Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery

[Biff Tannen 46197]

Just now, Anastasis said:

I am under no delusion that people on any side of the politics of the situation really want to do anything meaningful wrt abortion. 

Define meaningful.  What are your goals?  If you were dictator of course. I know mine. 

[workswithseed 2204]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

He’s on drugs man. 

I don't think I want to ever get my ADHD meds again. I don't wanna be on uppas, ma.

[Biff Tannen 46197]

Just now, workswithseed said:

I don't think I want to ever get my ADHD meds again. I don't wanna be on uppas, ma.

I understood that reference. Well done. 

[Anastasis 23719]

6 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

 What are your goals?  If you were dictator of course. I know mine. 

Find the places where there is broad alignment and try to find common ground. Seems like trying to engage the people using abortion as a routine method of birth control is a reasonable place to start.    

[washparkhorn 9974]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Find the places where there is broad alignment and try to find common ground. Seems like trying to engage the people using abortion as a routine method of birth control is a reasonable place to start.    

Speed up the science or the collapse takes hold. 

We live in Medieval Times. 

[Anastasis 23719]

1 minute ago, washparkhorn said:

We live in Medieval Times. 

That's the place off 35 in Dallas? Seems even worse than that.  I find it hard to imagine something worse than that. 

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2692]

10 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I am under no delusion that people on any side of the politics of the situation really want to do anything meaningful wrt abortion. 

Taking a step back, I find it really gross how the actualities of this issue are, once again, being discussed over women's heads by people for whom it's really all academic. I could go into my own personal experience of shitty choices foisted upon me when I was young, but what's the fucking point? People for whom this is black and white, rather than a sad, complicated shades-of-grey issue soaked in a history of racial and gender inequity, will never care. 

When people in such large numbers disagree, and some or many of those people on both sides can be characterized as rational, the default should be that the individual with personal autonomy gets to choose.  

[workswithseed 2204]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

That's the place off 35 in Dallas? Seems even worse than that.  I find it hard to imagine something worse than that. 

Shit was great when I was 10, but the root beer was flat.

[atomheartbevo 90669]

6 hours ago, butthurt said:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/3/22656196/godaddy-texas-right-for-life-abortion-whistleblowing-site

I'm surprised.  GoDaddy's founder and CEO is a Trumpkin.

[Gengs1 2583]

This is pretty great news that it passed (I don’t agree with it at all) but maybe people will realize elections have consequences and actually go out and vote. Keep on voting for Rs and this is what you get.

it’s screws over a lot of women but hey, go out there and vote every cycle and get your friends and family to vote as well….

 

I mean if your really surprised this law passed you haven’t watched politics for the last 30 years and the crazy christians who support it 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Gengs1

[staboner 5098]

lets see how Bill feels about this.

and of course there are a million ways to slice this terrible subject. I most definitely love this perspective from him here, not as an excuse for being pro choice, but more as a reminder to appreciate life a bit more and all the fuckups that come with it

you homies be cool now. 

 

[Sawbonz 28243]

 

[workswithseed 2204]

https://katu.com/news/local/portland-city-council-to-consider-ban-on-goods-services-from-texas

 

[WhatTheBuck 28938]

9 hours ago, tigol said:

I realize this is not the AIDS thread, but I saw this and thought of our current situation.  Cruelty is the point.  As a female, I don't think I've ever felt more shame.  I was a kid in the 80's, but there is no way I could have understood the heartless shitbaggery of the time.  We've surpassed this.  Congrats.  If that doesn't make sense, ignore it.  I'm pissed off and a bit speechless.

 

 

Reagan refused to even utter the word AIDS until it killed Rock Hudson.

If you’re too young to remember, search out the homophobic crap Anita Bryant used to spew. 

[WhatTheBuck 28938]

8 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

Dominion Theology - No Separation of Church and State:

Though it’s seldom mentioned by name, it’s one of the major forces in Texas politics today: dominion theology, or dominionism. What began as a fringe evangelical sect in the 1970s has seen its influence mushroom — so much so that sociologist Sara Diamond has called dominionism “the central unifying ideology for the Christian Right.” (Italics hers.) That’s especially true here in Texas, where dominionist beliefs have, over the last decade, become part and parcel of right-wing politics at the highest levels of government.

