a moving target, it’s the only thing that makes sense to me from a medical / scientific standpoint. Past viability you have a legitimate argument that the rights of two individuals are in conflict IMO. In some cases the state may have an interest in deciding if the fetus’ rights should take precedence over the woman’s. The truth of the matter is the instances where that actually happens in real life are vanishingly rare

IOW I bet you would be hard pressed to find an instance where a healthy woman chose to abort a healthy fetus past the point of viability rather than carry to term or induce labor

Edited October 20, 2022 by Sawbonz

[Willfully Horn 8017]

Nine out of ten abortions are performed before twelve weeks, according to this report.

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/nine-out-of-10-abortions-done-before-12-weeks-in-many-high-income-countries/
 

[WhatTheBuck 28783]

Seems like a fitting place for this.

 

[jimmyjazz 45963]

19 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Viability outside the womb was the rationale behind Roe, as I understand it. While it is a moving target, it’s the only thing that makes sense to me from a medical / scientific standpoint.

Thank you.  Discussions about zygote/embryo/fetus seem to me to miss the point, no doubt intentionally. 

[tx 3 putt 76980]

 

[Anastasis 23474]

8 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Discussions about zygote/embryo/fetus seem to me to miss the point

In this house we believe science is real. 

[Willfully Horn 8017]

42 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

In this house we believe science is real. 

Yes, it is. But, science doesn’t define what people believe to be human life. Existence is not  the sum total of life. Go ahead, outlaw DNR decisions, you wing nut. 

Your religion might have an opinion. But that opinion differs among various religions. My religion has a different opinion.

For fifty years we lived with an enumerated right, and zealots such as yourself are willing to deny this right based on four opinions. Not an Amendment to the rule of Law that God, Himself, blessed for this country.

Pick and choose, hypocrite

 

[Anastasis 23474]

57 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

But, science doesn’t define what people believe to be human life.

It defines every other form of life in fairly objective terms. 

You are the one letting your philosophical positions cloud your thinking.  Not me. 

[Willfully Horn 8017]

21 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

It defines every other form of life in fairly objective terms. 

You are the one letting your philosophical positions cloud your thinking.  Not me. 

Our Constitution, the Law, the ruler of our country, does not depend on the scientific method. It was, is, and should remain, a philosophical document. Which aligns with the stated, bedrock, principle of freedom of religion.

Inability to recognize one’s own transgressions does not please the God of any religion of which zI am aware. Your belief in yourself is sinful, hombre.

[Anastasis 23474]

4 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Our Constitution, the Law, the ruler of our country, does not depend on the scientific method. It was, is, and should remain, a philosophical document. Which aligns with the stated, bedrock, principle of freedom of religion.

Inability to recognize one’s own transgressions does not please the God of any religion of which zI am aware. Your belief in yourself is sinful, hombre.

You were doing better in this exchange when you were just posting tiktoks and pictures that you did not understand. 

[Willfully Horn 8017]

7 hours ago, Anastasis said:

You were doing better in this exchange when you were just posting tiktoks and pictures that you did not understand. 

A better defense starts with the possibility you are wrong. Start with my last two posts. I’ll refrain from mocking your defining the Constitution as science.

Edited ti add that ots a busy weekend for me, and I’ve got to het to it. Won’t even catch the game(s) in real time. But, I hope to pick this topic  back up. I believe it will do you good, 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Willfully Horn

[DDD Dad 14339]

7 hours ago, Anastasis said:

You were doing better in this exchange when you were just posting tiktoks and pictures that you did not understand. 

Your intellect is so superior to the rest of us. Why do you bother posting here?

[wildcat09 29354]

Ana's giving off the college freshman vibes pretty strong this morning.

[Anastasis 23474]

1 hour ago, DDD Dad said:

Your intellect is so superior to the rest of us. Why do you bother posting here?

For the quality content like this...

1 hour ago, Willfully Horn said:

I’ll refrain from mocking your defining the Constitution as science.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Anastasis

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

10 hours ago, Anastasis said:

You were doing better in this exchange when you were just posting tiktoks and pictures that you did not understand. 

Hey, cunt, do us all a favor and sit down and shut the fuck up about abortion until you spontaneously grow a uterus.  You, like all other men, should get no fucking say.  

