Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery

[cactusflinthead 27,594]

[Aqua Buddha 14,521]

So, is Anne Heche dead or alive?  I mean, she has a heartbeat?  Is taking her off life support murder?

[Goofyboy 3,206]

So, is Anne Heche dead or alive?  I mean, she has a heartbeat?  Is taking her off life support murder?

Nah, fuck that, she’s full of good organs. Time to harvest for other lives. I have no idea if she’s a donor or not. Shouldn’t matter anymore.

[Neonmoon 38,127]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

So, is Anne Heche dead or alive?  I mean, she has a heartbeat?  Is taking her off life support murder?

California law says brain dead is legally dead. 
 

Quote

 CALIFORNIA LAW
Article 1. Uniform Determination of Death Act Section 7180.
(a) An individual who has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem, is dead. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards.
(b) This article shall be applied and construed to effectuate its general purpose to make uniform the law with respect to the subject of this article among states enacting it.
(c) This article may be cited as the Uniform Determination of Death Act

 

[Anastasis 23,394]

11 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

She took that at 28 weeks. Morally reprehensible IMO not sure if legal or not. Fetus definitely suffered needlessly and girl could have easily died from postpartum hemorrhage even with misoprostol

 

and the combo they used was branded Pregnot lol

Got to actually admire the truth in marketing. RU-486. Pregnot. Would be great if the rest of pharma was as honest. 

[HenryJames 65,890]

 

[The Dog 43,808]

1 hour ago, HenryJames said:

 

Just came to post this and this is why Dobbs isn't going away and is going to be a problem for Republicans through November.

These stories will keep coming and the GOP will either have to dig in to an unpopular stance or try to weasel their way out of it and risk alienating the very voters they need to win. 

[elfenix 34,171]

women are wards of the state from puberty through menopause. 

[safe sex 11,684]

Thank God that girl is spared the barbarism of an abortion performed by a safe and trained physician. Phew! Close call, guys, but we made it!

[mchookem 16,224]

... and though she's not mature enough to decide to have a trained physician perform a safe and routine procedure, she's definitely mature enough to be totally responsiblefor another human being who will be completely helpless and dependent on her for literally everything for the next couple of decades or so. whew. im sure the state of Florida will provide them both with ample money, services and support, seeing as how she doesn't even have family!

 

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by mchookem

[miguelito 11,220]

That's some catch, that Catch 22.

[HenryJames 65,890]

Quote

“It’s hard knowing that ... you know I’m carrying it to bury it...you know what I’m saying,” asked Nancy Davis who is 13 weeks pregnant with her second child.

 

[Voldemort86 2,259]

1 hour ago, HenryJames said:

 

It makes me sick that this shit is happening in the first place, but I hope the media keeps breaking stories like this until November. Republicans need to pay for their Supreme Court win.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

If a Democratic consultant doesn’t start using “Carry to Bury” in every ad about abortion then what are they even doing?

[StassneyHorn 6,540]

23 hours ago, HenryJames said:

 

We’re using the word barbaric? Is that right?

[safe sex 11,684]

Much more civilized to put this woman through extreme emotional and physical duress instead of a quick little D&C/other abortion.

Thank God that headless and brainless fetus has the state of Louisiana supporting it 

[washparkhorn 9,935]

“Carry to bury” laws are barbaric.  

[Anastasis 23,394]

 

Some additional details on that case: https://www.nola.com/news/healthcare_hospitals/article_d08b59fe-1e39-11ed-a669-a3570eeed885.html

“There was nothing I would have preferred more than to have this baby,” said Davis, 36. Instead, she prepared herself to pay an estimated $5,000 for an abortion at the hospital.

But that’s not what happened. Even after doctors at the hospital said they would provide an abortion once she got the diagnosis of acrania, a rare and fatal condition, from a specialist, the hospital called to tell her it would not be able to do it, she said. The hospital directed her to a Florida abortion clinic instead, or to carry the baby to term.

Davis' predicament illustrates the gray area in Louisiana's new abortion law and the administrative regulations that attempt to explain it to medical professionals and the public. They all but forbid abortion, except to save the life of the mother or when the fetus is "medically futile," according to a list of conditions issued by the state. 

Acrania does not appear on the state’s list of accepted conditions for abortion. But the state also has a broad exception for any “profound and irremediable congenital or chromosomal anomaly existing in the unborn child that is incompatible with sustaining life after birth in reasonable medical judgment.”

