Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery

[cactusflinthead 27,598]

Nsiap

 

[DigglerontheHoof 21,183]

Sounds like something some ugly bitch who can't get laid would say. 

[atomheartbevo 89,629]

39 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Sounds like something some ugly bitch who can't get laid would say. 

Incels are driving it.  If they can’t get laid, nobody should. 

[GreenspointTexas 9,598]

Working at a fertility hospital yesterday and today. Doc im working with today says UAB has suspended all fertility shit indefinitely.

 

Says he believes that under Bamas new law, that if a transfer doesnt take or it become a miscarriage, its murder? Is that correct?

 

 

edit: didnt see it posted on previous page

Edited February 22 by GreenspointTexas

[Aqua Buddha 14,582]

7 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

"THERE'S A MARRIAGE CRISIS!!  WHY WON'T THEY MARRY US???"

[bolverk 29,656]

8 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

Fuck you, Joshy.

 

[bolverk 29,656]

I don't normally post op-eds, but Charles Blow gets it. Again, I'm glad this is all beginning to sink in with the MSM.

Alabama’s I.V.F. Ruling Shows Our Slide Toward Theocracy

If you don’t think this country is sliding toward theocracy, you’re not paying attention.

The drumbeat of incidents moving us ever closer to the seemingly inescapable future is so steady and frequent that we’ve developed outrage fatigue — we’ve grown numb.

For instance, on Tuesday, the Alabama Supreme Court ruled that frozen embryos are children, and that destruction of those embryos, even by accident, is subject to the state’s Wrongful Death of a Minor Act. In his concurring opinion, the chief justice of the court, Tom Parker, wrote, “Even before birth, all human beings bear the image of God, and their lives cannot be destroyed without effacing his glory.”

The ruling could mean less access to reproductive care in Alabama if specialists in the field of in vitro fertilization simply choose to practice in states that don’t threaten their efforts.

There have been cases before in which embryos were destroyed as a result of negligence, but the Alabama decision significantly ups the ante. It essentially turns cryopreservation tanks into frozen nurseries.

The idea is absurd and unscientific. It is instead tied to a religious crusade to downgrade the personhood of women by conferring personhood on frozen embryos.

I called Sean Tipton, the chief advocacy and policy officer at the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, who told me: “One of the points in the abortion debate is, ‘Is it really about abortion or is it about controlling women and controlling sex?’ And this clearly exposes the idea that it’s not just about abortion.” He said, “There is no more pro-life medical treatment available, ever, than in vitro fertilization, and this decision clearly threatens the ability for that to continue.”

Control of women’s bodies is the endgame. And some religious conservatives won’t stop until that goal is achieved. For that reason, intervening victories — like the overturning of Roe v. Wade — will never be seen as enough; they will only intensify a blinding sense of righteousness.

There is an array of reproductive rights cases percolating around the country that could make their way to the Supreme Court — the same court that Donald Trump brags about transforming, having appointed a third of its justices. The legal and political battles over these issues are far from over, and the preservation of women’s remaining rights is far from certain.

The only thing that seems to be temporarily stopping congressional Republicans from pushing for a national abortion ban — after years of arguing that their goal was merely to allow individual states to make their own laws — is that the issue of reproductive choice is an electoral loser for their party.

But now Trump is reportedly talking privately about supporting a national 16-week abortion ban, with some exceptions.

This is what many of his supporters want, and many of them believe he has been singularly chosen by God to advance their theocratic aims. It’s one of the reasons that they overlook Trump’s glaring flaws and the fact that Trump himself is not a particularly religious man.

It’s worth noting that many of the right’s efforts, including on the issue of abortion, are led by men who want births but can’t give birth, reflecting an imbalance between power and expectation that may carry over to a younger generation. A fascinating new report from Pew Research found that although men and women 18 to 34 “are about equally likely to say they want to get married,” 57 percent of young men say they want children one day, compared to just 45 percent of young women.

Abortion is just one front on which this religious fight is being waged. As of last week, the A.C.L.U. was tracking 437 anti-L.G.B.T.Q. bills being considered by state legislatures.

Then there’s the alarming effort by conservative groups to transform and reshape the federal government in ways that curtail American freedoms, but also, according to Politico, to bring Christian nationalist ideas into a second Trump administration.

To those advancing these ideas, the will of God counts more than the will of the American people, even when Americans object or disagree.

Reportedly, one idea among the various proposals is invoking the Insurrection Act on Trump’s first day back in office to facilitate deployment of the military against protesters.

We are perilously close to all this becoming a reality, potentially aided and abetted by disaffected Democratic voters.

