Joe Biden 2021

[Incredulity 11664]

7 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

 

 

Fighting retreats are hell on a military force. The Battle of Chosin (North Korea) saw the Army and Marines conducting a fighting retreat and it was brutal on the Americans as the Chinese poured across the border to confront the Americans. 

This is very reminiscent of the last days in Vietnam.  

Difference being we weren’t in an active engagement with the Taliban.  You know because of the whole agreement thing.

[Anastasis 23469]

11 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Do you think Joe was the one drawing up these plans? lol

No, that's US military brass, baby

They never wanted to leave. They still don’t. Joe should make heads roll. Absolutely no excuse for this shit show of an exit. 

[Anastasis 23469]

dp like sa’s mom. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Anastasis

[Bookman 4639]

11 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Biden is the commander in chief.  He should be in a home somewhere watching Matlock and having his tapioca pudding before his 5:00 bedtime.  But you fools elected this incompetent.

Maybe Republicans should have nominated somebody better. You know, like someone who isn't a corrupt, incompetent, failed-businessman. Or at least someone who's not a fat fuck.

I heard so much talk about how important the 2020 election was, yet Republicans put forth a very weak candidate. Bold strategy there.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Bookman

[aggie08 21496]

13 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Biden is the commander in chief.  He should be in a home somewhere watching Matlock and having his tapioca pudding before his 5:00 bedtime.  But you fools elected this incompetent.

This is so pathetically laughable. Yep, it's our fault for electing a guy who approved a shitty plan. The alternative would have been so much better, right? God damn, even the biggest Trump supporters don't laud him for his superior planning skills and well thought out, meticulously crafted and executed strategory. They love him because he flies by the seat of his pants. The same shit would have happened--or worse--and he would have been tweeting out how disappointed he is in his generals who didn't listen to his beautiful (non-existent) plan.

Dumbfuck, there's a reason why he set the exit date into what would have been his 2nd term. He wanted to avoid the inevitable black eye before an election that Joe is rightfully taking now.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

11 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Please stop engaging the blue collar, man of the people who inherited a fucking grocery chain.  Just stop quoting him.

Wait, what. What's the story here?

[jimmyjazz 45898]

Republicans freaked out a few weeks into Biden's presidency when he announced he was going to delay withdrawal past the May deadline.  Now they're freaking out about the August withdrawal.

This is not to say the plan was good, either as "drawn up" by the Trump administration or as modified (if at all) by the Biden administration.  A shitshow is a shitshow, but at least be consistent about the end goal and the timing to reach it.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

23 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Republicans freaked out a few weeks into Biden's presidency when he announced he was going to delay withdrawal past the May deadline.  Now they're freaking out about the August withdrawal.

This is not to say the plan was good, either as "drawn up" by the Trump administration or as modified (if at all) by the Biden administration.  A shitshow is a shitshow, but at least be consistent about the end goal and the timing to reach it.

This is gaslighting.  It is not the "when", it is the "how".

[kevwun 15774]

No, it's the who.  Joe Biden did something, therefore you have a problem with it.

[gmr548 16576]

Most of the resident trumpers on this site are very clearly mouth breathing aggy morons. Johnny Sack is not that, and is a good poster outside of drive by nonsense like this and CRing the DT. Overt partisanship clearly driving the incoherent “argument” here. Sad!

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 hours ago, kevwun said:

No, it's the who.  Joe Biden did something, therefore you have a problem with it.

It isn't leaving.  It is his screwing up the leaving.  Was there a rational reason behind abandoning Bagram? Seems like that place could have come in handy right about now.....

[bad_teammate 13194]

5 hours ago, Anastasis said:

They never wanted to leave. They still don’t. Joe should make heads roll. Absolutely no excuse for this shit show of an exit. 

Lot of truth to this probably

I'm well known as a Biden-disliker, but a president isn't planning this shit. They tell the generals and such to make X happen and it's the job of the generals and such to make X happen

They're fuckups.

