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Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery

bad_teammate

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Bama Chick
Bama Chick

No. Fuck off with that. Not every abortion is about trauma and tragedy and using that framing plays into the christofascist’s hands. Women are humans. Humans have bodily autonomy. Ergo, women have b

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

I do love this argument. I really do. It’s as convenient a way to label yourself a drooling moron as exists, outside of towing around a giant neon “I’M A MORON” sign. No, they didn’t teach us that

hayden_horn
hayden_horn

of course you do. thing is, i would support that. if they choose that. and the real thing is, i'm actually pro life. both my sons were very premature, and had they been born in the 80s, they

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 28081

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Founding fathers didn’t state it this way, but this is pretty much why the constitution was written the way it was. Definitely rooted deeply in history and tradition. Remember the founding fathers knew they had protect us from religious fanatics in New England 

 

 

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elfenix

elfenix 34658

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"i thought i was a leopard"

Quote
"I was just your quintessential pro-life Texan," Kailee, 29, told CNN in a recent interview.
"I was raised in central Texas by extremely Republican parents and grandparents," Cade, 31, said. "One hundred percent pro-life."
...
Then, about three months later, they learned that Finley had heart, lung, brain, kidney and genetic defects and would either be stillborn or die within minutes of birth. Carrying him to term put Kailee at high risk for severe pregnancy complications, including blood clots, preeclampsia and cancer.
Even so, they could not get an abortion in Texas and fled to New Mexico.
"I've never felt more betrayed by a place I was once so proud to be from," Kailee said through tears.
"How could you be so cruel as to pass a law that you know will hurt women and that you know will cause babies to be born in pain?" she added. "How is that humane? How is that saving anybody?"
 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/09/health/abortion-restrictions-texas/index.html

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CooterBrown

CooterBrown 18272

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"i thought i was a leopard"
"I was just your quintessential pro-life Texan," Kailee, 29, told CNN in a recent interview. "I was raised in central Texas by extremely Republican parents and grandparents," Cade, 31, said. "One hundred percent pro-life." ... Then, about three months later, they learned that Finley had heart, lung, brain, kidney and genetic defects and would either be stillborn or die within minutes of birth. Carrying him to term put Kailee at high risk for severe pregnancy complications, including blood clots, preeclampsia and cancer. Even so, they could not get an abortion in Texas and fled to New Mexico. "I've never felt more betrayed by a place I was once so proud to be from," Kailee said through tears. "How could you be so cruel as to pass a law that you know will hurt women and that you know will cause babies to be born in pain?" she added. "How is that humane? How is that saving anybody?"  
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/09/health/abortion-restrictions-texas/index.html

Who’s gonna make an easy $10,000?
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Captainant

Captainant 28383

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So a couple of things:

1) apparently that woman in the CNN story has been pro abortion for the better part of a decade through a decade of miscarriages. CNN did some shitty selective quotation from her own self written story of going through the experience, including a bout of cervical cancer. Shitty move by CNN, IMO. 

2) The fucking Dutch government minister of foreign trade is pressing Abbott on our draconian abortion laws (they ban after 24 weeks). Happened yesterday during a state visit to Texas by the Dutch royal family, surprised it didn't get posted here

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Voldemort86

Voldemort86 2259

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9 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/09/health/abortion-restrictions-texas/index.html

Who’s gonna make an easy $10,000?

When she spends 90% of her time trying to slam democrats heads into the pavement because “ R” and because “MAGA”, she will become susceptible to bad things like this happening when the MAGA folks get what they want. Some people are so focused on “winning” that they don’t stop to think about what the consequences will be if their side wins. It’s like those Texas land owners who lived on the border and voted for trump then they were mad when trump built pieces of the wall thru their lands. Well…..what did you idiots expect was going to happen?
 

it’s all about pwning the libs like some kind of demented football team, these folks don’t know that they’re getting taken advantage of and it’s so sad.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28904

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16 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Founding fathers didn’t state it this way, but this is pretty much why the constitution was written the way it was. Definitely rooted deeply in history and tradition. Remember the founding fathers knew they had protect us from religious fanatics in New England 

 

 

Who is that?

I’m in love. 

