Joe Biden 2021

[workswithseed 2,103]

1 hour ago, babysdaddy said:

Disagree. There is a bill supporting infrastructure the house could pass right now except the progressives have it held hostage.

Manchin and Sienma are going to make BErnie decide if he’s been full of shit for the last 40 years or pass nothing.

 

[Tom 2,959]

8 hours ago, babysdaddy said:

Disagree. There is a bill supporting infrastructure the house could pass right now except the progressives have it held hostage.

Manchin and Sienma are going to make BErnie decide if he’s been full of shit for the last 40 years or pass nothing.

 

Like Lieberman during the Obamacare negotiations, the "centrist" Democrats don't even know what they want.  They just want to appear centrist or conservative so they are willing to recklessly sabotage their party's platform by grandstanding behind some arbitrary line to appeal to some group that they think keeps them in power.  Meanwhile they are watering down bills with policies that are broadly very popular and supported by the majority.

Then when we get the final watered down version of the bills that don't help people the way they way they originally promised, just like the ACA, people will look at not just the Sinemas or Manchins but Democrats in general and say things like "Democrats always make promises to help the working and middle class, but never deliver!"  Then a bunch will get voted out of office, and Mitch McConnell and the GOP will laugh and toast together as they take back over and hand out another huge tax cut to billionaires, gut social programs, and install unqualified judges.  Rinse and repeat every couple of election cycles.

[jimmyjazz 45,909]

10 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

Progressives haven't killed anything. Progressives, as a whole, have shown party discipline. The Party agreed to pass both measures. As expected, the obstructionists (and many centrists) prefer the bill that only the subsidizes corporations and the wealthy.

If conservatives had any powers of observation, they would recognize that this is strong evidence that the Democratic party has not moved "left".

Of course, this presumes that they care about the truth, which they don't.  They know that there has been no mass migration towards socialism, they just keep repeating the myth because it riles up the base.

[elfenix 34,236]

are we still pretending that oil and gas prices are largely set by arms-length transactions on a competitive market rather than exogenously by foreign nation states with their own geopolitical interests to look after?

[jimmyjazz 45,909]

8 minutes ago, elfenix said:

are we still pretending that oil and gas prices are largely set by arms-length transactions on a competitive market rather than exogenously by foreign nation states with their own geopolitical interests to look after?

Who could possibly understand what magick you are referring to?

[Satoshi 129]

On 10/15/2021 at 10:27 AM, washparkhorn said:

The energy shock is occurring in Europe and Asia. We are seeing continued hoarding behavior by nation-states heading into winter. It's a contagion that is worth watching. And remember - the 2008 Oil Shock deepened the misery of the 2007-08 Great Recession.

Using crude as a proxy for energy, $130+ a barrel oil (2008) would certainly damage our economic system and promote cost-push inflation. 

If I was in Europe, I would worry about Texas Winter Storm-type supply interruptions. 

Don’t forget about the American energy shock as well. 
 

Sounds like POTUS is more concerned with the gas price issue than the CR intelligentsia. It’s probably nothing. 
 

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2021/10/13/white-house-biden-gas-prices-515957
 

Some nice heating price hikes this year for people. “High class” problems I believe is what they’re calling this. 
 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-winter-of-giant-gas-bills-is-coming-are-you-ready-11634203801?mod=article_inline

Edited October 17, 2021 by Satoshi

[jimmyjazz 45,909]

7 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

Don’t forget about the American energy shock as well. 

What "American energy shock"?

Here is the national average price of unleaded blend, pre-tax, over the last 10 years.  Please weigh in with your thoughts on the current "American energy shock".

[Satoshi 129]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

What "American energy shock"?

Here is the national average price of unleaded blend, pre-tax, over the last 10 years.  Please weigh in with your thoughts on the current "American energy shock".

The nearly 50% of American homes that heat with natural gas will have a 30% increase in their bills. 
 

And if the administration didn’t think the gas prices were a problem do you think they’d go to an industry they’ve actively combated to ask for help? Please. I’ll let them know at white house.gov that Jimmy Jazz on Surlyhorns CR forum says it’s no big deal. 

[jimmyjazz 45,909]

7 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

The nearly 50% of American homes that heat with natural gas will have a 30% increase in their bills. 

Here's a chart of natural gas prices over the last 20+ years.  Please point out where Joe Biden touched you.  Thanks.

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by jimmyjazz

[Neonmoon 38,129]

But @JimmyJames, despite the entire energy sector shutting down investment and production for over a year, have you read about the horrible transition to green energy in Europe?

