Joe Biden 2021

[tantric superman 4667]

9 minutes ago, landman said:

No doubt they have the right to vote.  But they need to prove who they are somehow, be it a voter ID, regular ID, something.  With the amount of money the government spends elsewhere ($1million a foot or whatever for the wall), a free ID to whomever needs one doesn't seem like a bad thing.  

In fairness, this is the  argument I'm making, but I sympathize with the counter argument that nothing makes sense when half of the elected officials in this country are vile, cowardly scum.  In a world where there were some decent Republicans, we could be sanguine that logic will rule the day.

This argument works if one is willing to wait for some of that scum to be replaced. And again, sympathetic to the argument that this issue goes to the heart of whether they can be replaced.

[jimmyjazz 45952]

11 minutes ago, landman said:

No doubt they have the right to vote.  But they need to prove who they are somehow, be it a voter ID, regular ID, something.  With the amount of money the government spends elsewhere ($1million a foot or whatever for the wall), a free ID to whomever needs one doesn't seem like a bad thing.  

Again, the Republicans are doing everything possible to make it difficult to register to vote, which disproportionally affects voters of color.

I think the Democrats need to be working on ways to counteract these obstacles.  Mobile voting drives in areas not served by registration sites, etc.

[bad_teammate 13195]

25 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

 

"Excuse me, Coltrane, but did you even KNOW Strom Thurmond?"

[Eskimohorn 5635]

People prove who they are when they register to vote.  Proof of residence, utility bills, all of that.  It's not anything new.
Again, the "you gotta have photo ID!  You just gotta!" argument is a solution to a functionally non-existent problem.  There IS NOT a material problem with people showing up to vote at polling places under someone else's registration, nor is there a material problem with people registering under a fake name.
But fine, if you still want to create an enormous apparatus and cost-center to solve a non-problem, then it has to be something that provides ID to everyone.  Even the homebound (and yes, they exist, and 100% have the right to vote.  I know some of these people -- I've delivered meals to them via Meals on Wheels.  They are real people.)  Find a way to guarantee that it is just as easy for them to get a photo ID as it is for them to register to vote, and go for it.
Just know that it's an enormous waste of time and money that doesn't solve any real problem.  It's like spending a coupla billion on measures to prevent hippo attacks in the US.  If it makes you feel better, go for it.  But know that the amount of hippo attacks before and after is gonna be about the same.

That reminds me. After I get robot attack insurance, gonna need to up my hippo attack coverage.

[Poe It Up 126]

12 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

There are millions of them. They are almost all poor, to very poor. You dont know them, because you live in an entirely different world (you should be grateful for that).

And they don’t survive very well. But they manage. And they have the same right to vote that every other citizen has. We shouldn’t take it away from them.

What a bleak existence, the poor souls can’t even buy themselves a drink. 

[GopherRock 1765]

So much love for the 2nd Amendment. So little love for the 24th.

[Js1 85336]

1 minute ago, GopherRock said:

So much love for the 2nd Amendment. So little love for the 24th. other 26.

fify

Edited June 23, 2021 by Js1

[Brisketexan 105139]

17 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

What a bleak existence, the poor souls can’t even buy themselves a drink. 

As if the shitty convenience store in their shitty neighborhood even checks ID.

There's a whole America out there that most of us -- and seriously, thank our lucky stars -- know next to nothing about.

[hobbes2702 13033]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Does anyone here believe that if H1/S1 had voter ID mandated in it that Republicans would suddenly be for it? Or that Democrats would alter the filibuster to pass it?

Because if not... what are you guys even talking about?

Exactly. Giving needless concessions instead of doing what needs to be done.

[bolverk 29672]

57 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

As if the shitty convenience store in their shitty neighborhood even checks ID.

There's a whole America out there that most of us -- and seriously, thank our lucky stars -- know next to nothing about.

Yep. In the summer after the 8th grade, a buddy of mine and I would take his mom's car to a drive-thru place on the other side of the tracks called Chololo's to buy our beer.

[Sawbonz 27561]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

The Affordable Care Act passed in December 2009 without using reconciliation. 

 

Not true

[David Dennison 18860]

2 hours ago, GRHorn said:

 

Joe must know the whip count in the Senate on filibuster reform.

[David Dennison 18860]

38 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Not true

It's absolutely true. 

You're thinking of a bill that passed after the ACA.

[Js1 85336]

30 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It's absolutely true. 

