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Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery

bad_teammate

By bad_teammate
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Bama Chick
Bama Chick

No. Fuck off with that. Not every abortion is about trauma and tragedy and using that framing plays into the christofascist’s hands. Women are humans. Humans have bodily autonomy. Ergo, women have b

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

I do love this argument. I really do. It’s as convenient a way to label yourself a drooling moron as exists, outside of towing around a giant neon “I’M A MORON” sign. No, they didn’t teach us that

hayden_horn
hayden_horn

of course you do. thing is, i would support that. if they choose that. and the real thing is, i'm actually pro life. both my sons were very premature, and had they been born in the 80s, they

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Voldemort86

Voldemort86 2259

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5 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

 

I was hoping we would use the abortion ballot amendment, which the campaign has said they have more than enough signatures to get on the ballot this year, to fix this problem in Arizona. 
 

Let it juice turn out in the election.

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Gap03

Gap03 3308

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8 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Holy shit. I'm not a lawyer but I have a new hero and her name is Elizabeth Prelogar.  
 

Gaaawd, I hate motherfuckers like Alito who drop the "I want a simple, clear-cut answer" to complicated issues like this. He's obviously equipped to deal with nuance, and she had just answered the question as clearly as it could be answered.  It seems like he was looking for a "well, an abortion might be warranted in some limited mental health emergencies " so he (or Fox News) could scream, "Aha!! Mental health isn't 'real' and all those liberal doctors are gonna be using this as a basis for terminating pregnancies at 37 weeks!! SLiPpeRY SlOPe!1!!"  

 

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elfenix

elfenix 34262

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2 hours ago, Gap03 said:

"Aha!! Mental health isn't 'real' and all those liberal doctors are gonna be using this as a basis for terminating pregnancies at 37 weeks!! SLiPpeRY SlOPe!1!!"  

they really don't trust doctors. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105151

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6 hours ago, Gap03 said:

Gaaawd, I hate motherfuckers like Alito who drop the "I want a simple, clear-cut answer" to complicated issues like this. He's obviously equipped to deal with nuance, and she had just answered the question as clearly as it could be answered.  It seems like he was looking for a "well, an abortion might be warranted in some limited mental health emergencies " so he (or Fox News) could scream, "Aha!! Mental health isn't 'real' and all those liberal doctors are gonna be using this as a basis for terminating pregnancies at 37 weeks!! SLiPpeRY SlOPe!1!!"  

 

Edith Jones (5th cir) pulled that shit on me once.  I knew where she was TRYING to go.  But I made her ask the complete question, which when asked in full form, was stupid, and plainly so.  She gave an exasperated sigh, and said "what I'm ASKING is....."  And then I answered "in that case, no."  And then moved on to my next issue.  

I didn't exactly lose her -- she was plainly against my client from the start.  But I could at least avoid giving her the satisfaction of thinking she succeeded with a clever gotcha.

These old dinosaur fake "conservative" judges are all the fucking same. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28783

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“Keep your Rosaries off my ovaries.”

Protest sign I just saw on the news about Florida’s 6-week ban about to go into effect. I thought that was pretty clever. Maybe I’m out of the loop but that was new to me. 

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South Austin

South Austin 52515

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On 4/25/2024 at 2:22 PM, Brisketexan said:

Edith Jones (5th cir) pulled that shit on me once.  I knew where she was TRYING to go.  But I made her ask the complete question, which when asked in full form, was stupid, and plainly so.  She gave an exasperated sigh, and said "what I'm ASKING is....."  And then I answered "in that case, no."  And then moved on to my next issue.  

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HenryJames

HenryJames 66079

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2024/05/03/texas-abortion-investigations/

Texas man files legal action to probe ex-partner’s out-of-state abortion

The previously unreported petition reflects a potential new antiabortion strategy to block women from ending their pregnancies in states where abortion is legal.

Spoiler

Texas man files legal action to probe ex-partner’s out-of-state abortion

The previously unreported petition reflects a potential new antiabortion strategy to block women from ending their pregnancies in states where abortion is legal.

 
Police watch as antiabortion advocates take part in a demonstration outside the Texas Capitol in Austin on Jan. 27. (Suzanne Cordeiro/AFP/Getty Images)

As soon as Collin Davis found out his ex-partner was planning to travel to Colorado to have an abortion in late February, the Texas man retained a high-powered antiabortion attorney — who court records show immediately issued a legal threat.

