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Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery

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A Cellar Honker

A Cellar Honker 19

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2 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Well no shit.  But the target audience is gonna get all fired up over this because they're fucking stupid.

Then why is there such a problem with laws that make it illegal unless the life of the mother is at stake?  I mean, if they are rare and hardly ever happen, it shouldn’t really matter if there is a law.  And there’s an out included for the life of the mother.  So what’s the problem?

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Bama Chick
Bama Chick

No. Fuck off with that. Not every abortion is about trauma and tragedy and using that framing plays into the christofascist’s hands. Women are humans. Humans have bodily autonomy. Ergo, women have b

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

I do love this argument. I really do. It’s as convenient a way to label yourself a drooling moron as exists, outside of towing around a giant neon “I’M A MORON” sign. No, they didn’t teach us that

hayden_horn
hayden_horn

of course you do. thing is, i would support that. if they choose that. and the real thing is, i'm actually pro life. both my sons were very premature, and had they been born in the 80s, they

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19190

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, A Cellar Honker said:

Then why is there such a problem with laws that make it illegal unless the life of the mother is at stake?  I mean, if they are rare and hardly ever happen, it shouldn’t really matter if there is a law.  And there’s an out included for the life of the mother.  So what’s the problem?

Hijacking is rare and hardly ever happens.  We should not make it illegal.

Idiot.

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19190

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Obvious Russian troll is obviously Russian.

Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply over there does it, comrade?

Wheels turning, buttons being pushed, algorithms being run ... hey comrade, how do I respond?

 

Edited by Fudge Nuggets
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A Cellar Honker

A Cellar Honker 19

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Posted
1 minute ago, tantric superman said:

Women are often afforded privacy and liberty interests which overcome 3rd trimester abortions.  If they didn't this wouldn't be an issue.

I get that.  That doesn’t make it right and it doesn’t make it immune from change.  There are more parties involved here than just the woman.   

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A Cellar Honker

A Cellar Honker 19

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Obvious Russian troll is obviously Russian.

Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply over there does it, comrade?

You have a tenuous grip on logic and reason, don’t you?  How about a reasoned reply instead of invective and ad hominem attacks?  Are you capable of that?

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18856

Posted
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14 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

A Cellar Honker

Last posted before today on November 12.  Now has 5 posts in the last hour.

Had two posts about three weeks before the last elections then went full tard with seven the week of the elections.

Got one +1 rep from tjhooker.  What else we need to know?

The circle jerkery of the right wing socks is very entertaining.

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19190

Posted
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13 minutes ago, A Cellar Honker said:

You have a tenuous grip on logic and reason, don’t you?  How about a reasoned reply instead of invective and ad hominem attacks?  Are you capable of that?

Yes I am, but you comrade have showed your true colors already.

It's very early morning here... I am close to you... I can feel your frustration and smell your fear. 

I shall bid you... good morning, Russian troll.  Once you leave your troll farm and decide to return to your apartment, I will find you on the streets and I will slit your throat.  Then you will have a final warm sleep my comrade.

Sweet dreams, Sascha.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Atx71 said:

Just what the bots want to make you believe. Deep, very deep sleeper....impressive comrade A. 🤔

I see the work release program has granted you weekends off.  How proud you must be to be part  of Polite society, if only for 48 hours a week.  Now scamper on off to Burger Boy.

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Atx71

Atx71 146

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I see the work release program has granted you weekends off.  How proud you must be to be part  of Polite society, if only for 48 hours a week.  Now scamper on off to Burger Boy.

I got the Never Hillary vibe but after 2 years of the buffoon and you still support him;  just makes my day knowing you really are that fucked up. 

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Asithappens

Asithappens 974

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I don't think many (or any) want something like late-term abortion "on demand."  But, what do you do when the mother is severely depressed, or there's a severe fetal abnormality, or medical condition with the mother? 

Ideally, we'd have a health care system that would provide medical and mental (pre-natal) care for that mother. But, in today's kinda perverse world, those aren't priorities. In another perverse, if not hypocritical turn of events, it seems like those who are most adamant about cutting pre-natal care are also those who get so upset about late-term abortion (or any kind of abortion). 

