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Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery

bad_teammate

By bad_teammate
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elfenix

elfenix 34231

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

inflation at infinity

hyper inflation was 1921-23, it was well over before hitler rose to power (and IIRC early incarnations of the nazi party lost seats in following elections).  i guess you could say that avoiding a new inflationary period through austerity measures, which crushed the german economy in response to the great depression, put hitler into power (hitler promised jobs and was followed through on that promise), but that's not the usual path the argument takes. 

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Bama Chick
Bama Chick

No. Fuck off with that. Not every abortion is about trauma and tragedy and using that framing plays into the christofascist’s hands. Women are humans. Humans have bodily autonomy. Ergo, women have b

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

I do love this argument. I really do. It’s as convenient a way to label yourself a drooling moron as exists, outside of towing around a giant neon “I’M A MORON” sign. No, they didn’t teach us that

hayden_horn
hayden_horn

of course you do. thing is, i would support that. if they choose that. and the real thing is, i'm actually pro life. both my sons were very premature, and had they been born in the 80s, they

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CTC2

CTC2 2796

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Making the truly red states redder won't help the Rs in the long run though - they lost a state like Wisconsin pretty much for good last week (it was never that red but when every electoral vote matters, it hurts), and Arizona and even places like Georgia, and the states that Trump lost to Biden, and they are toast.  And the Republicans have to contend with all of the baggage that Trump will be bringing if he's around in the '24 election, oh and Trump is sucking up a lot of money that would go to help down-ballot Republicans, and he's doing it deliberately.

And the Republicans have doubled down on issues that are going to get young people out to vote, and did get young people out to vote last year and in '20.  Meanwhile the boomers are dying off (and COVID helped), and more and more of the rural youth are moving out of the rural areas.  Demographics aren't going to favor the Republicans.

Not taking issue with what you are saying but Wisconsin T’s aren’t dead. They may not win another state wide election but they are so gerrymandered up that they will control the statehouse for the foreseeable future.  Same thing here in Texas even if it miraculously turned blue. 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89650

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, CTC2 said:

Not taking issue with what you are saying but Wisconsin T’s aren’t dead. They may not win another state wide election but they are so gerrymandered up that they will control the statehouse for the foreseeable future.  Same thing here in Texas even if it miraculously turned blue. 

They hitched their wagon to abortion and it cost them now and in the future.  If Texas turned blue, I don't think the Rs could override a veto at that point.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89650

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, NWBuck said:

I find this concept hilariously intriguing 

Shit, meant ID, but you know, for a government idea in Texas, you'd need to look at Florida.

Oh, and Texas legislators have filed copycat ID bills, but they appear to be languishing in committee

https://action.freespeechcoalition.com/age-verification-bills/

 

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DigglerontheHoof

DigglerontheHoof 21186

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

When was the Nazi party founded?

 

When was the beer hall putsch?

The putsch failed, just like 1/6.  Hitler got a slap on the hand (which is more than anyone in power involved w/ Jan 6 has gotten), smartened up and went about it though the elections.  Oh, and he seized power w/ about 35% of the population behind him.  Pretty fucking close to dotard's percentage of minions. 

Our democracy is in deep, deep shit. 

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27547

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

The putsch failed, just like 1/6.  Hitler got a slap on the hand (which is more than anyone in power involved w/ Jan 6 has gotten), smartened up and went about it though the elections.  Oh, and he seized power w/ about 35% of the population behind him.  Pretty fucking close to dotard's percentage of minions. 

Our democracy is in deep, deep shit. 

How many parties were there in Germany in 1933? Trump has already been rejected via elections. You really think he is more likely to win in 2024?  He is more likely to be dead in 2025 than President. The overall trends in other elections is away from the republicans, and yet within the party they are still going further right. That will change as they continue to lose. And it will be abortion restrictions that kill them
 

As I said it is possible for us to fail. It is not likely. Hitler came in to power with a perfect storm of events with a population very different from ours, and still almost failed. 