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,869]

15 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

But @JimmyJames, despite the entire energy sector shutting down investment and production for over a year, have you read about the horrible transition to green energy in Europe?

so.many.dead.birds

[Js1 85,316]

 

[washparkhorn 9,939]

The media needs blood . . . to meet their performance expectations for the 4th Quarter.  $$$

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1,549]

I'm very disappointed in CNN and even MSNBC for being so critical of Biden, much more than I can ever remember doing the same to Obama.  Don't they know that Trump will benefit from this over the top Biden slamming?  Exactly why are Biden's numbers down so much? He's doing a really good job IMO. 

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2,073]

13 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

I'm very disappointed in CNN and even MSNBC for being so critical of Biden, much more than I can ever remember doing the same to Obama.  Don't they know that Trump will benefit from this over the top Biden slamming?  Exactly why are Biden's numbers down so much? He's doing a really good job IMO. 

weak bait

[Smax 3,800]

13 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

I'm very disappointed in CNN and even MSNBC for being so critical of Biden, much more than I can ever remember doing the same to Obama.  Don't they know that Trump will benefit from this over the top Biden slamming?  Exactly why are Biden's numbers down so much? He's doing a really good job IMO. 

 

 

Doing a really good job of what exactly in your opinion?

[mchookem 16,330]

3 minutes ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

weak bait

 

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2,073]

hahahaha i'll get all these libs to agree with me that the FAKE NEWS CNN AND MSNBC are really just arms of the DEMONcrat party by saying they shouldn't be mean to SLEEPY joe and we will all laugh and laugh on my GOVOLSLSUOLMISSTEXAGSDAWGSFREEDOMFORUM! 

 

imma go out on a limb and guess . . . 8th grade education

[washparkhorn 9,939]

7 minutes ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

imma go out on a limb and guess . . . 8th grade education

8th grade Tennessee education 

[Fudge Nuggets 19,190]

1 hour ago, Smax said:

 

 

Doing a really good job of what exactly in your opinion?

Not being Trump, which is good enough for me. 

[staboner 4,969]

On 10/17/2021 at 7:48 AM, elfenix said:

are we still pretending that oil and gas prices are largely set by arms-length transactions on a competitive market rather than exogenously by foreign nation states with their own geopolitical interests to look after?

SUPPLY AND DEMAND

do your research

also, exogenously you bastard. i need a few more brain cells now to replenish my precious bodily fluids. 

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1,549]

1 hour ago, Smax said:

 

 

Doing a really good job of what exactly in your opinion?

good job market , no - great job market, by far the most important aspect of daily life.  Inflation is getting worse but IMO will subside in a few months.  Afghan pullout was very well done, despite the media on both sides hyping failure.  Getting 124,000 people out in 18 days is phenomenal.

 

what are you objections to any of Biden's actions or principles?  

1 hour ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

weak bait

no.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Make em eat Taco Bell

[Satoshi 129]

22 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Here's a chart of natural gas prices over the last 20+ years.  Please point out where Joe Biden touched you.  Thanks.

 

Hope this helps. 
Cmon Jimmy you dabble In investing. You know that chart shows something breaking out of a decade long base. We’re going quite a bit higher and that’s why Biden is reaching out to O&G cos. 
 

As we attempt to transition to a more volatile green energy electric grid  there’s going to be some uncertainty and growing pains. When you actively discourage fossil fuel drilling you’re responsible for their low supply and high prices. That’s obvious. Dems will have to work on their messaging around that. Not sure there’s a great answer tho tbh. 

[Neonmoon 38,129]

Still ignoring the whole pandemic variable I see. 

 

[Satoshi 129]

3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Still ignoring the whole pandemic variable I see. 

 

If there was an obvious increase in supply coming in response to the price increase that would be fine, but it’s not going to be the case. 
 

Markets price in the future. Drilling permits approved by the Interior Department down 75%. Then the other regulatory hurdles that are being put up. The O&G industry is operating in a hostile environment. 

[jimmyjazz 45,909]

29 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

As we attempt to transition to a more volatile green energy electric grid

You haven't provided a shred of evidence that any of the current price swings in energy have anything to do with the "green grid".

I'm supremely confident you have no idea how steady the aggregate green grid is.  People think "what about a cloudy day?", "what if the wind isn't blowing?" without even the tiniest clue that

(a) these LOCAL variables have been accounted for (because engineers aren't morons)

(b) in the regional aggregate, they average out, and

(c) seasonal variations are built into the models.