You're thinking of a bill that passed after the ACA.

This.  Sorry @Sawbonz, you are wrong.  The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare/ACA) passed the Senate without reconciliation on Christmas Eve 2009 - Dems had the 60 vote majority to break a filibuster and pass it. 

The bill that passed after that to amend the ACA (Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010) passed in reconciliation in March 2010 because Democrats lost a seat to Scott Brown in Feb 2010 and couldn't break the filibuster with 59 votes.   And that didn't even pass on a party line vote (56-43 with Ben Nelson, Blanche Lincoln and Mark Pryor voting against it) 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Js1

[Sawbonz 27561]

51 minutes ago, Js1 said:

This.  Sorry @Sawbonz, you are wrong.  The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare/ACA) passed the Senate without reconciliation on Christmas Eve 2009 - Dems had the 60 vote majority to break a filibuster and pass it. 

The bill that passed after that to amend the ACA (Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010) passed in reconciliation in March 2010 because Democrats lost a seat to Scott Brown in Feb 2010 and couldn't break the filibuster with 59 votes.   And that didn't even pass on a party line vote (56-43 with Ben Nelson, Blanche Lincoln and Mark Pryor voting against it) 

When did the house pass the senate version?

[Js1 85336]

8 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

When did the house pass the senate version?

March 21. The House doesn’t have a reconciliation process. Passed on a 219-212 vote 

[Sawbonz 27561]

15 minutes ago, Js1 said:

March 21. The House doesn’t have a reconciliation process. Passed on a 219-212 vote 

The bill DD mentioned was never voted on by the house. An act cannot only pass in one chamber. It’s dead. Hence the one that actually passed is titled as it is. And it was not voted on in the house, but “deemed passed” by the speaker, via reconciliation 

[UpperWestside 6163]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

As if the shitty convenience store in their shitty neighborhood even checks ID.

There's a whole America out there that most of us -- and seriously, thank our lucky stars -- know next to nothing about.

Oh my gosh so many of our fellow citizens, millions upon millions, have no idea how much of our society lives. We are in no way, shape, form or fashion living up to the lofty ideals we say we are about as a country. 

[tantric superman 4667]

46 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Oh my gosh so many of our fellow citizens, millions upon millions, have no idea how much of our society lives. We are in no way, shape, form or fashion living up to the lofty ideals we say we are about as a country. 

I think that is absolutely true, and worthy of 1000 threads, but this is about voting.  The Republicans want to decrease the vote to gain power.  The Dems want to increase their power by making it easier to vote.   Many people who generally support the Dem approach are less concerned about raw power than about the right to vote and giving people the opportunity to be good citizens.  I don't see any evidence of any Republican having any ideals these days.

There are lots of poor.  Do you address the voting problem by maknig it easier to get IDs or do you address the voting problem by not requiring IDs?

Either way, that issue has got very little to do with the underlying causes of poverty, or the fact that some of you may feel somewhat superior to people who don't express sufficient angst or knowledge of poverty on message boards.

[Anastasis 23469]

Has anyone actually seen a number as to how many registered voters do not have a photo id?  

 

[tantric superman 4667]

4 hours ago, bolverk said:

Yep. In the summer after the 8th grade, a buddy of mine and I would take his mom's car to a drive-thru place on the other side of the tracks called Chololo's to buy our beer.

When you two pissants complained about them not having Blue Moon, would they say "Mira lo que tenemos y compra!"

 

[UpperWestside 6163]

4 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I think that is absolutely true, and worthy of 1000 threads, but this is about voting.  The Republicans want to decrease the vote to gain power.  The Dems want to increase their power by making it easier to vote.   Many people who generally support the Dem approach are less concerned about raw power than about the right to vote and giving people the opportunity to be good citizens.  I don't see any evidence of any Republican having any ideals these days.

There are lots of poor.  Do you address the voting problem by maknig it easier to get IDs or do you address the voting problem by not requiring IDs?

Either way, that issue has got very little to do with the underlying causes of poverty, or the fact that some of you may feel somewhat superior to people who don't express sufficient angst or knowledge of poverty on message boards.

I think everyone should automatically be registered to vote at age 18. If they want an ID as part of this every citizen should be given a free photo ID. 
 

