Joe Biden 2021

[workswithseed 2106]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It's like you don't understand politics.

D good R bad.

[Anastasis 23469]

So this starts to get to the issue and represents data from Texas...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lz7zvtyxxfe5if8/FragaMiller_TXID_2018.pdf?dl=0

This looks at 2016 voting in Texas, which provides a unique dataset since a federal court order allowed voters without ID to vote, they just had to fill out a piece of paper that said why they didn't have ID. 

Here are a few of the relevant tables.

Of the ~8.8MM voters in 2016 only about 15k were unable to provide an ID and filed the alternate paper declaration. 

 

 

 

Here are the reasons included on the RID form. 

 

 

And here are the response details for the other category. 

 

 

[Anastasis 23469]

N=81 out of 8.8MM said cost was an issue. 

[David Dennison 18860]

46 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

D good R bad.

It ain't rocket surgery.

[Anastasis 23469]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

It's like you don't understand politics.

You are frustrating generally, but the honesty is acknowledged and appreciated.   

Edited June 23, 2021 by Anastasis

[TwiceHorn 31470]

9 hours ago, landman said:

No doubt they have the right to vote.  But they need to prove who they are somehow, be it a voter ID, regular ID, something.  With the amount of money the government spends elsewhere ($1million a foot or whatever for the wall), a free ID to whomever needs one doesn't seem like a bad thing.  

As a purely abstract proposition, I am in favor of voter ID.  Every citizen should probably have a state-issued ID.  I am not in favor of a national ID.

However, how long have we had photo DLs and similar in this country?  Sixty years?  At least?  And, no one previously thought it necessary to require photo identification to vote, and in that time, we have had thousands of elections without serious contentions or proof of widespread voter fraud.

I will give you one guess why it is an issue now.

[TwiceHorn 31470]

2 hours ago, Js1 said:

Well, the then-commander in chief of the people with access to the F-15s was complicit in the events of the day, watching it on tv with glee.  

Well, not to mention that, in the absence of declared war, it is unconstitutional to use military force against US citizens on US soil.

[aggie08 21504]

20 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

As a purely abstract proposition, I am in favor of voter ID.  Every citizen should probably have a state-issued ID.  I am not in favor of a national ID.

However, how long have we had photo DLs and similar in this country?  Sixty years?  At least?  And, no one previously thought it necessary to require photo identification to vote, and in that time, we have had thousands of elections without serious contentions or proof of widespread voter fraud.

I will give you one guess why it is an issue now.

[GRHorn 105]

4 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

uh, yeah, he's right. you're not gonna overthrow shit.

 

[workswithseed 2106]

14 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

 

Didn't the findings say that there were a few guns by the Capital, but nothing at the building?

Quote

“I mean ‘armed,’ when you hear ‘armed,’ don’t you think of firearms?” Johnson said. “Here’s the questions I would have liked to ask. How many firearms were confiscated? How many shots were fired? I’m only aware of one, and I’ll defend that law enforcement officer for taking that shot. It was a tragedy, OK? But I think there was only one.”

Johnson asked Sanborn those questions at the March 3 joint oversight committee hearing investigating the riot.

Asked how many firearms were confiscated in the Capitol or on its grounds on Jan. 6, Sanborn said, “To my knowledge we have not recovered any on that day from any of the arrests at the scene at this point. But I don’t want to speak on behalf of Metro and Capitol police, but to my knowledge none.”

Sanborn later noted that investigators found a firearm in a search of a vehicle that also had Molotov cocktails. The only shots fired that day, she said, were from an officer who shot and killed a woman inside the Capitol.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by workswithseed

[David Dennison 18860]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

You are frustrating generally, but the honesty is acknowledged and appreciated.   

It's OK if my side does it. It's not OK if the other side does it. That's politics in a nutshell.

[Anastasis 23469]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It's OK if my side does it. It's not OK if the other side does it. That's politics in a nutshell.

Yes, I understand. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Trash

[Biff Tannen 45685]

13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trash

Unacceptable. Joe, grow a fucking brain and understand that you do not negotiate with terrorists. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

49 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It's OK if my side does it. It's not OK if the other side does it. That's politics in a nutshell.

Truer words may have never been spoken. Seriously.

[GRHorn 105]

22 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Unacceptable. Joe, grow a fucking brain and understand that you do not negotiate with terrorists. 

Ok so what would you suggest instead?

[aggie08 21504]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

 

This is pretty fucking dumb.

[workswithseed 2106]

5 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

This is pretty fucking dumb.

So was democracy not in trouble on January 6th? What's dumb?