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Storm the Field

Storm the Field 5359

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10 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Fuck you, Lady G.  Go ahead, double down on this.

 

 

 

The infuriating shit will be the "reasonable" GOP pundits who will point to this and say "see, this would just put us on par with the rest of the developed world. We're not proposing anything draconian here." 

If that's the case, then GOP should propose a bill that bans abortion (with exceptions), nationwide after 15 weeks, but also allows abortion nationwide up to that point. We all fucking know they ain't gonna do that. 

It's such a classic bait and switch.

GOP: "Lying Democrats say we want ban all abortions. But, look we're reasonable, we'll settle on 15 weeks and provide exceptions for rape, incest and medical emergencies. "

A not stupid person: "Oh, so does that mean that anywhere in the US, a person could obtain an abortion prior to 15 weeks?"

GOP: "Of course not, in the 20 or so states with GOP super-majorities, it will be totally banned. This is just meant to make it harder in blue states."

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28904

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7 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

The infuriating shit will be the "reasonable" GOP pundits who will point to this and say "see, this would just put us on par with the rest of the developed world. We're not proposing anything draconian here." 

And while they misconstrue their scripture and ignore the fact that Jewish law from thousands of years ago didn’t recognize an unborn offspring as a person with rights, modern Israel is expanding access to abortion in the wake America’s draconian reversal of Roe v. Wade.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-eases-access-to-abortion-canceling-key-decades-old-mandatory-formalities/

And they’re not alone.

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/04/1096533640/as-u-s-may-restrict-abortion-other-nations-are-easing-access

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Storm the Field

Storm the Field 5359

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2 hours ago, Storm the Field said:

The infuriating shit will be the "reasonable" GOP pundits who will point to this and say "see, this would just put us on par with the rest of the developed world. We're not proposing anything draconian here." 

If that's the case, then GOP should propose a bill that bans abortion (with exceptions), nationwide after 15 weeks, but also allows abortion nationwide up to that point. We all fucking know they ain't gonna do that. 

It's such a classic bait and switch.

GOP: "Lying Democrats say we want ban all abortions. But, look we're reasonable, we'll settle on 15 weeks and provide exceptions for rape, incest and medical emergencies. "

A not stupid person: "Oh, so does that mean that anywhere in the US, a person could obtain an abortion prior to 15 weeks?"

GOP: "Of course not, in the 20 or so states with GOP super-majorities, it will be totally banned. This is just meant to make it harder in blue states."

Big shocker, from the actual bill. It's a ceiling to further limit abortions in liberal states.

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‘‘(1) GREATER PROTECTION.—Nothing in this section may be construed to preempt or limit any Federal, State, or local law that provides greater protections for an unborn child than those provided 25 in this section.

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Dutchrudder

Dutchrudder 11227

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Oh well, would you look at this:

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/Texas-delays-publication-of-maternal-death-data-17439477.php

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Texas delays publication of maternal death data until after midterms, legislative session

Texas health officials have missed a key window to complete the state’s first major updated count of pregnancy related deaths in nearly a decade, saying the findings will now be released next summer, most likely after the Legislature’s biennial session.

The delay, disclosed earlier this month by the Department of State Health Services, means lawmakers won’t likely be able to use the analysis, covering deaths from 2019, until the 2025 legislative cycle. The most recent state-level data available is nine years old.

In a hearing this month with the state’s Maternal Mortality and Morbidity Review Committee, DSHS commissioner Dr. John Hellerstedt said the agency wanted to better align its methodology with that of other states, and that there hadn’t been enough staff and money to finish the review for a scheduled Sept. 1 release.

“The information we provide is not easily understood, and not easily and readily comparable to what goes on in other states,” Hellerstedt told the committee. “And the fact it isn’t easily understood or easily comparable in my mind leaves room for a great deal of misunderstanding about what the data really means.”

In a statement, DSHS spokesman Chris Van Deusen said the agency is reviewing its “internal processes” to try to develop more timely data.

“I expect we’ll be having conversations with legislators about what could be done to speed up the lengthy review process,” he said.

...

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TexArcher

TexArcher 38816

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I'm not saying this is gonna happen.  And it's still not what I would've wished for, because I don't want to see women hurt like this.

But...   Now that we've been taken here against our will...