If the woman proceeded with the abortion, even in a state where the procedure remains legal, Davis would seek a full investigation into the circumstances surrounding the abortion and “pursue wrongful-death claims against anyone involved in the killing of his unborn child,” the lawyer wrote in a letter, according to records.

Now, Davis has disclosed his former partner’s abortion to a state district court in Texas, asking for the power to investigate what his lawyer characterizes as potentially illegal activity in a state where almost all abortions are banned.

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The previously unreported petition was submitted under an unusual legal mechanism often used in Texas to investigate suspected illegal actions before a lawsuit is filed. The petition claims Davis could sue either under the state’s wrongful-death statute or the novel Texas law known as Senate Bill 8 that allows private citizens to file suit against anyone who “aids or abets” an illegal abortion.

The decision to target an abortion that occurred outside of Texas represents a potential new strategy by antiabortion activists to achieve a goal many in the movement have been working toward since Roe v. Wade was overturned: stopping women from traveling out of state to end their pregnancies. Crossing state lines for abortion care remains legal nationwide.

The case also illustrates the role that men who disapprove of their partners’ decisions could play in surfacing future cases that may violate abortion bans — either by filing their own civil lawsuits or by reporting the abortions to law enforcement.

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Under Texas law, performing an abortion is a crime punishable by up to a lifetime in prison and up to $100,000 in civil penalties. Women seeking abortions cannot be charged under the state’s abortion restrictions, but the laws target anyone who performs or helps to facilitate an illegal abortion, including those who help distribute abortion pills.

Davis’s petition — filed under Texas’s Rule 202 by Jonathan Mitchell, a prominent antiabortion attorney known for devising new and aggressive legal strategies to crack down on abortion — follows a lawsuit filed last spring by another Texas man, Marcus Silva, who is attempting to sue three women who allegedly helped his ex-wife obtain abortion pills.

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“Mr. Davis is considering whether to sue individuals and organizations that participated in the murder of his unborn child,” Mitchell, widely known as the architect of Senate Bill 8, wrote in Davis’s complaint in March.

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Davis’s petition includes no evidence of illegal activity. Davis’s former partner ultimately obtained her abortion in Colorado, Davis claims in the court documents. Mitchell suggests in the petition that people who helped her procure the abortion could be found liable.

Antiabortion advocates have tried various tactics to dissuade women from traveling out of state for abortions. Idaho has passed a law making it illegal for someone to help a minor leave the state for an abortion without parental consent — which is currently blocked by the courts — and Tennessee is pursuing similar restrictions. Several Texas cities and counties have passed local ordinances attempting to stop women seeking abortions from using key portions of high-traffic highways.

Mitchell said in a statement that abortions that occur outside Texas can be targets for civil litigation.

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“Fathers of aborted fetuses can sue for wrongful death in states with abortion bans, even if the abortion occurs out-of-state,” he wrote. “They can sue anyone who paid for the abortion, anyone who aided or abetted the travel, and anyone involved in the manufacture or distribution of abortion drugs.”

Molly Duane, a senior staff attorney with the Center for Reproductive Rights, described Mitchell’s statement and general approach as misleading “fearmongering.”

“People need to understand that it is not a crime to leave Texas or any other state in the country for an abortion,” said Duane, who is working with lawyers from the firm Arnold & Porter to represent the woman and others targeted in the Davis case. “I don’t want people to be intimidated, but they should be outraged and alarmed.”

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Duane described the woman’s relationship with Davis as “toxic and harmful.”

Davis — who claims in the petition to have helped conceive what he calls his “unborn child” — did not respond to requests for comment. Mitchell declined to comment on Duane’s description of the relationship.

Abortion rights advocates say these types of legal actions amount to “vigilante justice” designed to intimidate people who have done nothing wrong. Duane and other lawyers representing the woman asked the court to redact the names of those involved from the public court filings, out of a concern for their privacy and safety.

The judge agreed to seal the original petition with the identifying information.

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“The document at issue contains confidential and sensitive information including the Respondents’ full names ... and sensitive allegations about health care that the Respondents have a substantial interest in keeping confidential,” the judge wrote in an order signed Wednesday.

Over the past two years, many antiabortion activists have grown frustrated by what they see as a lack of enforcement of abortion bans — particularly as abortion pills become more widely available in antiabortion states because of growing online and community-based pill networks.

Some antiabortion advocates are searching for a way to crack down.