I’m talking about many Democrats with single-issue objections to President Biden — whether it’s opposition to his position on the Israel-Hamas war, disappointments about the overall state of the economy or concerns about the president’s age — who haven’t committed to supporting his re-election, who don’t seem to see that in November the country faces one of the most existential electoral decisions it ever has faced.

If these Democrats decide to punish Biden by sitting it out, they could wind up performing one of the greatest acts of self-immolation in recent political history: abandoning an administration committed to the protection of democracy and possibly allowing the ascension of a theocracy intent on destroying the very freedoms that progressives cherish.

Edited February 22 by bolverk

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

Saw a clip of Nikki Haley saying she thinks every embryo is a baby. Saw another clip of her saying she had a child by IVF. She didn’t say what happened to her unused embryos after that pregnancy. Someone should ask her. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I don't normally post op-eds, but Charles Blow gets it. Again, I'm glad this is all beginning to sink in with the MSM.

Alabama’s I.V.F. Ruling Shows Our Slide Toward Theocracy

If you don’t think this country is sliding toward theocracy, you’re not paying attention.

The drumbeat of incidents moving us ever closer to the seemingly inescapable future is so steady and frequent that we’ve developed outrage fatigue — we’ve grown numb.

For instance, on Tuesday, the Alabama Supreme Court ruled that frozen embryos are children, and that destruction of those embryos, even by accident, is subject to the state’s Wrongful Death of a Minor Act. In his concurring opinion, the chief justice of the court, Tom Parker, wrote, “Even before birth, all human beings bear the image of God, and their lives cannot be destroyed without effacing his glory.”

The ruling could mean less access to reproductive care in Alabama if specialists in the field of in vitro fertilization simply choose to practice in states that don’t threaten their efforts.

There have been cases before in which embryos were destroyed as a result of negligence, but the Alabama decision significantly ups the ante. It essentially turns cryopreservation tanks into frozen nurseries.

The idea is absurd and unscientific. It is instead tied to a religious crusade to downgrade the personhood of women by conferring personhood on frozen embryos.

I called Sean Tipton, the chief advocacy and policy officer at the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, who told me: “One of the points in the abortion debate is, ‘Is it really about abortion or is it about controlling women and controlling sex?’ And this clearly exposes the idea that it’s not just about abortion.” He said, “There is no more pro-life medical treatment available, ever, than in vitro fertilization, and this decision clearly threatens the ability for that to continue.”

Control of women’s bodies is the endgame. And some religious conservatives won’t stop until that goal is achieved. For that reason, intervening victories — like the overturning of Roe v. Wade — will never be seen as enough; they will only intensify a blinding sense of righteousness.

There is an array of reproductive rights cases percolating around the country that could make their way to the Supreme Court — the same court that Donald Trump brags about transforming, having appointed a third of its justices. The legal and political battles over these issues are far from over, and the preservation of women’s remaining rights is far from certain.

The only thing that seems to be temporarily stopping congressional Republicans from pushing for a national abortion ban — after years of arguing that their goal was merely to allow individual states to make their own laws — is that the issue of reproductive choice is an electoral loser for their party.

But now Trump is reportedly talking privately about supporting a national 16-week abortion ban, with some exceptions.

This is what many of his supporters want, and many of them believe he has been singularly chosen by God to advance their theocratic aims. It’s one of the reasons that they overlook Trump’s glaring flaws and the fact that Trump himself is not a particularly religious man.

It’s worth noting that many of the right’s efforts, including on the issue of abortion, are led by men who want births but can’t give birth, reflecting an imbalance between power and expectation that may carry over to a younger generation. A fascinating new report from Pew Research found that although men and women 18 to 34 “are about equally likely to say they want to get married,” 57 percent of young men say they want children one day, compared to just 45 percent of young women.

Abortion is just one front on which this religious fight is being waged. As of last week, the A.C.L.U. was tracking 437 anti-L.G.B.T.Q. bills being considered by state legislatures.

Then there’s the alarming effort by conservative groups to transform and reshape the federal government in ways that curtail American freedoms, but also, according to Politico, to bring Christian nationalist ideas into a second Trump administration.

To those advancing these ideas, the will of God counts more than the will of the American people, even when Americans object or disagree.

Reportedly, one idea among the various proposals is invoking the Insurrection Act on Trump’s first day back in office to facilitate deployment of the military against protesters.

We are perilously close to all this becoming a reality, potentially aided and abetted by disaffected Democratic voters.

I’m talking about many Democrats with single-issue objections to President Biden — whether it’s opposition to his position on the Israel-Hamas war, disappointments about the overall state of the economy or concerns about the president’s age — who haven’t committed to supporting his re-election, who don’t seem to see that in November the country faces one of the most existential electoral decisions it ever has faced.