I can think of no more fitting end for the GQP than to be inches away from consolidating power for a generation, only to have Lindsey freaking Graham get them all kicked out of office because he couldn't keep his little hate boner in his pants for just a couple more months.

Oh, man.  Come on, America.

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Voldemort86

Voldemort86 2259

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13 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

I'm not saying this is gonna happen.  And it's still not what I would've wished for, because I don't want to see women hurt like this.

But...   Now that we've been taken here against our will...

I can think of no more fitting end for the GQP than to be inches away from consolidating power for a generation, only to have Lindsey freaking Graham get them all kicked out of office because he couldn't keep his little hate boner in his pants for just a couple more months.

Oh, man.  Come on, America.

The news cycle churns so fast. Could it be something overlooked in a few days?

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TexArcher

TexArcher 38816

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2 minutes ago, Voldemort86 said:

The news cycle churns so fast. Could it be something overlooked in a few days?

Could be.

But at the very least old Lindsey managed to completely drown out what should've been an amazing news week for them.  Bad inflation report and the market dropped over 4% yesterday, but this abortion fascism is all anyone is talking about.

Good job, ya OG incel.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90544

Posted
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2 hours ago, Voldemort86 said:

The news cycle churns so fast. Could it be something overlooked in a few days?

Probably not. Republicans these days seem hell bent on reminding everybody they want to ban abortion everywhere, and they want to remind people of how awful they can be.

In October, I fully expect them to go after contraception, and I expect our state legislators to talk more about how they want to target women who go out of state for abortions, and businesses that have health care plans that allow for abortions. 

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Dutchrudder

Dutchrudder 11227

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They really should allow that bill to go to a vote in both houses.  Even if it did pass for some reason, Biden isn't going to sign it. Might as well make a whole bunch of them "abstain" or be "not present" for "family emergency" reasons, and laugh at them for the next few months.  

Chrisfarleyairquotes.gif

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C-Man

C-Man 27684

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Posted (edited)
On 9/10/2022 at 5:03 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

Who is that?

I’m in love. 

I don't know. But she is quite rude.

 

Interesting alternative look at Ladybugs' seemingly incomprehensible decision to put the idea of abortion back in voters' minds this close to the midterms.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/13/politics/lindsey-graham-abortion-ban-theory/index.html

(SORRY, THIS IS NOT LETTING ME PASTE THE BELOW AS PLAIN TEXT FOR SOME REASON.)

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(CNN)On Tuesday, South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham introduced a bill that would ban abortion nationally after 15 weeks, with exceptions for rape, incest and when the life of the mother is in danger.

 
Which leads to an obvious question: Why?
 
After all, Republicans have been desperately back-pedaling on abortion almost since the moment that the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade this summer, ending the constitutional right to an abortion.
 
 
 
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GOP candidates have been busy scrubbing their websites of their more strident language on abortion, which, in many cases, helped them win their primaries, as they see the political blowback in the general electorate.
 
Recent polling suggests that while public opinion is more split on a 15-week ban compared to the court's overturning of Roe, which is broadly unpopular, a majority of Americans still opposes the limit Graham is proposing.
 
And Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell seemed, um, less than thrilled at Graham's gambit. McConnell told CNN's Manu Raju that he believed the majority of Republican senators would rather leave the issue of abortion up to the states.
 
The resistance Graham's plan met almost immediately -- and the glee with which Democrats latched onto it -- suggests that it may be short-lived.
 
But it is worth asking: What was he trying to do?
 
Here's my theory: Graham sees that his party is getting clubbed on the issue. And some conservative states now have near-total abortion bans in place. Which puts Republicans running for Senate across the country constantly on the defensive, trying to defend a position that is hugely unpopular with the public.
 
And so, Graham is trying to give Republican candidates something to talk about that he believes threads the needle between keeping the GOP base, which is adamantly opposed to abortion in all forms, happy and not totally alienating the center of the electorate.
 
Graham is hoping to give Republicans a positive talking point on the abortion issue -- something his side can point to as evidence that they are not the intolerant ogres that Democrats have, to date, effectively cast them as in the wake of the Supreme Court decision.
 
