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Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery

bad_teammate

By bad_teammate
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Bama Chick
Bama Chick

No. Fuck off with that. Not every abortion is about trauma and tragedy and using that framing plays into the christofascist’s hands. Women are humans. Humans have bodily autonomy. Ergo, women have b

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

I do love this argument. I really do. It’s as convenient a way to label yourself a drooling moron as exists, outside of towing around a giant neon “I’M A MORON” sign. No, they didn’t teach us that

hayden_horn
hayden_horn

of course you do. thing is, i would support that. if they choose that. and the real thing is, i'm actually pro life. both my sons were very premature, and had they been born in the 80s, they

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Longhornmaniac8

Longhornmaniac8 255

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Ignoring anything else, how many women do you think go through the physical trauma of a full-term pregnancy only to then decide they don't want it?

Late term abortions account for only 1.3% of all abortions in the US, which themselves account for about 20% percent of all pregnancies.

That means for every 1 million pregnancies in the US, only 2600 end with a late term (after 21 weeks) abortion.

It is inconceivable to me that more than 1% of late term abortions in the days leading to full term result because an individual has changed their mind. If you make it to 40 weeks, you want the fucking baby. Period. Most late term abortions would still occur early on in the third trimester when the people without access or knowing they're pregnant (hurray for our stupid fucking public compounded by asinine sex education laws) finally get their shit together. The remainder of them will be for medical complications that arise later on. We're literally talking about *maybe* 2-3 people per million pregnancies. There is simply no credible evidence that has ever been out forth for this ridiculous emphasis by the "pro-lifers" on these procedures. Out of ~6 million pregnancies in the US per year, we're talking about MAYBE 15-20 total cases, and I'd argue that's probably still to high. Maybe one of them lives in VA?

Should that be illegal? Sure. Is it a relevant thing to prioritize given the myriad problems we have with people dying?

Absolutely not.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Longhornmaniac8 said:

Ignoring anything else, how many women do you think go through the physical trauma of a full-term pregnancy only to then decide they don't want it?

Late term abortions account for only 1.3% of all abortions in the US, which themselves account for about 20% percent of all pregnancies.

That means for every 1 million pregnancies in the US, only 2600 end with a late term (after 21 weeks) abortion.

It is inconceivable to me that more than 1% of late term abortions in the days leading to full term result because an individual has changed their mind. If you make it to 40 weeks, you want the fucking baby. Period. Most late term abortions would still occur early on in the third trimester when the people without access or knowing they're pregnant (hurray for our stupid fucking public compounded by asinine sex education laws) finally get their shit together. The remainder of them will be for medical complications that arise later on. We're literally talking about *maybe* 2-3 people per million pregnancies. There is simply no credible evidence that has ever been out forth for this ridiculous emphasis by the "pro-lifers" on these procedures. Out of ~6 million pregnancies in the US per year, we're talking about MAYBE 15-20 total cases, and I'd argue that's probably still to high. Maybe one of them lives in VA?

Should that be illegal? Sure. Is it a relevant thing to prioritize given the myriad problems we have with people dying?

Absolutely not.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

A little bit of infanticide is okay

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Longhornmaniac8 said:

Is it a relevant thing to prioritize given the myriad problems we have with people dying?

Agreed.  At least in terms of prioritization wrt abortion, we should prioritize education and healthcare interventions that focus on women who have had 2 or more prior abortions.  Women who are receiving their 3rd abortion make up ~20% of all abortions annually in this country.  That's about 75-100k abortions annually. Not only could we impact in a meaningful way the number of abortions, we could address risk for some of the known psychological and medical complications associated with using abortion as a routine medical procedure for preventing child birth. 

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Atx71

Atx71 146

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6 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

A little bit of infanticide is okay

Shame your folks didn't believe in post-birth abortion. I mean the justification was looking back right at them. Sad. 

 

I love the right jumping back hard on the abortion train when all else fails. Trump is going to be the greatest train engineer EVAR! 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Atx71 said:

Shame your folks didn't believe in post-birth abortion. I mean the justification was looking back right at them. Sad. 

 

I love the right jumping back hard on the abortion train when all else fails. Trump is going to be the greatest train engineer EVAR! 

That's not very nice.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11669

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Message Board User said:

It's gonna be fun watching the 2020 field of Democrats try to out-left each other to stand out, probably to the point that if you don't support a woman's right to late-term abortion (or infanticide) you are a knuckle-dragging, unwoke, misogynist.

This.

I am Pro-Choice, but good grief the VA law is totally sickening.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

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25 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

In 2016 I didn’t vote for Hillary or Trump.  I had resolved sometime ago I would vote for the Democrat in 2020.  If the Democrat gets to the point of making partial birth abortion an issue, then I’m right back to sitting out or voting 3rd party.  