If these Democrats decide to punish Biden by sitting it out, they could wind up performing one of the greatest acts of self-immolation in recent political history: abandoning an administration committed to the protection of democracy and possibly allowing the ascension of a theocracy intent on destroying the very freedoms that progressives cherish.

That link leads to this page in this thread, not to the article you’re quoting. 

[Js1 85,289]

The word "God" appeared 41 times in the IVF decision.

Separation of church and state is long dead. 

[bolverk 29,656]

1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

That link leads to this page in this thread, not to the article you’re quoting. 

Fixed it

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Fixed it

Thanks!

[BevoAbyss 2,058]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Incels are driving it.

With all due respect, there is one group, and one group only "driving" it -- Christians and the highly religious, incel or not. No different than the Bible-thumping Baptists in my Texas high school a few decades ago. 

Christian fundamentalists, evangelicals, creationists (FEC) are on the march, almost completely unchecked, across America. The Christian FEC have taken over the GQP, own the Supreme Court. They a get a free pass from the US media and corporate America, yet still complain that their "freedoms are under attack." 

These are NOT fake Christians or fake faithful, so save the apologia for someone else. The history of Christianity (and religion in general) across the millennia has long been fueled by patriarchy, misogyny, sexism, and oppression of women (not to mention the racism and genocide of native peoples). Add on the anti-science idiocy, and we see a movement taking 21st century society backwards by decades and centuries.

The cultural goal is not merely to end recreational sex. It is to turn the clock back to the Christian view of the good ole days of "faith and virtue" -- to use the law of the state to impose pain, guilt, humiliation, misery, and endless degradation of women as autonomous self-directing humans with equal rights. As was clear in the ancient legal citations in the Alito Dobbs opinion, the goal is to return to medieval times, with a violent fascist theocracy ruling an ever-more barbaric America. 

And, you know what -- the Democrats will not call them out (in any serious way) for fear of losing voters. Or being called "intolerant." 

Imagine that, can't call out the most intolerant people in America for fear of being called intolerant ... and attacking their "freedoms." As they attack the freedoms of everyone else! 

Edited February 22 by BevoAbyss

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1,258]

9 hours ago, TheRealRonWeaver? said:

If an embryo is a human being, does that mean all men are really trans women? And trans women really just de-transitioned?

Does a frozen embryo have the right to be unfrozen?

Do we rescue embryos in fallopian tubes?

*Trans men, sorry. At one point in human embryonic development (all mammalian embryonic development, actually), every embryo is a female.

Edited February 22 by TheRealRonWeaver?
Don't post while high.

[Anastasis 23,463]

Primary sex determination is chromosomal in mammals. The genetic makeup does not change. The presence of a Y chromosome results in phenotypic differentiation as early as 6-8 weeks. Before differentiation it is not really accurate to call the embryo phenotypically female. The phenotypic hallmarks of sex expression (e.g., estrogen producing ovaries or testosterone producing testes) develop later, whether the chromosomes are XX or XY. 

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1,258]

Just now, Anastasis said:

Primary sex determination is chromosomal in mammals. The genetic makeup does not change. The presence of a Y chromosome results in phenotypic differentiation as early as 6-8 weeks. Before differentiation it is not really accurate to call the embryo phenotypically female. The phenotypic hallmarks of sex expression (e.g., estrogen producing ovaries or testosterone producing testes) develop later, whether the chromosomes are XX or XY. 

What is a woman?

[Anastasis 23,463]

2 minutes ago, TheRealRonWeaver? said:

What is a woman?

Are asking me to define in biological terms or psychological terms?

[scottsins 1,966]

Working at a fertility hospital yesterday and today. Doc im working with today says UAB has suspended all fertility shit indefinitely.
 
Says he believes that under Bamas new law, that if a transfer doesnt take or it become a miscarriage, its murder? Is that correct?
 
 
edit: didnt see it posted on previous page

Yep/. Also, you’re leaving out the potential charges for mass murder when fertilized embryos are destroyed. They can’t be frozen forever and currently, a lot of couple donate them for medical/scientific research.

[wildcat09 29,347]

24 minutes ago, TheRealRonWeaver? said:

What is a woman?

Suddenly this is nuanced. Huh, funny that.

[atomheartbevo 89,629]

49 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

With all due respect, there is one group, and one group only "driving" it -- Christians and the highly religious, incel or not.

True - I should have said they are piggybacking on incels.  Without the incels, they have less power. The incels are helping to drive the narrative and trying to make these attitudes seem more widespread than they are.

Buy yeah, the Christian groups have been openly gunning for birth control since the abortion ruling. I’ve posted the links to the various rulings elsewhere in the past, but with abortion falling, other Supreme Court rulings about birth control, gay sex/marriage that relied on each other could fall.