[bonnieblue 542]

You’re not going to be able to move most people who get all frothy over abortion or LGBT rights issues. They are each too convenient of a crutch for people with low moral character. Pregnancy will never affect any women past a certain age or any man, and LGTB items won’t affect 90% of the population (in a direct manner at least), so these are “sins” of which a large portion of people will never be “guilty”. As long as these are considered abhorrent, it provides ample cover for their own moral shortcomings. It’s always the people who cheated on multiple spouses/defrauded someone/ sexually assaulted someone etc. that seem to get the most worked up about these issues. Hmmm, wonder why?

[mchookem 16336]

3 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

Your intellect is so superior to the rest of us. Why do you bother posting here?

 

[jimmyjazz 45963]

13 hours ago, Anastasis said:

In this house we believe science is real. 

Of course science is real.  Science asserts that an embryo becomes a fetus after 8 weeks of pregnancy.  No 9 week old fetus is viable outside the womb.  For most Americans, viability is the bar to clear.  Is "philosophy" inherently part of that discussion?  Sure.  That doesn't render the viewpoint which differs from yours "wrong", a viewpoint which is grounded in the tenets of the Constitution.  That also matters.

Let us not ignore the fact that at least one major religion believes life starts at first breath.  Who are you to trample on their beliefs?

[Sawbonz 27565]

Just watched the Bill Burr Red Rocks show. He ends w abortion. Pretty much exactly my view, and delivered in a hilariously offensive to both sides manner

[jimmyjazz 45963]

29 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Just watched the Bill Burr Red Rocks show. He ends w abortion. Pretty much exactly my view, and delivered in a hilariously offensive to both sides manner

I love Bill Burr.  Equal opportunity offender.  Was this the clip?

 

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

5 hours ago, Anastasis said:

For the quality content like this...

 

[Anastasis 23474]

10 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Of course science is real. 

Do you agree with this statement?

On 10/21/2022 at 10:41 PM, Willfully Horn said:

science doesn’t define what people believe to be human life.

 

[Anastasis 23474]

12 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

shut the fuck up about abortion until you spontaneously grow a uterus.

You might want to think a bit more about this approach. This rules out a good number of your allies. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Anastasis

[Ted Lange 16109]

Would rule out a bunch of people who act like cunts 

[Willfully Horn 8017]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Do you agree with this statement?

 

Definition of life

1a: the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional being from a dead body

 

Is English your second language? 

[Anastasis 23474]

5 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Definition of life

1a: the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional being from a dead body

 

Is English your second language? 

This is really great.  This is what happens when you let people skate by through UT with the biology course for non-science majors. 

[Nicole44 22060]

It breaks my heart to read how much everything is politically or religiously motivated. If you feel comfortable I don’t. Nothing ever truly makes me feel comfortable about politics anymore or religion. I figure at this point God either knows me or not and I can forgive myself for my abortion at a time when I was young and confused and very much pressure was on me from my family. I was never Catholic but I went for two years lighting and blowing out candles for a child I never had. The idea that you can lump all people into any category still baffles me. I still deal with the ramifications of that. And I’m not sure I would have done what I did again. The whole idea that men at all have any kind of idea over any of this is beyond absurd. I remember reading a case about that famous actress Sophia vegara or whatever and she had eggs and she was married and got divorced and her ex is still tormenting her trying to fertilize them. At some point (a) he’s a stalker (b) stop. We’d be in a far better place if people had access to birth control and since it’s always up to the female a little bit of help. My heart is so sad because I do mourn the loss of children that will never be but I’m also forever thinking forward in that it doesn’t have to be this way. I share too much and for that I’m sorry. I consider surly most of y’all like a family but it’s complicated for me. I don’t see women so much as “rah rah rah I hate babies and love abortion” so much as why are we still in this place? I’m not saying give every male born a vasectomy but honestly to blame it all on women is beyond cruel. I see on KVUE every week they profile a child in Forster care up for adoption who just wants a forever family. The nastiness needs to stop. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

7 hours ago, Anastasis said:

You might want to think a bit more about this approach. This rules out a good number of your allies. 

And you miss the whole fucking point.  Allies understand that women should have bodily autonomy.  They may have feelings about abortion, but they keep them to them fucking selves.  Unlike your cunty both sides ass who wants policies that make women second class citizens.  Fuck off and die in a fire.

[hpslugga 4062]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

And you miss the whole fucking point.  Allies understand that women should have bodily autonomy.  They may have feelings about abortion, but they keep them to them fucking selves.  Unlike your cunty both sides ass who wants policies that make women second class citizens.  Fuck off and die in a fire.

