Joe Biden 2021

wildcat09 · August 19, 2021

Just now, Js1 said:

Why do only people who went to elite ivy league universities need to be President?

No shit. We'd probably be better off if we passed a Constitutional amendment prohibiting anyone who graduated from an ivy league university from holding the office (though I feel much more strongly about such a prohibition for the Supreme Court).

OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys · August 19, 2021

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Why do only people who went to elite ivy league universities need to be President?

There are people that graduate from

Spoiler

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number 1 every year. Where are these people? How did the bench get so short?

Js1 · August 19, 2021

Thanks for spoilering that instead. Jesus Christ.

bad_teammate · August 19, 2021

34 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Judd Legum is a solid reporter.

Think about it for a minute, how often do you see people opposing US intervention on cable news networks, either as hosts or guests?

Basically never.

Also, Hillary was right about the vast right-wing conspiracy.

elfenix · August 19, 2021

it's not a conspiracy if it's out in the open

Johnny Sack · August 19, 2021

11 hours ago, elfenix said:

[mention=4708]Longhornlove[/mention] in just the last two decades republicans have gotten tens of thousands of americans killed through wars of choice and cheerled a virus that has nearly killed more americans than all Americans KIA through all time but they're the ones who are pro life. go fuck yourself. your morality is bullshit.

Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade and much of his nation's wealth not on providing for the Iraqi people but on developing nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them."
-- President Bill Clinton (State of the Union Address), Jan. 27, 1998

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"No one has done what Saddam Hussein has done, or is thinking of doing. He is producing weapons of mass destruction, and he is qualitatively and quantitatively different from other dictators.""Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"I mean, we have three different countries that, while they all present serious problems for the United States -- they're dictatorships, they're involved in the development and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction -- you know, the most imminent, clear and present threat to our country is not the same from those three countries. I think Iraq is the most serious and imminent threat to our country."
-- Sen. John Edwards (D, NC) Feb. 24, 2002

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power. We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." "
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed. We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Edward Kennedy (D, MA) Sep. 27, 2002

"Now let me be clear -- I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him."
-- State Senator Barack Obama (Democrat, Illinois) Oct. 2, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"My position is very clear: The time has come for decisive action to eliminate the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction."
-- Senator John Edwards (D, NC), Oct. 7, 2002

"We stopped the fighting [in 1991] on an agreement that Iraq would take steps to assure the world that it would not engage in further aggression and that it would destroy its weapons of mass destruction. It has refused to take those steps. That refusal constitutes a breach of the armistice which renders it void and justifies resumption of the armed conflict."
-- Sen. Harry Reid (D. NV) Oct. 9, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"I come to this debate, Mr. Speaker, as one at the end of 10 years in office on the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, where stopping the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction was one of my top priorities. I applaud the President on focusing on this issue and on taking the lead to disarm Saddam Hussein. ... Others have talked about this threat that is posed by Saddam Hussein. Yes, he has chemical weapons, he has biological weapons, he is trying to get nuclear weapons."
-- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D. CA) Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

"People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons."
-- Ex President Bill Clinton, Jul. 22, 2003 (Interview with CNN Larry King)

I asked very direct questions of the top people in the CIA and people who'd served in the Clinton administration. And they said they believed that Saddam Hussein either had weapons or had the components of weapons or the ability to quickly make weapons of mass destruction. What we're worried about is an A-bomb in a Ryder truck in New York, in Washington and St. Louis. It cannot happen. We have to prevent it from happening.
-- Rep. Richard Gephardt (D, MT) Nov. 2, 2003

StassneyHorn · August 19, 2021

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade and much of his nation's wealth not on providing for the Iraqi people but on developing nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them."
-- President Bill Clinton (State of the Union Address), Jan. 27, 1998

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"No one has done what Saddam Hussein has done, or is thinking of doing. He is producing weapons of mass destruction, and he is qualitatively and quantitatively different from other dictators.""Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"I mean, we have three different countries that, while they all present serious problems for the United States -- they're dictatorships, they're involved in the development and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction -- you know, the most imminent, clear and present threat to our country is not the same from those three countries. I think Iraq is the most serious and imminent threat to our country."
-- Sen. John Edwards (D, NC) Feb. 24, 2002

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power. We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." "
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed. We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Edward Kennedy (D, MA) Sep. 27, 2002