[YGIFS 19,449]

39 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Primary sex determination is chromosomal in mammals. The genetic makeup does not change. The presence of a Y chromosome results in phenotypic differentiation as early as 6-8 weeks. Before differentiation it is not really accurate to call the embryo phenotypically female. The phenotypic hallmarks of sex expression (e.g., estrogen producing ovaries or testosterone producing testes) develop later, whether the chromosomes are XX or XY. 

This is scientifically accurate.  And I appreciate your educated insight.  But we have to admit it's ironic that the party that ignores science 95% of the time, is suddenly a buncha armchair biologists.  Not you, you know your shit...but the rest of 'em for the most part are suddenly delineating what's an embryo and when's an XY expression and what's carries eggs and what doesn't.  

After both of our girls were born, as I'm sure many of you did...we had some of the stem cells stored and shipped to Arizona to be kept secure if they ever need them down the road for medical purposes.  Not sure the science in it, because I'm not a lying asshole politician (well, I'm an asshole anyway).  Cord Blood registry is what the monthly bill says.  An influential Republican here in Texas, who talks a lot when he's been doing drugs, told me they are seriously considering outlawing that type of harvesting and storage.  Not because they don't want future adult versions of current children to have access to medical help...even they are not that cruel.  But because the cord blood/stem cells could be sold/duplicated for other nefarious purposes.  It's a bad strategy because, while many voters are suspect of stem cell research and destroying/selling/copying them (and rightfully so)...the vast majority of folks would view this as way too extreme since most parents of all political stripes these days are opting for programs like this to protect their kids down the road for not-yet-seen medical situations.  It would lose them a shit-ton of votes.  And the reason he's paranoid about bad outcomes and actors and taking it to state leadership is because I put the idea in his head.  And I get to watch the fire from across the street.  You'll see the House bill next session.

[RomaVicta 29,902]

I was thinking the same thing as the first tweet under the video:

One must be careful about generalizing about what meaning people assign to their sexual habits and history. It almost always projects your own experiences and guesses. What this woman wants to do is ghastly and tyrannical probably in the way that degrading sex can be.  Her story may indeed be sad even if her advocacy is horrific.

I'm glad we got past the achingly feminist responses about ugly bitches who can't get laid leading the charge. Maybe get that knee jerk looked into.

Compliments to @BevoAbyss for the better answer to what is behing this:

Quote

With all due respect, there is one group, and one group only "driving" it -- Christians and the highly religious, incel or not. No different than the Bible-thumping Baptists in my Texas high school a few decades ago. 

Christian fundamentalists, evangelicals, creationists (FEC) are on the march, almost completely unchecked, across America. The Christian FEC have taken over the GQP, own the Supreme Court. They a get a free pass from the US media and corporate America, yet still complain that their "freedoms are under attack." 

The woman in the video would gain no traction whatsoever without the above being true.

I had been wondering why women didn't rise up in a tidal swell of outrage over the encroachment of their hard-earned rights. I slapped my forehead for stupidity. "It's God, stupid." If one believes God is directing them, he/she will do anything including bombing abortion clinics or flying into the World Trade Towers.

BevoAbyss goes on:

1 hour ago, BevoAbyss said:

These are NOT fake Christians or fake faithful, so save the apologia for someone else. The history of Christianity (and religion in general) across the millennia has long been fueled by patriarchy, misogyny, sexism, and oppression of women (not to mention the racism and genocide of native peoples). Add on the anti-science idiocy, and we see a movement taking 21st century society backwards by decades and centuries.

The cultural goal is not merely to end recreational sex. It is to turn the clock back to the Christian view of the good ole days of "faith and virtue" -- to use the law of the state to impose pain, guilt, humiliation, misery, and endless degradation of women as autonomous self-directing humans with equal rights. As was clear in the ancient legal citations in the Alito Dobbs opinion, the goal is to return to medieval times, with a violent fascist theocracy ruling an ever-more barbaric America. 

Really great post. Excellent. I see it reflected on facebook in my former high school classmates now aged into rabid if polite piety. A big reunion is coming up. I won't go. I like remembering their better selves of youth. I don't want to stand with people assuming I'm of like mind as they villify immigrants, socialist democrats, and people who "just happen to be black."

Their confidence in assuming all agree with them comes from their religious faith which has metastasized to include their political beliefs. 

Here come the planes.

[Aqua Buddha 14,582]

Let’s be honest here.  Now they’re fucking with the suburban/upscale whites.  They can manage their way around actual abortions in their private lives but birth control and IVF?  Everyone of them either knows someone who did IVF or did it themselves.  Same with birth control.

Suburban white women are the fucking mother lode of demographic groups.  Peel just 5-10% of them off and they’re toast.