I mean, for fuck's sake, you just haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about.  I guess it's never stopped you before, why start now?

[hornmpa96 2,618]

Drilling is down in the US because investors grew tired of getting screwed in oil and gas investments for the last 10 years. The pandemic allowed for a reset and instead of increasing drilling, the public companies will be punished if they don’t pay down debt and make payouts to investors.

This is all about the capital markets and has very little to do with Joe Biden.

[TwiceHorn 31,456]

24 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

If there was an obvious increase in supply coming in response to the price increase that would be fine, but it’s not going to be the case. 
 

Markets price in the future. Drilling permits approved by the Interior Department down 75%. Then the other regulatory hurdles that are being put up. The O&G industry is operating in a hostile environment. 

Less than 13% of US NG production occurs on federal land.

The oil and gas industry probably needs to operate in a more hostile environment.

Whatever regulatory measures the Biden administration is imposing will not be felt in the next several quarters by consumers.

Biden's not much different from any other President:  he can't rightfully take credit for the economy during a four-year term, nor should he shoulder the blame.  The things the President can do to the economy, for the most part, won't be felt during his term.

Edited October 18, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[SydneyCarton 48,082]

Ole’ green grid, eh? GR is a disingenuous piece of shit. As usual. There’s no such thing as a “green grid.” It’s the grid. The energy works the same in all of it. It’s no more or less reliable because of the sources that power it. Natural gas prices are about to be the highest they’ve been in awhile, and it’s because of covid and because europe is entirely fucked right now and the companies can make more money shipping it overseas than selling it domestically. So when that stupid dipshit comes here whining about energy prices just remind him it’s literally free market capitalism at work. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by SydneyCarton

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,511]

I see the progressives causing more of the bottleneck because they want to legislate as if they had a 60+ headcount in the senate. Instead they should be working to increase the senate lead by fixing any immediate problems. 

Any problem that citizens are facing will be magnified 100x by trump and the gop. As a concrete example, if there are lack of truck drivers in key areas, the govt should step in to solve or incentivize a temp solution.

Something like climate change, infrastructure or Medicare overhaul should have been handled in the first 100 days.

[Satoshi 129]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

Ole’ green grid, eh? GR is a disingenuous piece of shit. As usual. There’s no such thing as a “green grid.” It’s the grid. The energy works the same in all of it. It’s no more or less reliable because of the sources that power it. Natural gas prices are about to be the highest they’ve been in awhile, and it’s because of covid and because europe is entirely fucked right now and the companies can make more money shipping it overseas than selling it domestically. So when that stupid dipshit comes here whining about energy prices just remind him it’s literally free market capitalism at work. 

Hey there buddy. You’re posting pretty early. You shouldn’t be distracted from your main morning task. Making sure CTJ’s eggs are just how he likes them. 
 

Looks like we’re gonna need more free market capitalism in the form of green energy subsidies and anti fossil fuel regs to fix this problem. 

[SydneyCarton 48,082]

4 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

Hey there buddy. You’re posting pretty early. You shouldn’t be distracted from your main morning task. Making sure CTJ’s eggs are just how he likes them. 
 

Looks like we’re gonna need more free market capitalism in the form of green energy subsidies and anti fossil fuel regs to fix this problem. 

 

what exactly is your point with that article? Are you attempting to claim that we’re not shipping LNG to Europe in bulk right now? Are you suggesting that maybe the energy sector shouldn’t be left entirely to the invisible hand of capitalism and should be supported by the state? Because I’m guessing you won’t find many objectors here in the cloak room to that idea. If so, great point!!

Fossil fuel investment is dropping because folks don’t think they’ll get their money back by investing. It’s the same principles that ensure the Texas grid doesn’t have people lining up to build more power plants. So the free market doesn’t like it. Period. Now, if private money doesn’t like it, and the government has to step in, does it really matter if they’re investing in fossil fuels or green energy? My wife’s hair dryer doesn’t give a fuck. 

[jimmyjazz 45,909]

@Satoshi, it's almost as if you didn't read the article.  Fossil fuel energy investment is down, and renewables have not taken up the slack.  Therefore, there is a lack of supply -- think "megawatt-hours".  This has nothing to do with the "quality" of renewable energy sources, but you do you.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by jimmyjazz

[jimmyjazz 45,909]

As an aside, in that article I noticed this chart that is intended to convey the supply share required of each energy sector for the world to reach zero net emissions by 2050.  Either there is some nuance missing or it's not a well captured concept:  "batteries" must be charged (assuming the broad category of electrochemical batteries).  Batteries are not a source of power per se, they are energy storage devices.  Their charging power is derived from other sources, like fossil, thermal, renewable, etc.  (Think residential solar panels charging batteries for overnight power delivery, etc.)  I am surprised IEA put this out.