“You have laws being ignored systematically — so what are we going to do about it?” said John Seago, president of Texas Right to Life, the state’s largest antiabortion group. The pill networks, he added, “can and should be prosecuted.”

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Several district attorneys in conservative areas told The Post that abortion laws are difficult to enforce in practice, largely because they have no clear way to find out about these cases.

“First you would have to have some sort of complaining party … then law enforcement would have to do a full investigation,” said Kent Volkmer, county attorney for Pinal County in Arizona, where the Republican-led legislature has voted to repeal an 1864 abortion law. “I think it’s extremely unlikely that an abortion-related criminal charge would ever be submitted to our office.”

If one of these cases did surface, Volkmer said, it would probably be reported by an employee of a doctor’s office who was aware of the abortion — or by the “purported father.”

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Volkmer added that, because of his office’s policy to only prosecute cases with a reasonable likelihood of conviction, he would only anticipate prosecuting what he characterized as an “extreme” situation, such as an abortion that occurred late in the third trimester.

In the Davis case, Mitchell is attempting to depose the woman who had the abortion, along with several other people he writes may be “complicit” in the abortion. If deposed, they would be asked about others involved in the abortion, including any abortion funds or any other entities that provided financial support, according to court records. They would also have to provide all documentation relevant to the abortion.

“Mr. Davis expects to be able to better evaluate the prospects for legal success after deposing [the people listed], and discovering the identity of their co-conspirators and accomplices,” Mitchell wrote in the complaint, which he filed on March 22.

Davis is now awaiting a decision from the state district court.

While the vast majority of Texas abortion funds stopped providing funding for out-of-state abortions after Roe was overturned — concerned for their legal risk amid vague laws they worried might allow prosecutors to target them — many resumed operations in the spring of 2023, reassured by a court ruling that has temporarily blocked some prosecutors from going after people who help Texans obtain abortions across state lines.

“I want people to know we don’t think there’s anything illegal about helping someone leave the state for an abortion,” said Duane, with the Center for Reproductive Rights. “These are Jonathan Mitchell … tactics to discourage people.”

 

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27565

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Friend’s son knocked his gf up. They had to take them to fucking Kansas to get the abortion pill. Staunch Republicans now straight ticket Dem voters come October 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89683

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16 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Friend’s son knocked his gf up. They had to take them to fucking Kansas to get the abortion pill. Staunch Republicans now straight ticket Dem voters come October 

They couldn’t have been too staunch if they weren’t saving their virginities and doing it in the pooper instead.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45691

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23 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Friend’s son knocked his gf up. They had to take them to fucking Kansas to get the abortion pill. Staunch Republicans now straight ticket Dem voters come October 

Leopards eating faces?  Or normal humans?

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45963

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10 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

“Leaving statutory rape legal?!”

Essentially.  I'm from Missouri (literally), so take that as an example:  a 16-YO can legally get married with parental consent, but the age of consent for sex is 17.

The only way around it would be if the statuatory rape law carved out an exception for someone who is married (which it may do).

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585

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The AAMC analysis found that the number of applicants to OB-GYN residency programs in abortion-ban states dropped by 6.7%, compared with a 0.4% increase in states where abortion remains legal. For internal medicine, the drop observed in abortion-ban states was over five times as much as in states where abortion is legal.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/05/09/1250057657/medical-residents-starting-avoid-states-abortion-bans

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hornmpa96

hornmpa96 2618

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13 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

What does it take to get a constitutional amendment on the ballot in Texas?

2/3 vote in the Texas House and Senate are  required to send an amendment to Texas voters.

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'stache

'stache 21817

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So this issue has recently become very personal to me. Let’s just say I can now testify from personal experience that, as I’ve long believed, there are a multitude of situations in which “abortion care” (in quotes to ensure a very broad interpretation) becomes a true medical necessity, and this renewed wave of faux religious bullshit has made true medical needs excruciatingly difficult and traumatic to obtain, for no other reason than people’s narcissism and refusal to accept that the issue is way, way broader than terminating a fetus as a form of birth control. Not sure if and when I’ll be ready to talk in more details here, but there are situations that these zealots either refuse to believe exist, or know exist and still support complete bans on “abortion care” (again broadly quoted), the latter of which are truly monstrous people if they know and still support putting women through literal nightmarish experiences.