[Captainant 27667]

9 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

So was democracy not in trouble on January 6th? What's dumb?

No, that you're parroting a right-wing meme that the fascist insurrection, which included a coordinated planting of bombs to draw away police resources, was unarmed. Which is pretty fucking dumb.

[TwiceHorn 31470]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

No, that you're parroting a right-wing meme that the fascist insurrection, which included a coordinated planting of bombs to draw away police resources, was unarmed. Which is pretty fucking dumb.

And, regardless of how successful or unsuccessful the insurrection was at "toppling the government," the issue is the intention to do so.  Egged on by an infantile lunatic.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I mean, armed or unarmed, Biden’s statement has some serious issues with the reality of recent history.  

[TwiceHorn 31470]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I mean, armed or unarmed, Biden’s statement has some serious issues with the reality of recent history.  

Agreed.  The notion that an armed populace can at least threaten if not overthrow the government is not as outmoded as some would believe.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

13 minutes ago, Captainant said:

No, that you're parroting a right-wing meme that the fascist insurrection, which included a coordinated planting of bombs to draw away police resources, was unarmed. Which is pretty fucking dumb.

Come on Captainant, even you have to admit what Biden said is ripe for ridicule, whether or not you want to go all-in on the idea he was talking out of both sides of his mouth or not.

I won't be the one to ridicule it because it's not my place, but it's funny when others do.

Edited June 24, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[aggie08 21504]

10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

And, regardless of how successful or unsuccessful the insurrection was at "toppling the government," the issue is the intention to do so.  Egged on by an infantile lunatic.

Exactly. No one thought that that band of idiots was going to overthrow the government by physical force. They were going to stop the count, maybe kill a few congressmen/hostages along the way, and have traitors in the House and Senate try to use that delay to change the results of an election by means of ??? who the fuck knows (but probably more intimidation, bullshit litigation, the insurrection act...it was all on the table). At the behest and instigation of a cult leader. That was the threat.

Plus, punchlines like that are just another pathetic attempt to minimize Jan 6. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

4 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Exactly. No one thought that that band of idiots was going to overthrow the government by physical force. They were going to stop the count, maybe kill a few congressmen/hostages along the way, and have traitors in the House and Senate try to use that delay to change the results of an election by means of ??? who the fuck knows (but probably more intimidation, bullshit litigation, the insurrection act...it was all on the table). At the behest and instigation of a cult leader. That was the threat.

Plus, punchlines like that are just another pathetic attempt to minimize Jan 6. 

I agree with your take, but the incongruence is the earnestness in which people were breathlessly lamenting about the "end of democracy as we know it" and "the treasonous insurrection" and "coup de force". The press and hysterical people gave a few hundred insane John McAfee types the power and efficacy of an organized military coup, which has always been extremely odd to me.

Edited June 24, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[workswithseed 2106]

28 minutes ago, Captainant said:

No, that you're parroting a right-wing meme that the fascist insurrection, which included a coordinated planting of bombs to draw away police resources, was unarmed. Which is pretty fucking dumb.

It's a joke, Biden shouldn't had said that. If he wants to better than Trump, than he shouldn't insinuate that he would be able to destroy us as we are now with the government firepower, and not talk about George Washington allowing cannons to be bought by merchant ships.

 

 

[Captainant 27667]

21 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I agree with your take, but the incongruence is the earnestness in which people were breathlessly lamenting about the "end of democracy as we know it" and "the treasonous insurrection" and "coup de force". The press and hysterical people gave a few hundred insane John McAfee types the power and efficacy of an organized military coup, which has always been extremely odd to me.

It's more that we have failed to hold accountable those who used the levers of government to attack the government. That's a failure of our democracy by my view.

If there are no consequences for those who stood to directly benefit from the rebellion they incited, there's nothing stopping it from happening again. 

[Gengs1 2583]

Let’s see how far the Dems take it up the poop hole with the infrastructure and compromise.
In end Rs get everything and Dems will get take it up again with pleasure 

[bad_teammate 13195]

Hope you guys like expanding police budgets and black people in jail, because Jailin' Joe is playing the hits!
 

 

 

[David Dennison 18860]

Good thing Joe Biden can't pass a single law.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Might as well build a border wall and ban the Muslims again. You know, for the politics.  

[Js1 85336]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Might as well build a border wall and ban the Muslims again. You know, for the politics.  

Your hysterical teenage temper tantrums are by far the best part of the Biden admin. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I wish I could value your posts. 

[jimmyjazz 45952]

10 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I agree with your take, but the incongruence is the earnestness in which people were breathlessly lamenting about the "end of democracy as we know it" and "the treasonous insurrection" and "coup de force". 