 

Find out after fucking around, I guess.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

19 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Let’s be honest here.  Now they’re fucking with the suburban/upscale whites.  They can manage their way around actual abortions in their private lives but birth control and IVF?  Everyone of them either knows someone who did IVF or did it themselves.  Same with birth control.

Suburban white women are the fucking mother lode of demographic groups.  Peel just 5-10% of them off and they’re toast.

It's also why (before BSC Musk ruined twitter) the hashtag RepealTheNineteenth was trending for awhile. The same group(s) don't want women to vote.

Here they turn chalices into swords and helmets

and sell the blood of Christ by the bucketful;

here Cross and Thorns are exchanged for shields and lances,

and even Christ himself is losing patience.

But if he ever dared to show his face,

they'd send his blood spurting up to the stars,

since here at Rome they sell his very hide,

and all the paths of righteousness are barred.

Everything old is new again, as @BevoAbyss points out. The above verse is part of a sonnet written by Michelangelo, irked at Pope Julius II and his war-like ways and the funds necessary to finance them. Some of today's Christians are no less martial, going to war against 'others' in the name of God and patriotism but Julius did have a redeeming feature: he was an ardent supporter of the arts (bullying the same Michelangelo to paint that wonderful ceiling) and education, something that is anathema to the modern religious crowd who would rather usher in a Dark Age instead of lighting a path towards peace and understanding.

[Smax 3,800]

12 hours ago, Art Vandelay said:

You know I see things like this, and I just think....please MAGAs....PLEASE try this.

A few years ago people thought that about Roe v Wade....

[naija 2,854]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Let’s be honest here.  Now they’re fucking with the suburban/upscale whites.  They can manage their way around actual abortions in their private lives but birth control and IVF?  Everyone of them either knows someone who did IVF or did it themselves.  Same with birth control.

Suburban white women are the fucking mother lode of demographic groups.  Peel just 5-10% of them off and they’re toast.

 

Find out after fucking around, I guess.

people have been waiting on suburban White women to save everything for like 3 elections now... their voting records say otherwise

[RomaVicta 29,902]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Let’s be honest here.  Now they’re fucking with the suburban/upscale whites.  They can manage their way around actual abortions in their private lives but birth control and IVF?  Everyone of them either knows someone who did IVF or did it themselves.  Same with birth control.

Suburban white women are the fucking mother lode of demographic groups.  Peel just 5-10% of them off and they’re toast.

 

Find out after fucking around, I guess.

They've been persuaded to believe the gays are grooming their children for lives of depravity.  Transexuals are ruining high school sports. And the bathrooms! Don't get us started on the bathrooms! 

They've been persuaded that their children will be saddened by news of massive human trafficking carried on by the US until the Civil War. They're already the only people being discriminated against in the US. The whole negro thing is passe.

They'll vote for the brave draft dodger who has convinced them we're being invaded by brown people who carry drugs, terrorists, and gangsters in their ragged luggage.

The right finally found the fear to incorporate this hold-out part of the electorate to become adherents to the hate engine.

[Aqua Buddha 14,582]

33 minutes ago, naija said:

people have been waiting on suburban White women to save everything for like 3 elections now... their voting records say otherwise

2022 midterms and every ejection since Dobbs suggests at least some of them have flipped.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

I've been fighting against the idea that all suburban women vote that way, but it's amazing how many women fret over the supposed grooming by people in drag costume reading books to their children but are blind to the numbers of ecclesiastical abuses perpetrated by youth pastors, camp counselors, and the church leaders who provide cover for the abusers and lack of oversight over any of the programs. The queen promoting literacy in a library surrounded by witnesses is around a child/children for thirty minutes only occasionally (if one even chooses to attend) but the youth pastor is spending every week with that child/teen sometimes multiple times a week. Parents are frequently elsewhere participating in other church events, or have dropped the child off at camp, or it's an after school program such as Young Life or something similar. Most of these children attend schools that are predominately higher SES and yet, the idea that immigrant=thug amongst their parents is endemic.

[YGIFS 19,449]

2 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Let’s be honest here.  Now they’re fucking with the suburban/upscale whites.  They can manage their way around actual abortions in their private lives but birth control and IVF?  Everyone of them either knows someone who did IVF or did it themselves.  Same with birth control.

Suburban white women are the fucking mother lode of demographic groups.  Peel just 5-10% of them off and they’re toast.

 

Find out after fucking around, I guess.

 

12 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

2022 midterms and every ejection since Dobbs suggests at least some of them have flipped.