Losers. Sad.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

There were zero ways to do this well. Anybody who says otherwise is a dumbass.

I was pleasantly surprised to discover that Biden said as much to Obama way back when. 

In fact, as the bro-iest of Bernie Bros, I was prepared to criticize Biden right and left for all manner of things including being beholden to our bloated military.

I am genuinely pleased as punch for having underestimated the man. Getting better than expected performance from a president is so novel I don't even have the first clue how to respond, except with a hearty "Thank you" to the man.

[TwiceHorn 31449]

41 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Lot of truth to this probably

I'm well known as a Biden-disliker, but a president isn't planning this shit. They tell the generals and such to make X happen and it's the job of the generals and such to make X happen

They're fuckups.

Losers. Sad.

Dopes.  Babies.

That aside, I think a) they do more or less want to stay and b) they keep counting on the POTUS not having the will to pull out so they don't flesh out and prepare their plans to actually execute.

Meaning, this probably would have happened to any POTUS that actually, sweatergawd, mean-it-this-time, withdrew from Afghanistan.

Edited August 17, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[jimmyjazz 45898]

Sometimes POTUS has an active and negative effect on foreign policy missions.  See, for instance, Jimmy Carter and the disaster in the desert.  I'm not sure we're at the point yet where we can say Biden has significant fingerprints on the method behind this madness.

[dcar00 14181]

7 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

It isn't leaving.  It is his screwing up the leaving.  Was there a rational reason behind abandoning Bagram? Seems like that place could have come in handy right about now.....

What I want to know is why does biden hate "brown" people so much?

[Bullneck 19078]

8 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

It isn't leaving.  It is his screwing up the leaving.  Was there a rational reason behind abandoning Bagram? Seems like that place could have come in handy right about now.....

So, how exactly were we to leave?  What was your plan for that?  Tell me.

[workswithseed 2101]

15 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

So, how exactly were we to leave?  What was your plan for that?  Tell me.

 

On 8/16/2021 at 2:49 PM, Johnny Sack said:

I don't know who planned what, but my 9 year old could figure out the steps for a withdrawal

1. Evacuate all Americans

2. Evacuate all allies who helped us and now face torture/death

3. Keep our airbases open so if the Taliban fucks with us while we are evacuating 1 and 2, we can introduce them to a few A-10s and American artillery

4. Evacuate troops and their weapons/hardware (also can assist protect the evacuation)

5. Shutdown the air bases and GTFO

Don't do #5 first.

 

I thought he laid it out okay.

[pacman 7355]

Republicans started the War, with no plan.

Republicans governed this War for almost 12 of 20 years.

Democrats governed the killing of Bin Laden.

If anything, this is once again another indictment of the failure of the entire American political system, in its current state.

[workswithseed 2101]

1 hour ago, pacman said:

Republicans started the War, with no plan.

Republicans governed this War for almost 12 of 20 years.

Democrats governed the killing of Bin Laden.

If anything, this is once again another indictment of the failure of the entire American political system, in its current state.

Democrats had the chance to not have any of that happening if you want to play this dumbass game.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 hour ago, pacman said:

Republicans started the War, with no plan.

Republicans governed this War for almost 12 of 20 years.

Democrats governed the killing of Bin Laden.

If anything, this is once again another indictment of the failure of the entire American political system, in its current state.

Complete bullshit.  The authorization to invade Afghanistan after 9-11 had one dissenting vote total between both houses of Congress.  And that one dissenting vote wasn’t Jim Biden.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Why the fuck did we turn over Bagram airport before getting our people and allies out?   That is no brainer one of the dumbest fucking choices I’ve ever seen.  Intentionally stupid.  

[UDontKnow 10444]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Why the fuck did we turn over Bagram airport before getting our people and allies out?   That is no brainer one of the dumbest fucking choices I’ve ever seen.  Intentionally stupid.  

The entire thing is a cluster fuck and indeed America should out have been out completely before the Taliban rolled in.

