Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19305]

8 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Texas is a third world country. Shut it down 

 

This.  Texas has become a terrible place. Glad I'm not there.

[elfenix 34752]

1 hour ago, pyrohornIII said:

She's out on bond already.   I feel for her, because her life and the lives of her family is about to be in the middle of a shitstorm.   I don't think she did this as a publicity stunt, but I guess we will find out.

I just hope that the fucker who knocked her up without b/c gets called out too.   

irresponsible ejaculators aren't the issue

[Sawbonz 28225]

5 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/protesters-gather-outside-texas-jail-after-reported-abortion-arrest-2022-04-09/
 

Charged with murder. 
 

The law bans abortions at around six weeks, a point when many women do not yet realize they are pregnant, with no exception for pregnancies resulting from rape or incest. read more .

The Texas law enables private citizens to sue anyone who performs or assists a woman in getting an abortion after embryo cardiac activity is detected. Individual citizens can be awarded a minimum of $10,000 for successful lawsuits.

The U.S. Supreme Court in December left the ban in place but additional legal challenges are pending.

The article does not cite any language from the new law providing for criminal penalties such as murder just states individuals can sue providers and those who assist. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Sawbonz

[safe sex 12011]

2 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

I just hope that the fucker who knocked her up without b/c gets called out too.   

Not a chance. Why would he? He's not the slut that got knocked up; boys will be boys; she tricked him; etc, ad infinitum. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2888]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

This.  Texas has become a terrible place. Glad I'm not there.

It's an awesome place for a good fight.  We don't need or want any help from anyone who R-U-N-O-F-T.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2888]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

This.  Texas has become a terrible place. Glad I'm not there.

No thanks to the women of this state who won't vote in lockstep for their rights. 

[wildcat09 29579]

3 hours ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

It's an awesome place for a good fight.  We don't need or want any help from anyone who R-U-N-O-F-T.

Everyone knows it's spelled "R-U-N-N-O-F-T."

[Neonmoon 38130]

15 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Anybody have any more details on this? The new law is a civil statute correct? No one can be held on criminal charges based on a civil statute can they?

 

15 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/protesters-gather-outside-texas-jail-after-reported-abortion-arrest-2022-04-09/
 

Charged with murder. 
 

The law bans abortions at around six weeks, a point when many women do not yet realize they are pregnant, with no exception for pregnancies resulting from rape or incest. read more .

The Texas law enables private citizens to sue anyone who performs or assists a woman in getting an abortion after embryo cardiac activity is detected. Individual citizens can be awarded a minimum of $10,000 for successful lawsuits.

The U.S. Supreme Court in December left the ban in place but additional legal challenges are pending.

 

13 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

SB8 legislates that 

SECTION 2. AA The legislature finds that the State of Texas never repealed, either expressly or by implication, the state statutes enacted before the ruling in Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973),that prohibit and criminalize abortion unless the mothers life is in danger. 

Under the Texas penal code 

2A TEXAS PENAL CODE art. 1191, at 429 (1961):

If any person shall designedly administer to a pregnant woman or knowingly procure to be administered with her consent any drug or medicine, or shall use towards her any violence or means whatever externally or internally applied, and thereby procure an abortion, he shall be confined in the penitentiary not less than two nor more than five years if it be done without her consent, the punishment shall be doubled. By 'abortion' is meant that the life of the fetus or embryo shall be destroyed in the woman's womb or that a premature birth thereof be caused.

 

 

10 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

The article does not cite any language from the new law providing for criminal penalties such as murder just states individuals can sue providers and those who assist. 

See above 

[Sawbonz 28225]

17 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

 

 

 

See above 

I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t see “murder” anywhere in the legal text you quoted. The article states she was charged with murder, not having an illegal abortion. The statute you are quoting states the penalty for performing an illegal abortion is 2 to 5 years. As far as I can tell that is not the charge here. 

[Neonmoon 38130]

25 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t see “murder” anywhere in the legal text you quoted. The article states she was charged with murder, not having an illegal abortion. The statute you are quoting states the penalty for performing an illegal abortion is 2 to 5 years. As far as I can tell that is not the charge here. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/woman-faces-texas-murder-charge-self-induced-abortion-rcna23739

“

Quote

 

Herrera was arrested and served with an indictment on the charge of Murder after Herrera did then and there intentionally and knowingly cause the death of an individual by self-induced abortion,” Delgado said.