Both valid points.  But neither addresses the elephant in the room.  Why are so many women between 35-55 still breaking for the GOP in state & federal elections?  I just do not fucking get it.  Let me be crystal fucking clear, I am in no way excusing the male vote and judicial control in all this morass.  But there is an emboldened voter bloc for Trump and statewide Republicans, exclusively because of reproductive/birth control rights.  Like that's not a parallel issue, it's why millions of women are turning out to vote to punish other women.  Don't fucking lecture me on the blame men have in this game, we've exhausted and fleshed that out.  But I am not seeing any data or polling or even religious doctrine to explain this away.  It is out fault as men, I get it.  But there are fucking tens of millions of women of non-senior voting ages (under 65) who turn out specifically to vote for candidates who want to hurt women.  WHAT IN THE FLYING FUCK?  You don't owe me an explanation as a man, but you sure as shit better figure it the fuck out because it's a big fucking problem and you fucking know it.

[HenryJames 66,038]

44 minutes ago, naija said:

people have been waiting on suburban White women to save everything for like 3 elections now... 

They're probably still getting ready.

[C-Man 27,194]

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

2 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

They're probably still getting ready.

I shouldn't have laughed but I did. On point.

 

@YGIFS I wish I knew. As a random guess, seems that many women just don't pay enough attention; specifically to the long term consequences and outcomes of voting/not voting/supporting specific policies. You'd think they would, but if they're in the 'burbs, the insulation of 'well that won't affect me' takes root (until it does), or the inertia of actively confronting the discomfort of "I never vote Democrat" and/or "I'm X (insert some identity be it religious, single issue, monetary, subservient) therefore I vote GOP" is too much with whatever else they have going on in their lives. If they attend a church that has gone political, then it's heard from the pulpit. If they belong to a Mom's group, a PTO, a Yoga pod, etc then they have to go against them and the social ramifications if it is GOP leaning. I think it was @pyrohornIII or someone else that recently commented on how difficult and lonely it can be to swim upstream against the gerrymandered and small mindedness of Texas communities and I have to believe that exists in a lot of places, not just Texas and including ones where right leaning candidates are in the minority. For some, it spurs activism but others are going to go to the poll and vote how they vote. The word "feminist" has successfully been turned into a pejorative by those in power even though its meaning is simply that societies prioritize the male view/perspective and that women are treated unjustly in these types of societies and thus advocate for change. The wheel keeps on turning.

[formermav43 4,606]

My wife and I have struggled with “unexplained infertility” for several years. Medically, all the tests say we are both perfectly normal. But she has had multiple miscarriages and difficulty getting pregnant in between. After IUI was unsuccessful, the next step proposed was IVF.

We talked about it and decided not to because of ethical discomfort over 1) potentially needing to terminate if there were multiples and 2) especially the question of what to do with leftover embryos-all of the options (indefinite storage, destruction, adoption) made us uneasy.

I say all that to say I recognize this is very much a grey area. Reasonable people can come to different conclusions about what is right-not everyone shares our perspective and I completely understand why they don’t. And that’s precisely why the state shouldn’t be dictating this.

[YGIFS 19,449]

Mrs. Whiggins----------=That is an accurate and powerful summation.  There is no gender discrepancy in voting short-term.  Conventional and non-convention genders are guilty of just being complacent and not giving a shit and just sitting out an election, or showing up and voting to fix potholes and their faith.  I get it.  And again, no excuse to men.  But there are millions of women who are turning out to hurt other women and I simply do not fucking get it.  Taxes, crime, borders, I get it.  There's a plank there.  But there are so many others female just turning out to rob other women of their health and rights.  It used to be like my mother experienced men in her life telling her how to vote.  But that's bullshit now.  They know the fucking stakes and they're voting for cruelty anyway.  I know there's women shaming women foisted upon them by the media and magazines and the church and all that shit.  But there's 10,000 women sitting in their cars right fucking now about to go early vote and they are making a conscious decision to go inside that library or Randall's and hurt other women.  And I can wrap my mind around a lotta crazy shit, I do it for a living.  But I just can't see how the fuck we got here.  Men are voting to be assholes, got it....message received.  But there are women doing this to other women for some reason and I cannot fucking figure it out.  And I don't want my two little girls to be like that when they grow up.  Vote for lower taxes?  Fine.  Vote for less government regulation or burdensome oversight?  Fine, baby girl.  But they are turning out in droves to just fucking punch the woman next to them in the fucking neck and it's beyond the pale.  Men are enough of a problem without adding Alabama, Abbott, and Trump to the shitstain buffet.

Edited February 22 by YGIFS

[Neonmoon 38,129]

7 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Incels are driving it.  If they can’t get laid, nobody should. 

This is incorrect. 

Incels don't want to stop other people from getting laid, they want to force women to fuck them. 

Right now, women have the choice to say no to them. They want to remove that choice. 