The alternate analysis of Graham's move is that he deeply believes abortion after 15 weeks of pregnancy must be banned and that his side has to be on the record on it. Period. But while Graham may well believe that, he is far too savvy to simply roll out this plan less than two months before an election without considering the political consequences of doing so.
 
(Sidebar: The fact that House Republicans are also pushing a 15-week ban -- and unveiled it the same day that Graham did -- suggests a level of coordination that points to politics being behind all of this.)
 
Will it work? It's not at all clear -- especially since Democrats control the Senate, making Graham's gambit somewhat dependent on what Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer thinks is the right political move for his side.

 

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28904

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Mike Pence is all in on the national ban.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/09/14/mike_pence_abortion_bans_more_important_than_short-term_politics_148191.html

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Mike Pence: Abortion Bans ‘More Important Than Short-Term Politics’

Champagne in hand, Mike Pence delivered a speech Tuesday night he had worked toward his entire political career.

The former vice president toasted the Supreme Court for overturning Roe v. Wade,celebrated the lawmakers who had confirmed the conservative Supreme Court majority behind the landmark Dobbs decision, and told those gathered for a gala hosted by the pro-life Susan B. Anthony group in the nation’s capital that they had only reached what he called “the end of the beginning.”

Pence, who harbors his own White House ambitions and who has made the pro-life cause his life’s work, insists there is more work to be done to restrict abortion. The Indiana Republican made that clear earlier in the day during an exclusive interview with RealClearPolitics.

“I welcome any and all efforts to advance the cause of life in state capitals or in the nation’s capital,” Pence told RCP when asked about legislation to institute a federal abortion ban. “And I have every confidence that the next Republican president, whoever that may be, will stand for the right to life.”

I don’t know who the next Republican president is going to be, Mike, but I know it’s not going to be you.

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Horn Dog

Horn Dog 10156

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This is what is amazing to me about the 2 political parties.   Dems lose when  they can’t get their agenda passed.  Repubs lose when they do get their agenda passed.  
The only exception to this rule is tax cuts, and that is only because everyone thinks they are, or about to be top 1%.

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elfenix

elfenix 34658

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Posted
24 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

This is what is amazing to me about the 2 political parties.   Dems lose when  they can’t get their agenda passed.  Repubs lose when they do get their agenda passed.  
The only exception to this rule is tax cuts, and that is only because everyone thinks they are, or about to be top 1%.

*though, publicly, many in the top handful percent loudly claim to be middle class

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C-Man

C-Man 27684

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Um ...

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/20/politics/abortion-bans-murder-charges-invs/index.html

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(CNN)A businessman turned state representative from rural Oil City, Louisiana, and a Baptist pastor banded together earlier this year on a radical mission.

They were adamant that a woman who receives an abortion should receive the same criminal consequences as one who drowns her baby.

Under a bill they promoted, pregnant people could face murder charges even if they were raped or doctors determined the procedure was needed to save their own life. Doctors who attempted to help patients conceive through in-vitro fertilization, a fertility treatment used by millions of Americans, could also be locked up for destroying embryos, and certain contraception such as Plan B would be banned.

"The taking of a life is murder, and it is illegal," state Rep. Danny McCormick told a committee of state lawmakers who considered the bill in May, right after the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade was leaked.

"No compromises, no more waiting," Brian Gunter, the pastor who suggested McCormick be the one to introduce the legislation, told the committee.

Louisiana State Rep. Danny McCormick, pastor Brian Gunter and attorney Bradley Pierce (right to left) urged state lawmakers to move their bill, HB 813, out of committee earlier this year.

Only four people spoke against the bill during the committee meeting— all women. They pleaded with the lawmakers to grasp the gravity of the proposed restrictions, which went farther than any state abortion law currently on the books, and warned of unintended consequences.

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"We need to take a deep breath," said Melissa Flournoy, a former state representative who runs the progressive advocacy group 10,000 Women Louisiana. She said the bill would only punish women and that there wasn't enough responsibility being placed on men.

But in the end, only one man and one woman, an Independent and a Democrat, voted against it in committee. Seven men on the committee, all Republicans, voted in favor of the bill, moving it one step closer to becoming law.

Men at the helm

A faction of self-proclaimed "abolitionists" are seeking to make abortion laws more restrictive and the consequences of having the procedure more punitive than ever before.