But really you know the answer to your question regarding the airport and it was to prevent any possible bloodshed and violence. Thus far, the Taliban has yet to go after Westerners. But they have not let up on their demand of wanting peaceful surrender.

My personal belief was that the slowdown of operations and eventual withdrawal should have commenced as soon as Biden was inaugurated.

Keep in mind the games that the Afghan government played, the pathetic and absolute useless excuse for an Afghan army, Trump partially tying the next administration's hands due to his propensity to be extra friendly to totalitarian regimes essentially giving them what they want, and oh yeah, addressing the COVID pandemic in America as the vaccine rollout was the greatest urgency at the time.

So maybe all of the aforementioned contributed to the nearly 3 month delay in withdrawal from Taliban land (recall Trump promised the US would be out by May). I am surprised that the Taliban essentially patiently waited during the delay. What I will never comprehend was the start of the American military withdrawal prior to getting out diplomats, American citizens, and current/former Afghan assets first.

[Hornius Emeritus 12457]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Complete bullshit.  The authorization to invade Afghanistan after 9-11 had one dissenting vote total between both houses of Congress.  And that one dissenting vote wasn’t Jim Biden.  

Complete bullshit. There was never a vote to invade Afghanistan. In fact, neither Afghanistan nor invasion were mentioned in the AUMF.  Here's the language:

SEC. 2. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES. (a) IN GENERAL.—That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.


In other words, the AUMF allowed him to use whatever "necessary and appropriate force" he wished against those he determined were responsible for 9/11.  It was up to him to 1) determine the appropriate force and 2) determine who was responsible.    He failed on both accounts.

Reality: the decision to invade both Afghanistan and Iraq was made long before Bush was even elected. All one has to do is read the PNAC statements from 2000, the statements that Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle etc... signed on to.  The were just looking for a justification/pretext for those invasions. 9/11 provided it.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Hornius Emeritus

[Js1 85310]

Who the fuck is Jim Biden? 

[Underdog 28611]

The Chuck Cunningham of the Biden Family. 

[Zonahorn 8079]

On 8/16/2021 at 9:04 PM, washparkhorn said:

 

 

Fighting retreats are hell on a military force. The Battle of Chosin (North Korea) saw the Army and Marines conducting a fighting retreat and it was brutal on the Americans as the Chinese poured across the border to confront the Americans. 

This is very reminiscent of the last days in Vietnam.  

Sidetrack, but it was even worse for the Chinese at Chosin. 

[Horn Dog 9818]

It is real easy to say the we should of just evacuated all Americans and allies first, but my understanding is that the Afgan government specifically asked that we not do that since it would basically doom any chance of the Afgan government having legitimacy.   Yea, in hind sight there was no chance of that anyway, but I can definitely see why we wouldn't flush any chance of the Afgan goverment fighting back from step 1.   

This was ALWAYS gonna be a shit show and the equivalent to releasing a bull in a china shop.  You can plan all you want, it ain't gonna change the end result.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/15/us/politics/embassy-evacuation-kabul-taliban.html

"Ordering an evacuation too early could deal a psychological blow that would speed the collapse of Afghan forces and the government in Kabul. But wait too long, military officials warned, and the administration faced a frenzied rush to evacuate thousands of civilians in what would become a bottleneck at the airport, the main lifeline to the outside world.

“Beginning an evacuation contributes to the downward spiral as there’s nothing more symbolic of the U.S. loss of confidence in the Afghan government than closing its embassy,” said Laurel E. Miller, a former top State Department official who worked on Afghanistan and Pakistan diplomacy during the Obama and Trump administrations. “Once you break the glass and pull the fire alarm, there’s no going back.”

Karl W. Eikenberry, a former top commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan and a former U.S. ambassador to Kabul, put it this way in an email on Sunday:

“Evacuation of an embassy can be interpreted locally and internationally as abandonment, akin to a military unit fleeing from its position under enemy pressure,” he said.