I haven't heard anyone serious use "coup de force", but "treasonous insurrection" isn't far off the mark.  The phrase "end of democracy as we know it" is almost always used in the context of a potential end-around on the vote count implemented by local and state Republican leaders.  So far, that hasn't happened, but I don't think it's hyperbole to suggest that it would indeed represent a dangerous sea change in the way elections are administered.

[bad_teammate 13195]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Good thing Joe Biden can't pass a single law.

that funding will absolutely get passed

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

You see, the strategy is to lose the House in 2022 and blame it on the “defund the police” progressives.  Biden is orchestrating a master class of 3D chess here guys. Just you watch. 

[Eskimohorn 5635]

Unacceptable. Joe, grow a fucking brain and understand that you do not negotiate with terrorists. 

There are only 48 democrats in the Senate (with 2 DINOS). What is Biden gonna do? Hold his breathe until he gets what he wants?

Regarding infrastructure, the GOP made some lucid points that it covered more than just bridges and roads (not that I agree).

Lets get on the same page here, wake up and realize there’s only one party anymore. Our democracy is under siege and being hypercritical over the existing party is counterproductive.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, Eskimohorn said:

Our democracy is under siege and being hypercritical over the existing party is counterproductive.

When the Republicans take total control it will be because the democrats were weak.  
Pointing out Dems dawdling and incompetence isn’t going to do more damage than the dawdling and incompetence. 

[thrillhammer 683]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Good thing Joe Biden can't pass a single law.

it's quite possible neither party ever has 60 senators again.  that means we're in gridlock forever.   the only way a president can effect change in this scenario is by executive order.  so that's where we are for as far as the eye can see.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, thrillhammer said:

it's quite possible neither party ever has 60 senators again.  that means we're in gridlock forever.   the only way a president can effect change in this scenario is by executive order.  so that's where we are for as far as the eye can see.  

McConnell will abolish the filibuster without question when it suits him. He doesn’t give a shit. 

[Js1 85336]

2 minutes ago, thrillhammer said:

it's quite possible neither party ever has 60 senators again.  that means we're in gridlock forever.   the only way a president can effect change in this scenario is by executive order.  so that's where we are for as far as the eye can see.  

Until the Democrats have 52 and can bypass Manchin and Sinema and remove the filibuster.  But it won't be this year or next year. 

The GOP will never get rid of it or they would have after the Obamacare repeal disaster. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33870]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I wish I could value your posts. 

sorry, but he's not wrong. your posts are a beating

[David Dennison 18860]

25 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

When the Republicans take total control it will be because the democrats were weak.  
Pointing out Dems dawdling and incompetence isn’t going to do more damage than the dawdling and incompetence. 

What's funny is Republicans think the exact same thing about Republicans.

[Js1 85336]

29 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

McConnell will abolish the filibuster without question when it suits him. He doesn’t give a shit. 

No he won't.  Republicans are not serious about passing legislation that can't be done in reconciliation.   They are not going to make it easier for Democrats to pass legislation the next time they hold the chamber by being the ones to abolish it.  They have it set up for perfection for their priorities:  the Federal Judiciary only needs 51 votes to confirm and you can do all your stupid tax shit in reconciliation with the barest majority.  

They want Democrats to make the politically divisive move to abolish the filibuster so the GOP can use it as a weapon during the next campaign cycle.  They aren't going to help them achieve their goal. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Js1

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Just now, Js1 said:

.....so the GOP can use it as a weapon ...... 

It has been noted before in this forum that the GOP is fighting a war and the Democratic Party is *picking berries.

 

 

*(in reference to the German and later Soviet propaganda regarding the Polish cavalry during WWII.) Except in this case I'm not so sure it's propaganda.

Spoiler

The first and perhaps best known cavalry charge happened on September 1, 1939, during the Battle of Krojanty. During this action, elements of the 18th Pomeranian Uhlan Regiment met a large group of German infantry resting in the woods near the village of Krojanty. Colonel Mastalerz decided to take the enemy by surprise and immediately ordered a cavalry charge, a tactic the Polish cavalry rarely used as their main weapon. The charge was successful and the German infantry unit was dispersed.