"Now let me be clear -- I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him."
-- State Senator Barack Obama (Democrat, Illinois) Oct. 2, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"My position is very clear: The time has come for decisive action to eliminate the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction."
-- Senator John Edwards (D, NC), Oct. 7, 2002

"We stopped the fighting [in 1991] on an agreement that Iraq would take steps to assure the world that it would not engage in further aggression and that it would destroy its weapons of mass destruction. It has refused to take those steps. That refusal constitutes a breach of the armistice which renders it void and justifies resumption of the armed conflict."
-- Sen. Harry Reid (D. NV) Oct. 9, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"I come to this debate, Mr. Speaker, as one at the end of 10 years in office on the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, where stopping the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction was one of my top priorities. I applaud the President on focusing on this issue and on taking the lead to disarm Saddam Hussein. ... Others have talked about this threat that is posed by Saddam Hussein. Yes, he has chemical weapons, he has biological weapons, he is trying to get nuclear weapons."
-- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D. CA) Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

"People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons."
-- Ex President Bill Clinton, Jul. 22, 2003 (Interview with CNN Larry King)

I asked very direct questions of the top people in the CIA and people who'd served in the Clinton administration. And they said they believed that Saddam Hussein either had weapons or had the components of weapons or the ability to quickly make weapons of mass destruction. What we're worried about is an A-bomb in a Ryder truck in New York, in Washington and St. Louis. It cannot happen. We have to prevent it from happening.
-- Rep. Richard Gephardt (D, MT) Nov. 2, 2003

You could have just linked the website you lifted this from

https://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm

Hook1997 · August 19, 2021

Is he just fucking with us now? Tripling downing on absolutely nothing could have been done better???

bad_teammate · August 19, 2021

Clinton blew up an aspirin factory. W started two branches of foreverwar.

Democrats suck. Republicans are far worse.

Longhorn_Fan68 · August 19, 2021

you really bringing TMZ in here as some sort of authority on anything? that's almost as bad as linking an onion or babylon bee article.

bad_teammate · August 19, 2021

Just now, Hook1997 said:

Is he just fucking with us now? Tripling downing on absolutely nothing could have been done better???

I don't really care about defending Biden here, per se, but this "uhhh....... ok fine it was right to leave BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE IT BETTER" is such a stupid and pointless thing to think about

All you and others are doing is playing with hypotheticals. Twenty people looking at a problem, someone actually goes in to fix it, and the 19 remaining just bitch about how the 1 should be doing a better job of it

I'm sure it could have been done better, but why do you even care? What does it matter?

jimmyjazz · August 19, 2021

The number of right wingers pearl clutching over our withdrawal from a country that (a) they couldn't have pointed to on a map a month ago and (b) is largely populated by a demographic they literally hate is hysterical.

JimmyJames · August 19, 2021

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

If there's one thing the mainstream media loves, it's American empire:

This really can’t even be seriously debated anymore. In hindsight the big TV media played a huge role in the run up to the Iraq war. As well as basically ignoring what was happening in Afghanistan for the last 15 years or so.

Somebody be mad at good old joe for finally pulling out and is trying to teach him (and others in the future) a lesson.

Longhorn_Fan68 · August 19, 2021

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

The number of right wingers pearl clutching over our withdrawal from a country that (a) they couldn't have pointed to on a map a month ago and (b) is largely populated by a demographic they literally hate is hysterical.

and also likely helped elect all the people that got us there in the first place. it's truly spectacular self-gaslighting

Hook1997 · August 19, 2021

14 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

you really bringing TMZ in here as some sort of authority on anything? that's almost as bad as linking an onion or babylon bee article.

It’s everywhere and quoted from a interview with George Stephanopoulos does it really matter where I shared it from? No this isn’t from a standpoint of disliking the guy even, I just didn’t expect such a hard stance from him when everyone knows that’s not the truth. Now from Trump I would expect a stance like that. I’m not a big fan of either but thought Joe would be more realistic than this for sure. You also have to be able to admit sometimes when your guy is wrong and not just take their side blindly. If this was someone I was a huge backer of I’d admit that he isn’t handling it correctly.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Hook1997

workswithseed · August 19, 2021

6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I don't really care about defending Biden here, per se, but this "uhhh....... ok fine it was right to leave BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE IT BETTER" is such a stupid and pointless thing to think about

All you and others are doing is playing with hypotheticals. Twenty people looking at a problem, someone actually goes in to fix it, and the 19 remaining just bitch about how the 1 should be doing a better job of it

I'm sure it could have been done better, but why do you even care? What does it matter?