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Captainant

Captainant 27655

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

How many parties were there in Germany in 1933? Trump has already been rejected via elections. You really think he is more likely to win in 2024?  He is more likely to be dead in 2025 than President. The overall trends in other elections is away from the republicans, and yet within the party they are still going further right. That will change as they continue to lose. And it will be abortion restrictions that kill them
 

As I said it is possible for us to fail. It is not likely. Hitler came in to power with a perfect storm of events with a population very different from ours, and still almost failed. 

Stop fixating on small details - you're missing the forest for the trees. Study the rise of Italian fascism or even our own abortive Business Plot in the 1930s (led by bush sr's daddy, before he helped fund the Nazis) if you need more points of comparison. 

Doing this sort of braindead uncritical "well not every detail lines up perfectly therefore it's inapplicable" is a great way to be complacent as fascism continues to grow. 

Like you are aware that our governor is going to pardon a convicted murderer just because he likes his politics right? The next major step forward in fascism - the acceptance and growth of political violence - is fucking here already dude. 

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27547

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Stop fixating on small details - you're missing the forest for the trees. Study the rise of Italian fascism or even our own abortive Business Plot in the 1930s (led by bush sr's daddy, before he helped fund the Nazis) if you need more points of comparison. 

Doing this sort of braindead uncritical "well not every detail lines up perfectly therefore it's inapplicable" is a great way to be complacent as fascism continues to grow. 

Like you are aware that our governor is going to pardon a convicted murderer just because he likes his politics right? The next major step forward in fascism - the acceptance and growth of political violence - is fucking here already dude. 

Why would you think I haven’t considered all of that? I am not focused on minor details. I am pointing out major differences in the 2 societies, which arguably are the main reasons Hitler was able to succeed. I wish the likelihood of a fascist state were zero. I realize it is not. I also realize it is not a foregone conclusion like some posters apparently believe. 
 

I will vote. Presumably you will as well. Encourage everyone you know to vote. The most likely outcome is that the enablers in the Republican Party will come around when these policies start affecting them personally. Pointing out reality is not complacency. 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45675

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

How many parties were there in Germany in 1933? Trump has already been rejected via elections. You really think he is more likely to win in 2024?  He is more likely to be dead in 2025 than President. The overall trends in other elections is away from the republicans, and yet within the party they are still going further right. That will change as they continue to lose. And it will be abortion restrictions that kill them
 

As I said it is possible for us to fail. It is not likely. Hitler came in to power with a perfect storm of events with a population very different from ours, and still almost failed. 

I hope this is correct and I think it's probably more likely than not, HOWEVER, that depends entirely on Dems and Independents (whatever) staying involved and getting out to fucking vote.  It's annoying that we have to stay vigilant for the foreseeable decades. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45899

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

I hope this is correct and I think it's probably more likely than not, HOWEVER, that depends entirely on Dems and Independents (whatever) staying involved and getting out to fucking vote.  It's annoying that we have to stay vigilant for the foreseeable decades. 

Had Democrats been vigilant for the last five decades none of this shit would have ever happened.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45675

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Had Democrats been vigilant for the last five decades none of this shit would have ever happened.

Exactly my point.  And I admit to not paying too much attention in my 20s (did most of us?).  I didn't vote in 2000 (my first eligible year), but have every presidential election since and have voted in every mid-term since I think 2012.  

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89650

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

Well well well 

As if they are going to listen to you Nikki.

It's actually not that bad of a play on her part if you think in terms of her positioning herself for a run in 2028 or 2032.  If you look at the top four Republicans in most polling, it's Trump, DeSantis, Pence, and Haley, with Pence and Haley polling in mid-single digits.

We know she's not going to win the nomination next year, we know she will drop long before it gets to the final two, and she knows that the media would pick up on her abortion comments - I fully believe those abortion comments were directed at moderates/Republican kingmakers. 

Trump will not be an issue in 2028 (MAGA might be, but he won't).

DeSantis won't be an issue in 2028.  He is going really hard on abortion, was just embarrassed on a national scale by Disney/ABC, his PR people embarrass him, and he is Trump's top Republican enemy.  Arguably and quite publicly, Trump hates DeSantis more than Biden or any other Democrat, because Trump feels DeSantis betrayed him. By 2028  DeSantis will have been out of office a few years and can no longer be getting legislative wins. DeSantis is trying so hard to be the asshole right-winger he thinks he needs to be to win MAGA over but Trump has tainted the pool for him. A lot of moderate Republicans are like "yeah, we may need MAGA to win, but MAGA is also the reason why we aren't winning" and they maybe keeping DeSantis within 20 points of Trump this year just on the off chance Trump drops, but they can't lift him over the top, and MAGA won't back him in 2024 or 2028.  Trump will make sure DeSantis will not sniff the White House, because if Trump can't have it, neither can somebody that has betrayed him.