I have no feelings of superiority over someone who either does not talk about poverty here or might not fully understand the depth of this issue. I talk about it because it needs to be spoke about and made more a part of our national conversation. There are plenty of issues I fall well short of on being better informed on. One such issue would be how to best address infrastructure in a bill and how the end result of it will look 30 years down the road. 

[tantric superman 4667]

I'm talking more about that preachy Spanish motherfucker Brisket.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33870]

nah, we don't need infrastructure. at what point will we have more daily stories of road and bridge failures than mass shootings? I mean, it's gonna happen, cuz Murich!

 

[bolverk 29672]

16 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

When you two pissants complained about them not having Blue Moon, would they say "Mira lo que tenemos y compra!"

 

Lulz. Believe me, we were not picky about our beer and were utterly amazed the first time we tried it after hearing they didn't card. Bud was our preferred beer in the summer of 1985 but I did get the peppermint Schnapps a couple of times.

[Sawbonz 27561]

This MF needs to get busy w EOs and signing statements fuck the obstructionist republican and spineless democrats in the Senate 

[GRHorn 105]

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33870]

uh, yeah, he's right. you're not gonna overthrow shit.

[Js1 85336]

Yeah, a bunch of fat fucking incels with guns against the U.S. military?

You'll be cleaning up dismembered fat legs and scorched MAGA hats from the pavement.

[Biff Tannen 45685]

Truth hurts sometimes. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

 

Trump was on another level of stupid and it often makes Biden look smart by comparison but this clip is a good reminder that Biden isn’t very smart either.

Ah yes, the F-15s that were nowhere to be seen on January 6th, they would have surely saved us if it went differently.  Unless Biden is intending to drone strike Mar-a-lago, he shouldn’t bring up the jets and nukes being deployed on citizens. 

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

Yeah, a bunch of fat fucking incels with guns against the U.S. military?
You'll be cleaning up dismembered fat legs and scorched MAGA hats from the pavement.

[Brisketexan 105139]

Trump was on another level of stupid and it often makes Biden look smart by comparison but this clip is a good reminder that Biden isn’t very smart either.

Ah yes, the F-15s that were nowhere to be seen on January 6th, they would have surely saved us if it went differently.  Unless Biden is intending to drone strike Mar-a-lago, he shouldn’t bring up the jets and nukes being deployed on citizens. 

This. It only takes people with rifles at the right place and time to decapitate the government and declare themselves/their chosen proxies to be the new government.

It helps if they have collaborators within the government and military. Which they do.

[Js1 85336]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trump was on another level of stupid and it often makes Biden look smart by comparison but this clip is a good reminder that Biden isn’t very smart either.

Ah yes, the F-15s that were nowhere to be seen on January 6th, they would have surely saved us if it went differently.  Unless Biden is intending to drone strike Mar-a-lago, he shouldn’t bring up the jets and nukes being deployed on citizens. 

Well, the then-commander in chief of the people with access to the F-15s was complicit in the events of the day, watching it on tv with glee.  

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Has anyone actually seen a number as to how many registered voters do not have a photo id?  

 

First hit on Google:

https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet

Quote

Millions of Americans Lack ID. 11% of U.S. citizens – or more than 21 million Americans – do not have government-issued photo identification.1

Obtaining ID Costs Money. Even if ID is offered for free, voters must incur numerous costs (such as paying for birth certificates) to apply for a government-issued ID.

Underlying documents required to obtain ID cost money, a significant expense for lower-income Americans. The combined cost of document fees, travel expenses and waiting time are estimated to range from $75 to $175.2

The travel required is often a major burden on people with disabilities, the elderly, or those in rural areas without access to a car or public transportation. In Texas, some people in rural areas must travel approximately 170 miles to reach the nearest ID office.3

Voter ID Laws Reduce Voter Turnout. A 2014 GAO study found that strict photo ID laws reduce turnout by 2-3 percentage points,4 which can translate into tens of thousands of votes lost in a single state.5

.... 

Minority voters disproportionately lack ID. Nationally, up to 25% of African-American citizens of voting age lack government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of whites.6

States exclude forms of ID in a discriminatory manner. Texas allows concealed weapons permits for voting, but does not accept student ID cards. Until its voter ID law was struck down, North Carolina prohibited public assistance IDs and state employee ID cards, which are disproportionately held by Black voters. And until recently, Wisconsin permitted active duty military ID cards, but prohibited Veterans Affairs ID cards for voting.