At some point just leaving the people who helped us to die will bite us in the ass, but that's just the first thing that came to mind. Hell, maybe it won't and everyone will forget about this tragedy.

Longhorn_Fan68 · August 19, 2021

1 minute ago, Hook1997 said:

It’s everywhere and quoted from a interview with George Stephanopoulos does it really matter where I shared it from? No this isn’t from a standpoint of disliking the guy even, I just didn’t expect such a hard stance from him when everyone knows that’s not the truth. Now from Trump I would expect a stance like that.

fair enough. still, I see TMZ and automatically think it's bullshit, whether or not it is

TexArcher · August 19, 2021

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

The number of right wingers pearl clutching over our withdrawal from a country that (a) they couldn't have pointed to on a map a month ago and (b) is largely populated by a demographic they literally hate is hysterical.

And if a Republican president had ordered this exact same pullout, they'd be spewing things like, "We shouldn't be using our troops to keep those savages from killing each other anyway. We should have left the moment the military objective was completed. America first!"

Captainant · August 19, 2021

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

At some point just leaving the people who helped us to die will bite us in the ass, but that's just the first thing that came to mind. Hell, maybe it won't and everyone will forget about this tragedy.

huh, you were super gung-ho on BANNING ALL MUSLIMS a while back - why do you give a fuck about these muslims now?

Hook1997 · August 19, 2021

7 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

fair enough. still, I see TMZ and automatically think it's bullshit, whether or not it is

You know I use to think that way too but if you look at their rate of actually getting things wrong vs a few of the big mainstream media outlets, their record is way better. But most of it is non important shit but they fact check pretty hard evidently.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Hook1997

Js1 · August 19, 2021

9 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

and also likely helped elect all the people that got us there in the first place. it's truly spectacular self-gaslighting

They can’t admit they got duped, over and over, and America lost the War in Afghanistan over 20 years and 4 Presidents.

workswithseed · August 19, 2021

Just now, Captainant said:

huh, you were super gung-ho on BANNING ALL MUSLIMS a while back - why do you give a fuck about these muslims now?

Friends help friends out. I don't remember saying ban all Muslims, if I actually said all Muslims should be banned, then rescind my past statement.

jimmyjazz · August 19, 2021

Going by memory, Trump drew down the troops from ~ 13K to ~ 2.5K, and Biden drew down the rest. At what point would any reasonable person expect the shit to hit the fan, the first 2.5K or the last 2.5K?

Trump also agreed to the release of 5K Taliban prisoners, and accepted the promise that the government would stay in place and the Afghan National Army wouldn't fold. Neither happened, but somehow Trump bears no responsibility for making a stupid pact over something that any reasonable person should have expected to fail.

Again, I can't personally wrap my brain around the idea of "no mistakes". Mistakes happen, and what's happened this summer is surely shot through with tactical and strategic errors, but much of that was pre-defined and rolling with serious momentum. This isn't all on the Biden administration, not by a long shot.

JimmyJames · August 19, 2021

2 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Friends help friends out. I don't remember saying ban all Muslims, if I actually said all Muslims should be banned, then rescind my past statement.

What, do you have multiple personalities? Pretty sure if I said I wanted to ban all Muslims I’d remember that.

Hook1997 · August 19, 2021

32 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I don't really care about defending Biden here, per se, but this "uhhh....... ok fine it was right to leave BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE IT BETTER" is such a stupid and pointless thing to think about

All you and others are doing is playing with hypotheticals. Twenty people looking at a problem, someone actually goes in to fix it, and the 19 remaining just bitch about how the 1 should be doing a better job of it

I'm sure it could have been done better, but why do you even care? What does it matter?

It’s how he’s handling it! No one has to go out and point out or bitch about the one thing cause he keeps doing it himself by saying there was absolutely nothing we could have done better over and over again. Is that not a bit alarming? It’s a Very Trumpesque move.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Hook1997

workswithseed · August 19, 2021

5 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

What, do you have multiple personalities? Pretty sure if I said I wanted to ban all Muslims I’d remember that.

No, but I doubt that I said ban all Muslims.

wildcat09 · August 19, 2021

4 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

It’s how he’s handling it! No one has to go out and point out or bitch about the one thing cause he keeps doing it himself by saying there was absolutely nothing we could have done better over and over again. Is that not a bit alarming? It’s a Very Trumpesque move.