You will find an excuse to go third party or you will punch the ticket for Trump. If Trump didn't get you to move in 2016, absolutely nothing will or could.

Edited by bad_teammate
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tantric superman

tantric superman 4667

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Posted

So you have a ban on third trimester abortions.  Even if you have exceptions (life of the mother, kid has identifiable genetic disease that will lead to a quick, painful, tragic death), how do you enforce it?

So you'll fine and perhaps imprison abortionists.  Okay, it seems that might drive a good number of women to take the child to term.

But you will still have to either force the woman to term or drive them to illegal and unsafe late term abortions?  I don't want the government doing that.

I would have no problem with the government lessening late term abortions by sex education, contraceptives and easing and encouraging earlier term pre-natal care or abortion.
 

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Don Johnson

Don Johnson 4753

Posted
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

So you have a ban on third trimester abortions.  Even if you have exceptions (life of the mother, kid has identifiable genetic disease that will lead to a quick, painful, tragic death), how do you enforce it?

So you'll fine and perhaps imprison abortionists.  Okay, it seems that might drive a good number of women to take the child to term.

But you will still have to either force the woman to term or drive them to illegal and unsafe late term abortions?  I don't want the government doing that.

I would have no problem with the government lessening late term abortions by sex education, contraceptives and easing and encouraging earlier term pre-natal care or abortion.
 

Honest answer.  Pro-lifers(and many pro-choicers, even) see a child a month away from being born as the same as a one month old baby.   No one says "How do you force a mother to not kill their one month old?, I don't want the government policing that."

This thing would have less traction if it clearly defined genuine terminal risk for mother or baby.  Instead, you have this "or impairs the mental health of the mother" garbage.  

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elfenix

elfenix 34238

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oh good a brain dead discussion of VA' governor's discussion of babies born dead, resuscitated (which doesn't fix the underlying problem that lead to the baby being born dead anyway), and then a discussion between the parents and the doctor as to how best to proceed. WHAT A FUCKING HORROR!  fuck all you pro life assholes who want to make babies and families suffer so that you fucks can feel good about yourselves. go fuck yourself with a splintered baseball bat.  i hope your asshole tears and you can never take a proper shit again.

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horn4life

horn4life 3760

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I don't think abortion is right.  But the problem is the man pays no price or physical discomfort if he simple deposits his seed and runs away.  Abortion laws for some are indeed about principle, but for most they are simply the desire to punish those who are sexually permissive.  

On this matter like many other I tend to fall first on the side of civil liberties.  When you look for example at the nearly exclusive old white man representation in law making as a whole, I find it difficult to allow those men to pass judgement in an area of which they have no expertise whatsoever beyond their religious leanings.  

Secondly, and this is brutal, it's a LOT more cost effective to pay for the abortion of an unwanted child, than to pay for the later incarceration of that unwanted child.Please - go ahead and pick out an example of the gross exception to my logic as your example of proof to the contrary...

Thirdly - the same folks that want to ban abortions, largely do not give a shit about the child after it is born.  The truth is that the GOP realized it was losing voters, but found a block similar to the NRA block that would single issue vote.  I still remember sitting in my in-laws Catholic church listening to the evils of abortion when there was not a peep about the molestations and boy fucking their clergy was being exposed for. 

It's a poltical issue for the GOP, not an issue of principle.  Simply as currently there are NO discernible principles held by the GOP...

There are a lot of folks out there that do care and do act on priniple here.  It's just that there principles are best served by lip service, sign carrying, and voting.  For the vast, vast majority taking care of, much less adopting one of the unwanted children they so prayed would come into the world would be... welll.. inconventient personally...

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Asithappens

Asithappens 974

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, horn4life said:

I don't think abortion is right. 

Why not?

Aren't miscarriages merely God's abortions? 

A bit flippant, but my point remains. I'm not saying that I have a big disagreement with you, but if you have a severely deformed fetus (or Fragile X, Down, etc.) you don't think it's "right" to abort? 

In those circumstances I don't think it's "right" to follow through and give birth. What if the fetus is causing serious problems for the mother? It's not "right" to abort? But it's "right" for the mother to die? 

Let's tackle rape and incest now. I don't think it's "right" to force a women to give birth in those circumstances. 

I guess your view of what's "right" and mine differ at times.

Abortion should be legal, and safe. If you don't like abortion then don't get one.

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SDG

SDG 3319

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, horn4life said:

I don't think abortion is right.  But the problem is the man pays no price or physical discomfort if he simple deposits his seed and runs away.  Abortion laws for some are indeed about principle, but for most they are simply the desire to punish those who are sexually permissive.  