Pence is a non-factor for 2028.  I'd argue that Trump has already destroyed him with MAGA which explains his low polling numbers, and why Trump doesn't care to throw the kind of attention at him that he does DeSantis, but Pence is already done with the MAGA crowd - too many of them think he was the key to keeping Trump in office and that he let them and Trump down.  Pence polling ahead of Haley makes me think there is some small group of evangelicals who sense he's one of their own, and while they will vote for whoever wins the primary, Pence is their guy until then.  Or it's a group of moderates who hate Trump and DeSantis, but while Pence is evangelical as hell, Pence also knows how to play the game in DC. Or a little of both groups.

Nikki...Nikki...Nikki....Trump has thrown shade at her, but he also mentioned that she appeared to kiss the ring and discussed permission for running for office with him, which is something DeSantis didn't do, so she didn't full-on betray him like DeSantis did and he hasn't fully tried to destroy her with MAGA like DeSantis did (he's definitely tried to hurt her, but her polling keeps her out of his life of fire at DeSantis).  Of course, MAGA is all about making abortions illegal, but if she has decided MAGA won't back her, or that they'll ultimately pull the (R) lever in 2028 no matter who is on the ticket, she's making a safe play by hedging her bet on abortion.  Plus, she can always drop out of the race this year, let MAGA eat itself, and lose to the Dems next year, and then she can jump into the nomination pool in 2026/2027 and tell the Republican kingmakers/moderates "look, I was talking about abortion being a problem for the GOP with women in 2023 and you all didn't listen to me, and I'm not a part of the Trump and DeSantis fight, and being a woman and having talked to women about abortion, you all really need me in the mix".

She's the only one of the top 4-5 that can try and make the issue of abortion work for her with women if she's the only one out there not trying to make it absolute like DeSantis is (Trump could give a rat's ass about abortion).

Edited by atomheartbevo
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ChuckNorrisActionJeans

ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2663

Posted
Posted

I don't know if anyone is interested but me... but this is a very thorough and brutal take-down of Kaczmarek's decision, which answered basically all of my questions.

https://adamunikowsky.substack.com/p/mifepristone-and-the-rule-of-law-9c4

Now, the Fifth Circuit (2-1) has upheld all restrictions on the drug from before they were loosened several years ago (guess they couldn't avoid ruling that the statute of limitations expired to challenge original FDA approval) and in doing so, rubber stamped the insane finding of plaintiff standing, bloviating on the risks of the drug, etc. 

Read Unikowsky's analysis -- he clerked for Scalia-- and you get even more outraged that our federal judiciary has been taken over by activist nut jobs who will twist the law well past the breaking point to get what they want. He doesn't say that. He doesn't have to. 

 

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 76906

Posted
Posted

Abortion decriminalization

As the other centerpiece of Prop A, the section on abortion would prohibit SAPD officers from investigating, making arrests or otherwise enforcing “any alleged criminal abortion.”

The only exceptions would be in instances where a pregnant person is coerced or forced, or in cases involving conduct that’s criminally negligent to the health of the pregnant person seeking care.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89650

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

That’s a lot of words to say “Nikki Haley will never ever ever win the GOP nomination for president”.

Depends on how things go over the next 18 months - if she drops early enough, she escapes Trump's wrath. Like I said, Trump will make sure that DeSantis does not come out of 2024 as a viable candidate and Pence's political career is finished (unless he runs for a legislative seat). Even if she doesn't win the nomination in 2028, she'll at least be on the ticket in 2028.  Assuming that Republicans don't keep on down the batshit path.

 

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ChuckNorrisActionJeans

ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2663

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Posted

Not sure Oklahomans in power would care or be displeased about any of that unless there's a fetal/infant mortality rate in there. 

Very few replies to the tweet and the first one is: First - we are failing them by calling some men women. Fix that first.

