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Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery

bad_teammate

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Bama Chick
Bama Chick

No. Fuck off with that. Not every abortion is about trauma and tragedy and using that framing plays into the christofascist’s hands. Women are humans. Humans have bodily autonomy. Ergo, women have b

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

I do love this argument. I really do. It’s as convenient a way to label yourself a drooling moron as exists, outside of towing around a giant neon “I’M A MORON” sign. No, they didn’t teach us that

hayden_horn
hayden_horn

of course you do. thing is, i would support that. if they choose that. and the real thing is, i'm actually pro life. both my sons were very premature, and had they been born in the 80s, they

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ChuckNorrisActionJeans

ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2663

Posted
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1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

 

 

The analysis seems tortured to reach the obvious conclusion they want. Start with the continuous nomenclature of "unborn child" rather than a scientific or medical term. And of course it comes down to "legislation didn't specify or define every last term, so in a battle between ill/dying woman and unborn child, gotta go with the 'child" being equal or more important, i.e. no right to abortion care." Judicial activism continues to run amok.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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If the State's view is that women are property, then why would it be surprising that the fetus is considered equal or greater than? If property expires, then simply acquire a new parcel (womb). What hasn't yet happened is the discussion (legal or otherwise) as to why the male progenitor is not allowed to make the property holder's decision versus the doctor if the male progenitor is present.

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CooterBrown

CooterBrown 18006

Posted
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15 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Men will do unspeakably cruel shit if they're frustrated by not getting any pussy.

 

There wouldn't be jihadists in the world if everybody could just get laid on occasion.  There's a reason why the 72 virgins is the carrot to get incels to kill themselves.

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TheRealRonWeaver?

TheRealRonWeaver? 1258

Posted
Posted
...and crucial to manipulating people via low self-esteem is indoctrinating them into a value system that prioritizes winning, getting what they want, and status seeking over just being a decent human being and the golden rule. 

Yeah, don’t let religion and sectarianism off the hook.
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PenelopeWitherspoon

PenelopeWitherspoon 19100

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This is infuriating.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/03/us/brittany-watts-ohio-miscarriage-abortion.html

Quote

A grand jury in Ohio is considering whether to indict a woman who miscarried a nonviable fetus at home and has been charged with abuse of a corpse in what experts say is an extremely rare interpretation of a state law.

The woman, Brittany Watts, 34, of Warren, Ohio, was arrested in October after passing a fetus in her bathroom and trying to flush the remains down the toilet. The case has been before a Trumbull County grand jury since November. If convicted, Ms. Watts, who could face up to a year in prison. She has pleaded not guilty.

The grand jury was expected to give its report on Wednesday, but Guy M. Vogrin, a spokesman for the Trumbull County prosecutor, said the case had been continued until the next session in a couple weeks. The reason for the postponement was unclear as grand jury proceedings are secret.

Although records show that Ms. Watts spontaneously miscarried, a finding that the state has not challenged, the case has come under scrutiny by lawyers and reproductive health advocates who say that prosecuting her is baseless and may deter other women who miscarry from obtaining medical attention they need.

The charge came a month before Ohio voters enshrined the right to abortion in the State Constitution until the point of fetal viability, 22 weeks in the state, as well as the right to contraception, fertility treatment and miscarriage care.

The measure, which went into effect in early December, was part of a winning streak for abortion-rights groups after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in June 2022. Ms. Watts is being “demonized for something that goes on everyday,” her lawyer, Traci Timko, said before Judge Terry Ivanchak of the Warren Municipal Court last month.

But Judge Ivanchak, who has since retired, found probable cause to send the charge to a grand jury for consideration.

According to a report by the Trumbull County Coroner’s Office, Ms. Watts was 21 weeks and five days pregnant when she was admitted to St. Joseph Warren Hospital in Youngstown, Ohio, with vaginal bleeding on Sept. 19. Doctors determined that her water broke prematurely and her cervix became dilated; Ms. Watts also had a significantly elevated white blood cell count.

Doctors were able to detect cardiac activity but “recommended she be induced and deliver the fetus despite its nonviable status,” the report said, because she was at significant risk of maternal death, sepsis or “complete placental abruption with catastrophic bleeding.”

On her initial visit to the hospital, Ms Watts left after waiting eight hours for a hospital ethics panel to determine whether to induce her pregnancy without legal ramifications because she was on the cusp of Ohio’s viability timeline, 22 weeks, Ms. Timko told The Associated Press. The hospital declined to comment.

 

Ms. Watts went home to “process the information she was told,” the coroner’s report said. She returned the next day with the same symptoms and left a second time without treatment.