Voter ID laws are enforced in a discriminatory manner. A Caltech/MIT study found that minority voters are more frequently questioned about ID than are white voters.7

Voter ID laws reduce turnout among minority voters. Several studies, including a 2014 GAO study, have found that photo ID laws have a particularly depressive effect on turnout among racial minorities and other vulnerable groups, worsening the participation gap between voters of color and whites.8

What would happen if we applied CRT to our election system?! 

Edited June 23, 2021 by SmokeyTheBear

[atomheartbevo 89666]

10 hours ago, tantric superman said:

Until we go completely biometric (retina scan, chip, fngerprint) photo ID is the most practical way to verify identity.  

If the Republicans ever get back in power and get serious about that, you'll see the big (R) schism if they try to push this through.   Mark of the beast and all of that.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

8 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Well, the then-commander in chief of the people with access to the F-15s was complicit in the events of the day, watching it on tv with glee.  

Honestly, that Biden clip is something I’d expect from Trump, almost verbatim.  Not a good moment for Uncle Joe.

[aggie08 21504]

Yeah, laughing at the fucking morons who actually manage to convince themselves that the reason why they own so many guns is to protect themselves from the government is something that would better be left to me and other comparatively irrelevant citizens. Not the President of the United States essentially saying, "Bring it."

[Anastasis 23469]

4 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

First hit on Google:

https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet

Millions of Americans Lack ID. 11% of U.S. citizens – or more than 21 million Americans – do not have government-issued photo identification.1

That doesn't address my question.  My question was how many registered voters do not have photo IDs. You provided a link to the first thing that you found on google, but it is not responsive. Try harder Smokey.

Presumably there is a large overlap of individuals that are either unable or disinterested in getting a photo ID and those that are disinterested in registering to vote. Just trying to get a grasp on the magnitude of the actual problem here. These data suggest that the number of people that are unregistered and don't really care about voting likely cuts into that number quite a bit.

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/issue-briefs/2017/06/why-are-millions-of-citizens-not-registered-to-vote

Official statistics vary, but a conservative estimate, calculated using data from the U.S. Census Bureau’s most recent Voting and Registration Supplement, indicates that 21.4 percent were not registered to vote in 2014.1

[atomheartbevo 89666]

8 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

People prove who they are when they register to vote.  Proof of residence, utility bills, all of that.  It's not anything new.

And it's not that hard to provide/prove that stuff

If you are going through the trouble of falsifying that stuff to vote multiple times, it's far easier just to get people you know to vote by giving them distorted information, and/or maybe give them a gift card or whatever upon proof of voting.  

That's leads into another thing the GOP doesn't want to talk about - we have arrived at a point where it's safer and cheaper to run misleading ad campaigns to get people out to vote (or keep them home) than fucking around with ballots or hacking into systems, both of which leave trails and open you up to persecution.

[atomheartbevo 89666]

8 hours ago, tantric superman said:

In fairness, this is the  argument I'm making, but I sympathize with the counter argument that nothing makes sense when half of the elected officials in this country are vile, cowardly scum.  In a world where there were some decent Republicans, we could be sanguine that logic will rule the day.

This argument works if one is willing to wait for some of that scum to be replaced. And again, sympathetic to the argument that this issue goes to the heart of whether they can be replaced.

The problem is that "decent" Republicans are not replacing the crazies in Congress, it's actually crazy Republicans who are trying to replace the "decent" Republicans at the urging of Trump.

[atomheartbevo 89666]

37 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Yeah, a bunch of fat fucking incels with guns against the U.S. military?

You'll be cleaning up dismembered fat legs and scorched MAGA hats from the pavement.

Based on January 6, 50% of them will die by heart disease/heart attack, 25% will die by drug overdose, and 25% will die by fucking around and finding out.  And based on looking at the MAGA crowds/Trump rallies, I think those numbers will hold up at scale.

If MAGA decided to march against the US military, just fly some helicopters over the crowds dropping a bunch of bottles of insulin.  People will start scrambling all over the place looking for it, forgetting about why they were there, and probably even fighting each other.

Also, in doing my part to fight the extremists, I'm starting the rumor that if any MAGA types get within a mile of the White House, Congress, or military formations, that the military will wirelessly beam out instructions to their Rascal scooters to shut down, or better yet, the Rascal scooters will shuttle their occupants to the nearest FEMA detention facility.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

That doesn't address my question.  My question was how many registered voters do not have photo IDs. You provided a link to the first thing that you found on google, but it is not responsive. Try harder Smokey.