[elfenix 34,236]

i assume that's an installation cost share.

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2,073]

yeah that's weird.  i'm trying to convince myself that it is a chart of what typical usage would be at any moment because wind doesn't really go up and it should.  so they are showing battery usage after being charged by things like wind and showing using wind directly on the grid

[jimmyjazz 45,909]

4 minutes ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

yeah that's weird.  i'm trying to convince myself that it is a chart of what typical usage would be at any moment because wind doesn't really go up and it should.  so they are showing battery usage after being charged by things like wind and showing using wind directly on the grid

You might be right.  It's a terrible way to illustrate the total generation capacity required of each sector in order to reach that net zero emission goal.

[Neonmoon 38,129]

Hurry @Satoshi google some headline talking points to refute the last couple of posts. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Neonmoon

[EuroHorn 3,263]

Joe is putting coal back in the money

 

Coal-fired power is on the rise in America for the first time since 2014

Quote

US coal-fired generation is expected to surge by 22% in 2021, the US Energy Information Administration said Monday. That would mark the first annual increase in coal-fired electric power generation since 2014, the EIA said.

 

 

https://apple.news/AjOE6KlKvQUKki_2uVAywZw

 

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by EuroHorn

[bolverk 29,671]

21 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

Joe is putting coal back in the money

 

Coal-fired power is on the rise in America for the first time since 2014

 

 

https://apple.news/AjOE6KlKvQUKki_2uVAywZw

 

 

EuroHorn is a disingenuous shitbag who selectively quotes articles to advance a false narrative that blames Biden for something out of his control - unless he's a socialist and is advocating for the nationalization of our energy sector.

The article goes on to state:

In recent years, utilities ditched coal because of concerns about the climate crisis and due to the abundance of very cheap natural gas. US coal consumption fell in 2019 for the sixth straight year, dropping to the lowest level since 1964, as natural gas prices fell to record lows.

Yet this trend has reversed in recent months because natural gas prices have spiked, making coal more competitive.

The EIA report said coal power generation is rising this year because of "significantly higher natural gas prices and relatively stable coal prices." The delivered cost of natural gas to US power plants has averaged $4.93 per million British thermal units this year, more than double 2020's price, the EIA said.

This comes after US power plants have retired nearly one-third of their generating capacity at coal plants since 2010.

The EIA said the rise of coal generation in the United States "will most likely not continue." The report forecasts a 5% decline in US coal-fired generation in 2022 due to the retirement of coal-fired units and slightly lower natural gas prices.

Negged for lying and a trolling.

Edited October 18, 2021 by bolverk

[EuroHorn 3,263]

12 minutes ago, bolverk said:

EuroHorn is a disingenuous shitbag who selectively quotes articles to advance a false narrative that blames Biden for something out of his control - unless he's a socialist and is advocating for the nationalization of our energy sector.

The article goes on to state:

In recent years, utilities ditched coal because of concerns about the climate crisis and due to the abundance of very cheap natural gas. US coal consumption fell in 2019 for the sixth straight year, dropping to the lowest level since 1964, as natural gas prices fell to record lows.

Yet this trend has reversed in recent months because natural gas prices have spiked, making coal more competitive.

The EIA report said coal power generation is rising this year because of "significantly higher natural gas prices and relatively stable coal prices." The delivered cost of natural gas to US power plants has averaged $4.93 per million British thermal units this year, more than double 2020's price, the EIA said.

This comes after US power plants have retired nearly one-third of their generating capacity at coal plants since 2010.

The EIA said the rise of coal generation in the United States "will most likely not continue." The report forecasts a 5% decline in US coal-fired generation in 2022 due to the retirement of coal-fired units and slightly lower natural gas prices.

Negged for lying and a trolling.

Well that’s good to know the government hasn’t passed carbon taxes and the green new deal….  
 

otherwise coal might still be more expensive 

Yes, Joe has no control over energy policy until he does...

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by EuroHorn

[Js1 85,316]

Aw your fee fees got hurt. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

Today I learned via the Apple News link which was via CNN which contained a link to the original data from the EIA, a little more about the Short Term Energy Outlook. I didn't realize that due to certain circumstances (duh), US energy consumption fell by 7% last year which broke a record dating back to 1949.