On Sept. 22, Ms. Watts passed the fetus at home alone in her bathroom and returned to the hospital, where she received a dilation and curettage, also called a D and C, to remove the placenta, according to the report. The hospital notified the Warren City Police Department about the miscarriage and “the need to locate the fetus.”

The police found the fetus clogged in her bathroom toilet, the report said, noting that Ms. Watts had told the police that she disposed of what she believed to be the remains in a bucket in her backyard. The police then took the entire toilet out of the home and took it to a morgue, “where it was broken open” to retrieve the fetus, the report said.

The autopsy report found that the fetus had died in utero — before delivery — because of complications of premature rupturing of the membranes.

The police charged Ms. Watts on Oct. 5 with abuse of corpse as a felony under a law adopted by the Ohio Legislature in 1996. The case is being prosecuted by the Warren City Prosecutor’s Office.

 

The law in question bars the treatment of “a human corpse in a way that the person knows would outrage” either “reasonable family sensibilities,” resulting in a misdemeanor, or “community sensibilities,” resulting in a felony charge.

“From a legal perspective, there’s no definition of ‘corpse,’” Ms. Timko, Ms. Watts’s lawyer, said in the interview with The Associated Press. “Can you be a corpse if you never took a breath?”

Ohio law determines fetal viability starts at 22 weeks. Ms. Watts arrived at the hospital at 21 weeks and 5 days.

Joshua Dressler, a former criminal law professor at Ohio State University, said the statute being used by prosecutors was “rarely enforced” and typically involves the abuse or mutilation of a human being. But in common law, a fetus does not become a human being until birth, he said, and since the fetus died in utero, “this would, to me, not constitute being a human corpse.”

“This is an entirely different way of understanding the meaning of the term corpse,” he said. “I think this is a serious, serious problem with the prosecution on those grounds.”

Jessie Hill, a law professor at Case Western Reserve University who has worked on abortion rights cases, said Ms. Watt’s case wades into the debate over fetal personhood.

“By using something like abuse of corpse as a hook to prosecute this case, it kind of assumes the conclusion that this fetus was a person or the equivalent to a born person,” she said. “That’s definitely a troubling aspect of the case.”

Ms. Hill also noted “pregnancy outcomes for people of color are so much more likely to be questioned and to result in criminalization.”

Had Ms. Watts miscarried at the hospital, Ms. Hill said, the fetus would not have been treated as a corpse.

Last month, Dennis Watkins, the Trumbull County prosecutor, a Democrat, said his office was “duty bound” to follow Ohio law and move forward with a grand jury proceeding.

But Michael Benza, a criminal law professor at Case Western, said it was up to the prosecutor to decide. He said “there are a lot of problems” with the prosecutor’s case, including the definition of a human corpse. But the prosecution’s biggest challenge might be in the vagueness of the language.

“If my students wrote this statute,” he said, “they would fail.”

First, prosecutors must make a case for why the remains constitute a human corpse. They’ll also have to persuade the jury that Ms. Watts’s actions brought “outrage” to the public.

The prosecution’s interpretation of the statute exceeds its intentions, Mr. Benza said, but public pressure may have prompted the prosecutor to place charges.

Ohio Physicians for Reproductive Rights sent a letter to the prosecutor, Mr. Watkins, “protesting the unjust prosecution” of Ms. Watts, and urged him to dismiss “the unwarranted” charge. More than 4,000 health care workers and community leaders signed the letter.

Ms. Hill, the reproductive health lawyer, said Ms. Watts’s case may be a sign of things to come in Ohio in the wake of the constitutional amendment to protect reproductive health care, and said there could be more efforts to criminalize miscarriages and other pregnancy outcomes.

Fuck the GQP.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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Posted

Some of the recent headlines discussed how there has been outflow of residents from 'blue' to 'red' states, but less discussed were the headlines that mentioned that life expectancy was longer in 'blue' states vs 'red' states. Come to conservative states to reach heaven sooner is the motto you know. Or hell while alive. You'd think women would be leaving as soon as they could scrape together enough to do so but that kind of mobility for many women is difficult and always has been.

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DigglerontheHoof

DigglerontheHoof 21186

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/3/2024 at 5:08 PM, Neonmoon said:

If you are a female that lives in a red state: move to a blue state 

 

 

I have 5 nieces.  Two have already left Texas and the other 3 are in the process of leaving.  