Trump would've thrown the generals under the bus.

JimmyJames · August 19, 2021

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

No, but I doubt that I said ban all Muslims.

Well hopefully someday you’ll figure that one out.

Im guessing you’re some college sociology class group trolling experiment. So just look in the database and search the phrase “Muslim ban.”

JimmyJames · August 19, 2021

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Trump would've thrown the generals under the bus.

Wrong. Trump would have accepted full responsibility. Just like he did with the China virus/Democratic hoax.

elfenix · August 19, 2021

43 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

You could have just linked the website you lifted this from

https://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm

you're johnny sack. you're sitting at the table, having a martini while waiting for your lunch to arrive, browsing the joe biden thread to see if you can go big mad about something, and you find a quote from elfenix about the republicans getting us into two wars of choice. and you think to yourself, "I just the know the Democrats said Saddam was a piece of shit!" and so you go to google, and search for "Democrat Saddam Hussein quotes." you find that link as the first result. and you copypasta, completely uncritically and without even glancing one line down the search results to see that it's bullshit, of course.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/words-of-mass-destruction/

Johnny Sack · August 19, 2021

9 minutes ago, elfenix said:

you're johnny sack. you're sitting at the table, having a martini while waiting for your lunch to arrive, browsing the joe biden thread to see if you can go big mad about something, and you find a quote from elfenix about the republicans getting us into two wars of choice. and you think to yourself, "I just the know the Democrats said Saddam was a piece of shit!" and so you go to google, and search for "Democrat Saddam Hussein quotes." you find that link as the first result. and you copypasta, completely uncritically and without even glancing one line down the search results to see that it's bullshit, of course.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/words-of-mass-destruction/

From your link:

"All of the quotes listed above are substantially correct reproductions of words uttered by various Democratic leaders regarding Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein’s acquisition or possession of weapons of mass destruction."

Longhorn_Fan68 · August 19, 2021

9 minutes ago, elfenix said:

you're johnny sack. you're sitting at the table, having a martini while waiting for your lunch to arrive, browsing the joe biden thread to see if you can go big mad about something, and you find a quote from elfenix about the republicans getting us into two wars of choice. and you think to yourself, "I just the know the Democrats said Saddam was a piece of shit!" and so you go to google, and search for "Democrat Saddam Hussein quotes." you find that link as the first result. and you copypasta, completely uncritically and without even glancing one line down the search results to see that it's bullshit, of course.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/words-of-mass-destruction/

nah man, don't you know snopes is libruhl hoax media!?!?

elfenix · August 19, 2021

From your link:
"All of the quotes listed above are substantially correct reproductions of words uttered by various Democratic leaders regarding Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein’s acquisition or possession of weapons of mass destruction."

Yes. They all said Saddam was a piece of shit. That's not the problem with the quotes.

You've heard of the doctrine of completeness have you not counselor?

If I say Saddam is a piece of shit while also saying that what the Bush administration is doing is foolhardy, do you think I'm really supporting the Bush administration's war in Iraq?

Do you honestly think that if Al Gore had been president there would have been a massive land invasion of Iraq in 2003?

cactusflinthead · August 19, 2021

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

From your link:

"All of the quotes listed above are substantially correct reproductions of words uttered by various Democratic leaders regarding Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein’s acquisition or possession of weapons of mass destruction."

However, as is typical of such lists, some of the quotes are truncated — and all of them are provided without context — so as to reinforce the author’s point of view even when the proffered material does not fit it. Namely, several of these quotes were

offered in the course of statements that clearly indicated the speaker was decidedly against unilateral military intervention in Iraq by the U.S. Moreover, several of the quotes offered antedate the four nights of airstrikes unleashed against Iraq by U.S. and British forces during Operation Desert Fox in December 1998, after which Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen and Gen. Henry H. Shelton (chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) announced the action had been successful in “degrad[ing] Saddam Hussein’s ability to deliver chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.”

TwiceHorn · August 19, 2021

1 hour ago, StassneyHorn said:

You could have just linked the website you lifted this from

https://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm

Small defense of Shrub, the WMD narrative about Saddam and Iraq was true at one time and had been percolating through the intelligence community for quite some time prior to its being used as a pretext for invasion.