Two physicians must sign off on the anomaly. But Woman’s still said it would not perform the abortion. 

“In the absence of additional guidance, we must look at each patient’s individual circumstances and remain in compliance with all current state laws to the best of our ability,” said Caroline Isemann, a hospital spokesperson, in a statement.

That's not how some doctors have interpreted the law.

“Acrania, to me, is synonymous with anencephaly, and it’s on the list,” said Dr. Cecilia Gambala, a maternal fetal medicine specialist at Tulane University School of Medicine, referring to another brain and spine defect. “There is no skull.”

Gambala said that even if hospital attorneys were uncomfortable with giving the go-ahead for an abortion based on the acrania diagnosis, they could use the broad exception that the state allows for when a fetus is incompatible with life. And acrania, in Gambala's opinion, meets that description. 

[Sawbonz 27,436]

3 hours ago, trauma babe said:

Much more civilized to put this woman through extreme emotional and physical duress instead of a quick little D&C/other abortion.

Thank God that headless and brainless fetus has the state of Louisiana supporting it 

She could literally die to deliver this … I don’t even know what 

[Anastasis 23,394]

Here is the list of exclusions:

 

The list of conditions issued by the Louisiana Department of Health includes several congenital disorders and chromosomal abnormalities. This list also includes a catch-all exception for other “profound and irredeemable” abnormalities incompatible with life, as long as two doctors sign off.

The list of conditions includes:

achondrogenesis

anencephaly

acardia

body stalk anomaly

campomelic dysplasia

craniorachischisis

dysencephalia splanchnocystica (Meckel-Gruber syndrome)

ectopia cordis

exencephaly

gestational trophoblastic neoplasia

holoprosencephaly

hydrops fetalis

iniencephaly

perinatal hypophosphatasia

osteogenesis imperfecta (type 2)

renal agenesis (bilateral)

short rib polydactyly syndrome

sirenomelia

thanatophoric dysplasia

triploidy

trisomy 13

trisomy 16 (full)

trisomy 18

trisomy 22

A profound and irremediable congenital or chromosomal anomaly existing in the unborn child that is incompatible with sustaining life after birth in reasonable medical judgment as certified by two physicians that are licensed to practice in the State of Louisiana.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Anastasis

[wildcat09 29,258]

[WhatTheBuck 28,713]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

She could literally die to deliver this … I don’t even know what 

...would possess anyone who claims to be pro-life to force a woman to risk her own life in order to carry a dead fetus in her womb for any amount of time. I can’t think of a better way to betray the lie that they care one whit about human life. They’re inhumane. 

[Satchel 6,908]

On 8/16/2022 at 12:33 PM, mchookem said:

... and though she's not mature enough to have a trained physician perform a safe and routine procedure, she's definitely mature enough to be totally responsiblefor another human being who will be completely helpless and dependent on her for literally everything for the next couple of decades or so. whew. im sure the state of Florida will provide them both with ample money, services and support, seeing as how she doesn't even have family!

 

 

As if her declaring that she’s not ready for parenthood isn’t enough.

[Captainant 27,467]

Anastasia, flailing wildly to overlook a completely foreseeable outcome from his preferred policy. It doesn't matter if there's some legal exclusion or carve out buried in the text, there's a chilling effect across the entire healthcare industry and actual medical providers that have to hedge against fundagelicals fucking lying and stretching facts to press their religious crusade.

Congrats on big W, you've finally defeated a barbaric practice with no negative repurcussions whatsoever!

[hpslugga 4,044]

16 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Anastasia, flailing wildly to overlook a completely foreseeable outcome from his preferred policy.

Natural consequence of unshakably believing the real world functions in the way it’s described in a high school civics class.

Edited August 18, 2022 by hpslugga

[maninblack 7,974]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Anastasia, flailing wildly to overlook a completely foreseeable outcome from his preferred policy. It doesn't matter if there's some legal exclusion or carve out buried in the text, there's a chilling effect across the entire healthcare industry and actual medical providers that have to hedge against fundagelicals fucking lying and stretching facts to press their religious crusade.

Congrats on big W, you've finally defeated a barbaric practice with no negative repurcussions whatsoever!

Deal with it. It's much better at smaller level. 

[wildcat09 29,258]

5 hours ago, maninblack said:

Deal with it. It's much better at smaller level. 