The same day, German war correspondents were brought to the battlefield together with two journalists from Italy. They were shown the battlefield, the corpses of Polish cavalrymen and their horses, alongside German tanks that had arrived at the field of battle only after the engagement. One of the Italian correspondents sent home an article,[6] in which he described the bravery and heroism of Polish soldiers, who charged German tanks with their sabres and lances. Other possible source of the myth is a quote from Heinz Guderian's memoirs, in which he asserted that the Pomeranian Brigade had charged on German tanks with swords and lances.[7] Although such a charge did not happen and there were no tanks used during the combat, the myth was disseminated by German propaganda during the war with a staged Polish cavalry charge shown in their 1941 reel called "Geschwader Lützow".[1] After the end of World War II the same fraud was again being disseminated by Soviet propaganda as an example of the stupidity of Polish commanders and authorities, who allegedly did not prepare their country for war and instead wasted the blood of their soldiers.[citation needed]

Even such prominent German writers as Günter Grass, later accused of anti-Polonism by Jan Józef Lipski among others, were falling victims to this Nazi deception. Grass wrote the following passage, somewhat metaphorically, in his famous novel The Tin Drum:

"O insane cavalry!—picking blueberries on horseback. With wimpled lances, red and white. Squadrons of melancholy and tradition. Picture-book charges. Over the fields of Lodz and Kuno. Modlin, freeing the fortress. Galloping so brilliantly. Always awaiting the setting sun. Only then does the cavalry attack, when both foreground and background are splendid, for battle is so picturesque, and Death the artist's model, one leg engaged and one leg free, then plunging, nibbling blueberries, rose- hips tumble and burst, release the itch that spurs the cavalry to charge. Uhlans, itching again, wheel their horses about where shocks of straw are standing—this too a striking image—and gather round a man called Don Quixote in Spain, but this one's name is Pan Kichot, a pureblood Pole of sad and noble mien, who's taught his uhlans how to kiss a lady's hand on horseback, so now they always kiss the hand of Death as if he were a lady, but gather first with sunset at their backs—for atmosphere and mood are their reserves—the German tanks before them, stallions from the stud farms of Krupp von Bohlen and Halbach, nobler steeds there never were. But that half-Spanish, half-Polish knight so in love with death—brilliant Pan Kichot, too brilliant—lowers his red-white wimpled lance, bids you all to kiss the lady's hand, cries out so that the evening glows, red-white storks clatter on the rooftops, cherries spit out their pits, and he cries to the cavalry, "Ye noble Poles on horseback, those are not tanks of steel, they are windmills or sheep. I bid you all to kiss the lady's hand!"[8]

On 1 September 2009 Sir Simon Jenkins, writing for The Guardian newspaper's website, characterised the notion of pitting Polish cavalry against tanks as "the most romantic and idiotic act of suicide of modern war."[9] On 21 September 2009, The Guardian was forced to publish an admission that his article "repeated a myth of the second world war, fostered by Nazi propagandists, when it said that Polish lancers turned their horses to face Hitler's panzers. There is no evidence that this occurred."

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

17 minutes ago, Js1 said:

They want Democrats to make the politically divisive move to abolish the filibuster so the GOP can use it as a weapon during the next campaign cycle.  They aren't going to help them achieve their goal. 

Ah yes, the filibuster, noted thing republican voters will be enraged about for 18 months straight if democrats abolish it.  Therefore, democrats should strategically play defense.  
 

Do you listen to yourself?  
 

 

[Sawbonz 27561]

18 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

This. It only takes people with rifles at the right place and time to decapitate the government and declare themselves/their chosen proxies to be the new government.

It helps if they have collaborators within the government and military. Which they do.

Name the flag officer collaborators, because no insurrection is going to succeed without them

I worry a bit about the traitors in the House, but I don’t think there are enough to overturn EC results leading to a Dem win, and I think the Dems are going to hold the house if not make gains in 2022. 
 

I worry the most that a couple of Republican controlled state legislatures in 2024 give their EV to the Republican nominee who lost their state. In this scenario I can see the generals sorting it out in favor of the legitimate Dem winner, but they might say hey maybe we should run things for a while 

[bad_teammate 13195]

1 hour ago, Eskimohorn said:

There are only 48 democrats in the Senate (with 2 DINOS). What is Biden gonna do? Hold his breathe until he gets what he wants?

He could try leading.

[Eskimohorn 5635]

He could try leading.

And what does that look like? Complaining he cant get his way? Calling people out? What specific thing should he do that’s not already being done or would likely backfire (like pressuring the 2 DINOs).

[Biff Tannen 45685]

1 hour ago, Eskimohorn said:

Lets get on the same page here, wake up and realize there’s only one party anymore. Our democracy is under siege and being hypercritical over the existing party is counterproductive.

I feel like we are saying the same thing.  Joe going back to the "negotiating table" over and over is not productive.  Rs are a terrorist party and should be treated as such.