Emboldened by the overturning of Roe v. Wade, they say they will not be satisfied until fetuses are given the same protections as all US citizens — meaning that if abortion is illegal, then criminal statutes should be applied accordingly. While major national anti-abortion groups say they do not support criminalizing women, the idea is gaining traction with certain conservative lawmakers. And the activists and politicians leading the charge are nearly always men, CNN found.

What should we investigate next?

Email us: watchdog@cnn.com.

This year, three male lawmakers from Indiana attempted to wipe out existing abortion regulations and change the state's criminal statutes to apply at the time of fertilization. In Texas, five male lawmakers authored a bill last year that would have made getting an abortion punishable by the death penalty if it had gone into law. A state representative in Arizona introduced legislation that included homicide charges — saying in a Facebook video that anyone who undergoes an abortion deserves to "spend some time" in the Arizona "penal system." And a male Kansas lawmaker proposed a bill that would amend the state's constitution to allow abortion laws to pass without an exception for the life of the mother.

While most in the anti-abortion movement believe that human life begins at conception, "abolitionists" are particularly uncompromising in how they act on their beliefs — comparing abortion to the Holocaust and using inflammatory terms such as "slaughter" and "murder" to describe a medical procedure that most Americans believe should be legal in all or most cases.

Why a woman's doctor warned her not to get pregnant in Texas 03:50

Bradley Pierce, the attorney who helped draft the Louisiana bill, said his organization has been involved with many of the "abolition" bills that have been introduced in more than a dozen states. All of this proposed legislation would make it possible for women seeking abortions to face criminal charges.

An overwhelming majority of Americans said in a Pew Research Center poll they don't believe men should have a greater say on abortion policy, but that is what is happening. Experts told CNN that the male dominance fits within the anti-abortion movement's current framing as being focused on "fetal personhood" and "fetal rights" as opposed to maternal rights.

Eric Swank, an Arizona State University professor who has studied gender differences in anti-abortion activists, said his research found that while men aren't necessarily more likely to consider themselves to be "pro-life" than women, they "are more willing to take the adamant stance of no abortion under any conditions."

The most restrictive bills, which don't include explicit "life of the mother" exceptions and would charge those who receive abortions with homicide, have failed to make it to the full vote needed for passage. But others that prohibit abortions even in cases of rape and incest have taken hold in around a dozen states, including Missouri, Alabama and Tennessee, according to Guttmacher Institute.

Republicans have unlikely allies in their fight to restrict abortion at the state level: Democrats

Those laws, CNN found, were also overwhelmingly passed into law by male legislators. While female Republicans almost always voted in favor of the legislation, gender imbalances within state legislatures, as well as the fact that female lawmakers were more likely to be Democrats, fueled the voting gap. And male Democratic lawmakers were far more likely than female Democrats to cross the aisle to vote in favor of the abortion bans, according to CNN's analysis.

The Texas Heartbeat Act, for example, outlawed nearly all abortions in the state when it criminalized the procedure as soon as a heartbeat could be detected — as early as six weeks of pregnancy. While men made up nearly three quarters of the 177 lawmakers who voted, nearly 90% of those who voted in favor of the bill were men.

Encouraging 'sacrificial behavior'

Scott Herndon, a bearded Idaho man and father of eight, once believed abortion was an issue that should be discussed "between a woman and her physician."

He remembers watching the classic 80s movie, "Fast Times at Ridgemont High," and being relatively ambivalent about the fact that one of the characters received an abortion. He didn't become a Christian until 1996, the same year he drove his pregnant girlfriend along the streets of San Francisco on his motorcycle. The pregnancy was unexpected, but that life development, along with a newfound religious practice, led Herndon to spend a lot of thinking about "the miraculous nature of life." Over the years he began to feel compelled to get involved with the anti-abortion movement.

His daughter is now 25, and he and his wife went on to have seven more children. A longtime member of the Idaho Republicans, he told CNN he decided to run for state Senate this year with a mission of fighting government encroachment. Herndon, who touts his competitive shooting experience in high school and college, is a staunch supporter of the right to bear arms and strongly opposes vaccine mandates. He describes himself as a "true family-values conservative," noting that his sons help him with his home-building business while his five daughters live on the family farm, milking cows, and raising chickens and pigs.