On this matter like many other I tend to fall first on the side of civil liberties.  When you look for example at the nearly exclusive old white man representation in law making as a whole, I find it difficult to allow those men to pass judgement in an area of which they have no expertise whatsoever beyond their religious leanings.  

Secondly, and this is brutal, it's a LOT more cost effective to pay for the abortion of an unwanted child, than to pay for the later incarceration of that unwanted child.Please - go ahead and pick out an example of the gross exception to my logic as your example of proof...

Thirdly - the same folks that want to ban abortions, largely do not give a shit about the child after it is born.  The truth is that the GOP realized it was losing voters, but found a block similar to the NRA block that would single issue vote.  I still remember sitting in my in-laws Catholic church listening to the evils of abortion when there was not a peep about the molestations and boy fucking their clergy was being exposed for. 

It's a poltical issue for the GOP, not an issue of principle.  Simply as currently there are NO discernible principles held by the GOP...

While I agree with most of your post this is wrong.  In fact, the men in the equation have no choice.  Example: let’s say the man wants to abort and the women doesn’t; he’s on the hook for child support anyway. Now let’s say the man wants the baby and the women doesn’t; again he has no rights.

there is absolutely a price paid.  

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Asithappens

Asithappens 974

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Posted
3 minutes ago, SDG said:

While I agree with most of your post this is wrong.  In fact, the men in the equation have no choice.  Example: let’s say the man wants to abort and the women doesn’t; he’s on the hook for child support anyway. Now let’s say the man wants the baby and the women doesn’t; again he has no rights.

there is absolutely a price paid.  

Well, let's at least get the wording right: "let's say the man wants the WOMAN to abort...." The man can't abort. 

It's ultimately the woman's choice, imo. She is the one stuck with most of the costs (not always, but most of the time) so she gets to call the shots. Don't like it? Then don't get her pregnant.

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SDG

SDG 3319

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

Well, let's at least get the wording right: "let's say the man wants the WOMAN to abort...." The man can't abort. 

It's ultimately the woman's choice, imo. She is the one stuck with most of the costs (not always, but most of the time) so she gets to call the shots. Don't like it? Then don't get her pregnant.

Wrong again. In many of these cases tax payers are on the hook which is why I’m pro choice within reason.  

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SDG

SDG 3319

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

Lol, sure.

The taxpayer is the one who has to pony up, not the woman? You sound like a virgin. 

 

Lol? Are you an adult?  Not a virgin but someone who knows their actions have consequences and contraception is cheap.  Condoms are almost free and plan b is $35~50.  I won’t be having children until I can afford the standards I want for them.  

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4667

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

Honest answer.  Pro-lifers(and many pro-choicers, even) see a child a month away from being born as the same as a one month old baby.   No one says "How do you force a mother to not kill their one month old?, I don't want the government policing that."

 

Well fuck those stupid demagogues.  I don't mind an argument to protect one or the other or both, but that's just moronic way to argue the point. 

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19190

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Longhornmaniac8 said:

Ignoring anything else, how many women do you think go through the physical trauma of a full-term pregnancy only to then decide they don't want it?

Late term abortions account for only 1.3% of all abortions in the US, which themselves account for about 20% percent of all pregnancies.

That means for every 1 million pregnancies in the US, only 2600 end with a late term (after 21 weeks) abortion.

It is inconceivable to me that more than 1% of late term abortions in the days leading to full term result because an individual has changed their mind. If you make it to 40 weeks, you want the fucking baby. Period. Most late term abortions would still occur early on in the third trimester when the people without access or knowing they're pregnant (hurray for our stupid fucking public compounded by asinine sex education laws) finally get their shit together. The remainder of them will be for medical complications that arise later on. We're literally talking about *maybe* 2-3 people per million pregnancies. There is simply no credible evidence that has ever been out forth for this ridiculous emphasis by the "pro-lifers" on these procedures. Out of ~6 million pregnancies in the US per year, we're talking about MAYBE 15-20 total cases, and I'd argue that's probably still to high. Maybe one of them lives in VA?

Should that be illegal? Sure. Is it a relevant thing to prioritize given the myriad problems we have with people dying?

Absolutely not.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

Well no shit.  But the target audience is gonna get all fired up over this because they're fucking stupid.

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19190

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Posted
2 hours ago, elfenix said:

oh good a brain dead discussion of VA' governor's discussion of babies born dead, resuscitated (which doesn't fix the underlying problem that lead to the baby being born dead anyway), and then a discussion between the parents and the doctor as to how best to proceed. WHAT A FUCKING HORROR!  fuck all you pro life assholes who want to make babies and families suffer so that you fucks can feel good about yourselves. go fuck yourself with a splintered baseball bat.  i hope your asshole tears and you can never take a proper shit again.

Again... it's their god, it's their rules... they can burn in hell if they have an abortion.

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