Abortion is an issue of public health. Federal funds should be allowed for (some) abortions, as well as sterilization procedures if the mother wants it (tie tubes, stuff like that). Again, the party who cries the most about black mothers (and let's face it, that's the "welfare queen" model utilized by many) having too many kids and sticking it to the (white) taxpayer are probably those who say those mothers can't have an abortion or even have fed funds pay for getting her tubes tied after she gives birth to her 8th kid. That doesn't make much sense to me. 

But, it gives that group supreme moral satisfaction to be against (all or most) abortion. For some, even if the mother's health is in jeopardy, or rape, or incest. Some even want to put the mother in prison if she gets an abortion. And it's usually men who take this position.

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HOOK'EMHOOAH

HOOK'EMHOOAH 1610

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16 hours ago, A Cellar Honker said:

I get that.  That doesn’t make it right and it doesn’t make it immune from change.  There are more parties involved here than just the woman.   

So when you, as a man, are able to carry a child you can enter the conversation. Her body, her choice. Period.

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Asithappens

Asithappens 974

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, HOOK'EMHOOAH said:

So when you, as a man, are able to carry a child you can enter the conversation. Her body, her choice. Period.

 There are more parties involved than "just" the mother, that is true. But the mother, imo, should have the final say. 

It's rich when politicians, men with no stake in the personal situation, and religious leaders chime in and condemn both the act of abortion and the woman who opts for that path. Some of those are sincere, no doubt, but many, many more are opportunists. 

It's a difficult balancing act, that of what the mother wants and what others want. There will never be an easy decision point on this, imo. I think Roe did a fair to good job in breaking it up into trimesters and the balancing between the state's and the mother's interests. 

But again, and again, and again... the BEST way to reduce the number of abortions is to reduce the number of unintended pregnancies. How to do that? A number of ways: sex education and  available contraception come to mind. 

But guess what? Which political party is against this? The one who cries the most against abortion. And I'm not even going to get into the supreme hypocrisy of the Catholic Church on this issue. (at this point, it's hard to believe that any serious person of the Christian faith would still be a Catholic, but I digress).

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

 There are more parties involved than "just" the mother, that is true. But the mother, imo, should have the final say. 

It's rich when politicians, men with no stake in the personal situation, and religious leaders chime in and condemn both the act of abortion and the woman who opts for that path. Some of those are sincere, no doubt, but many, many more are opportunists. 

It's a difficult balancing act, that of what the mother wants and what others want. There will never be an easy decision point on this, imo. I think Roe did a fair to good job in breaking it up into trimesters and the balancing between the state's and the mother's interests. 

But again, and again, and again... the BEST way to reduce the number of abortions is to reduce the number of unintended pregnancies. How to do that? A number of ways: sex education and  available contraception come to mind. 

But guess what? Which political party is against this? The one who cries the most against abortion. And I'm not even going to get into the supreme hypocrisy of the Catholic Church on this issue. (at this point, it's hard to believe that any serious person of the Christian faith would still be a Catholic, but I digress).

Who doesn’t get sex education these days?   And you must be kidding about available contraception.  That’s fucking bullshit.  Birth control is $10 a month at wal mart.  Condoms are cheap to free.  Plan B is $40 at CVS.  

If there is someone who is of reproductive age and doesn’t know sex causes pregnancy in 2019, then they should be aborted.  It’s not some fucking mystery that requires 100 hours of instruction. 

Edited by Johnny Sack
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HOOK'EMHOOAH

HOOK'EMHOOAH 1610

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

 There are more parties involved than "just" the mother, that is true. But the mother, imo, should have the final say. 

It's rich when politicians, men with no stake in the personal situation, and religious leaders chime in and condemn both the act of abortion and the woman who opts for that path. Some of those are sincere, no doubt, but many, many more are opportunists. 

It's a difficult balancing act, that of what the mother wants and what others want. There will never be an easy decision point on this, imo. I think Roe did a fair to good job in breaking it up into trimesters and the balancing between the state's and the mother's interests. 