I also learned a little more about the natural gas prices and their relationship with this increase in coal-fired generation and how that differs from past years.

Quite illuminating.

 

 

 

 

 

[bolverk 29,671]

1 hour ago, EuroHorn said:

Well that’s good to know the government hasn’t passed carbon taxes and the green new deal….  
 

otherwise coal might still be more expensive 

Yes, Joe has no control over energy policy until he does...

 

Gotcha. So, what you're saying is "Joe has not put coal back in the money" and you were just lying a little earlier.

[Biff Tannen 45,678]

It’s always funny at first to see these morons get pantsed by people who actually know what they are talking about. And then not nearly as funny because they don’t learn a god damn thing, despite all the facts and information disproving their bullshit. They run off to DT and Facebook and continue to spread their nonsense that they so badly want to be true.   

[wildcat09 29,352]

14 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

It’s always funny at first to see these morons get pantsed by people who actually know what they are talking about. And then not nearly as funny because they don’t learn a god damn thing, despite all the facts and information disproving their bullshit. They run off to DT and Facebook and continue to spread their nonsense that they so badly want to be true.   

It’s gonna be real goddamned funny when their homes get demolished by hurricanes or burned down by wildfires, or they just run out of drinking water, or starve because we lose much of our arable land. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

2 hours ago, bolverk said:

Gotcha. So, what you're saying is "Joe has not put coal back in the money" and you were just lying a little earlier.

While I was spending some down time reading, I was considering that the higher natural gas prices leading to the increase in coal generated power has an upside for workers in that industry (coal) due to the higher pay. It puts the President in a bit of a bind with respect to labor, something that has been discussed in other threads. IIRC, wind and solar jobs are not usually union jobs the way the UMW has for coal. When the northeast switched from using coal to heating oil and nat gas around the turn of the 20th century, it didn't seem to be fraught with the reluctance that folks have towards greener, cleaner energy because people could literally see how dirty coal was. It was trundled down their coal chute into their home. Now, we flick a switch and have heat and light. Wind produces about 11 grams of CO2 per KW hour of electricity generated while coal produces 980. (if the plant has carbon recapture tech, then that is reduced to 156 but there are less than a handful of plants in North America that have that IIRC).

 

[Satoshi 129]

On 10/18/2021 at 7:49 AM, SydneyCarton said:

 

what exactly is your point with that article? Are you attempting to claim that we’re not shipping LNG to Europe in bulk right now? Are you suggesting that maybe the energy sector shouldn’t be left entirely to the invisible hand of capitalism and should be supported by the state? Because I’m guessing you won’t find many objectors here in the cloak room to that idea. If so, great point!!

Fossil fuel investment is dropping because folks don’t think they’ll get their money back by investing. It’s the same principles that ensure the Texas grid doesn’t have people lining up to build more power plants. So the free market doesn’t like it. Period. Now, if private money doesn’t like it, and the government has to step in, does it really matter if they’re investing in fossil fuels or green energy? My wife’s hair dryer doesn’t give a fuck. 

Fossil fuel investment is down. You’re right that investors are concerned about decreased returns. Part of that is recent results and part of it is forward looking. A good way to deter investment into a sector is to have governments cancel large projects or introduce new constraints to future projects.

On 10/18/2021 at 7:51 AM, jimmyjazz said:

@Satoshi, it's almost as if you didn't read the article.  Fossil fuel energy investment is down, and renewables have not taken up the slack.  Therefore, there is a lack of supply -- think "megawatt-hours".  This has nothing to do with the "quality" of renewable energy sources, but you do you.

 

 

 

 

You’re right. Renewables have not taken up the slack. In that European report that WashPark shared it stated that completed green energy installations have underperformed projections. 
 

It’s going to be a balancing act as we transition from predictable, reliable fossil fuel generation to a “net zero” grid. If we pull out of fossil fuels too fast there will be further volatility. 

 

[jimmyjazz 45,909]

7 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

You’re right. Renewables have not taken up the slack. In that European report that WashPark shared it stated that completed green energy installations have underperformed projections. 

. . . and the reason renewables have not taken up the slack is because decreased 2020-era investment in fossil fuels was never part of the calculus used to fund renewable energy projects.  It's not some performance flaw, there simply aren't enough watts (from any source) feeding the grid.

[Hank Scorpio 17,729]