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19450

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28 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

So what kind of symbol are the Republicans proposing that pregnant women be forced to pin to their clothes before they are sent off to the birthing camps

You know, years ago when we had our second miscarriage in the second trimester and the ensuing D&C which would now be prohibited by Texas low.....I would have thought your post to be insane.  You and I are sarcastic, albeit somewhat intelligent, assholes.  But levity aside, there isn't much left on this timeline but for expectant mothers to undergo what you just remarked off-hand, precisely.  

I posted a few years ago that my wife's OBGYN made a discrete remark to us since he performed two D&C's after miscarriages that in the patient notes I insisted they were written up as medically necessary as we were older and every setback was another 6-12 months we could not afford biologically.  And he remarked at a routine post-delivery exam that he was preparing his team to update all the patient records to reflect the medical necessity of any D&C procedures.  And he's a very level-headed guy, never seen him up or down for even a minute...a true pro.  And my wife thought, on the way home, he was being mellow-dramatic.  That all the women's charts "speak for themselves as warranted, medically."  He saw this coming even before I did and I predict worst outcomes for a living.  Once again, our prize lack of imagination.  

3 years ago?  No abortions for rape & incest victims?  INSANE LOBO, NO WAY!

2 years ago?  No abortions for risk to the mother's ability to have a viable pregnancy later in life?  INSANE LOBO, NO WAY! 

1 year ago?  Interstate travel bans on females seeking medical care over borders being criminalized?  INSANE LOBO, NO WAY!

Now?  What will likely come to fruition in some form or fashion in some states, a registry of pregnant women to track their status, and not from a medical perspective.  INSANE LOBO, NO WAY.  

This has all happened, in real life.  In this country.  On our watch.  And if you think is crazy, see what happens next.  When these "Moms for Abbott" and "Momma MAGAs" hold their daughters' hands as they bleed out from complications, they will only have themselves to blame.  And if they're any kind of decent mother themselves, they'll quietly walk out to the ER parking lot and swallow a round.  This whole thing is gonna get a fuck-ton more cruel before it gets better.  And our girls will be paying the price for our apathy.  

 

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troph

troph 24810

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The thing is if you’ve had any experience with the church you know, they won’t let their daughters bleed out to support the law. publicly they say one thing privately they will do another. There are going to be plenty of impromptu mountain or pacific vacations among the churched (let’s be real that’s who is behind these insane positions) in the coming years. The only people who will be forced to suffer are the poor, the rest will do what they need to do and some will do it with the utmost and impressive levels of hypocrisy. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28783

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1 minute ago, troph said:

The thing is if you’ve had any experience with the church you know, they won’t let their daughters bleed out to support the law. publicly they say one thing privately they will do another. There are going to be plenty of impromptu mountain or pacific vacations among the churched (let’s be real that’s who is behind these insane positions) in the coming years. The only people who will be forced to suffer are the poor, the rest will do what they need to do and some will do it with the utmost and impressive levels of hypocrisy. 

“We can’t ruin three lives.”

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YGIFS

YGIFS 19450

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19 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

“We can’t ruin three lives.”

Why ruin three when you can ruin 3 million?  -Somebody in history, probably.  

Again, it mostly men's fault.  But the women voters empowering this kinda shit while they leave every one of their sisters need to be held to account.  And in some ways, are far more cruel than the males who carry out these las because they've been in rough spots before and are now taking it out on the opposite group they should be taking it out on.  

There is zealot-fueled single-issue voting and then there is this, tactical and measured cruelty.  All of us, as parents of girls, are to blame...but I believe there is a deserved special rung in hell for women doing this to one another considering...

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6169

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13 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

We are going to kill ourselves and it will be exactly what we deserve.

I hope not, but I am hopeful that by the time any of this happens that I will have long since left the US. Crazy people are everywhere, but man ours really go over the top with it to hurt others.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89683

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24 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

I hope not, but I am hopeful that by the time any of this happens that I will have long since left the US. Crazy people are everywhere, but man ours really go over the top with it to hurt others.

It’s weird how so many people in this country want to see their fellow Americans suffer,  I wonder if there’s something in the genes of those whose ancestors came out of Europe.  Obviously many of our ancestors bailed on Europe for reasons other than finding their fortunes, like maybe they weren’t getting along with the people around them.

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45691

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6 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

It’s weird how so many people in this country want to see their fellow Americans suffer,  I wonder if there’s something in the genes of those whose ancestors came out of Europe.  Obviously many of our ancestors bailed on Europe for reasons other than finding their fortunes, like maybe they weren’t getting along with the people around them.

Well, the French and English have had like 15 wars. 

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