One of his longterm goals if elected, he said, is to abolish abortion in the state.

"Success depends on changing hearts and minds," he said. "I liken the effort to Martin Luther King Jr.'s civil rights movement for desegregation and equal treatment of African Americans."

This comparison is one that abortion rights activists take serious issue with. "Let's be clear: appropriating the word 'abolition' is particularly contemptuous," a spokesperson for Planned Parenthood Federation of America said in a statement to CNN. "That word is a symbol of freedom and this group wants to put people behind bars for exercising their right to bodily autonomy."

Abortion rights demonstrators gathered outside the US Supreme Court after the overturning of Roe v. Wade.

Herndon, however, says women should embrace their instinctual "sacrificial behavior."

"If a mother is in a life raft with a child and there's only enough food and water to save one, I'm guessing most mothers would not throw their child overboard and drown them," he said in an interview with CNN when asked about medical circumstances where a doctor may deem an abortion necessary to save a woman's life, such as a cancer diagnosis that requires aggressive treatment.

As part of their efforts to abolish abortion, which is generally defined as the termination of a pregnancy, Herndon and others in the anti-abortion movement are attempting to redefine the term to the "intentional killing" of a fetus.

That way, they claim, the lives of mothers could still be saved as long as doctors make an equal attempt to save the fetus.

Gunter, meanwhile, said he disagrees with the medical establishment and does not believe abortion is ever medically necessary.

Doctors point to a variety of medical situations where an abortion may be needed to protect a pregnant person's life.

Medical and legal experts told CNN this is a dangerous and inaccurate claim, saying there are plenty of situations that could result in women dying or being put through unnecessary bodily harm if explicit exceptions for the health and life of the mother are not included in the laws regulating abortion.

Louise King, a gynecologic surgeon and professor at Harvard Medical School, said the claims are "disingenuous at best and intentional dissemination of misinformation at worst" and questioned why they "can't simply trust medical professionals to do their job."

"Most of these 'arguments' are attempts to impose a minority religious view on the majority of our citizens," she said. "This is not a matter of belief or opinion. This is a highly inappropriate way to use our legislative system."

Conservatives have pushed infant safe haven laws as an alternative to abortion. But few American women use them

An immediate abortion may be needed if a pregnant person's water breaks before 20 weeks, King said, or when patients have pre-existing conditions that could lead to heart or liver failure or they need aggressive treatment for a disease like cancer that would severely harm — if not destroy — the fetus. An "equal attempt to save the fetus" would require putting the life of the pregnant person at risk," she said, adding that it is also not the well established standard of care.

Doctors also note that abortion bans take away a patient's ability to make decisions about their own health and pregnancy, sometimes forcing them to endure pregnancies and deliveries of fetuses that will not survive.

Stories like this are already making headlines as laws become increasingly restrictive. In some cases, doctors are already afraid to perform abortions in cases where a mother's health is at risk, even with so called "life of the mother" exceptions in place. In Texas, one woman learned that her baby had heart, lung, brain, kidney and genetic defects and would either be stillborn or die within minutes of birth. At the same time, doctors warned her that carrying the baby to term threatened her own life, but she says she was still refused an abortion by doctors who said it could run afoul of the state's strict six-week abortion ban. She ultimately drove 10 hours to a New Mexico abortion clinic to undergo the procedure. "I'm still so angry and hurt about it that I can hardly see straight," she wrote on Facebook the next day.

Another Texas woman spoke out about being forced to carry her dead fetus for weeks after suffering a miscarriage. In Louisiana, a woman carrying a fetus without a skull was reportedly not allowed to get an abortion, while another was reportedly denied an abortion and instead forced into hours of labor when her water broke at 16 weeks, long before the fetus was viable.

Idaho State Senate candidate Scott Herndon supports a total abortion ban in the state.

Herndon agreed that the health of the pregnant woman should be considered, but he worries that the medical community automatically prioritizes the mother's life and does not treat the fetus as a person until birth, saying this needs to change. And he said that while locking up women is not his objective, it only makes sense for homicide charges to apply to a woman who chooses to undergo an abortion if fetuses are given equal protections under the law.