[MAROON 445]

2 hours ago, Js1 said:

Who the fuck is Jim Biden? 

the one who doesn't shit his pants on a daily basis

[workswithseed 2101]

2 hours ago, Js1 said:

Who the fuck is Jim Biden? 

Jim Eagle's friend.

[Js1 85310]

34 minutes ago, MAROON said:

the one who doesn't shit his pants on a daily basis

The absolute project when Donald Trump literally sat on a toilet and tweeted bullshit is astounding.  

But username, aggy, etc. 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20395]

37 minutes ago, MAROON said:

the one who doesn't shit his pants on a daily basis

['stache 21802]

Biden openly said he accepts the criticisms. A complete 180 from his precedessor who people continue to suck off.

Biden: "The buck stops with me."

trump: "I don't take responsibility at all."

I'm not sure this country has ever seen such a distinct divergence in leadership in a single election. Although it would probably be true regardless since trump is no leader at all.

Edited August 18, 2021 by 'stache

[UDontKnow 10444]

2 hours ago, Horn Dog said:

It is real easy to say the we should of just evacuated all Americans and allies first, but my understanding is that the Afgan government specifically asked that we not do that since it would basically doom any chance of the Afgan government having legitimacy.   Yea, in hind sight there was no chance of that anyway, but I can definitely see why we wouldn't flush any chance of the Afgan goverment fighting back from step 1.   

This was ALWAYS gonna be a shit show and the equivalent to releasing a bull in a china shop.  You can plan all you want, it ain't gonna change the end result.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/15/us/politics/embassy-evacuation-kabul-taliban.html

"Ordering an evacuation too early could deal a psychological blow that would speed the collapse of Afghan forces and the government in Kabul. But wait too long, military officials warned, and the administration faced a frenzied rush to evacuate thousands of civilians in what would become a bottleneck at the airport, the main lifeline to the outside world.

“Beginning an evacuation contributes to the downward spiral as there’s nothing more symbolic of the U.S. loss of confidence in the Afghan government than closing its embassy,” said Laurel E. Miller, a former top State Department official who worked on Afghanistan and Pakistan diplomacy during the Obama and Trump administrations. “Once you break the glass and pull the fire alarm, there’s no going back.”

Karl W. Eikenberry, a former top commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan and a former U.S. ambassador to Kabul, put it this way in an email on Sunday:

“Evacuation of an embassy can be interpreted locally and internationally as abandonment, akin to a military unit fleeing from its position under enemy pressure,” he said.

The corrupt Afghan government, including Ghani and Saleh, were playing games and it should come as no surprise that their legitimacy was questioned. After 20 years in Afghanistan, the US government likely knew this as well as the state of the Afghan forces and should have responded in better fashion not to overly accommodate the Afghan government nor the Taliban. The withdrawal would have never been ideal, but this clusterfuck of an evacuation situation where troops had to be sent back most certainly could have been avoided. 

[Horn Dog 9818]

1 hour ago, UDontKnow said:

The corrupt Afghan government, including Ghani and Saleh, were playing games and it should come as no surprise that their legitimacy was questioned. After 20 years in Afghanistan, the US government likely knew this as well as the state of the Afghan forces and should have responded in better fashion not to overly accommodate the Afghan government nor the Taliban. The withdrawal would have never been ideal, but this clusterfuck of an evacuation situation where troops had to be sent back most certainly could have been avoided. 

I mean I guess.  I think a reasonable case can be made for either case, and everything is crystal clear in hindsight.  Perhaps we should of just completely given up on any chance of the Afgan government from step 1 and shown our white flag to the Taliban.   My sense is that this would have created an entirely different type of humanitarian crisis with everyone scrambling to get out, not unlike what happened anyway.  There would of been similar outrage from the peanut gallery about "how can can Biden abandon our friends and not even give them a chance to fight back!!".  IMO, the result would have been basically the same... a complete shit show.  But who knows..... not me and not you.