Edited by DigglerontheHoof
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HenryJames

HenryJames 66041

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Posted

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2024/01/05/abortion-amendment-florida-pregnancy-ban-planned-parenthood/

Spoiler

Florida abortion amendment gets enough signatures for 2024 ballot

The constitutional amendment still needs the approval of the Florida Supreme Court to qualify.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Abortion access protesters gathered at Joe Chillura Courthouse Square in Tampa on Jan. 22, 2023, which marked the 50th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision. Abortion access protesters gathered at Joe Chillura Courthouse Square in Tampa on Jan. 22, 2023, which marked the 50th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision. [ AYA DIAB | Times ]

By 
 
Published Earlier today|Updated 4 hours ago

Backers of a proposed constitutional amendment that would undo Florida’s restrictive abortion laws have surpassed the required number of petition signatures to get on the 2024 ballot, according to data from the Florida Division of Elections.

But Floridians Protecting Freedom still faces the hurdle of state Supreme Court approval. Attorney General Ashley Moody has asked the Florida high court to disqualify the amendment from the ballot, saying the language could mislead voters.

The proposal would amend the state’s Constitution to explicitly protect abortion access until viability, which is estimated to be around 24 weeks.

It would undo the state’s current 15-week abortion ban and negate a six-week banlawmakers approved to take effect pending the outcome of an ongoing Florida Supreme Court case.

The Florida group needed 891,523 verified petitions to make it on the ballot. As of Friday’s count, the Division of Elections had verified 910,946. The campaign said it expects to receive official notification in the coming weeks.

More than 63,000 of those petitions came from Pinellas and more than 71,000 came from Hillsborough.

“The fact that we only launched our campaign eight months ago and we’ve already reached our petition goal speaks to the unprecedented support and momentum there is to get politicians out of our private lives and health care decisions,” Floridians Protecting Freedom Campaign Director Lauren Brenzel said in a statement. “Most initiative campaigns never make it this far. The ones that do usually spend far more or take much longer to qualify, which is why we’re so confident that voters will approve our amendment once they’re given a chance to vote.”

Since the U.S. Supreme Court in 2022overturned Roe v. Wade — the 1973 case that declared abortion was constitutionally protected — seven states have had ballot measures related to abortion. In each case, voters have supported more abortion access or denied further restrictions. The most recent case was in Ohio, where about 57% of voters in November supported a measure that would protect abortion up until viability, similar to Florida’s proposed amendment.

 

Floridians Protecting Freedom, which is backed by organizations like Planned Parenthood and the ACLU of Florida, had raised nearly $9 million as of the end of September.

The largest one-time donation, of $1 million, came from Democratic activist and philanthropist Marsha Laufer, who donated in late April shortly before the campaign’s launch.

The next step for the campaign will depend on the conservative Florida Supreme Court’s ruling. The court has scheduled oral arguments for Feb. 7. Moody raised concern over the amendment’s use of the term “viability,” which she says can be interpreted as having multiple meanings.

Florida law defines viability as “the stage of fetal development when the life of a fetus is sustainable outside the womb through standard medical measures.”

The petition campaign director, Brenzel, said earlier this year that Moody’s filing represents a “disingenuous argument by a politician desperate to block Floridians from voting on this amendment.”

If the amendment makes it onto the ballot, it can only pass with at least 60% of voters in support.

 

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ChuckNorrisActionJeans

ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2663

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Ireland allowed a vote in which the citizens chose to make it legal after a woman died under very similar circumstances as those under which Texas women are, or soon will be, dying. If there haven't been deaths here, it's just a matter of time because a lot of shit that happens during pregnancy that leads to death is not that uncommon. Perhaps publicizing a death will make a difference. But we don't get to have ballot measures like other states... so less freedom than other states.... or even Ireland. Yet the Freedom Flag Eagle Patriot bullshit myth persists. 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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Posted

Reduced numbers of medical students selecting the OB-Gyn specialty is going to be a tough reckoning nationwide, but hey, as long as a guy can get his ED pills and such, I guess nothing else matters. Some men (and women) forget that there is more to womens' healthcare than just birthing babies. The states (besides Idaho) that decide not to keep too close an eye on maternal mortality may be the lead indicator (that a situation is worsening), but overall life expectancy (for women) may worsen in general. Over 80% of women who seek gynecological care are between 18-45, but gynecologists diagnose and treat other issues with female reproductive organs.

 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105095

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Posted
16 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Reduced numbers of medical students selecting the OB-Gyn specialty is going to be a tough reckoning nationwide, but hey, as long as a guy can get his ED pills and such, I guess nothing else matters. Some men (and women) forget that there is more to womens' healthcare than just birthing babies. The states (besides Idaho) that decide not to keep too close an eye on maternal mortality may be the lead indicator (that a situation is worsening), but overall life expectancy (for women) may worsen in general. Over 80% of women who seek gynecological care are between 18-45, but gynecologists diagnose and treat other issues with female reproductive organs.