Which is why a credulous Shrub accepted it despite evidence to the contrary. A lot of the blame lies among the Cabinet who knew better circa 2000-01. And, as evidenced by the above, pretty much everyone gobbled that shit right on down.

My Mom also theorized that he wanted to avenge the "hit" Saddam levied on Poppy back in the Kuwait days and accomplish something Poppy didn't by deposing Saddam. I think there's a lot of truth to that.

Edited August 19, 2021 by TwiceHorn

workswithseed · August 19, 2021

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Well hopefully someday you’ll figure that one out.

Im guessing you’re some college sociology class group trolling experiment. So just look in the database and search the phrase “Muslim ban.”

I'm not bothered, but you seem to be.

Walden Ponderer · August 19, 2021

Should we muddy the waters further by pointing ou Bush Sr's role as CIA Director in the 70s in getting Saddam in power in the first place?

Bottom line, we've bet on the wrong horse so often, we'd be better at the glue factory than the racetrack.

Bojack · August 19, 2021

I can't remember the last time I heard a current, self-identifying Republican admit that they supported the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. I'm what most of you, especially the DTs clowns, would consider far left. I know that the Democrats have our share of war mongers and political weather vanes that bought in for the sake of their own political futures, so I'm not trying to excuse the likes of Biden and Hilary. I'm especially sick of some of some of you assholes that lie like you breathe acting like you were opposed to these quagmires from the start. The people that voted for Bush twice, voted for Trump twice, all the Tucker and Rush fans were exactly the people that were calling anyone against the wars a traitor. Those of us that really were opposed at the start didn't hate the troops. We didn't want them to die, to lose limbs, and have PTSD.

Next time, all you bitches remember that it's always a quagmire. They're always lying about the real reason. You'll create enemies faster than you can kill them. Civilians will die. There's no bigger waste of resources.

bad_teammate · August 19, 2021

8 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Should we muddy the waters further by pointing ou Bush Sr's role as CIA Director in the 70s in getting Saddam in power in the first place?

Bottom line, we've bet on the wrong horse so often, we'd be better at the glue factory than the racetrack.

Texaspython · August 19, 2021

56 minutes ago, elfenix said:

Yes. They all said Saddam was a piece of shit. That's not the problem with the quotes.

You've heard of the doctrine of completeness have you not counselor?

If I say Saddam is a piece of shit while also saying that what the Bush administration is doing is foolhardy, do you think I'm really supporting the Bush administration's war in Iraq?

Do you honestly think that if Al Gore had been president there would have been a massive land invasion of Iraq in 2003?

No way he’s a lawyer. He still thinks UT can’t be sued by the Big 12 because of sovereign immunity. Seriously, he big dumb.

Satchel · August 19, 2021

4 hours ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

Yeah. I said to my wife that someone graduates from Yale Harvard Columbia and Stanford number 1 every year. Where are these people? How did the bench get so short?

Yeah, the reputations of those schools have taken quite a beating since they made up a good portion of the Trump brain trust in Congress and in the White House.

DonkeyCigars · August 19, 2021

25 minutes ago, Bojack said:

I can't remember the last time I heard a current, self-identifying Republican admit that they supported the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. I'm what most of you, especially the DTs clowns, would consider far left. I know that the Democrats have our share of war mongers and political weather vanes that bought in for the sake of their own political futures, so I'm not trying to excuse the likes of Biden and Hilary. I'm especially sick of some of some of you assholes that lie like you breathe acting like you were opposed to these quagmires from the start. The people that voted for Bush twice, voted for Trump twice, all the Tucker and Rush fans were exactly the people that were calling anyone against the wars a traitor. Those of us that really were opposed at the start didn't hate the troops. We didn't want them to die, to lose limbs, and have PTSD.

Next time, all you bitches remember that it's always a quagmire. They're always lying about the real reason. You'll create enemies faster than you can kill them. Civilians will die. There's no bigger waste of resources.

Registered Republican here admitting I was big time for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan at the time.

There. Bucket list item checked off for you, friend.

JimmyJames · August 19, 2021

I initially supported the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan because I was a Republican, was a dumbass, and was lied to.

When I first heard that there were no WMDs in Iraq, I knew the significance of that. And while I didn’t become a dem overnight, that was the crystal clear moment in my life when I started to slowly realize how much of a dumbass I really was and how big the lies really were. Mainly being told by Republicans. When the economy collapsed in 2008, my transformation into a dem voter was pretty much complete. Trump sealed the deal.

mchookem · August 19, 2021

7 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Basically never.