As chair of his county's Republican Party, he attended the Idaho Republican convention in July and proposed an official change to the party platform in support of an amendment to the state constitution that would "strengthen" the rights of fetuses.

After it easily passed the vote, a fellow Republican delegate took the floor with a proposal that was not met with the same support. She wanted to make sure an exception was included in the party platform for abortions needed for a woman's physical and mental health, Herndon recounted.

A heated debate ensued, with Herndon describing the proposal as not carefully crafted and unnecessary. The proposal was ultimately rejected by a margin of nearly 3 to 1, according to news reports. The Idaho Republican Party did not respond to requests for comment.

No exceptions

Back in 2019, a bill that would criminalize abortion even in cases of rape and incest was placed in front of Alabama's legislature — a move so extreme that a number of high-profile Republicans initially said it went too far.

When the bill reached the state Senate, 25 male legislators voted on party lines to enact it, and the state's female governor signed it into law.

A federal judge blocked it from taking effect, but it had an immediate domino effect as other states followed suit. Most of the laws, including near-total abortion bans known as "trigger" laws and six-week "heartbeat" bills, weren't able to take effect at the time either, but they are being implemented across the country now that Roe v. Wade has been overturned.

This wave of unprecedented restrictions shows the power of the anti-abortion movement and how the Republican Party has shifted to appeal to a small but fervent group of voters, experts said.

"The idea that a fully human life with full moral worth begins at conception is not an extreme view in the pro-life movement," said Ziad Munson, a sociology professor at Lehigh University who has researched the movements on both sides of the abortion debate. "The real issue is the degree of power the movement has over the Republican Party in the political arena, where such viewpoints have -- at least until recently -- been outside the mainstream."

Anti-abortion protesters gathered at the Indiana State Capitol this summer.

And in recent years, a particular brand of Republican candidate has become more prominent — one that touts the "Big Lie" that the 2020 election was stolen, doesn't trust science and consider themselves to be Christian Nationalists, said Mary Ziegler, a law professor at the University of California, Davis.

"Even a more moderate candidate may feel that they have to toe the line in what the anti-abortion movement is saying, and what (the movement) wants is changing," said Ziegler, who has studied the anti-abortion movement's influence on US politics. "So who you are catering to if you're the Republican Party is changing."

As a result, she said, what would have previously been considered a disqualifying stance on abortion for most voters is one of the issues now being used by a growing number of Republican candidates for state and federal office in the hopes of securing their party's nomination.

During the primary season earlier this year, two of the leading Republican candidates for governor of Pennsylvania said in a debate that they support banning abortion under any circumstances, including if the mother's life is at risk. "I don't give way to exceptions," said Doug Mastriano, who will be on the ticket in November to succeed incumbent Democratic governor Tom Wolf, who has vetoed a number of abortion bans passed by the Republican-controlled state legislature.

Men running for a number of statewide offices in Georgia have also vocalized their support of total abortion bans. "There's no exception in my mind," former football star Herschel Walker, a Republican who is running for the US Senate, told reporters.

Some big-city district attorneys vow not to prosecute abortion cases, setting up legal clashes in red states

Mastriano and Walker have not expressed support for prosecuting women who have abortions. They did not respond to CNN's requests for comment.

While an overwhelming majority of Americans support legalized abortion when a woman's life or health is at risk, Ziegler said the disappearing "life of the mother" exception stems from a deep distrust of both women, science and the medical establishment. The new focus on punishing women for undergoing abortions — as seen in several bills recently proposed — is also only likely to intensify, she said. As abortion providers close up shop in states with bans, it is going to become increasingly difficult to charge doctors if women travel to other states for the procedure.

"That's going to make it more appealing to punish women," Ziegler said.

'Abolitionist, not pro-life'

For pastor Gunter in Lousiana, the "pro-life establishment" is not taking a hard enough stand against abortion.

He told CNN he doesn't think someone can be truly "pro-life" while also believing that abortion is acceptable in certain circumstances. He said he will support nothing short of an all-out abortion ban with homicide charges and that unlike some of his peers, he refuses to sacrifice his principles for political reasons.