 

Counterpoint: tough shit, bitches, that's the burden you deserve because of that shit that Eve did with the snake and the apple.  Shut up and take the punishment you deserve.

I wish that what I just typed was entirely ironic.  It is not.

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mchookem

mchookem 16327

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Posted (edited)

i think i relayed earlier what a difficult time my college-age niece is having getting birth control prescribed in North Texas...

anyways she was just visiting here in Denver and we passed a Planned Parenthood place and i was remembering and telling her about the 'good old days' - yes, in Texas - where my friends and i in high school in Houston would drive ourselves to PP and get free pap smears, pregnancy and std tests, and birth control. she was amazed... and it really brought home just how much Texas has regressed in my lifetime. it's seriously mind-boggling. 😐 

Edited by mchookem
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

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Posted
1 hour ago, royiv said:

These numbers are so eye popping that I don't even know if they should be believed. This would represent about 7-8% of all births in Texas. Truly astounding. I though Greg was going to eliminate rape?

More than 26K rape-related pregnancies estimated after Texas outlawed abortions, new study says

Here is the research letter that that paywalled article is based on. 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2814274?

 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

Posted
Posted
On 1/24/2024 at 3:21 PM, mchookem said:

i think i relayed earlier what a difficult time my college-age niece is having getting birth control prescribed in North Texas...

anyways she was just visiting here in Denver and we passed a Planned Parenthood place and i was remembering and telling her about the 'good old days' - yes, in Texas - where my friends and i in high school in Houston would drive ourselves to PP and get free pap smears, pregnancy and std tests, and birth control. she was amazed... and it really brought home just how much Texas has regressed in my lifetime. it's seriously mind-boggling. 😐 

I'm at the point now where the "it's God's will" crowd that dominates the laws surrounding women's reproductive rights can now ban ED and Low T pharmaceuticals because it is God's will that a male has these issues. Women should be able to sue anyone that aids or abets a male who receives medical assistance in this matter.

Not so extreme when one considers the lengths at which the state would like to interfere with women's medical care.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105095

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Posted
Just now, Mrs Whiggins said:

I'm at the point now where the "it's God's will" crowd that dominates the laws surrounding women's reproductive rights can now ban ED and Low T pharmaceuticals because it is God's will that a male has these issues. Women should be able to sue anyone that aids or abets a male who receives medical assistance in this matter.

Not so extreme when one considers the lengths at which the state would like to interfere with women's medical care.

I 100% support a law banning any ED treatments for a man who is not in a traditional, male-female marriage.  It is an affront to God to provide boners to men who would be, by definition, fornicating or committing sodomy.  I demand that this state play NO PART in supporting fornication or sodomy.

I'm confident that all my fellow Christian leaders will go along with me, right?

Wait, what's that?  They'll do no such thing, because none of this is actually about morality, being pro-life, or any of that shit?  It's JUST about subjugating women?  Well gosh-golly, I'm quite shocked by that.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105095

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

The ones that are abusing minors certainly won't.

Well, I'm confident that a significant number of Christian "pastors" and other Republican leaders will tell you that there are few things more disappointing than having the chance to sodomize a minor, but not being able to pop wood when the opportunity presents itself.  It's really the only thing that makes Republicans sad these days.

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safe sex

safe sex 11709

Posted
Posted
On 1/25/2024 at 4:18 PM, Brisketexan said:

I 100% support a law banning any ED treatments for a man who is not in a traditional, male-female marriage.  It is an affront to God to provide boners to men who would be, by definition, fornicating or committing sodomy.  I demand that this state play NO PART in supporting fornication or sodomy.

I'm confident that all my fellow Christian leaders will go along with me, right?

Wait, what's that?  They'll do no such thing, because none of this is actually about morality, being pro-life, or any of that shit?  It's JUST about subjugating women?  Well gosh-golly, I'm quite shocked by that.

Nah, I could see them trying to ban gays from getting ED treatment.

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HenryJames

HenryJames 66041

Posted
Posted

https://www.newsfromthestates.com/article/study-cited-texas-judge-abortion-pill-case-retracted

Two of the key studies cited by plaintiffs and judges as evidence that medication abortion should be pulled from the market or heavily restricted have been retracted because of undeclared conflicts of interest and unreliable findings, academic publisher Sage announced Monday. 

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