I wouldn’t bother. You’re responding to someone with chronic cases of confirmation bias and the Dunning Kruger effect. His whole gimmick on this thread has been project, deflect, and distract. I’ve got him on ignore because well, that’s just what I do when I detect posters with a determination to not understand anything or not accept any information that contradicts what they think they know.

It’s the same reason I won’t discuss biological evolution with someone from Answers In Genesis. That’s the level of fanaticism you’re dealing with here. It’s not that what he says about this topic (and many others) are laughably, indefensibly, and inexcusably wrong; it’s that he and people like him are bound and determined to stay that way. There are people on this planet who are into that kind of thing, and it’s precisely and exactly because that’s the kind of thing they’re into. 

That’s not to say that there are 0 people on the other side of this issue worth speaking to and even attempt to persuade. I once did that with a person who previously believed that almost all abortions in the US were performed late term. I merely showed him the data that conclusively shows the exact opposite is true and he’s now pro choice. Those things are possible with reasonable people. They call them reasonable people because their standard on persuasion is “give me a reason to believe you and I will believe you.” By and large, the pro-life movement does not fit this description. 

[Bullneck 19107]

 

 

[jimmyjazz 45963]

11 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Do you agree with this statement?

               science doesn’t define what people believe to be human life.

It's not the way I'd word it, because as stated it seems to be making a case for how people come to their beliefs.

[Bama Chick 28596]

lol If men would MIND THEIR BUSINESS, women wouldn’t need any allies.

[Anastasis 23474]

Love reading critiques that lead with confirmation bias from posters that systemically bias the content they are exposed to via the ignore function.

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's not the way I'd word it, because as stated it seems to be making a case for how people come to their beliefs.

I think that we agree on this.  The scientific definition of life is fairly clear cut.   Willfully is overlaying philosophical arguments, and failing to recognize the distinction.

5 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Unlike your cunty both sides ass who wants policies that make women second class citizens.

I think that I have been clear on my public policy stance over the many years that this conversation has played out across these boards. I think that political/legal "solutions" are counterproductive and only result in a hardening of positions. The pendulum is peaking one direction right now, and will swing substantially to the other. And in the meantime we don't achieve anything that actually addresses the more problematic areas where people can find common ground on the topic.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Love reading critiques that lead with confirmation bias from posters that systemically bias the content they are exposed to via the ignore function.

I think that we agree on this.  The scientific definition of life is fairly clear cut.   Willfully is overlaying philosophical arguments, and failing to recognize the distinction.

I think that I have been clear on my public policy stance over the many years that this conversation has played out across these boards. I think that political/legal "solutions" are counterproductive and only result in a hardening of positions. The pendulum is peaking one direction right now, and will swing substantially to the other. And in the meantime we don't achieve anything that actually addresses the more problematic areas where people can find common ground on the topic.  

Get fucked.  Your condescension is absolutely not acceptable.

[jimmyjazz 45963]

13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I think that we agree on this.  The scientific definition of life is fairly clear cut.   

I don't know if that's necessarily true (cue your insult about my college biology education).  Show me where there is an absolute consensus on this.  I have read many treatises that try to logically define that bright line, and they don't all agree.  Some argue conception, some argue the transition from cellular life to a more holistic definition that points at the ability for the neural system to control organ and other functions, and some try to create a "symmetry" of sorts that mirrors the definition of death outside the womb (loss of brain activity), thus implying presence of brain activity to define life in the womb.

I'm not a medical ethicist, but I can recognize a lack of overwhelming agreement when I see it.  Beyond that, the history of America is rife with difficult tradeoffs between "natural law" (for lack of a better phrase) and individual rights, including Roe V Wade.  To ignore the right to privacy & bodily autonomy elements of the discussion is to deny the value of basic rights most Americans recognize.

[mchookem 16336]

19 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

To ignore the right to privacy & bodily autonomy elements of the discussion is to deny the value of basic rights most Americans recognize.

[Goofyboy 3293]

Wait - if it’s life and that life threatens the mother, mother can take that life in self defense. Seems pretty clear cut.

[jimmyjazz 45963]

3 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Wait - if it’s life and that life threatens the mother, mother can take that life in self defense. Seems pretty clear cut.

In Texas, that only applies for white guys and cops.