Gunter, who "grew up in church in diapers" and is now in his 30s, said in a recent speech that he once believed that opposing abortion simply meant voting for "pro-life" candidates. But when a seminary professor invited him and other men to spread the gospel outside an abortion clinic in 2008, he said everything changed.

Pastor Brian Gunter said he approached Rep. Danny McCormick about the Louisiana bill that included homicide charges for women who receive abortions.

That day, he said he watched 15 women go inside the clinic and "murder their children." One of them, Gunter said, couldn't have been older than 13 and he believed she was being forced to undergo the procedure by her mother.

"She's a child, and her mother pulled her into that clinic," said Gunter. "That day changed my life. I went home, and I was newly married... (my wife) was pregnant with our first child. I'd been seeing ultrasound pictures of my son and I thought to myself 'My God, someone killed a child just like my son, same age as my son, looks like my son. How can they do that?"

After that, he says he began confronting women as they entered abortion clinics every week. And in an attempt to create more sweeping change, he decided to get involved politically. He said he approached Rep. McCormick, who did not respond to CNN's requests for comment, earlier this year about the Louisiana bill that ended up making waves across the country. It even sparked outrage from the largest anti-abortion group in the state — one that Gunter said he had worked for but recently parted ways with because he felt it wasn't doing enough to outlaw abortion.

Gunter's impassioned plea at the committee hearing in May was met with applause, and the vote in favor of moving the bill to the full House ultimately came down to a group of state lawmakers that included a former law enforcement officer, a criminal defense and personal injury attorney and an entrepreneur who makes a living designing "man caves" and selling game room furniture.

Anti-abortion "abolitionists" gathered at the Louisiana State Capitol in support of a bill that would charge pregnant people who receive abortions with murder.

Lawmakers then gathered on the House floor to debate the bill while dozens of supporters gathered outside the chambers in what resembled a church service, reciting Bible passages and swaying together while singing hymns such as "Amazing Grace." Jeff Durbin, an Arizona-based pastor and head of a Christian production company Apologia Studios, which has more than 300,000 subscribers on YouTube, emceed and live-streamed the event. Durbin, who once played Michelangelo and Donatello in the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles franchise and became fervently religious after overdosing on ecstasy, is now "unapologetically seeking to criminalize and eliminate all forms of abortion without exception." He did not respond to requests for comment.

He and five other men addressed the crowd at the state capitol, citing proverbs and describing women who get abortions as murderers.

"We have... a righteous bill that punishes those who choose to murder their children," T. Russell Hunter, the founder of anti-abortion group Free the States, yelled into the microphone, saying that any truly "pro-life" law should hold pregnant women accountable for their decisions — not just the medical providers. "Abortionists do not wake up and go out into the culture looking for children to kill; mothers bring their babies to them to be murdered. They are guilty...they have murdered their children under the color of law and the Lord God hates it."

Hunter's group describes itself as "abolitionist, not pro-life" — echoing Gunter's argument that many in the movement are compromising on their values. "While many who call themselves pro-life agree with us that abortion is murder," Free the States writes on its website, "abortion has not been opposed by the pro-life political establishment in a manner consistent with its being murder." Hunter told CNN this movement is not "about wanting to punish women or something silly like that," and that anyone involved in the decision to terminate a pregnancy should face criminal charges — including fathers.

"Pray for the legislators here," Durbin, who also runs End Abortion Now, said at the capitol rally.

See where abortion access is banned — and where it's still in limbo

But this time, the prayers went unfulfilled.

Inside the House chamber, one of seven men to initially vote in favor of the proposed legislation, Rep. Alan Seabaugh, a Republican who describes himself as "pro-life," apologized for his vote. He said he believed the bill was unconstitutional, "makes criminals out of women." Other Republican lawmakers and anti-abortion advocates in the state also came out hard against the bill, saying it went too far — including a state representative who said her grandson wouldn't exist if it weren't for in vitro fertilization (IVF).

The bill never went to a full vote.

It was the first time such an extreme anti-abortion measure made it out of any state committee, however, and the vocal opposition has not deterred Gunter. He plans to work with McCormick, the Louisiana lawmaker, to introduce a similar bill next year.

Momentum, he told CNN, is only building in the wake of the Supreme Court's recent decision.

 

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