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Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery

bad_teammate

By bad_teammate
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Bama Chick
Bama Chick

No. Fuck off with that. Not every abortion is about trauma and tragedy and using that framing plays into the christofascist’s hands. Women are humans. Humans have bodily autonomy. Ergo, women have b

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

I do love this argument. I really do. It’s as convenient a way to label yourself a drooling moron as exists, outside of towing around a giant neon “I’M A MORON” sign. No, they didn’t teach us that

hayden_horn
hayden_horn

of course you do. thing is, i would support that. if they choose that. and the real thing is, i'm actually pro life. both my sons were very premature, and had they been born in the 80s, they

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8,397

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7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Legally speaking, this is completely untrue. No citizens die as a result of an abortion. 

They are subhuman, right?

And is it your position only citizens have legal rights and protections?

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Stros

Stros 153

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OK, I'll play.
This is an abortion at 24 weeks.
th?id=OIP.xp5dHlyerktN3D4fvn7ebAHaFH&w=272&h=188&c=7&o=5&pid=1.7
 
If you're going to advocate FOR it, you should acknowledge what you're advocating FOR.
Would you call that a zygote?
I'm gonna call that a baby and apparently I'm going to be the only one who will.
Planned Parenthood does some 350,000 of those a year. Some earlier many later. That's almost a thousand every day.
And they have done exactly 0 (Zero) mammograms in their entire history. Not one. Tell me again about they are a vital resource for women's healthcare.
And of course, PP is NOT a non-profit. They make millions of dollars a year ripping babies from the wombs of mostly minority women. (In fact, that was always the plan, but I don't want you to believe me - I want you to go look it up and prove me wrong!)
I get that boys and girls want to have unprotected sex. That's Nature's way of making sure we make more babies. Simple Biology 101.
(Why do you hate science?)
For what's it's worth, I'll confess. While at UT, I paid for two abortions, one certainly mine, the other maybe, maybe not. My default position was that it was a woman's decision to make. I said that we should have a vote that ONLY women could participate in, and that whatever they decided should be the rule.
Then my ex-wife got pregnant. We were both in our early thirties and a doctor had assured us it would be nigh impossible. We discussed abortion and ultimately decided against it.
After my son was born, my opinion changed. He's the most important thing in the world to me and I still shudder when I think about how close we came to tossing him in the trash.
 
 
So I don't like murder in general. I don't like auto theft.
So I won't commit a murder or steal a car? Should that my sole input on the matter?
How about this?
"If you don't want to have a baby, don't let some random schmuck nut inside you."
That's way easier, cheaper and less bloody than having an abortion.
 
Hey, you asked.
 
Let me ask YOU one more question. Do you really know anyone who seriously wishes they HAD aborted their healthy child? Anyone at all?

Read this again. Once you’re done read it again.


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Stros

Stros 153

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Abortion at 24 weeks looks like a lizard.
Gross.

How many kids do you have? Have you considered adopting?

I have 3, and yes we are in the process of adopting. I’m far, far from perfect, but I love children and parenting.

Do babies at 24 weeks have brain functions? YES

Do babies at 24 weeks have nerves that let them feel pain? YES

Have you ever seen an abortion gone wrong and a baby trying to cry, and struggling for life? I can post a video if you would like to see.


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David Dennison

David Dennison 18,655

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Just now, Stros said:


How many kids do you have? Have you considered adopting?

I have 3, and yes we are in the process of adopting. I’m far, far from perfect, but I love children and parenting.

Do babies at 24 weeks have brain functions? YES

Do babies at 24 weeks have nerves that let them feel pain? YES

Have you ever seen an abortion gone wrong and a baby trying to cry, and struggling for life? I can post a video if you would like to see.


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No kids. Will never adopt. Am adopted.

Show me all the videos you want. I'll still be pro-choice.

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Stros

Stros 153

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No kids. Will never adopt. Am adopted.

Show me all the videos you want. I'll still be pro-choice.

You didn’t answer all the questions? That’s ok. I understand it’s hard.

 

You were adopted. Do you wish you had been aborted?

 

 

Sorry I’m pissed the Stros loss tonight, and I got a bit of a buzz. Aborting kids still sucks.

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18,655

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3 minutes ago, Stros said:

You didn’t answer all the questions? That’s ok. I understand it’s hard.

 

You were adopted. Do you wish you had been aborted?

 

 

Sorry I’m pissed the Stros loss tonight, and I got a bit of a buzz. Aborting kids still sucks.

 

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Do I wish I had been aborted? Not that I know of, but I think it's safe to say that if I had been aborted I wouldn't have cared. 