MIB jerks off to the thought of women dying.

[Goofyboy 3,206]

Deal with it. It's much better at smaller level. 

No, it’s not.

[WhatTheBuck 28,713]

Not surprising. Sinister, but not surprising. (Read the full article.)

States with the toughest abortion laws have the weakest maternal supports, data shows

Nearly two dozen states have moved to restrict abortion or ban it altogether since the reversal of Roe v. Wade — meaning more people, especially those with low incomes and from marginalized communities, will be forced to carry unwanted pregnancies to term.

So are states prepared to pay for the infrastructure needed to support these parents and children? The data paints a grim picture for many families: Mothers and children in states with the toughest abortion restrictions tend to have less access to health care and financial assistance, as well as worse health outcomes.

Stuart Butler, a senior fellow in economic studies at the Brookings Institution, calls the end of Roe "a double whammy" for people who live in these states, which are mostly in the South.

"They are far less likely to have assistance for themselves and their children, and they are far less likely to have health care available to them when they are pregnant and for their children," he tells Morning Edition. "And that means that there's going to be not only more hardship, but greater health problems and maternal deaths and so on ... unless there is a fundamental change in political behavior in those states."

As NPR has reported, a large body of research shows that being denied an abortion limits peoples' education, time in the workforce and wages, with the economic consequences extending well into the lives of their children. One groundbreaking project called The Turnaway Study spent a decade comparing the experiences of people who had abortions with those who wanted abortions but were denied them, and found that those who were denied treatment experienced worse economic and mental health outcomes than those who received care.

Dr. Diana Greene Foster, the demographer behind the study, told NPR in May that the findings show that pregnant people who are unable to get a safe, legal abortion and end up carrying the pregnancy to term will experience long-term physical and economic harm.

"We haven't become a more generous country that supports low-income mothers," she added. "And so those outcomes are still the outcomes that people will experience when they are denied a wanted abortion."

Republican opposition has prevented Congress from passing nationwide measures like federally protected family leave and an extended child tax credit that would expand the social safety net, leaving various forms of support for low-income and vulnerable families up to each state.

Abortion access is now up to states too, after the Supreme Court's ruling in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization. The case challenged a Mississippi law banning abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy, which a lower court had ruled unconstitutional. As of mid-August, 14 states have banned abortions entirely, and nearly a dozen others have moved to do the same.

Even before the Dobbs ruling, the 14 states with the most restrictive abortion laws had the worst maternal and child health outcomes in the country, according to an amicus brief filed on behalf of Jackson Women's Health Organization by the American Public Health Association (APHA), the Guttmacher Institute, the Center for U.S. Policy and hundreds of public health scholars and professionals.

The brief cites poorer maternal and child health outcomes across existing risk measures, including mistimed and unwanted pregnancy, low infant birth weight, infant mortality, child poverty and adverse childhood experiences. (It also notes that Mississippi — at the center of the Dobbs case — ranked last in the Commonwealth Fund's 2020 composite score for health system performances on measures including "overall preventable mortality" and "children without appropriate preventive care.")

These findings are echoed in similar analyses by Evaluating Priorities, the Brookings Institution, the Associated Press, the New York Times and others.

 

Full article here:

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/18/1111344810/abortion-ban-states-social-safety-net-health-outcomes

(How about this little nugget? “North Dakota passed a law last year banning cities and counties from enacting local paid family leave laws. Lawmakers in the abortion ban states of Oklahoma and Tennessee have introduced — but not passed — such legislation.”)

[Anastasis 23,394]

9 hours ago, hpslugga said:

Natural consequence of unshakably believing the real world functions in the way it’s described in a high school civics class.

If there is a singular action that derailed the civics process wrt Abortion in this country it is probably the Roe decision. 

 

[wildcat09 29,258]

14 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Not surprising. Sinister, but not surprising. (Read the full article.)

States with the toughest abortion laws have the weakest maternal supports, data shows

Nearly two dozen states have moved to restrict abortion or ban it altogether since the reversal of Roe v. Wade — meaning more people, especially those with low incomes and from marginalized communities, will be forced to carry unwanted pregnancies to term.

So are states prepared to pay for the infrastructure needed to support these parents and children? The data paints a grim picture for many families: Mothers and children in states with the toughest abortion restrictions tend to have less access to health care and financial assistance, as well as worse health outcomes.