So, what is it? Dominionism fundamentally opposes America’s venerable tradition of church-state separation — in fact, dominionists deny the Founders ever intended that separation in the first place. According to Frederick Clarkson, senior fellow for religious liberty at the non-profit social justice think tank Political Research Associates, dominionists believe that Christians “have a biblical mandate to control all earthly institutions — including government — until the second coming of Jesus.” And that should worry all Texans — Christians and non-Christians alike.

  Reveal hidden contents

Dominionism comes in “soft” and “hard” varieties. “Hard” dominionism (sometimes called Christian Reconstructionism), as Clarkson describes it, explicitly seeks to replace secular government, and the U.S. Constitution, with a system based on Old Testament law.

The father of hard dominionism, the late Presbyterian theologian R.J. Rushdoony, called for his followers to “take back government … and put it in the hands of Christians.”

Rushdoony’s legacy has been carried on by his son-in-law, Tyler-based economist Gary North, an unapologetic theocrat who in 1982 called for Christians to “get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political, and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God.” (North, founder of the Institute for Christian Economics, did not respond to my request for comment.)

PERHAPS THE MOST POWERFUL DOMINIONIST IN TEXAS POLITICS IS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR DAN PATRICK.  PATRICK SAID THAT ELECTED OFFICIALS MUST LOOK TO SCRIPTURE WHEN THEY MAKE POLICY, “BECAUSE EVERY PROBLEM WE HAVE IN AMERICA HAS A SOLUTION IN THE BIBLE.”

 

Top Texas political figures have had links to dominionism for years. In 2011, the Observer covered then-Governor Rick Perry’s ties to a branch of the movement, the New Apostolic Reformation. Since then, the relationship between dominionism and right-wing politics has become even cozier.

Case in point: Ted Cruz. Although Cruz is too politically savvy to openly endorse dominionism, key figures on his team are explicit dominionists.

The most important may be his father, evangelist Rafael Cruz, a frequent surrogate for Cruz on the political stage.

Cruz père espouses Seven Mountains Dominionism, which holds that Christians must take control of seven “mountains,” or areas of life: family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business and government. Speaking at the Texas GOP Convention in Dallas in May, Rafael Cruz claimed that God inspired the Founders to produce the Constitution, and declared that “biblical values” have made America the greatest country on earth. He encouraged Christian pastors to run for public office at every level, and called upon all Christians to exercise their “sacred responsibility” to vote for candidates who uphold biblical values.

As for what Thomas Jefferson famously called America’s “wall of separation between Church & State,” Cruz claimed in a 2016 sermon that it was meant to be a “one-way wall” — preventing government from interfering in religion but allowing the Church to exercise dominion over government. (I have to wonder whether a “one-way wall” is really a wall at all.…)

From 2016 - read it all. https://www.texasobserver.org/dominion-theology/

 

Talibaptists. 

[Bojack 2092]

I don't know if the bill was ever signed by the governor or if it got struck down by courts immediately, but the Louisiana legislature passed a law back in 1990 that lowered the penalty for beating a person that was desecrating an American flag to a $25 maximum fine.  It was never enacted.  This Texas abortion law reminds me of that but this is so much worse.  Flag burning was never really an issue that mattered to anyone.  It was just an attempt to make a culture wars wedge issue.  Our abortion law has far reaching effects and is the law today because the Supreme Court chose not to make a ruling.  Our law doesn't just minimize the penalty for interfering in the exercise of someone else's rights.  It rewards and encourages it.  Plus, that 1990 bill was passed by those Southern Comfort assholes we used to laugh at, the same people that almost elected David Duke.  This shit is the law in Texas.  It's amazing how far we've fallen.  

 https://apnews.com/article/d0d556c5d4254d1db5984ca2266d3c9e

[brakeman 28762]

[Biff Tannen 46197]

24 minutes ago, brakeman said:

This really does sum it up. This is one million percent truth and the only reason people pretend to care about this bullshit. 