Presumably there is a large overlap of individuals that are either unable or disinterested in getting a photo ID and those that are disinterested in registering to vote. Just trying to get a grasp on the magnitude of the actual problem here. These data suggest that the number of people that are unregistered and don't really care about voting likely cuts into that number quite a bit.

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/issue-briefs/2017/06/why-are-millions-of-citizens-not-registered-to-vote

Official statistics vary, but a conservative estimate, calculated using data from the U.S. Census Bureau’s most recent Voting and Registration Supplement, indicates that 21.4 percent were not registered to vote in 2014.1

My point being that if you had enough gumption to ask the question, you could search and provide the answer with a simple Google search. Larger point is that there shouldn't be any hurdle to vote, especially ones that disproportionately impact certain groups of potential voters. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by SmokeyTheBear

[GRHorn 105]

12 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Yeah, laughing at the fucking morons who actually manage to convince themselves that the reason why they own so many guns is to protect themselves from the government is something that would better be left to me and other comparatively irrelevant citizens. Not the President of the United States essentially saying, "Bring it."

Yeah you don’t need guns/shouldn’t want them because we can crush you strikes a bad note coming from the President. 

[atomheartbevo 89666]

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

That doesn't address my question.  My question was how many registered voters do not have photo IDs. You provided a link to the first thing that you found on google, but it is not responsive. Try harder Smokey.

Presumably there is a large overlap of individuals that are either unable or disinterested in getting a photo ID and those that are disinterested in registering to vote. Just trying to get a grasp on the magnitude of the actual problem here. These data suggest that the number of people that are unregistered and don't really care about voting likely cuts into that number quite a bit.

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/issue-briefs/2017/06/why-are-millions-of-citizens-not-registered-to-vote

Official statistics vary, but a conservative estimate, calculated using data from the U.S. Census Bureau’s most recent Voting and Registration Supplement, indicates that 21.4 percent were not registered to vote in 2014.1

#1 "I don't want to vote" and #3 "There's not a candidate that inspires me" being almost 70% between the two does not surprise me at all.  This describes pretty much everybody I know who do not vote.

#2, "haven't gotten around to it" is a huge thing, and I'm surprised it's not bigger.  It's amazing how many people leave things they need to do until the last minute.  I have a cousin who manages a Randalls, and they do a Monopoly contest every year - you collect the game pieces over 3 or 4 months or whatever, and there's a deadline to finish picking up the game pieces, there's a deadline to use the coupons/collect the prizes/free products.  I mentioned it recently to him, and he said it's stunning how many people who, rather than use the game pieces (coupons, free products, etc.)( as they get them, they wait until right before the deadline.  It applies in other areas - I know plenty of relatives/friends who wait on everything from dental appointments to health checkups to preventative maintenance on their cars until the last minute.

 

[Anastasis 23469]

11 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

My point being that if you had enough gumption to ask the question, you could search and provide the answer with a simple Google search.

I searched and have not seen the specific data I asked about.  Thus I asked about it.  A few very narrow studies in MI and TX but nothing that broadly gets at the scope of the issue. You banged your fingers on your keyboard and found something in google that is not relevant, and then tell me that my query is easily addressable in google.  You don't have a point, just clown shoes. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Anastasis

[JimmyJames 12271]

11 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Yeah you don’t need guns/shouldn’t want them because we can crush you strikes a bad note coming from the President. 

An alleged “bad note” from the president coming from you is pretty rich given that during the entire four years of the trump disaster you didn’t say shit about “bad notes.” 

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

Just now, Anastasis said:

I searched and have not seen the specific data I asked about.  Thus I asked about it.  You banged your fingers on your keyboard and found something in google that is not relevant, and then tell me that my query is easily addressable in google.  You don't have a point, just clown shoes. 

I think I quoted many points from the article relevant to this and other threads around how many don't have IDs (granted, didn't take into account your qualifier), legislation that disenfranchises voters, and that do so disproportionately for certain races. You're welcome. 

[workswithseed 2106]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

 

Yes you could buy cannons.

[David Dennison 18860]

On 6/16/2021 at 2:14 PM, Anastasis said:

If trump just cleared the way for EU dependency on Russian energy you guys would be losing your kinds. Just not sure why you hand wave now. Other than you are just a dishonest hack. 

It's like you don't understand politics.