Delgado did not say under what law Herrera has been charged. He said no other information will be released until at least Monday because the case remains under investigation.

Texas law exempts her from a criminal homicide charge for aborting her own pregnancy, University of Texas law professor Stephen Vladeck told The Associated Press.

“(Homicide) doesn’t apply to the murder of an unborn child if the conduct charged is ‘conduct committed by the mother of the unborn child,’” Vladeck said.”

 

Seems like there is a bit of confusion by everybody. This professor is interpreting the penal code as it’s currently written that abortion by a mother is exempt under homicide charge 

SB8 says the laws pre Roe v Wade are the true laws. You astutely pointed out it doesn’t say murder, just abortion. 

Starr County is charging her with knowingly killing an individual. 

They might be taking a big leap by arguing fetuses have the same legal rights as birthed humans. Either they will reduce the charges, or this will be another Supreme Court case on deciding if fetuses have the same legal rights as birthed. 

[Captainant 28544]

26 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Either they will reduce the charges, or this will be another Supreme Court case on deciding if fetuses have the same legal rights as birthed. 

I'd bet the court will rule that fetuses have a right to healthcare and birth.

 

...

 

And then they have no right to healthcare after birth. Get to work, poor people. Insurance industry leeches gotta eat too

[Sawbonz 28225]

39 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

They might be taking a big leap by arguing fetuses have the same legal rights as birthed humans.

Unless it was after 24 weeks this should be dismissed quickly

 

should be 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Thank god but this is still going to have a chilling effect on women seeking medical care and probably end up severely harming and killing some of them.

[jimmyjazz 47216]

Wait . . . did she actually take Plan B, as I've heard, which is an emergency contraception?  If so, under what law (state or federal) does that constitute "abortion"?

This case is confusing, to say the least.  Need Cliff's Notes.

[Captainant 28544]

14 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Wait . . . did she actually take Plan B, as I've heard, which is an emergency contraception?  If so, under what law (state or federal) does that constitute "abortion"?

This case is confusing, to say the least.  Need Cliff's Notes.

Well if you believe what your local grifter preacher told you about sky daddy's views on life starting at conception, then it would be an abortion.

[Sawbonz 28225]

That hospital and the individual healthcare worker(s) involved in reporting this need to face the highest fine available for divulging protected health information. The feds need to make a big example of them

[Captainant 28544]

11 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

That hospital and the individual healthcare worker(s) involved in reporting this need to face the highest fine available for divulging protected health information. The feds need to make a big example of them

Yeah I was curious how HIPAA would play into this, since there are exceptions for law enforcement reporting:

To report PHI to a law enforcement official reasonably able to prevent or lessen a serious and imminent threat to the health or safety of an individual or the public. To report PHI that the covered entity in good faith believes to be evidence of a crime that occurred on the premises of the covered entity.

And since the provider can argue a """good faith""" defense that they thought a crime had occurred, I'm frankly pretty worried that nothing will happen. Or at the very least, any action will be stymied by a partisan judiciary and an ineffectual AG. 

[jimmyjazz 47216]

So no details on Plan B or some other action?

[Sawbonz 28225]

41 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Yeah I was curious how HIPAA would play into this, since there are exceptions for law enforcement reporting:

To report PHI to a law enforcement official reasonably able to prevent or lessen a serious and imminent threat to the health or safety of an individual or the public. To report PHI that the covered entity in good faith believes to be evidence of a crime that occurred on the premises of the covered entity.

And since the provider can argue a """good faith""" defense that they thought a crime had occurred, I'm frankly pretty worried that nothing will happen. Or at the very least, any action will be stymied by a partisan judiciary and an ineffectual AG. 

Fuck all of that. If Biden’s DOJ is serious about pushing back on this bullshit they need to go nuclear on them and make it clear that reporting these things has consequences. The govt doesn’t have to win the case. Make the entity spend a shitload of money defending itself. Bankrupt the piece of shit who reported it and make them a pariah for any other hospital or clinic to hire. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Ya know I’ve been thinking about all those men who, over the years, have poo pooed women holding abortion as a “litmus test” and sagely mansplaining about Roe and Casey and “settled law”.

To all those men?

FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF

[lemonlime 5503]

6 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Thank god but this is still going to have a chilling effect on women seeking medical care and probably end up severely harming and killing some of them.
 

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they knew they'd be dropping the charges before they arrested her.  Mission accomplished on putting women in their place.

[wildcat09 29579]

In addition to the hospital that reported her, the feds should investigate the DA and the judge who set her bond at $500k. 

[Ghost of LL 15698]

The Washington Post has a write-up on this story, and it looks like it's the Valley-ist story to ever come out of the Valley.  

The exact details are a little sketchy, but apparently the assistant district attorneys in Starr County are allowed to practice civil litigation on the side.  Like--for private clients.  There are plenty of district and county attorneys who do civil litigation representing the county.  But I've never heard of them being able to represent non-governmental clients in car-wreck cases and the like.

So the ADA who brought the case to the grand jury . . . and this is where it gets really, really Valley . . . represents the woman's estranged husband.  He filed for divorce the same day the ADA brought the case to the grand jury.

So, yeah--the County is going to get sued.  And guess what--the taxpayers are going to be on the hook for a great big settlement.  So that's nice.

[wildcat09 29579]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

The Washington Post has a write-up on this story, and it looks like it's the Valley-ist story to ever come out of the Valley.  

The exact details are a little sketchy, but apparently the assistant district attorneys in Starr County are allowed to practice civil litigation on the side.  Like--for private clients.  There are plenty of district and county attorneys who do civil litigation representing the county.  But I've never heard of them being able to represent non-governmental clients in car-wreck cases and the like.

So the ADA who brought the case to the grand jury . . . and this is where it gets really, really Valley . . . represents the woman's estranged husband.  He filed for divorce the same day the ADA brought the case to the grand jury.

So, yeah--the County is going to get sued.  And guess what--the taxpayers are going to be on the hook for a great big settlement.  So that's nice.

Seems like there should be a strong argument that the ADA who brought this case shouldn't get prosecutorial immunity here, but I have no idea if there's any exception for something like this.

[Sawbonz 28225]

17 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

The Washington Post has a write-up on this story, and it looks like it's the Valley-ist story to ever come out of the Valley.  

The exact details are a little sketchy, but apparently the assistant district attorneys in Starr County are allowed to practice civil litigation on the side.  Like--for private clients.  There are plenty of district and county attorneys who do civil litigation representing the county.  But I've never heard of them being able to represent non-governmental clients in car-wreck cases and the like.

So the ADA who brought the case to the grand jury . . . and this is where it gets really, really Valley . . . represents the woman's estranged husband.  He filed for divorce the same day the ADA brought the case to the grand jury.

So, yeah--the County is going to get sued.  And guess what--the taxpayers are going to be on the hook for a great big settlement.  So that's nice.

I’m sure the state bar will be all over this 

[DigglerontheHoof 21552]

So when does the GQP make premarital sex illegal?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13733]

I don't claim to remotely understand what everyone is saying or doing, but I've been surprised by the relative silence about abortion basically become illegal in Texas. By all appearances, it's not even a major issue for the Nov elections. Obviously it's early in the year.

[WhatTheBuck 28930]

1 hour ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

So when does the GQP make premarital sex illegal?

I dare them to make extramarital sex illegal. 

[Goofyboy 3434]

So when does the GQP make premarital sex illegal?

Porn goes before premarital sex…

[hpslugga 4097]

2 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Porn goes before premarital sex…

All starts with the dancing

[Bama Chick 28596]

I don't claim to remotely understand what everyone is saying or doing, but I've been surprised by the relative silence about abortion basically become illegal in Texas. By all appearances, it's not even a major issue for the Nov elections. Obviously it's early in the year.

I can’t speak for Texas women but I would be leery of shooting my mouth off about abortion in this climate.

Especially in public or around strangers - I don’t want some preachy busybody to call the bounty hunters or sheriff on me or some Karen to call my job.

These laws are working as designed. Driving women and their high falutin opinions underground.

You men are going to have to be loud vocal allies on this.

[WhatTheBuck 28930]

6 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

All starts with the dancing

Not according to the joke I heard.

Q: Why are Mennonites against sex while standing?

A: Because it might lead to dancing.

I know that joke is told about lots of other religious sects but that’s how I learned it. 

[scottsins 2047]

See above 

First. That section of SB 8 is a “finding”, which does not carry any effect.