[Captainant 27,638]

6 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

And that’s precisely why the state shouldn’t be dictating this.

It's not so much the state dictating it, as the church dictating and the state executing it.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

9 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Mrs. Whiggins----------=That is an accurate and powerful summation.  There is no gender discrepancy in voting short-term.  Conventional and non-convention genders are guilty of just being complacent and not giving a shit and just sitting out an election, or showing up and voting to fix potholes and their faith.  I get it.  And again, no excuse to men.  But there are millions of women who are turning out to hurt other women and I simply do not fucking get it.  Taxes, crime, borders, I get it.  There's a plank there.  But there are so many others female just turning out to rob other women of their health and rights.  It used to be like my mother experienced men in her life telling her how to vote.  But that's bullshit now.  They know the fucking stakes and they're voting for cruelty anyway.  I know there's women shaming women foisted upon them by the media and magazines and the church and all that shit.  But there's 10,000 women sitting in their cars right fucking now about to go early vote and they are making a conscious decision to go inside that library or Randall's and hurt other women.  And I can wrap my mind around a lotta crazy shit, I do it for a living.  But I just can't see how the fuck we got here.  Men are voting to be assholes, got it....message received.  But there are women doing this to other women for some reason and I cannot fucking figure it out.  And I don't want my two little girls to be like that when they grow up.  Vote for lower taxes?  Fine.  Vote for less government regulation or burdensome oversight?  Fine, baby girl.  But they are turning out in droves to just fucking punch the woman next to them in the fucking neck and it's beyond the pale.  Men are enough of a problem without adding Alabama, Abbott, and Trump to the shitstain buffet.

Perhaps because we are no more a monolithic group than any other. I can think of so many reasons why some women do not view it as 'against' other women as well as why some women do view it thusly and are fine with that.

I could soap box on this for four paragraphs but perhaps not today. It's pretty sad but again, there will always be pushback when marginalized groups advocate for their rights and those who do not wish for certain groups to have agency will never stop trying to remove that agency.

[TheRealRonWeaver? 1,258]

22 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

My wife and I have struggled with “unexplained infertility” for several years. Medically, all the tests say we are both perfectly normal. But she has had multiple miscarriages and difficulty getting pregnant in between. After IUI was unsuccessful, the next step proposed was IVF.

We talked about it and decided not to because of ethical discomfort over 1) potentially needing to terminate if there were multiples and 2) especially the question of what to do with leftover embryos-all of the options (indefinite storage, destruction, adoption) made us uneasy.

I say all that to say I recognize this is very much a grey area. Reasonable people can come to different conclusions about what is right-not everyone shares our perspective and I completely understand why they don’t. And that’s precisely why the state shouldn’t be dictating this.

Absolutely fucking right. The fact that you felt compelled to share this personal story that shouldn't have been anyone else's business, is proof that we're in a fucked up situation.

[Chad Fuck 17,659]

[Dahobbs 17,527]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

2022 midterms and every ejection since Dobbs suggests at least some of them have flipped.

Phrasing?

[YGIFS 19,449]

Again, well put.  There will always be monolithic voting blocs, that's nothing new to our current environs.  And while reproductive rights and birth control and health care bringing out more and more women under 65 to vote in protection of other women, I am noticing a disturbingly large number of women coming out of the wood-work to vote specifically to drop that hammer upon other women to limit their options, care, and coverage.  

As the only son of a single mother with 4 women in my household at all times and now a father of two girls...I am simply fucking stunned that while the men are not taking a day off from hurting women...the grotesque part is how many women are volunteering to work overtime to help.  I see it in many female friends and family.  It's not about domestic policy or military might, it's something altogether more bizarre.  It's not even faith-based, which I can at least grasp from a tradition standpoint.  And I guess I'm just pissed off because I want to help, and I want my daughters to grow up in a different space, and I can handle bad men...it's what I do for a profession.  But it's women punishing women that I just simply cannot get my head around.  My two baby girls...their two grandmas would never let any harm come to them.  But they'll sure as shit vote to make sure they grow up as baby factories.  How in the fuck do people conflate that shit in their heads?  I can't ask because I'd like to have a nice Easter for once.

[atomheartbevo 89,629]

1 hour ago, naija said:

people have been waiting on suburban White women to save everything for like 3 elections now... their voting records say otherwise

Ehh, take away contraception and make them face the reality of more pregnancies and see how that works out.  Plenty of people turn a blind eye to stuff until it directly affects the .

[pyrohornIII 4,814]

You really can't deny that until the past 100 years or so, most women were chattel more than people.  Society cast them in the role of mother/wife and placed their value on how well they functioned in each.   That's a lot of culture that's been accepted norm for a long time to be bucking.  