Stuart Butler, a senior fellow in economic studies at the Brookings Institution, calls the end of Roe "a double whammy" for people who live in these states, which are mostly in the South.

"They are far less likely to have assistance for themselves and their children, and they are far less likely to have health care available to them when they are pregnant and for their children," he tells Morning Edition. "And that means that there's going to be not only more hardship, but greater health problems and maternal deaths and so on ... unless there is a fundamental change in political behavior in those states."

As NPR has reported, a large body of research shows that being denied an abortion limits peoples' education, time in the workforce and wages, with the economic consequences extending well into the lives of their children. One groundbreaking project called The Turnaway Study spent a decade comparing the experiences of people who had abortions with those who wanted abortions but were denied them, and found that those who were denied treatment experienced worse economic and mental health outcomes than those who received care.

Dr. Diana Greene Foster, the demographer behind the study, told NPR in May that the findings show that pregnant people who are unable to get a safe, legal abortion and end up carrying the pregnancy to term will experience long-term physical and economic harm.

"We haven't become a more generous country that supports low-income mothers," she added. "And so those outcomes are still the outcomes that people will experience when they are denied a wanted abortion."

Republican opposition has prevented Congress from passing nationwide measures like federally protected family leave and an extended child tax credit that would expand the social safety net, leaving various forms of support for low-income and vulnerable families up to each state.

Abortion access is now up to states too, after the Supreme Court's ruling in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization. The case challenged a Mississippi law banning abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy, which a lower court had ruled unconstitutional. As of mid-August, 14 states have banned abortions entirely, and nearly a dozen others have moved to do the same.

Even before the Dobbs ruling, the 14 states with the most restrictive abortion laws had the worst maternal and child health outcomes in the country, according to an amicus brief filed on behalf of Jackson Women's Health Organization by the American Public Health Association (APHA), the Guttmacher Institute, the Center for U.S. Policy and hundreds of public health scholars and professionals.

The brief cites poorer maternal and child health outcomes across existing risk measures, including mistimed and unwanted pregnancy, low infant birth weight, infant mortality, child poverty and adverse childhood experiences. (It also notes that Mississippi — at the center of the Dobbs case — ranked last in the Commonwealth Fund's 2020 composite score for health system performances on measures including "overall preventable mortality" and "children without appropriate preventive care.")

These findings are echoed in similar analyses by Evaluating Priorities, the Brookings Institution, the Associated Press, the New York Times and others.

 

Full article here:

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/18/1111344810/abortion-ban-states-social-safety-net-health-outcomes

(How about this little nugget? “North Dakota passed a law last year banning cities and counties from enacting local paid family leave laws. Lawmakers in the abortion ban states of Oklahoma and Tennessee have introduced — but not passed — such legislation.”)

No don't you see, they're the ones that really care about women. They just explain how much they care in exactly the same way a wifebeater shows his wife he cares, which all good God-fearing Americans know is the correct way to show a woman that you care about her.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,093]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

If there is a singular action that derailed the civics process wrt Abortion in this country it is probably the Roe decision. 

 

Do us all a favor and stop posting in this thread.  

Edited August 18, 2022 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[wildcat09 29,258]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

If there is a singular action that derailed the civics process wrt Abortion in this country it is probably the Roe decision. 

 

You can keep pretending you don't know the real history here, but nobody here believes you're doing anything but lying.

[Anastasis 23,394]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

You can keep pretending you don't know the real history here, but nobody here believes you're doing anything but lying.

The quoted is not a particularly novel take. It is one that has been suggested by a variety of pro-choice advocates, including RBG. For example...

Roe, on the other hand, halted a political process that was moving in a reform direction and thereby, I believe, prolonged divisiveness and deferred stable settlement of the issue.  

[elfenix 34,171]

republicans finding out government isn't just shits and giggles

Quote

Because the fetus had a heartbeat, lawyers advised the woman’s doctors that they could not perform an abortion to remove it, even though that is the standard and absolutely necessary medical procedure. The only options were to discharge her or to admit her to the hospital and wait for the heartbeat to stop on its own—something the doctor told him could take anywhere from seconds to happen to days. That’s a completely unnecessary, physically and emotionally harrowing experience, not to mention likely financially draining seeing as this woman lives in a country where healthcare is prohibitively expensive.