Second, in effect, statutory construction would mandate that the most recent and specific of two conflicting provisions will control. IOW, it is essentially repealed by the later adopted conflicting language.

[scottsins 2047]

Thank god but this is still going to have a chilling effect on women seeking medical care and probably end up severely harming and killing some of them.

Cool. Then why. The. Fuck. Did. Your. Office. Indict. Her.?

[wildcat09 29579]

36 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don't claim to remotely understand what everyone is saying or doing, but I've been surprised by the relative silence about abortion basically become illegal in Texas. By all appearances, it's not even a major issue for the Nov elections. Obviously it's early in the year.

This is because the Democrats are the Washington Generals of politics. 

[scottsins 2047]

The Washington Post has a write-up on this story, and it looks like it's the Valley-ist story to ever come out of the Valley.  
The exact details are a little sketchy, but apparently the assistant district attorneys in Starr County are allowed to practice civil litigation on the side.  Like--for private clients.  There are plenty of district and county attorneys who do civil litigation representing the county.  But I've never heard of them being able to represent non-governmental clients in car-wreck cases and the like.
So the ADA who brought the case to the grand jury . . . and this is where it gets really, really Valley . . . represents the woman's estranged husband.  He filed for divorce the same day the ADA brought the case to the grand jury.
So, yeah--the County is going to get sued.  And guess what--the taxpayers are going to be on the hook for a great big settlement.  So that's nice.

That answers my question below. That ADA needs to fired ASAP and disbarred.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13733]

10 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

This is because the Democrats are the Washington Generals of politics. 

Is there really a Democrat party of Texas? I'm sure it exists but there doesn't appear to be any real organization. 

[wildcat09 29579]

3 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Is there really a Democrat party of Texas? I'm sure it exists but there doesn't appear to be any real organization. 

More than there used to be. But national Democrats should be raising hell about this too, and they've been absolutely silent since the federal government filed its lawsuit that SCOTUS pissed on. They're just so fucking scared of ever trying to do actual politics about anything that might even be remotely controversial to some mythical middle aged moderate white couple in Iowa. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2888]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don't claim to remotely understand what everyone is saying or doing, but I've been surprised by the relative silence about abortion basically become illegal in Texas. By all appearances, it's not even a major issue for the Nov elections. Obviously it's early in the year.

I don't think it's that surprising that underrepresented poor women are getting fucked over and no one gives a shit.  I am like you, when I momentarily assume that other people are thinking this through intelligently, surprised that this issue so fundamentally affects one group of persons, and they don't hold politicians hostage who oppose abortion.

I'd like to think that if the government mandated castration after age 20 about 99% of us would stick together to fight it.

[jimmyjazz 47216]

35 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

More than there used to be. But national Democrats should be raising hell about this too, and they've been absolutely silent since the federal government filed its lawsuit that SCOTUS pissed on. They're just so fucking scared of ever trying to do actual politics about anything that might even be remotely controversial to some mythical middle aged moderate white couple in Iowa. 

[Ghost of LL 15698]

3 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I’m sure the state bar will be all over this 

I can almost guarantee you that there will be some SBOT proceeding on this.

[F250 29201]

What year is this?

 

 

[Bullneck 19530]

On 4/9/2022 at 10:28 PM, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

This.  Texas has become a terrible place. Glad I'm not there.

And that's not even taking into account that everyone in Austin drives a massive pickup at 80mph everywhere.

[Bullneck 19530]

[Bama Chick 28596]

Pro-Tip for those without a uterus or fallopian tubes- ectopic pregnancies NEVER result in a live baby and kill the mother.

Fucking shit ass fucking ghouls.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19305]

10 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Pro-Tip for those without a uterus or fallopian tubes- ectopic pregnancies NEVER result in a live baby and kill the mother.
 

 

Fucking shit ass fucking ghouls.

 

The stupidest fucking people.

[Burt 4137]

Joel Osteen's service was interrupted but a couple of protesters.

 

[Pancho 46321]

 

[Neonmoon 38130]

22 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

Counterpoint: Their religion didn't spend the past 50 years funding political campaigns to ensure their version of beliefs were the majority on the Supreme Court. In this country, that beats silly things like legal precedence and rights. 

 

[SimonBolivar 11064]

So is today the day?