[WhatTheBuck 28938]

12 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This really does sum it up. This is one million percent truth and the only reason people pretend to care about this bullshit. 

Damn straight. 

[hayden_horn 11402]

13 hours ago, workswithseed said:

I like Sack's idea of giving women IUDs if they want 

of course you do.

thing is, i would support that. if they choose that.

and the real thing is, i'm actually pro life. both my sons were very premature, and had they been born in the 80s, they probably would not have made it.

but this pro life type of path that republicans are going down makes no fucking sense at all, if the goal was really about reducing unwanted pregnancies. but that's not the point. the point is the cruelty.

instead of funding proper sex education, providing free healthcare and free contraception, funding adoption agencies and fucking fixing our broken foster system, providing free childcare to poor folks, etc, it's all really mostly about slut shaming.

and that's the point.

and that's why i quoted your post, not to single you out necessarily, but republicans make it all about the woman. the man part of the equation is almost never mentioned. and that is part of the white dude privilege i've learned to approach over the past couple years and try to put myself in other people's perspectives the best i can do. obviously, i'll never know what it's like being a woman, but i'm understanding that all abortion blame seems to be pointing fingers at women. women should be on the pill, women should get a device imp0lanted in their vaginas, etc. what about helping the women, and not ignoring the biological imperative that fucking each other is the natural order of things from puberty on? you can only delay the inevitable for so long. ignoring that reality is stupid.

[JimmyJames 12271]

13 hours ago, workswithseed said:

I like Sack's idea of giving women IUDs if they want 

Sack for governor? 
 

He’s tan, he’s rested, he’s ready! The Sack in 2022!

[Bama Chick 28596]

Why should women have to get copper wires implanted in their uterus?

One woman can only have one pregnancy per year at most.

One man can impregnate hundreds of women per year.

Vasectomies can be given to males when they hit puberty and then reversed when they get married and are determined to be capable of being a father.

Oh. Does that sound barbaric and draconian? Does the idea of a government too intertwined with religion making judgements on an individual citizen’s sex life give you pause?

[Willfully Horn 8281]

19 hours ago, workswithseed said:

I bet lots of Catholics are with this. 

I’ll take that bet. Most Catholics are for ending abortion, yes even in cases of rapes and incest, but the vast majority of Catholics, including the Vatican, will find the rest of the law abhorrent and anti-Christian.

What are we wagering?

[Smax 3800]

https://fortune.com/2021/09/03/why-satanists-may-be-the-last-hope-to-take-down-texass-abortion-bill/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[CooterBrown 18289]

I’ll take that bet. Most Catholics are for ending abortion, yes even in cases of rapes and incest, but the vast majority of Catholics, including the Vatican, will find the rest of the law abhorrent and anti-Christian.
What are we wagering?

When they quit covering up child rape, they can have a seat at the morality table.

[Willfully Horn 8281]

1 minute ago, CooterBrown said:

When they quit covering up child rape, they can have a seat at the morality table.

I’m under no illusion the Church is a credible voice on  many subjects. Nevertheless, in my own experience, the Church supports the lives of countless moral, Christian, Christ like people.

[Anastasis 23719]

7 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

When they quit covering up child rape, they can have a seat at the morality table.

 

The Latin church needs to unwind their policy on "celibate" clergy.  It's like a selection process for incels and makes no sense from an administrative nor theological perspective. 

[Willfully Horn 8281]

Well put. Include female clergy and we are in sync.

[Bama Chick 28596]

My favorite philosopher.

[BearSchlong 8252]

Interesting.

[Neonmoon 38130]

Labeling abortion as barbaric is laughable. Forcing a woman to do something she doesn’t want to do is barbaric. 

[MissingInAction 25584]

7 hours ago, Smax said:

https://fortune.com/2021/09/03/why-satanists-may-be-the-last-hope-to-take-down-texass-abortion-bill/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

I became a member of The Satanic Temple a few years ago. Love everything they stand for.

The Seven Tenets

I

One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

II

The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

III

One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

IV

The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.

