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Joe Biden 2021


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I mean you're right, I wasn't talking about WWS, but it does apply to him in the same way. I just feel kind of sad about him, though, because he once had the curiosity and chance to be a better person but then decided to go all in on being regressive. 

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  On 10/2/2021 at 8:03 PM, trauma babe said:
I mean you're right, I wasn't talking about WWS, but it does apply to him in the same way. I just feel kind of sad about him, though, because he once had the curiosity and chance to be a better person but then decided to go all in on being regressive. 

True but I decided not to point that part out. It’s me being my kinder, gentler self.
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  On 10/2/2021 at 8:03 PM, trauma babe said:

I mean you're right, I wasn't talking about WWS, but it does apply to him in the same way. I just feel kind of sad about him, though, because he once had the curiosity and chance to be a better person but then decided to go all in on being regressive. 

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Never underestimate the power of the dark side. 

Anger, fear, and aggression are seductive sirens to many. 

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  On 9/30/2021 at 8:28 PM, babysdaddy said:

Debasement of the US Dollar is clearly a goal of the government because debt is static and 'paying it back' (won't ever happen) is just adjusting the ratio of debt/gdp. 

As long gdp grows in nominal terms then our debt ratio becomes smaller or grows less fast. 

Over the past decade, debt and deficit spending have not impacted interest rates. If they don't matter, then Washpark is right in that the $3.5T number really doesn't cost that much to finance. 

That also brings in another thought in that if debt and deficit spending do not matter, then why levy income taxes at all? 

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In the battle against inflation, this economic tool is strong lever to drain excess consumption/demand (sop up the excess liquidity) from the system. Drains, if you will, to keep this hydraulic neoliberal economic machine humming along efficiently. 

Just one of many other inflation fighting tools available to Congress and the Fed. 

After all, the spice must flow

Edited by washparkhorn
free your mind. and be nice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7iQbBbMAFE
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So your argument is that when inflation is running hot, raise income taxes to reduce consumption? Has that ever been the reason for income tax increases? 

Let's presume that is true, then would keeping tax rates across the board at zero and if inflation is increasing, make taxes dynamic work?  Or have sales taxes be dynamic based on that individual goods year over year price change?

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  On 10/5/2021 at 2:29 PM, babysdaddy said:

So your argument is that when inflation is running hot, raise income taxes to reduce consumption? Has that ever been the reason for income tax increases? 

Let's presume that is true, then would keeping tax rates across the board at zero and if inflation is increasing, make taxes dynamic work?  Or have sales taxes be dynamic based on that individual goods year over year price change?

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you know we have a graduated income tax system, don't you?

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  On 10/5/2021 at 3:23 PM, babysdaddy said:
I'm aware.  He is claiming that income taxes are a lever used to drain liquidity and reduce consumption.  That has, as far as I know, never been an argument used to raise taxes. 
And I'm telling you we already have dynamic taxation because we have a graduated income tax system.

This is standard Keynesian anti-cyclical fiscal policy that we learned in high school.

Politicians aren't going to say it cuz politicians aren't entirely fucking stupid.
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  On 10/5/2021 at 3:23 PM, babysdaddy said:

I'm aware.  He is claiming that income taxes are a lever used to drain liquidity and reduce consumption.  That has, as far as I know, never been an argument used to raise taxes. 

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You asked for a purpose/use for taxes in the current system.

  • They are used to drain liquidity from the system (calm inflation by reducing aggregate demand).
  • Taxes drive use of the currency, as those obligations are payable in USD only.
  • Eliminating taxation (federal) would increase the money supply by ~20% (inflationary). 

The fundamental point, as you recognized, is that income taxes do not fund the government. Creation of money by the Fed (with the resulting multiplier effects) funds public expenditures. 

 

Edited by washparkhorn
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This is not a new argument.  Beardsley Ruml (Fed) 1946, American Affairs magazine (January 1946):

TAXES FOR REVENUE ARE OBSOLETE

Mr. Ruml read this paper before the American Bar Association during the last year of the war [World War II]. It attracted then less attention than it deserved and is even more timely now, with the tax structure undergoing change for peacetime. His thesis is that given (1) control of a central banking system and (2) an inconvertible currency, a sovereign national government is finally free of money worries and need no longer levy taxes for the purpose of providing itself with revenue. All taxation, therefore, should be regarded from the point of view of social and economic consequences. 

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I hope that helps.

Edited by washparkhorn
By the way, Ruhl (NY Fed chair 1946) used this argument against illogical corporate taxes.
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 I've never heard anyone anywhere claim taxes are anything other than revenue to fund the government so appreciate your responses.  

  On 10/5/2021 at 5:09 PM, washparkhorn said:

You asked for a purpose/use for taxes in the current system.

  • They are used to drain liquidity from the system (calm inflation by reducing aggregate demand).
  • Taxes drive use of the currency, as those obligations are payable in USD only.
  • Eliminating taxation (federal) would increase the money supply by ~20% (inflationary). 

The fundamental point, as you recognized, is that income taxes do not fund the government. Creation of money by the Fed (with the resulting multiplier effects) funds public expenditures. 

 

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  On 10/5/2021 at 2:29 PM, babysdaddy said:

So your argument is that when inflation is running hot, raise income taxes to reduce consumption? Has that ever been the reason for income tax increases? 

Let's presume that is true, then would keeping tax rates across the board at zero and if inflation is increasing, make taxes dynamic work?  Or have sales taxes be dynamic based on that individual goods year over year price change?

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That’s the MMT approach to inflation control 

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  On 10/6/2021 at 10:08 PM, Js1 said:

Look at all the concerned trolls! 

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It’s embarrassing for our country to have the two fuckwads we’ve had the last two cycles.  One can’t keep his hands or comments to himself, the next can’t keep his hands out of the jello and his comments coherent.   It’s a Greek tragedy wrapped in an Orwellian acid flash.    

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  On 10/7/2021 at 12:05 AM, Trey3216 said:

It’s embarrassing for our country to have the two fuckwads we’ve had the last two cycles.  One can’t keep his hands or comments to himself, the next can’t keep his hands out of the jello and his comments coherent.   It’s a Greek tragedy wrapped in an Orwellian acid flash.    

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Wut?

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  On 10/7/2021 at 12:14 AM, Js1 said:

Also 38% is either an outlier or start of a trend. Even Rasmussen can’t get Biden to 38%

 

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The trend remains to be seen, but I would say most important is the independent breakdown. 
 

Basically 75-25 against the current handling of the border situation. 2-1 against the foreign policy. 
 

We got rid of Trump for a multitude of reason but high up there were that was a racist sob and also someone that didn’t know what he was doing on global stage and an embarrassment. Oh and Covid where he’s well underwater with independents. 

Edited by Satoshi
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  On 10/6/2021 at 8:12 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

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It's almost like Joe Biden was always going to revert to the centrist, lifelong, run-of-the-mill politician that he's always been, and anyone who bought into the "radical left agenda" propaganda is a fucking moron.

Won't stop them from crying socialism anytime anyone says the word "taxes."

But good on the Democrats for catering to the votes that they're never going to get while bleeding votes from people who support wildly popular progressive policy changes.* Smart.

*It's not like they're going to vote for Trumpers instead, but it may keep them at home.

Edited by aggie08
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I’m not the biggest Biden fan in the world but don’t see how this is entirely his fault. He can only work with what he’s got:

Biden slashes his social spending bill by more than $1 trillion. The White House and Democratic leaders said that they would propose spending $2.3 trillion on social programs over a decade. That’s substantially less than their original $3.5 trillion plan, which could mean jettisoning some initiatives entirely.

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