Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery

[Anastasis 23484]

As stated in the link: 

But when Dr. Andrew Ryan Davis, the obstetrician on duty, finally arrived, he said it was the hospital’s “routine” to give a drug called misoprostol to help the body pass the tissue, Hope recalled. Hope trusted the doctor. Porsha took the pills, according to records, and the bleeding continued.

 

[wildcat09 29395]

13 hours ago, Anastasis said:

You'd be better off @'ing the hospital administrators. 

The Texas law certainly has flaws. Shit, I don't think it's an issue that is best addressed through the legal system at all.

But there is a common thread in most of these (extremely rare, but egregious) situations. The hospital systems are creating policies and protocols that are wrongheaded.

What a coincidence that every hospital that actually looks at the law and tries to figure out how it applies to them comes to a different conclusion than you. They should all hire you as a consultant, obviously, to tell them how they can comply with the law while providing necessary care.

[Anastasis 23484]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

What a coincidence that every hospital that actually looks at the law and tries to figure out how it applies to them comes to a different conclusion than you. They should all hire you as a consultant, obviously, to tell them how they can comply with the law while providing necessary care.

Maybe they should. I'd tell them to provide any needed miscarriage management care as directed by the treating OBGYN. The law draws no distinction between misoprostol and D&C wrt elective abortions, so administering misoprostol for miscarriage management and blaming the Texas abortion law for not progressing to D&C when medically warranted just doesn't logically hold together. Miscarriage management is explicitly excluded from the definition of abortion in the statute. If the law needs clarification such that facilities and providers are not hesitant to use D&C when medically necessary, TMA should work with legislators to fix that. 

[Captainant 27784]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Maybe they should. I'd tell them to provide any needed miscarriage management care as directed by the treating OBGYN. The law draws no distinction between misoprostol and D&C wrt elective abortions, so administering misoprostol for miscarriage management and blaming the Texas abortion law for not progressing to D&C when medically warranted just doesn't logically hold together. Miscarriage management is explicitly excluded from the definition of abortion in the statute. If the law needs clarification such that facilities and providers are not hesitant to use D&C when medically necessary, TMA should work with legislators to fix that. 

It's almost like the cruelty towards women is a feature and not a bug, or something.

[jimmyjazz 46142]

It's almost as if there aren't thousands of medical practioners in Texas who disagree with @Anastasis's viewpoint.

[Anastasis 23484]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

It's almost as if there aren't thousands of medical practioners in Texas who disagree with @Anastasis's viewpoint.

If there is anything in that post that they disagree with, they can certainly post it and we can discuss it. 

[jimmyjazz 46142]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

If there is anything in that post that they disagree with, they can certainly post it and we can discuss it. 

I think they've been pretty adamant that they can't take the risk.

[Gap03 3325]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

I think they've been pretty adamant that they can't take the risk.

I mean, it's just gambling with your medical license and freedom on a law written and likely to be interpreted by the same group of religious zealots - I'm sure the odds are in the doctors' favor, right?  Ana is one disingenuous bastard if he says he'd have the balls to get anywhere near the fucking line here in Texas, which, as others have pointed out, is entirely by design.  All in the name of plausible deniability for the Christian Taliban when it comes to the entirely foreseeable results of their POS law.

[Anastasis 23484]

21 minutes ago, Gap03 said:

Ana is one disingenuous bastard if he says he'd have the balls to get anywhere near the fucking line here in Texas

I honestly don't think that miscarriage management should be a gray area. If it is, the legislation and related guidance from TMB needs to be even more explicit. The far greater gray areas that are problematic in the law imo are the areas related to elective abortions in cases where severe fetal complications exist.  

[Brisketexan 105355]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I honestly don't think that miscarriage management should be a gray area.

Yet it is.

100% intentionally.

You're not obtuse, you're just an asshole.  Wait.....you're probably both.

[Anastasis 23484]

37 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yet it is.

Not really in the particular case we are discussing. You can't simultaneously argue that giving misoprostol is acceptable under the law and that doing D&C is not. They are treated the exact same by the statute. If a physician has met the legal and medical thresholds to administer misoprostol in the course of miscarriage management, they've met (at least the legal) threshold to do a D&C. 

Edited 19 hours ago by Anastasis

[royiv 9361]

18 hours ago, Anastasis said:

You'd be better off @'ing the hospital administrators. 

The Texas law certainly has flaws. Shit, I don't think it's an issue that is best addressed through the legal system at all.

But there is a common thread in most of these (extremely rare, but egregious) situations. The hospital systems are creating policies and protocols that are wrongheaded.

Hospital administrators aren’t coming up with policies on their own. They are consulting lawyers who have studied the law and they are the ones drafting policies aimed at keeping the hospital on the right side of the law.

[jimmyjazz 46142]

13 hours ago, royiv said:

Hospital administrators aren’t coming up with policies on their own. They are consulting lawyers who have studied the law and they are the ones drafting policies aimed at keeping the hospital on the right side of the law.

Yup.  By and large medical professionals want to do anything and everything they can to help a patient.  Doctors take an oath towards that end.  For them to refuse potentially life-saving services because to do otherwise exposes them to loss of license and even criminal prosecution is not only sad but terrifying.  Here we are.

But hey, it's all a misunderstanding of the law.

[tigol 2404]

16 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Not really in the particular case we are discussing. You can't simultaneously argue that giving misoprostol is acceptable under the law and that doing D&C is not. They are treated the exact same by the statute. If a physician has met the legal and medical thresholds to administer misoprostol in the course of miscarriage management, they've met (at least the legal) threshold to do a D&C. 

Fuck you.  No one has time for these fucking arguments.  People are dying.  There's no rational reason for this shitshow.

That said, I don't want your life to hang in the balance while some lawyers figure out how the hospital won't get into legal trouble for helping you survive.  I don't want that for anyone, but that's not something you have to consider.  But, I'm sure the ledge will clarify in time for you to stop bleeding out you obtuse asshole.

[Captainant 27784]

15 minutes ago, tigol said:

Fuck you.  No one has time for these fucking arguments.  People are dying.  There's no rational reason for this shitshow.

That said, I don't want your life to hang in the balance while some lawyers figure out how the hospital won't get into legal trouble for helping you survive.  I don't want that for anyone, but that's not something you have to consider.  But, I'm sure the ledge will clarify in time for you to stop bleeding out you obtuse asshole.

You're talking to someone who's entire livelihood is standing between patients and doctors and charging a handling fee to let them do medicine. He doesn't give a fuck about health outcomes, just that he gets a piece and can maintain his cognitive dissonance

[Anastasis 23484]

And off to delusional ad hominem land we go. Good talk y'all. Thanks for the @ Ant.