V

Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

VI

People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

VII

Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

[Biff Tannen 46197]

5 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

I became a member of The Satanic Temple a few years ago. Love everything they stand for.

The Seven Tenets

I

One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

II

The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

III

One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

IV

The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.

V

Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

VI

People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

VII

Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

Way less metal than I’ve been brought to believe. 
 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Biff Tannen

[WhatTheBuck 28938]

9 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

I became a member of The Satanic Temple a few years ago. Love everything they stand for.

The Seven Tenets

I

One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

II

The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

III

One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

IV

The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.

V

Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

VI

People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

VII

Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

“Perfection is a road, not a destination.” - Mr. Miyagi

[DaysOff 8219]

9 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

I became a member of The Satanic Temple a few years ago. Love everything they stand for.

The Seven Tenets

I

One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

II

The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

III

One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

IV

The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.

V

Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

VI

People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

VII

Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

 

mighty christian of them

[Bullneck 19554]

On 9/2/2021 at 10:06 PM, bonnieblue said:

I've had Ana on ignore for a year or so.  It's great; fewer wordy, inane posts to scroll through.

[Bullneck 19554]

19 hours ago, Smax said:

https://fortune.com/2021/09/03/why-satanists-may-be-the-last-hope-to-take-down-texass-abortion-bill/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

I clicked the link just so see if it said "Texass" like the link

[Willfully Horn 8281]

4 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

“Perfection is a road, not a destination.” - Mr. Miyagi

Perfection isn’t known on this side of the veil.

/me

[Degenerate Gardner 4160]

13 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

I became a member of The Satanic Temple a few years ago. Love everything they stand for.

The Seven Tenets

I

One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

II

The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

III

One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

IV

The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.

V

Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

VI

People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

VII

Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

I considered satanism but was turned off by all the W.A.S.P. music.

 

[MissingInAction 25584]

12 minutes ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

I considered satanism but was turned off by all the W.A.S.P. music.

 

Funny, that's what brought me closer to the local sect.

We do get lunatics, just like any organization,  TST doesn't tolerate any extremists nonsense.

Check out "Hail Satan" on hulu. Great doc on our church.

[Macanudo 13334]

On 9/3/2021 at 10:12 PM, Biff Tannen said:

Seems like if it was this easy then a fuck ton of people have been freaking out for no reason. No?

I disagree.   We've already seen 5 SCOTUS judges pretty much flip the bird at us over this.    A lower court has actual real adults on it and is acting logically.   That doesn't mean on appeal to each subsequent higher court that the injunction will stand.   I'd I bet Anastasis' left nut that when this gets back to SCOTUS, we're going to see those End Timers on the right overrule the lower courts.   

 

[brakeman 28762]

[DonkeyCigars 143]

On 9/4/2021 at 12:46 PM, hayden_horn said:

of course you do.

thing is, i would support that. if they choose that.

and the real thing is, i'm actually pro life. both my sons were very premature, and had they been born in the 80s, they probably would not have made it.

but this pro life type of path that republicans are going down makes no fucking sense at all, if the goal was really about reducing unwanted pregnancies. but that's not the point. the point is the cruelty.

instead of funding proper sex education, providing free healthcare and free contraception, funding adoption agencies and fucking fixing our broken foster system, providing free childcare to poor folks, etc, it's all really mostly about slut shaming.

and that's the point.

and that's why i quoted your post, not to single you out necessarily, but republicans make it all about the woman. the man part of the equation is almost never mentioned. and that is part of the white dude privilege i've learned to approach over the past couple years and try to put myself in other people's perspectives the best i can do. obviously, i'll never know what it's like being a woman, but i'm understanding that all abortion blame seems to be pointing fingers at women. women should be on the pill, women should get a device imp0lanted in their vaginas, etc. what about helping the women, and not ignoring the biological imperative that fucking each other is the natural order of things from puberty on? you can only delay the inevitable for so long. ignoring that reality is stupid.