I think some of these women do it to increase their value to the men in their lives.  It's like that overrides everything else.  

Tie that to the religion that's been drilled into them for generations.   A mighty duo.  But it is interesting to see so many protestants begin to use the argument against recreational sex that the Catholic church has been using for ever against birth control.  

[Brisketexan 105,077]

Just now, pyrohornIII said:

But it is interesting to see so many protestants begin to use the argument against recreational sex that the Catholic church has been using for ever against birth control.  

Here's some bad news for you: even the Catholic Church is not that retrograde.  It actually supports recreational sex 1) so long as it's between married people, and 2) "artificial" birth control is not used.  It's called "Natural Family Planning," and involves tracking the timing of ovulation and fertility.  And it is legit ok to the RCC to use it to avoid becoming pregnant (the quote below is straight from the US conference of Bishops):

Quote

Married couples using NFP to postpone conception abstain from intercourse and genital contact during the fertile phase of the wife's cycle. 

The flip side of that is that it's just fine to NOT abstain from intercourse when you know it will not result in pregnancy....i.e., fucking for fun or recreational sex.

And we already know that the Catholic Church does not count when these folks are talking about what God wants, or religious liberty: see Ken Paxton's recent attack on Catholic charities at the border.  There is a state religion now, in open violation of the 1st Amendment, and hey Catholics, if you think you're included in that "state religion," think again.

[pyrohornIII 4,814]

Thanks for the update.  It's been years (obviously) since I discussed this with any Catholics.  

[mchookem 16,322]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

This is incorrect. 

Incels don't want to stop other people from getting laid, they want to force women to fuck them. 

Right now, women have the choice to say no to them. They want to remove that choice. 

[YGIFS 19,449]

10 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

You really can't deny that until the past 100 years or so, most women were chattel more than people.  Society cast them in the role of mother/wife and placed their value on how well they functioned in each.   That's a lot of culture that's been accepted norm for a long time to be bucking.  

I think some of these women do it to increase their value to the men in their lives.  It's like that overrides everything else.  

Tie that to the religion that's been drilled into them for generations.   A mighty duo.  But it is interesting to see so many protestants begin to use the argument against recreational sex that the Catholic church has been using for ever against birth control.  

 

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Here's some bad news for you: even the Catholic Church is not that retrograde.  It actually supports recreational sex 1) so long as it's between married people, and 2) "artificial" birth control is not used.  It's called "Natural Family Planning," and involves tracking the timing of ovulation and fertility.  And it is legit ok to the RCC to use it to avoid becoming pregnant (the quote below is straight from the US conference of Bishops):

The flip side of that is that it's just fine to NOT abstain from intercourse when you know it will not result in pregnancy....i.e., fucking for fun or recreational sex.

And we already know that the Catholic Church does not count when these folks are talking about what God wants, or religious liberty: see Ken Paxton's recent attack on Catholic charities at the border.  There is a state religion now, in open violation of the 1st Amendment, and hey Catholics, if you think you're included in that "state religion," think again.

It is an absolute hallucination to me to watch/hear in real time the Catholic Church of all places be the voice of reason on birthing and women's rights in this day and age.  When I joined my wife's congregation (I'm Lutheran/Jewish) here at SJN in Austin when we got married, it was every bit as cliche backwards as I feared it would be.  Then we were fortunate to have an enlightened deacons and priests.  And her cousin gets posted as a somewhat progressive priest.  And I meet a bunch of Jesuit academics that kept the light flickering through the darkness of the Church.  And then I see other spiritual communities just regressing into the absolute abyss of repression and hatred.  And I'm thinking "Holy shit, when the fucking Catholic Church is the illumination unto Texas...that's saying something."  

Her church is still stuck in a morass of stubbornness and idiocy, but it at least tries to steer its ship towards the horizon.  

What we see unfolding in GOP politics is much more sad.  It's a last ditch effort to clutch to power.  Their current incarnation is nearing its end.  The older ones must cling to power for power's sake.  And the younger ones have to out-maneuver one another to open up options down the road.  It's sad and terrifying.  The middle aged ones will be fine, they're the ones just kinda doing through the motions to make ends meet and maintain power.  It's the 30 year olds and the 70 year olds that are gonna torch this place to the fucking ground.  That the massive institution of ignorance and bliss---the Roman Catholic Church is changing course faster than the Republican Party because it at least sees compassion and love as virtues in all its forms is very telling and very disturbing.  And for the umpteenth time, my biggest sin---a prize lack of imagination.  

[Francisco 2.0 32,389]

Well, that's a different way to look at it

 

 

 

 

[Aqua Buddha 14,582]

I’m 50 and thank fucking god I was young in the 90’s and not now.

Jesus.