But again, and again, and again... the BEST way to reduce the number of abortions is to reduce the number of unintended pregnancies. How to do that? A number of ways: sex education and  available contraception come to mind. 

But guess what? Which political party is against this? The one who cries the most against abortion. And I'm not even going to get into the supreme hypocrisy of the Catholic Church on this issue. (at this point, it's hard to believe that any serious person of the Christian faith would still be a Catholic, but I digress).

The only other concerned parties are the father and the doctor. The father's genetic material is at stake, however  beyond that he isn't required to do anything or able to do anything except try to have an external influence on the situation the mother has to carry the child and do all of the heavy lifting involved with the child actually forming. It's from her body the fetus will get the  necessary materials and nutrients to grow and develop.

The doctor is involved only because they make recommendations based on their medical opinion and may be called upon to carry out a procedure.

I wholeheartedly agree the best path forward is with a robust sex education program.

So while anyone and everyone will have their own views based on their religious background, the situation has nothing to do with anyone except the people I noted above. Those with opinions that are contrary to a choice someone else makes are pretty much irrelevant, as are the opinions of someone like myself. I can't carry a child and I have zero genetic input into a hypothetical child between two other people. I won't have anything to do with the care or upbringing of the hypothetical child after it's born, thusly I (as well as the rest if society) has zero ground to stand up to try and assert some form of input into what someone else decides to do with their body.

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4667

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55 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

I don't think many (or any) want something like late-term abortion "on demand."  But, what do you do when the mother is severely depressed, or there's a severe fetal abnormality, or medical condition with the mother? 

When people think about abortion (like most issues) they think first about how it fits into their current mindset first and think of the practical implications after.

When I first read Roe v. Wade, I thought the response would be that states would require hospitals to create medical review boards who would review all third trimester abortions and provide those reports to the state/counties, and based ont he review, the state would prosecute doctors and hospitals who participated in abortions that were solely for convenience.  This would drive women to dangerous abortion, but less so than when all abortions were illegal.  Instead, we get states creating all sorts of laws that are geared towards driving Planned Parenthood and other organizations out of business and making it harder for women to get any abortions. 

No matter you politics, Roe v. Wade set up a framework to allow abortions and yet limit those in the 3rd trimester.  Instead of letting doctors and ethics guide lawmakers, pure partisan bullshit politics has grabbed the issue and never let go.  And thus the absolutist run the show, when the issue simply shouldn't be handled that way.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

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1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

There are no prohibitions against abortion in the bible. These people are making up their own rules. 

Jesus was mos def in favor of dismembering humans in the womb, and vacuuming out the remains.  He was also a big fan of shooting people up with a benzo, a muscle blocker, and potassium chloride.  I know this cause it's not in the Bible. 

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Atx71

Atx71 146

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Jesus was mos def in favor of dismembering humans in the womb, and vacuuming out the remains.  He was also a big fan of shooting people up with a benzo, a muscle blocker, and potassium chloride.  I know this cause it's not in the Bible. 

But....would Jesus love Trump? 

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Atx71

Atx71 146

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Look man, you ever tried final approach into Jerusalem? You pull that shit off without a lit landing strip next to the embassy and get back with me bitch. 

 

Meh...Fokker F27 landing sideways in a 40 klick ghibli on a Libyan dirt air strip and Jesus knowing you just quit loving him? Now hand me my beer back. 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28779

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16 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Jesus was mos def in favor of dismembering humans in the womb, and vacuuming out the remains.  He was also a big fan of shooting people up with a benzo, a muscle blocker, and potassium chloride.  I know this cause it's not in the Bible. 

The bible actually endorses abortion in the case of adultery and even gives instructions to the rabbi for how to cast the spell to terminate the pregnancy if the husband's suspicions about his wife's infidelity turn out to be true. It's like a test for witches. If the husband is the sire, everything will be fine. If the wife cheated, her uterus will drop. (Look in Numbers 5.)

What part of "the breath of life" do you think applies to an unborn fetus? The bible doesn't recognize an unborn fetus as a person. And after a child was born and became a living, breathing person, it was still considered as property. 