The doctors sent the woman home. Collins explained what she was left to go through: “First, she’s going to pass this fetus in the toilet. She’s going to have to deal with that on her own.” Then, he says he was told, “There’s a greater than 50 percent chance that she’s going to lose her uterus; there’s a 10 percent chance that she will develop sepsis and herself die.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/republican-lawmaker-just-now-realized-abortion-ban-he-voted-for-has-real-life-consequences/ar-AA10MmSl?cvid=c477b1967d1e4708852053a57fcff206

[wildcat09 29,258]

57 minutes ago, elfenix said:

republicans finding out government isn't just shits and giggles

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/republican-lawmaker-just-now-realized-abortion-ban-he-voted-for-has-real-life-consequences/ar-AA10MmSl?cvid=c477b1967d1e4708852053a57fcff206

Funny how this story doesn't end with him introducing new legislation to allow women in that position to get abortions.

[Voldemort86 2,259]

1 hour ago, elfenix said:

republicans finding out government isn't just shits and giggles

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/republican-lawmaker-just-now-realized-abortion-ban-he-voted-for-has-real-life-consequences/ar-AA10MmSl?cvid=c477b1967d1e4708852053a57fcff206

The Texas GOP willingly let 100’s of people freeze to death in Texas. The GOP is run by a bunch if rich folks who just want to cut their taxes as much as possible and live their private lives as far away from you as possible. They don’t care about you or this country. They never come up with any solutions to solve problems or fix anything. The party is a gaping black hole of conspiracy theories, racism, anger, and hate.

The GOP knows that anytime they want to get something done, that a big minority of the country supports, they can just kick it to the Supreme Court and it will happen.

[pacman 7,330]

here is the video, embedded directly for those who want to watch without following the linked story

[Captainant 27,467]

2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Funny how this story doesn't end with him introducing new legislation to allow women in that position to get abortions.

He probably prefers the anastasia route and just throws random factoids out to avoid talking about the issue itself, and then gets pissy when people don't shut up about it 

[Foosters 17,734]

14 hours ago, maninblack said:

Deal with it. It's much better at smaller level. 

are we still pretending you're a libertarian?

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,843]

This is fine

 

[gyroprotagonist 2,591]

so which state leg member is going to legally marry a fetus first?  these people are fucking sick.

[Js1 85,112]

3 minutes ago, gyroprotagonist said:

so which state leg member is going to legally marry a fetus first?  these people are fucking sick.

Briscoe Cain

[CTC2 2,745]

On 8/18/2022 at 9:08 AM, Anastasis said:

If there is a singular action that derailed the civics process wrt Abortion in this country it is probably the Roe decision. 

 

Don’t you have some mega church that you could be spending your time at instead of here?

[Sawbonz 27,436]

8 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Briscoe Cain

Will be annulled when they overturn Obergefell

[workswithseed 2,037]

On 8/18/2022 at 4:23 AM, wildcat09 said:

MIB jerks off to the thought of women dying.

Me, I don't want babies to be killed.

 

[Satchel 6,908]

This is why the much anticipated red wave could very well appear to be blue:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/03/idaho-abortion-bill-rapist-families

The Idaho House passed Senate Bill 1309, which, like in Texas, would prevent pregnant people from obtaining abortions after six weeks. Idaho’s spin? Rather than empowering any old private citizens to sue to enforce the law, it specifically allows family members of the fetus—including family members of a rapists— to sue abortion providers for up to four years after the procedure, for a minimum of $20,000 in damages. While Idaho has so humanely said that the rapists themselves could not sue, under the proposed legislation, they could get their parents and siblings to do so, as well as the would-be brothers and sisters of the fetus in question. Oh, and apparently nothing in the bill would prevent a rapist with, say, 10 siblings from having every single one of them sue individually and then collecting their cash.

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2,659]

23 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Me, I don't want babies to be killed.

 

 

You're in luck then, because no babies were or are being killed.

[workswithseed 2,037]

Just now, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

You're in luck then, because no babies were or are being killed.

It's fewer now. It was about a million a year.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,843]

13 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

It's fewer now. It was about a million a year.

Bullshit. As per normal you can't even get basic facts straight. Depending on source, we haven't reached more than a million abortions in a year in a decade. If you look at CDC data we haven't broken 100k in 26 years, despite population increase. The overall rate has gone down since the passing of Roe - a lot (and again, with higher population).

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/24/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-u-s-2/