Also, Hillary was right about the vast right-wing conspiracy.

turns out she was right about a lot of things 😐

Longhorn_Fan68 · August 19, 2021

1 minute ago, JimmyJames said:

I initially supported the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan because I was a Republican, was a dumbass, and was lied to.

When I first heard that there were no WMDs in Iraq, I knew the significance of that. And while I didn’t become a dem overnight, that was the crystal clear moment in my life when I started to slowly realize how much of a dumbass I really was and how big the lies really were. Mainly being told by Republicans. When the economy collapsed in 2008, my transformation into a dem voter was pretty much complete. Trump sealed the deal.

Are you me? Am i your sock? I feel like i could have written that verbatim

JimmyJames · August 19, 2021

5 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

From your link:

"All of the quotes listed above are substantially correct reproductions of words uttered by various Democratic leaders regarding Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein’s acquisition or possession of weapons of mass destruction."

How can a “quote,” be a “substantially correct reproduction of words?”

Brisketexan · August 19, 2021

9 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I initially supported the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan because I was a Republican, was a dumbass, and was lied to.

When I first heard that there were no WMDs in Iraq, I knew the significance of that. And while I didn’t become a dem overnight, that was the crystal clear moment in my life when I started to slowly realize how much of a dumbass I really was and how big the lies really were. Mainly being told by Republicans. When the economy collapsed in 2008, my transformation into a dem voter was pretty much complete. Trump sealed the deal.

This.

I'm not surprised that I was a sucker and naive -- even for all the study, reading, and knowledge of history I had behind me. What I'm surprised is that I continued to be a naive sucker to the age I was when we invaded Iraq. Being dumb is human. Staying dumb for longer than you should have is just embarrassing.

I was off the GQP train well before Trump -- I saw the insanity and racism embedded in the Obama hatred (even though I thought all along, and still do, that Obama was underqualified, in over his head, and a thoroughly mediocre president. I just naively wanted to be able to criticize him for ordinary stuff like that, but criticizing him put me on the same side of the table with insane birther bullshit, and that was fucking nuttery), and that sealed the deal for me. Well, and what I saw going on in Texas -- the utter destructiveness of the GQP here was having real-world impacts on people and things I care about. And it was counter-productive, asinine, and contrary to many of the values I had long held (some of which had long been key "Republican" values).

I was wrong for a long time. But....

mchookem · August 19, 2021

here's the Stephanapolous transcript:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/full-transcript-abc-news-george-stephanopoulos-interview-president/story?id=79535643

relevant quote to above discussion:

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you don't think this could've been handled, this exit could've been handled better in any way? No mistakes?

BIDEN: No. I-- I don't think it could've been handled in a way that there-- we-- we're gonna go back in hindsight and look, but the idea that somehow there's a way to have gotten out without chaos ensuing, I don't know how that happens. I don't know how that happened.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So for you, that was always priced into the decision?

BIDEN: Yes. Now, exactly what happened-- is not priced in. But I knew that they're gonna have an enormous, enorm-- look, one of the things we didn't know is what the Taliban would do in terms of trying to keep people from getting out, what they would do.What are they doing now? They're cooperating, letting American citizens get out, American personnel get out, embassies get out, et cetera. But they're having-- we're having some more difficulty in having those who helped us when we were in there--

yeah, he was much better a couple of days ago with the 'buck stops here' position. someone should tell him at this point it's okay to say 'yeah, we didn't anticipate X and could have planned that part better' b/c overall most folks are behind the decision in general. not a great look.

it's still a far cry from 'no i don't take any responsibility at all' 😒

JimmyJames · August 19, 2021

4 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Registered Republican here admitting I was big time for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan at the time.

There. Bucket list item checked off for you, friend.

So you were a dumbass then and you are still a dumbass now.

Maybe you should instead try to learn from your mistakes.

Ah who am I kidding. You’re just a fucking troll. Troll away.

Edited August 19, 2021 by JimmyJames

mulletpelini · August 20, 2021

19 minutes ago, mchookem said:

here's the Stephanapolous transcript:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/full-transcript-abc-news-george-stephanopoulos-interview-president/story?id=79535643

STEPHANOPOULOS: But we've all seen the pictures. We've seen those hundreds of people packed into a C-17. You've seen Afghans falling--

BIDEN: That was four days ago, five days ago.

Narrator: It was actually two.

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