[Macanudo 12976]

On 8/16/2021 at 11:04 PM, washparkhorn said:

 

 

Fighting retreats are hell on a military force. The Battle of Chosin (North Korea) saw the Army and Marines conducting a fighting retreat and it was brutal on the Americans as the Chinese poured across the border to confront the Americans. 

Retreat, hell! We're not retreating, we're just advancing in a different direction.

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

2 hours ago, 'stache said:

Biden openly said he accepts the criticisms. A complete 180 from his precedessor who people continue to suck off.

Biden: "The buck stops with me."

trump: "I don't take responsibility at all."

I'm not sure this country has ever seen such a distinct divergence in leadership in a single election. Although it would probably be true regardless since trump is no leader at all.

Lincoln to Andrew Johnson is the contrast that's bigger, but it was a step down, not up.

If Trump hadn't been so mind numbingly awful, Biden's channeling of Truman might not be so newsworthy. I mean, who lists Truman as great?

In contrast with Trump, though, the simple act of taking responsibility is a yuuuge fucking deal.

[Js1 85310]

8 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Lincoln to Andrew Johnson is the contrast that's bigger, but it was a step down, not up.

If Trump hadn't been so mind numbingly awful, Biden's channeling of Truman might not be so newsworthy. I mean, who lists Truman as great?

In contrast with Trump, though, the simple act of taking responsibility is a yuuuge fucking deal.

Obama -> Trump was pretty stark.  

[Satchel 6938]

Why is it everybody not sitting in Biden’s seat has a better plan? Watching all of the newly minted Afghanistan TV experts ruminate ad nauseam about better courses of action in a divorce that was bound to be ugly regardless of the amount of pre planning, is frustrating. Had Biden not considered the Afghan president’s request to forego a flash cut, the second guessing would have been just as fierce. 
 

Nobody likes to see human misery play out on the 70”, but it’s part of the cost innocents pay for being unrepresented in a war that has no end game.

[Js1 85310]

1 hour ago, Satchel said:

Why is it everybody not sitting in Biden’s seat has a better plan? Watching all of the newly minted Afghanistan TV experts ruminate ad nauseam about better courses of action in a divorce that was bound to be ugly regardless of the amount of pre planning, is frustrating. Had Biden not considered the Afghan president’s request to forego a flash cut, the second guessing would have been just as fierce. 
 

Nobody likes to see human misery play out on the 70”, but it’s part of the cost innocents pay for being unrepresented in a war that has no end game.

Everyone is taking off their internet/TV epidemiologist hat to put on their internet/TV Middle East foreign policy expert hats. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Biden would just sit on his old fragile hands anyways. Because he’s an old fucking loser.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33868]

top notch analysis, there. thanks for your contribution

[Biff Tannen 45673]

2 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Biden would just sit on his old fragile hands anyways. Because he’s an old fucking loser.

Dynamite drop in Monty.  That broadcast school has really paid off.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

top notch analysis, there. thanks for your contribution

Dynamite drop in Monty.  That broadcast school has really paid off.

Classic trouble shoot responses when you know your guy fucked everything up but don’t want to have a pie in the face moment.

[Satchel 6938]

21 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Everyone is taking off their internet/TV epidemiologist hat to put on their internet/TV Middle East foreign policy expert hats. 

Well, you do have a point.

[DDD Dad 14332]

Paging @PenelopeWitherspoon

Jenna just retweeted this.

[DDD Dad 14332]

5 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Paging @PenelopeWitherspoon

Jenna just retweeted this.

Aaaaaaaaannnd it really isn't.  A big story.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

9 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Paging @PenelopeWitherspoon

Jenna just retweeted this.

She is too stupid for words.  Also Raheem J. Kassam should be banned from Twitter.  Talk about Fake News.  

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Cmonnn guys. Move on. That was almost a half of a week ago.

[JimmyJames 12271]

51 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Biden would just sit on his old fragile hands anyways. Because he’s an old fucking loser.

oh yeah? Well I think you would just step on your own dick because you’re an old fucking loser.

See what a great contribution to the board we just both made?