And then "what is a woman" and "trans is a mental illness" 

This country's troglodytes are many, easily led, and thoroughly diseased.

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89650

Posted
Posted

Texas GIF

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas-politics/no-exceptions-coming-for-texas-abortion-ban-both-parties-say/

Quote

With just 21 days left to pass House bills out of committee, there is no sign in the Texas legislature that any changes are coming to the state’s strict abortion ban. On Monday morning, lawmakers who authored the legislation that made providing abortion a felony stood with activists to denounce any possible changes to the law.

“The origin of the conception is not what determines the value of life,” State Sen. Angela Paxton said. “I am the result of an unplanned pregnancy.”

Quote

Rep. Giovanni Capriglione, (R-Southlake), said his goal this session is to prevent any exceptions that would weaken the restrictions.

“There is no such thing as an unplanned pregnancy. There’s a plan for everyone,” he said.

Quote

They highlighted 10 bills that aim to loosen the abortion ban to exempt cases like rape, incest, and fatal birth defects. All are authored by Democrats and none have received a hearing in their respective committees.

“I don’t see that any change is on the horizon,” state rep. Mihaela Plesa said. “I have been working really hard with members across the aisle, I’ve been working with leadership of the public health committee to try to get some of my bills heard on the floor.”

Quote

Rep. Plesa, (D-Dallas), has filed a series of bills to clarify when doctors may intervene in a high-risk pregnancy.

HB 1490 would require doctors to prioritize the woman’s life above the life of the fetus. She intended this to be an answer to Gov. Greg Abbott’s request that doctors have clear instructions in how to handle those emergency cases.

Quote

“I thought that was just a common sense bill because the governor asked for clarification around these abortion exemptions,” she said. “That’s what my bill was supposed to do, just to create that clarification so that doctors aren’t put in a hard position. When you’re having woman go into septic shock… the choice will be absolutely easy for the doctors.”

Quote

In November, just before the general election, Abbott told KXAN he will focus on clarifying the law doctors must follow.

“There are some doctors who say they don’t have the authority to treat things like ectopic pregnancies or miscarriages,” he said. “I believe that’s unacceptable. So one thing I will be keenly focused on is clarifying and making sure the state is doing everything we possibly can to protect the life of the mother.”

Quote

On Monday, however, Texas Alliance for Life said there is no need to change the law to accomplish that. 

“Our laws are very clear,” Amy O’Donnell with the Alliance for Life said. “We have heard stories of doctors who say they need further clarification. And we believe that that clarification should come in the same way that it comes for doctors regarding other legislative laws that have passed that affect their practice, and that’s through the various boards that provide that clarification for them, as well as for nurses and for pharmacists. The laws do not need to be changed.”

Remember, the Republicans are making sure there are no exceptions, and causing all of these problems for doctors is completely by design.  Abbott just threw that out there to try and defuse the situation, but as usually, 100% bullshit.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28776

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Texas GIF

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas-politics/no-exceptions-coming-for-texas-abortion-ban-both-parties-say/

Remember, the Republicans are making sure there are no exceptions, and causing all of these problems for doctors is completely by design.  Abbott just threw that out there to try and defuse the situation, but as usually, 100% bullshit.

Sick fucks. Jesus. 

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Willfully Horn

Willfully Horn 8008

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Maybe if there were some evidence that pro-lifers give a shit about kids following birth . . .

More likely to see camps for rape surviving children, who became mothers, who are too young to work, despite the best efforts to lower age requirements for employment.

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hornmpa96

hornmpa96 2618

Posted
Posted
On 4/18/2023 at 9:05 AM, atomheartbevo said:

Texas GIF

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas-politics/no-exceptions-coming-for-texas-abortion-ban-both-parties-say/

Remember, the Republicans are making sure there are no exceptions, and causing all of these problems for doctors is completely by design.  Abbott just threw that out there to try and defuse the situation, but as usually, 100% bullshit.

How am I just hearing about these bills on this message board?

The Ds in Texas need to have this information on TV commercials and billboards all across the state.

These so-called “pro-lifers” are barbaric. While this won’t change the hard-core religious right voters, it may turn some votes in the suburbs.

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