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blackmarketbaby

blackmarketbaby 118

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2 hours ago, Continental Op said:

Hey guys!  When I was carelessly spewing my seed around I wanted to be able to get my woman an abortion with a dirt devil and a shoehorn at a drive thru but now that I've changed my mind I want it to be illegal for everybody.  Is that OK?  

Rather it not be subsidized

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TDunk

TDunk 590

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Of the 1.6 million abortions performed in the U.S. each year, 91 percent are performed during the first trimester (12 or fewer weeks' gestation); 9 percent are performed in the second trimester (24 or fewer weeks' gestation); and only about 100 are performed in the third trimester (more than 24 weeks' gestation), approximately .01 percent of all abortions performed. 

Approximately 1.5 million U.S. women with unwanted pregnancies choose abortion each year. Most are under 25 years old and unmarried. Women who are separated from their husbands and poor women are more likely to choose abortion than other women. More than two-thirds of the women who seek abortions have jobs. Nearly one-third are in school. More than two-thirds plan to have a child in the future. 

Approximately 6 million women in the U.S. become pregnant every year. About half of those pregnancies are unintended. Either the woman or her partner did not use contraception or the contraceptive method failed. 

Each year more than one million U.S. teenagers become pregnant — one in nine women aged 15-19 and one in five who are sexually active. 

In 1988, the teenage pregnancy rate  was 113 per 1,000 women aged 15-19. The rate was 74 per 1,000 among those aged 15-17. 

50 percent of teenage pregnancies conceived in 1987 resulted in a birth, 36 percent in an abortion, and an estimated 14 percent in miscarriage. 

The number of abortions for every 100 live births showed a gradual decline since 1980 (35.9) to 1992 (33.5). The number of legal abortions increased slightly from 1995 (at 1,210,883) to 1996 (at 1,221,585). This is an increase of 0.89 percent. Since the national population increased by about 0.92 percent from mid-1995 to mid-1996, the abortion per-capita rate has decreased slightly. 

CDC figures for 1995 show that 20 percent of women having abortions are in their teens; 33 percent are ages 20 to 24, and 47 percent are ages 25 or older. 

Eighty percent of women having abortions are single; 60 percent are white; 35 percent are black. 

Eighty-two percent of the women having abortions are unmarried or separated. 

Almost half of American women (43 percent) will have an abortion sometime in their lifetime. 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2003/06/17/fast-facts-us-abortion-statistics.html

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,132

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8 hours ago, Stros said:

Do babies at 24 weeks have nerves that let them feel pain? YES

Do they have the brain structures necessary to actually experience pain at 24 weeks as opposed to the mere capability to carry the signal? NO

I think you're actually going into a fruitful part of the discussion, but let's not be misleading with our language. As mentioned ad infinitum, late-term abortions are (thankfully) extremely rare, and everyone involved in the discussion wishes for that to remain true. Holding up late-term abortions as the basic concept for legal abortion when it is an extreme statistical rarity is purposefully dishonest.

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formermav43

formermav43 4,599

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13 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I think you're actually going into a fruitful part of the discussion, but let's not be misleading with our language. As mentioned ad infinitum, late-term abortions are (thankfully) extremely rare, and everyone involved in the discussion wishes for that to remain true. Holding up late-term abortions as the basic concept for legal abortion when it is an extreme statistical rarity is purposefully dishonest.

If basing an argument on statistical rarities is purposefully dishonest, it’s time to retire the rape/incest/life of the mother trifecta.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8,397

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19 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Do they have the brain structures necessary to actually experience pain at 24 weeks as opposed to the mere capability to carry the signal? NO

I think you're actually going into a fruitful part of the discussion, but let's not be misleading with our language. As mentioned ad infinitum, late-term abortions are (thankfully) extremely rare, and everyone involved in the discussion wishes for that to remain true. Holding up late-term abortions as the basic concept for legal abortion when it is an extreme statistical rarity is purposefully dishonest.

Gun murders in schools are statistically very rare too. Does that mean the anti gun people are being purposely dishonest?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,132

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18 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

If basing an argument on statistical rarities is purposefully dishonest, it’s time to retire the rape/incest/life of the mother trifecta.

Has someone argued that the majority of abortions are rape/incest/life of the mother motivated?

Has anyone characterized abortion as primarily consisting of women in those situations?

16 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Gun murders in schools are statistically very rare too. Does that mean the anti gun people are being purposely dishonest?

... when they say... what?

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formermav43

formermav43 4,599

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2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Has someone argued that the majority of abortions are rape/incest/life of the mother motivated?

Has anyone characterized abortion as primarily consisting of women in those situations?

Did anyone argue the majority of abortions are late-term?