Good points. I think a lot of the criticism for the Republicans caring about life only until the life is born is also fair. From what I read 90% of abortions today (later than 6 weeks) will not be legal. That’s amazing if you believe, as I do, that means that those 90% of babies cannot be legally killed. I guess that is a bold and an inflammatory statement, but it’s one I believe— abortion is murder. It’s just a different belief and I don’t see why someone else saying “abortion is not murder” is not equally inflammatory or offensive, but I digress.

Believing as I do and understanding that means unwanted life will be born, into sub-optimal situations and to sub-optimal people, I believe that I should make some room in my life to seriously think about looking into fostering or adopting, as I support this ban. I think that is a logical and faithful progression for most Christian people who support this— at least in my circle of communities.

Edit to add as I catch up on this thread; maybe the least surprising thing to find out is MIA is a Satan Temple member. God bless us all and there but for the Grace of God, go we.

Edited September 5, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[Gap03 3395]

2 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Edit to add as I catch up on this thread; maybe the least surprising thing to find out is MIA is a Satan Temple member. God bless us all and there but for the Grace of God, go we.

If we could trade people that follow those Seven Tenets for the fucksticks on Texags and TigerDroppings, the world would probably be a much better place, but you keep claiming the moral high ground as a "Christian."

[elfenix 34766]

this seems like an important detail:

Quote

"When I use a stethoscope to listen to an [adult] patient's heart, the sound that I'm hearing is caused by the opening and closing of the cardiac valves," says Dr. Nisha Verma, an OB-GYN who specializes in abortion care and works at the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. The sound generated by an ultrasound in very early pregnancy is quite different, she says. "At six weeks of gestation, those valves don't exist," she explains. "The flickering that we're seeing on the ultrasound that early in the development of the pregnancy is actually electrical activity, and the sound that you 'hear' is actually manufactured by the ultrasound machine."

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/02/1033727679/fetal-heartbeat-isnt-a-medical-term-but-its-still-used-in-laws-on-abortion?t=1630836931519

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by elfenix

[Goofyboy 3438]

this seems like an important detail:

"When I use a stethoscope to listen to an [adult] patient's heart, the sound that I'm hearing is caused by the opening and closing of the cardiac valves," says Dr. Nisha Verma, an OB-GYN who specializes in abortion care and works at the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. The sound generated by an ultrasound in very early pregnancy is quite different, she says. "At six weeks of gestation, those valves don't exist," she explains. "The flickering that we're seeing on the ultrasound that early in the development of the pregnancy is actually electrical activity, and the sound that you 'hear' is actually manufactured by the ultrasound machine."

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/02/1033727679/fetal-heartbeat-isnt-a-medical-term-but-its-still-used-in-laws-on-abortion?t=1630836931519
 

So… no heart beat, no time line, right?

[brakeman 28762]

this is more than for sure already posted. enjoy it again.

Edited September 6, 2021 by brakeman
fuck covid

[Biff Tannen 46197]

3 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Good points. I think a lot of the criticism for the Republicans caring about life only until the life is born is also fair. From what I read 90% of abortions today (later than 6 weeks) will not be legal. That’s amazing if you believe, as I do, that means that those 90% of babies cannot be legally killed. I guess that is a bold and an inflammatory statement, but it’s one I believe— abortion is murder. It’s just a different belief and I don’t see why someone else saying “abortion is not murder” is not equally inflammatory or offensive, but I digress.

Believing as I do and understanding that means unwanted life will be born, into sub-optimal situations and to sub-optimal people, I believe that I should make some room in my life to seriously think about looking into fostering or adopting, as I support this ban. I think that is a logical and faithful progression for most Christian people who support this— at least in my circle of communities.

Edit to add as I catch up on this thread; maybe the least surprising thing to find out is MIA is a Satan Temple member. God bless us all and there but for the Grace of God, go we.

I’m glad you like a book. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

[Anastasis 23719]

35 minutes ago, elfenix said:

this seems like an important detail:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/02/1033727679/fetal-heartbeat-isnt-a-medical-term-but-its-still-used-in-laws-on-abortion?t=1630836931519

 

This is like a perfect encapsulation of how nonsensical this all is.