You've never read the bible, have you? Maybe try it before commenting about it next time. 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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On 2/2/2019 at 11:46 AM, HOOK'EMHOOAH said:

So when you, as a man, are able to carry a child you can enter the conversation. Her body, her choice. Period.

Nope sorry, her body with another human inside of her.  It's not just her body, as many times as people say that, it's just not factually accurate.  Her mental state is for damn sure at play in such a decision.

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Mole

Mole 4333

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The philosophical discussions always go nowhere; it's murder vs. her body, her choice leaves little room for nuance. 

It's more useful to think through ways that would significantly lower abortion rates that would avoid the endless ethical battles (I'm firmly pro-life, but I know a brick wall when I see it). We can identify at-risk populations for having abortions, so it seems like targeting them would get the most bang for the buck. My pet theory, that would either be widely supported or widely hated, is that we should pay the at-risk populations a stipend to stay on birth control (provided for free). If they get pregnant, we should provide free prenatal care and continue their stipend if they attempt to carry the child to term. We would then encourage adoption. Essentially, as long as they are in the demographics likely to have an abortion, they would receive a stipend and free medical care.

I get that there are significant ethical issues with paying women like this (although from a pro-life perspective I'd say the benefits outweigh these concerns);  I also get that there are opportunities for abuse (but from a pro-life perspective, who cares?); I also get that it would be just one more government program, which would put the pro-life/fiscally conservative crowd in a tight spot.

I think if the pro-life movement aggressively focused on minimizing the perceived need for most abortions, we could actually make a lot of progress. As it stands, we've had ethical arguments for 40 years and we're roughly in the same spot that we started. At a certain point, the pro-life movement needs to decide that they are actually pro-life and actually seek to save these lives.

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

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Posted

In terms of Sex Ed, I'm 31 and from Georgia. Our sex-ed week in 6th was almost completely abstinence based and did not discuss birth control at all. Our sexual education in the most of this country is a fucking joke if you live below the mason-dixon, I don't care how cheap or easy it supposedly is to access birth control.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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Posted
20 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Well pack it up then, the middle class white guy got decent sex ed. Everything's great.

Along with all the other kids in my class who were middle class, poor, wealthy, black, white, yellow, brown in my PUBLIC school.  

Being a dick must take a lot of time out of your day. 

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6685

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Posted (edited)

I mean it's great that you were lucky enough to receive comprehensive sex ed which does not happen in a lot of places.

I just assumed you were siding with the dumbass Johnny Sack's of the world in sticking your head in the sand because you have it alright.

Edited by Brian Fantana
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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I mean it's great that you were lucky enough to receive comprehensive sex ed which does not happen in a lot of places.

I just assumed you were siding with the dumbass Johnny Sack's of the world in sticking your head in the sand because you have it alright.

You should think more before posting. My remarks were strictly meant as anecdotal to what we received in our school.

I didn't need sex ed to know what a rubber was or how babies are made. If you don't know what it takes to stop a pregnancy today you're not dressing yourself in the morning.

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TDunk

TDunk 590

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You should think more before posting. My remarks were strictly meant as anecdotal to what we received in our school.

I didn't need sex ed to know what a rubber was or how babies are made. If you don't know what it takes to stop a pregnancy today you're not dressing yourself in the morning.

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2103

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Posted
8 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Johnny Sack: Lives in a country where the teen pregnancy rate is the highest in the world by a hefty margin.

Also Johnny Sack: Bros, our sex ed is great! Who could possibly not be getting it? I totally don't live in a dumbass fantasy world!

Yeah, but its continually going down, so he ain't wrong.

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4667

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Got sex ed in the 6th grade, around '76 or so.  We were taught about rubbers, the pill, abstinence, the cost of babies, what they could do to your life if you were a kid, and how they were made.  That was in central Va.public school.

Same here.  In Catholic School.  "Becoming a Person".  Abortion came up.  When I asked a nun what the rule was when a woman was raped and became pregnant, she told me that there never has been a recording instance of a woman getting pregnant from being raped.

"Well okay then," I replied.  Seemed as reasonable as anything else in Catholic school.

Edited by tantric superman
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