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formermav43

formermav43 4,599

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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

The people showing pictures of late-term abortions when arguing against abortion writ large are doing that, yes.

I see. But those mentioning cases of rape/incest/life of the mother as arguments for abortion writ large are not arguing those are the majority of abortions. 

That’s an astounding distinction you’re able to draw there. 

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Jiggy-Z

Jiggy-Z 3,432

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When discussing this subject, in order to keep it civil, productive and informative, it would be wise to eliminate the fringe extreme cases that are never going to be a realistic part of any law:

 

To start.

Rape, Incest, life of the mother situations need to be a given and should be off the table for discussion.

Acknowledgement on the pro-abortion side  that there is going to be a time before birth where it is going to be illegal to abort a viable fetus.

Acknowledgement on the pro-life  side that there is going to be a time after conception where an abortion is going to be legal.

Know that on each end of the debate there are extreme factions that tend to muddy the waters with name calling, inflammatory rhetoric, and moral absolutes.

There are many more.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,132

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2 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

I see. But those mentioning cases of rape/incest/life of the mother as arguments for abortion writ large are not arguing those are the majority of abortions. 

That’s an astounding distinction you’re able to draw there. 

Who is doing that? I don't know of any pro-abortion-rights person who argues that elective 1st trimester abortions should be illegal except in cases of the trifecta. I might be wrong, but I'd be interested to see someone argue that.

What people who are pro-abortion-rights do is probe the depth of commitment anti-abortion-rights folks have by asking the the anti-abortion folks, "Hey, do you oppose a 1st trimester abortion even in the case of rape/incest/life-of-the-mother?"

Quote

Acknowledgement on the pro-abortion side  that there is going to be a time before birth where it is going to be illegal to abort a viable fetus.

As a pro-abortion-rights person who talks with others like me, the most common thought is that late-term abortions should only be allowed in the trifecta circumstance.

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Jiggy-Z

Jiggy-Z 3,432

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6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Who is doing that? I don't know of any pro-abortion-rights person who argues that elective 1st trimester abortions should be illegal except in cases of the trifecta. I might be wrong, but I'd be interested to see someone argue that.

What people who are pro-abortion-rights do is probe the depth of commitment anti-abortion-rights folks have by asking the the anti-abortion folks, "Hey, do you oppose a 1st trimester abortion even in the case of rape/incest/life-of-the-mother?"

As a pro-abortion-rights person who talks with others like me, the most common thought is that late-term abortions should only be allowed in the trifecta circumstance.

I understand that.  Just trying to eliminate the fringe absolute argument that it would be ok to abort right up until birth-which is admittedly way  more fringey than the life begins at conception absolute.  

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,132

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Just now, Jiggy-Z said:

I understand that.  Just trying to eliminate the fringe absolute argument that it would be ok to abort right up until birth-which is admittedly way  more fringey than the life begins at conception absolute.  

Life begins at conception is not fringe at all. That's the majority view.

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formermav43

formermav43 4,599

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So what this boils down to is:

1) Statistically rare cases should not be the basis of arguments

2) Unless they are arguments you like.

The only distinction you’ve drawn between the two extreme cases is your assertion that late-term abortions were implied to be a majority of abortions. Which, of course, no one implied, in just the same way that, as you correctly point out, no one implied only cases of rape/incest/life of the mother should be allowed in the first trimester. Your “argument” is based only on your arbitrary decision.

It would have been much less tortuous to say “Don’t use arguments I don’t like” instead of  pretending there was some sort of logical principle at work.

 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,132

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33 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

So what this boils down to is:

1) Statistically rare cases should not be the basis of arguments

2) Unless they are arguments you like.

The only distinction you’ve drawn between the two extreme cases is your assertion that late-term abortions were implied to be a majority of abortions. Which, of course, no one implied, in just the same way that, as you correctly point out, no one implied only cases of rape/incest/life of the mother should be allowed in the first trimester. Your “argument” is based only on your arbitrary decision.

It would have been much less tortuous to say “Don’t use arguments I don’t like” instead of  pretending there was some sort of logical principle at work.

That's exactly what Stros is doing in post #118.

He is asked:

So, Mr. Pro-Life, what about rape and incest? Is rape-baby murder OK?
 

And he responds with late-term abortion pics.

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formermav43

formermav43 4,599

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12 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

That's exactly what Stros is doing in post #118.

He is asked:

So, Mr. Pro-Life, what about rape and incest? Is rape-baby murder OK?
 

And he responds with late-term abortion pics.

He and the poster he was responding to were already discussing late term abortion. Read further up the thread. It was entirely relevant in context.

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